D&D Next

[Zarathud]

Interesting but I'll be happy to keep playing Storm King in D&D Adventures. Not willing to waste months of character play to the arbitrary perma-death of Tomb of Horrors.

[Blackhawk]

And Dead in Thay is supposed to be fantastic. I've never played it, but I've heard great things.

Oh, and someone gave me a copy of Cloud Giant's Bargain as a Christmas gift. That's the one that was only available through the PAX theater streaming event.

[hentzau]

And Dead in Thay is supposed to be fantastic. I've never played it, but I've heard great things.

Oh, and someone gave me a copy of Cloud Giant's Bargain as a Christmas gift. That's the one that was only available through the PAX theater streaming event.

Yeah, I have a spare copy of that one too. Took my daughter to see the live show, and she has no need for her copy.

[Hyena]

*sigh*

Every time I browse through these threads I get melancholy for the days of yore, when I had people to play D&D with. I've recently tried to get a game started with another gaming buddy of mine, but the other people we've tried to bring in didn't want to play that, but they had an interest in the Marvel Superheroes game from the early 80's. We've all made characters, but haven't gotten the chance to start up yet. It'll be fun, but there's just something about rolling up a 1st level D&D character, looking through the player's guide for supplies, and taking your first sip of imaginary ale at the corner table of the Toothless Dragon Inn...

[NickAragua]

*sigh*

Every time I browse through these threads I get melancholy for the days of yore, when I had people to play D&D with. I've recently tried to get a game started with another gaming buddy of mine, but the other people we've tried to bring in didn't want to play that, but they had an interest in the Marvel Superheroes game from the early 80's. We've all made characters, but haven't gotten the chance to start up yet. It'll be fun, but there's just something about rolling up a 1st level D&D character, looking through the player's guide for supplies, and taking your first sip of imaginary ale at the corner table of the Toothless Dragon Inn...

Yeah, I hear that.

[hentzau]

*sigh*

Every time I browse through these threads I get melancholy for the days of yore, when I had people to play D&D with. I've recently tried to get a game started with another gaming buddy of mine, but the other people we've tried to bring in didn't want to play that, but they had an interest in the Marvel Superheroes game from the early 80's. We've all made characters, but haven't gotten the chance to start up yet. It'll be fun, but there's just something about rolling up a 1st level D&D character, looking through the player's guide for supplies, and taking your first sip of imaginary ale at the corner table of the Toothless Dragon Inn...

Yeah, I hear that.

I'm experiencing that from the other end, with watching my kids experience their first real campaign. It's been a blast.

[Hyena]

*sigh*

Every time I browse through these threads I get melancholy for the days of yore, when I had people to play D&D with. I've recently tried to get a game started with another gaming buddy of mine, but the other people we've tried to bring in didn't want to play that, but they had an interest in the Marvel Superheroes game from the early 80's. We've all made characters, but haven't gotten the chance to start up yet. It'll be fun, but there's just something about rolling up a 1st level D&D character, looking through the player's guide for supplies, and taking your first sip of imaginary ale at the corner table of the Toothless Dragon Inn...

Yeah, I hear that.

I'm experiencing that from the other end, with watching my kids experience their first real campaign. It's been a blast.

That's awesome! How old are they if you don't mind me asking?

[IceBear]

I gave my son my first edition copy of Descent when I bought the 2nd Edition. He took it when he was 4 and built a dungeon with monsters and treasure for his heroes to explore without any guidance from me. My heart swelled with pride.

When he was 5 I ran him through one of the adventures from the copy of No Thank You Evil I kickstarted. He played through it even remembering details from the beginning of the adventure in the final encounter. He sort of played / GMed. Will run him through some of the add on adventures soon.

Tonight we are missing some regulars so Shadowrun and Savage Rifts is off the table so I will be running Dungeon World as other than writing down 3 questions to ask the players no prep needs to be done...which is great for last minute games

[hentzau]

*sigh*

Every time I browse through these threads I get melancholy for the days of yore, when I had people to play D&D with. I've recently tried to get a game started with another gaming buddy of mine, but the other people we've tried to bring in didn't want to play that, but they had an interest in the Marvel Superheroes game from the early 80's. We've all made characters, but haven't gotten the chance to start up yet. It'll be fun, but there's just something about rolling up a 1st level D&D character, looking through the player's guide for supplies, and taking your first sip of imaginary ale at the corner table of the Toothless Dragon Inn...

Yeah, I hear that.

I'm experiencing that from the other end, with watching my kids experience their first real campaign. It's been a blast.

That's awesome! How old are they if you don't mind me asking?

So I'm running the Storm's King Thunder adventure (which is awesome, BTW) with my 17 year old daughter, 2 of her girlfriends (about the same age) and my 14 year old son. I've been doing one off adventures with my kids for the past several years, but this is the first time they've started to really get invested in their characters. My daughter ended up being the wizard because they needed one, but she wasn't really that thrilled with the idea. But when she hit 3rd level, I trotted out the Sword Coast Adventurers Guide and showed her the Bladesinger specialization, and suddenly the character clicked for her.

[Blackhawk]

It's been a year since I last ran a 5e game, and my burnout is gone, aided by some time just getting to be a player. It looks like I'll be starting to run Storm King's Thunder in the near future. I've heard good things about it so far, so I'm actually looking forward to it.

Time to study up and start taking notes!

[hentzau]

It's been a year since I last ran a 5e game, and my burnout is gone, aided by some time just getting to be a player. It looks like I'll be starting to run Storm King's Thunder in the near future. I've heard good things about it so far, so I'm actually looking forward to it.

Time to study up and start taking notes!

Love SKT. I'm running my kids and two of their friends through it right now. It's a great, great adventure. And a great resource for the Forgotten Realms as well.

[Blackhawk]

It looks like it will be fun, especially after PITA. Sorry, POTA.

I'd really like to run Warhammer FRP 2nd Edition (I've been on a Warhammer kick), but the core rulebook is selling for $50 used. I've been thinking about setting up a Savage Worlds conversion.

[IceBear]

If you like Warhammer Fantasy you should checkout Shadow of the Demon Lord. I haven't played Warhammer Fantasy but I hear a lot of people compare them favorably. Plus, how often do you get to play a game where you can literally cause someone to shit themselves to death

HATEFUL DEFECATION FORBIDDEN ATTACK 1
Target One living creature with a physical body within medium range
The target’s guts twist and rumble noisily. If the target’s Health is 10 or less, it dies instantly, streams of blood and feces gushing from all of its orifices. If its Health is higher than 10, make an Intellect attack roll against the target’s Strength.
On a success, the target takes 1d6 + 2 damage and becomes dazed for 1 round, as its guts violently and spectacularly expel their contents. If this damage incapacitates the target, excrement, organs, and blood explode from its body, which instantly brings about its death. Each creature within 2 yards of a point in the target’s space must make a Will challenge roll; on a failure, it becomes impaired for 1 round. Attack Roll 20+ The target takes 1d6 extra damage.

BTW...that's a Forbidden spell so going down that path of magic leads to Corruption so it's not something that would be seen a lot.

[Zenn7]

So we finally get back together for session 2 (first one was on New Years, yes, we all forgot what happened, where we were, the rules...). Get a new player join the crowd (we've played w/ him in previous versions, just he wasn't with us for our first 5e day). He takes a premade fighter. 2 fighters, yay meatshields!

We start by getting to level 2. Having determined we at rolling HP, ha, watch me roll a 1! Roll... 1. I didn't want a lot of HP on my rogue anyway...

Get my hand xbow though (DM was a little overly generous in letting us sell the weapons from the goblins we whacked before getting to town). I'm not complaining. Slice shoot. Next round, disengage/move away, put rapier away while moving, load/shoot xbow. Move up, loading xbow, drawing rapier, swing/shoot. It's one way to go anyway.

We try gathering more info in town about their local problem, spend the whole day doing it, no real success. We each get a room at the hotel where we meet our new party member (the Ranger finds someplace outside to sleep).

My Rogue's background is criminal, specialty hired killer. So I had the thought I'd contact the DM after the last game and work out that I got a job in the starting town to kill someone in this town. But we took so long to meet up again, never reached out to him. As we are settling down for the evening, I let him know I'm going for a stroll to meet my contact. So he can tell me who my target is. Blew his mind... "Did we discuss this and I forgot?" No. After we discuss for a couple minutes (players are there, but no characters are around to find out what's up in game), I was figuring either a minor nobody or maybe someone in a group we needed to engage (opportunities to encourage us to move along or go in a specific direction, or just a background note that some nobody is dead in the morning or something). But he's trying to figure out what NPC would make a good contact and work out more details. This is getting a bit more time consuming than intended and I suggest dropping it for now as I don't want to eat up too much time where we are ignoring the rest of the party. He quickly decides my target... the new person who joined the party.

How can this possibly go wrong when one party member has a contract job to kill another party member?

Totally not what I had in mind and totally the sort of thing he would do. We hope to meet in August but who knows when (if) we will play more. If we do, I'll let you know how it goes.

[Zenn7]

We got together again today. So far, have not killed the other guy.

Before boring you with the details, a question -

In all previous editions of D&D - rogues find traps. It's one of their core features. Either they are the only ones who can find traps or they get substantial bonuses to looking. In 5th ed. - the only potential bonus they get is they could Perception as one of their Expertise skills. No other bonuses, and perception being Wisdom based - Wisdom is a lower priority stat for Rogues (Dex, Int, Chr). At least in previous editions, search was in Int based - and rogues favor Int.

Am I missing something or do rogues really have no advantage in finding traps?

Spoilers ahead on the module:

*
*
*

After much time in town trying to see if we could get more details about what we were up against, we finally gave up and started out.

We approached the manor, quickly realized it was abandoned and searched around, found the cellars underneath.

We had 2 guys escape. There were 4 guys in the barracks/store room - they came out, we were wearing cloaks, the DM said they put their weapons away and welcomed us as new recruits. We took advantage and attacked (literally - we had advantage for the first round). We killed 2, they got to go and retreated to their room, barricaded it with barrels (DM decided they could do this in one round - we disagreed but did not want to bog the game down figuring it out). Couple of us wanted to beat the door down and take them out but somehow it was decided it would be too difficult with the barrels barricading the door.

Got to the room with 3 skeletons and the scarcoghigus's, our warlock eldritch blasted one of the skeletons from the other side of the room. As the warlock did not get close to the skeletons, they did not awaken until we decided to smash them so we could get to the doors easier. The last 2 woke up and we smashed them without taking any hits. Took out the 2 guards in the next room. Place was cleared. We almost left w/o finding the secret door. DM decided we were about to leave w/o finding it and had us find it on our passive perception. Then, we killed the nothi (whatever it was in the cave). DM said he told us "fresh meat" - one of our normally more homicidal crew decided he could be a friend. I was delaying, waiting for someone to engage in melee so I could shoot him w/ my hand xbow and get sneak damage (I'm a rogue). The ranger continued not to fight, but we won. DM had advised us that this was not necessarily a situation we'd have to kill him (we're a fairly hack&slash group), but me and the person who finally engaged in melee decided our characters would take the "fresh meat" as a plan to eat us. Even if we didn't kill it now, we would have to worry about it later.

That was as far as we got tonight.

[Blackhawk]

We got together again today. So far, have not killed the other guy.

Before boring you with the details, a question -

In all previous editions of D&D - rogues find traps. It's one of their core features. Either they are the only ones who can find traps or they get substantial bonuses to looking. In 5th ed. - the only potential bonus they get is they could Perception as one of their Expertise skills. No other bonuses, and perception being Wisdom based - Wisdom is a lower priority stat for Rogues (Dex, Int, Chr). At least in previous editions, search was in Int based - and rogues favor Int.

Am I missing something or do rogues really have no advantage in finding traps?

It's still there, but it is hidden, and it gives you the option of playing different kinds of rogues. The classic 'sneaky thief' is going to take the Thief archetype. They're going to have their Expertise in (eventually) Thieves Tools, Perception, and Investigation (plus one other, probably Sneak.) Now, add in the level 11 Rogue skill Reliable Talent that lets you treat anything under a 9 as a 10.

At 11th level, a thief with a moderate Wisdom and Intelligence score (10 for one, 12 for the other) will have a +8 perception bonus plus a +1/0 stat bonus. That gives a +9 with a minimum roll of 19. A Cleric with proficiency in Perception and a 20 Wisdom will also have a +9, but with no minimum roll. After that, the Rogue's keeps going up. The Cleric's does not.

Now, notice that Investigation. This is one thing that a lot of DMs miss. Perception is not the only way to find a trap (or a secret door.) Some are Perception, some are Investigation. If it is simply seeing something off (loose tile in the floor = pressure plate), that's Perception. If it is figuring something out (extra gears in the lock = poison needle), then that's Investigation.

Disarming uses your Theives' Tools bonus with Dex most of the time, which means that you will eventually get up to a +15 with a minimum roll of 25.

Oh, and disarming magical traps is now Arcana.

So by the time you'd have those crazy bonuses in previous editions, you'll have them here. The rogue was always a skill monkey, and he still is. He just has the option of being other types of skill monkeys now. Put those bonuses into Persuasion, Deception, History, and (whatever), choose Assassin or Thief and you have a great spy/party face that isn't sacrificing half of his balance options by being forced into a 'thief' mold that doesn't fit his concept.

[Blackhawk]

Oh, and a Thief rogue with Sneak: +5 Dex, +5 Proficiency, Expertise. +15. Minimum roll of 25, and that's with advantage if you're going slow.

[Zenn7]

We got together again today. So far, have not killed the other guy.

Before boring you with the details, a question -

In all previous editions of D&D - rogues find traps. It's one of their core features. Either they are the only ones who can find traps or they get substantial bonuses to looking. In 5th ed. - the only potential bonus they get is they could Perception as one of their Expertise skills. No other bonuses, and perception being Wisdom based - Wisdom is a lower priority stat for Rogues (Dex, Int, Chr). At least in previous editions, search was in Int based - and rogues favor Int.

Am I missing something or do rogues really have no advantage in finding traps?

It's still there, but it is hidden, and it gives you the option of playing different kinds of rogues. The classic 'sneaky thief' is going to take the Thief archetype. They're going to have their Expertise in (eventually) Thieves Tools, Perception, and Investigation (plus one other, probably Sneak.) Now, add in the level 11 Rogue skill Reliable Talent that lets you treat anything under a 9 as a 10.

At 11th level, a thief with a moderate Wisdom and Intelligence score (10 for one, 12 for the other) will have a +8 perception bonus plus a +1/0 stat bonus. That gives a +9 with a minimum roll of 19. A Cleric with proficiency in Perception and a 20 Wisdom will also have a +9, but with no minimum roll. After that, the Rogue's keeps going up. The Cleric's does not.

Now, notice that Investigation. This is one thing that a lot of DMs miss. Perception is not the only way to find a trap (or a secret door.) Some are Perception, some are Investigation. If it is simply seeing something off (loose tile in the floor = pressure plate), that's Perception. If it is figuring something out (extra gears in the lock = poison needle), then that's Investigation.

Disarming uses your Theives' Tools bonus with Dex most of the time, which means that you will eventually get up to a +15 with a minimum roll of 25.

Oh, and disarming magical traps is now Arcana.

So by the time you'd have those crazy bonuses in previous editions, you'll have them here. The rogue was always a skill monkey, and he still is. He just has the option of being other types of skill monkeys now. Put those bonuses into Persuasion, Deception, History, and (whatever), choose Assassin or Thief and you have a great spy/party face that isn't sacrificing half of his balance options by being forced into a 'thief' mold that doesn't fit his concept.

Thanks BH.

I kind of wondered about investigation. So if we want to search for traps, we really need someone to do perception and someone to do investigation (pretty sure I'm good/best at that one in our party).

For reference, I took sneak and thieves tools for my L1 expertise. 8 Wisdom, 15 Int. Proficient with Perception and Investigation. Only L2 at the moment. So I will eventually be good, but for perception based trap checking, it's going to be a while.

Planning on taking Arcane Trickster rather than Thieve/Assassin. Thought the illusions and enchantments would give me more chances to get advantage/sneak attacks in fights and in distracting targets (background: criminal - hired killer, I have contracts to fulfill...). If we were in a more urban setting and/or by myself, assassin might work better. This guy's a killer more so than a thief, so thief is out.

[Blackhawk]

Investigation vs Perception throws a lot of people off. A surprising number skip Investigation entirely because they don't understand its purpose.

Perception is what it has always been - noticing things with your five senses.

Investigation is what old school D&D players would have used a straight Intelligence roll for - to figure something out. It is noticing with logic and ration rather than senses.

The problem is, since a lot of DMs don't get that, it isn't always useful. If DMs don't call for Investigation checks because they don't understand Investigation, it becomes useless. And no offense to your DM, but him giving up and finally letting you find the secret door with Passive Perception suggests that he probably doesn't understand Investigation (finding secret doors is one of the things PP is there for - so you don't have five people making five Perception checks in every single room.)

[hentzau]

My son went with Arcane Trickster for his Tiefling Rogue, and he's rocking the combo. He is taking almost all utility spells, things that enhance his movement and jump abilities, except for one...Hex. Combine Hex with his normal backstab abilities, and he's a damage machine. I'm actually quite proud of him going this route and figuring out useful combos of spells.

[Zenn7]

My son went with Arcane Trickster for his Tiefling Rogue, and he's rocking the combo. He is taking almost all utility spells, things that enhance his movement and jump abilities, except for one...Hex. Combine Hex with his normal backstab abilities, and he's a damage machine. I'm actually quite proud of him going this route and figuring out useful combos of spells.

Hex is a Warlock spell, not wizard and only one of the first level spells you can choose at 3rd level can be something other than illusion or enchantment. Don't want to ruin your fun, but unless you are using house rules, your son may have chosen some illegal build options?

[Blackhawk]

Or he took a feat to allow it.

[Zenn7]

Or he took a feat to allow it.

Magic Initiate? 2 cantrips and 1 first level spell (useable only once). Possible, but just from the description "He is taking almost all utility spells, things that enhance his movement and jump abilities", seems unlikely (not much in illusion/enchantment that would qualify for those).

Part of me was pointing it out in case he missed something, part of me was curious/asking in case I'm missing something. After all, I'm looking to go this way, no reason not to borrow his son's good ideas if they're legal in a straight book campaign.

Personally, I was thinking the illusions would be good distractions to help with hiding and/or getting advantage attacks.

[hentzau]

Yeah, we discussed it when he was looking at Arcane Trickster. With his Tiefling race and having Hellish Rebuke anyway, I decided Hex worked well for the character background, so I gave it to him. But now that you bring it up, the movement spells he took do not match up with the other rules, I missed this when we built him out. I'll have to decide if I want to remove them from him, or just correct going forward. I may just let it go, it's working well with his character and doesn't appear to be breaking things too badly.

[Zenn7]

I could see it as a different arch-type that would make great sense. Instead of Arcane Trickster, some sort of Arcane athletic/acrobatic thief. The trickster uses magic to emphasize the deceptive nature of the rogue, this one would use magic to emphasize the physical traits rogues are known for (dexterous, acrobatic, climbing kinda stuff).

Then you might even be open to making it more suitable for his needs in the some of the later abilities. Maybe instead of Mage Hand there might be a more suitable cantrip he can use in special ways (nothing readily leaps to mind, just throwing out some general ideas).

[Blackhawk]

Although the change to hex sounds more like a minor Tiefling variant, which are handled in detail in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.

[Zenn7]

Although the change to hex sounds more like a minor Tiefling variant, which are handled in detail in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.

I was thinking of the other spells where he wanted to take movement/jump spells. The hex thing doesn't fit with that, but it makes sense as a house rule or minor Tiefling variant in the way described.

[Zarathud]

So many uses for a Burgler with Misty Step. Makes for nasty hobbitses.

[Smoove_B]

D&D Beyond officially released today

At launch, D&D Beyond offers a compendium with all the game rules, lore, and adventures, as well as sought-after tools like a character builder and an interactive digital character sheet. It’s built with official D&D content and the ability to create and add your own custom homebrew spells, magic items, and monsters. Groups can play with digital versions of every official D&D sourcebook within the compendium. They can build characters using all the material published by Dungeons & Dragons for fifth edition, while adding custom magic items or spells created using the homebrew system. That homebrew content can then be shared with the community for other players to use in their own games.

[Zarathud]

Hopefully the app is better than the last time around.

[hentzau]

Hopefully the app is better than the last time around.

The last time around for this app, or the 4E character builder? Cause if you're dissing on the 4E Character Builder, you'se crazy.

[hentzau]

So, the Beyond character builder...looks like it's missing a bunch of character options. Is that just because I'm using the free subscription version? I've looked but can't find an answer.

[hentzau]

So, the Beyond character builder...looks like it's missing a bunch of character options. Is that just because I'm using the free subscription version? I've looked but can't find an answer.

Well, found my answer. And frankly, very disappointed. So (and I guess I shouldn't be surprised by this) in addition to having to purchase a subscription to D&D Beyond if you want to have more than six characters and a limited subset of information you can pull from, you also need to purchase (or, in my case, re-purchase) all of the individual sourcebooks. So, if you want more than a Wizard Evoker, guess what? Cough up $20 for the Players Handbook! Happen to have a Bladedancer in your group? You're going to need to purchase Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide for $30!

As stated, disappointed.

[Redfive]

Seriously? Ugh, I thought you could just pay the sub and get access to everything. Much less excited now.

[Blackhawk]

Nope. That would require WotC not being out of touch with the way technology and gaming mix. I've never seen any hint of that happening.

[IceBear]

Given how prior to Beyond they were letting Fantasy Grounds essentially do everything Beyond does I'm guessing legally they couldn't offer all the material for free or a major discount.

Honestly, given that I few months before they announced Beyond they made some sort of partnership with Roll20 I was confused with why they felt a need to produce their own online suite.

But as mentioned, if it's an electronic suite from WotC the odds are it won’t be great.

Wish they would at least give book owners (not sure how they'd prove it) a discount on the subscriptions

[Holman]

5th edition D&D rules question:

Am I right in seeing that weapon restrictions on classes are no more?

In the old-school days, and magic-user simply couldn't use a sword. Nowadays, though, weapon usage is governed by proficiency, and an Elven magic-user will have proficiency with short and long swords due to his race, right? Likewise, a Dwarf cleric could use a battleaxe unless the DM declares that his deity forbids it?

[Blackhawk]

Correct. Proficiency becomes more significant later in the game.

Note that this all applies to armor, too, although you can't cast spells if you have armor on you're unproficient with. If a mage gets proficiency with it, there is no restriction that prevents a mage from magery in heavy armor.

[Zenn7]

We got to play again today. Finished the hideout for the people bothering the town. Hit 3rd level.

I'm a rogue, leaning toward assassin. The 3rd level ability is awesome, but the 9th level is not too exciting for dungeon crawling (we're much more hack&slash, doing some roleplaying, but definitely nothing where I'd really be able to use the 9th/13th level abilities for assassin).

Which makes me think Arcane Trickster would be more fun and practical.

Any good pointers for poison in 5th edition? If I go assassin, wondering how that all works.

[Blackhawk]

I'm a rogue, leaning toward assassin. The 3rd level ability is awesome, but the 9th level is not too exciting for dungeon crawling (we're much more hack&slash, doing some roleplaying, but definitely nothing where I'd really be able to use the 9th/13th level abilities for assassin).

Which makes me think Arcane Trickster would be more fun and practical.

The 13th can always be useful, but you have to put in effort to make it work. Getting a sample of a boss's handwriting can make it really useful in a dungeon crawl when you forge a document identifying you as an ally and branding the boss's lieutenant as a traitor. You just have to wait outside and sweep up the loot at the end.

Any good pointers for poison in 5th edition? If I go assassin, wondering how that all works.

Poison was implemented very, very weakly in 5e. It isn't all that powerful, and it is prohibitively expensive for the limited effect it gives you. If the DM has the DMG there are a few more options, but the cheapest injury poison it lists is still 150 gold for a single dose that lasts for one minute on a weapon. If you just have the PHB, you're limited to the basic poison that does an extra d4 for one minute. And that is only after they fail a fairly low Con save (which many, many enemies are strong in), and poison is the most common immunity in the Monster Manual by more than double the #2 damage type. And that's for 100 gold. You'd be paying that for an extra d4 two or three times per combat, assuming there is no immunity. By the time you can blow 100 gold for three extra d4s in one combat, the extra damage won't make that much of a difference. If you have downtime, you can get one dose of the basic poison every 20 days for half price.

A lot of it depends on how much the DM is willing to work with you on creating some usable options.