The Confederate Flag Thread

[Defiant]

Trump Blasts Critics Who Judge Neo-Nazi Groups By Most Extreme Members pic.twitter.com/twAkBRtubO

— The Onion (@TheOnion) August 15, 2017

The Onion is just going with straight news, I guess?

[Max Peck]

OtOH, tweets to take the focus off my rising blood pressure

http://www.politicususa.com/2017/08/16/ ... acism.html

This one, in particular, is probably going to raise Trump's blood pressure if he sees it:

https://twitter.com/GenDaveGoldfein/sta ... 7727577089

I stand with my fellow service chiefs in saying that we're always stronger together. It's who we are as Airmen. Integrity, service and excellence... that's what America's Air Force is about.

Stronger together. In an administration that's constantly blowing dog-whistles, that could be taken as a call-out to Hillary Clinton's campaign slogan (although I strongly doubt that it was an intentional reference).

[hentzau]

I was down visiting my folks for a few days and came SO close to making it out without my dad bringing up politics. But about 15 minutes before I left, he started complaining about the association of the Confederate flag with slavery. He's one of those people that always make the argument that the civil war was not about slavery. Normally I walk away from these arguments, but this time I chose not to, and argued against him.

In the end, we ended up agreeing to disagree, but it made me sad that a man whom I love deeply, and who claims up and down to not be racist can't get see how these images hurt other people.

[Combustible Lemur]

I was down visiting my folks for a few days and came SO close to making it out without my dad bringing up politics. But about 15 minutes before I left, he started complaining about the association of the Confederate flag with slavery. He's one of those people that always make the argument that the civil war was not about slavery. Normally I walk away from these arguments, but this time I chose not to, and argued against him.

In the end, we ended up agreeing to disagree, but it made me sad that a man whom I love deeply, and who claims up and down to not be racist can't get see how these images hurt other people.

Honest question, did you show him the literal quote from Jefferson Davis denoting Slavery as the primary reason for the war?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[hentzau]

I was down visiting my folks for a few days and came SO close to making it out without my dad bringing up politics. But about 15 minutes before I left, he started complaining about the association of the Confederate flag with slavery. He's one of those people that always make the argument that the civil war was not about slavery. Normally I walk away from these arguments, but this time I chose not to, and argued against him.

In the end, we ended up agreeing to disagree, but it made me sad that a man whom I love deeply, and who claims up and down to not be racist can't get see how these images hurt other people.

Honest question, did you show him the literal quote from Jefferson Davis denoting Slavery as the primary reason for the war?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

I didn't. I really should have prepared for the conversation, but I was really hoping that we could have avoided the conversation. I was so close!

[hitbyambulance]

I was down visiting my folks for a few days and came SO close to making it out without my dad bringing up politics. But about 15 minutes before I left, he started complaining about the association of the Confederate flag with slavery. He's one of those people that always make the argument that the civil war was not about slavery. Normally I walk away from these arguments, but this time I chose not to, and argued against him.

In the end, we ended up agreeing to disagree, but it made me sad that a man whom I love deeply, and who claims up and down to not be racist can't get see how these images hurt other people.

Honest question, did you show him the literal quote from Jefferson Davis denoting Slavery as the primary reason for the war?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

I didn't. I really should have prepared for the conversation, but I was really hoping that we could have avoided the conversation. I was so close!

but how do you know Jefferson Davis said that?

were you there?

[Combustible Lemur]

I was down visiting my folks for a few days and came SO close to making it out without my dad bringing up politics. But about 15 minutes before I left, he started complaining about the association of the Confederate flag with slavery. He's one of those people that always make the argument that the civil war was not about slavery. Normally I walk away from these arguments, but this time I chose not to, and argued against him.

In the end, we ended up agreeing to disagree, but it made me sad that a man whom I love deeply, and who claims up and down to not be racist can't get see how these images hurt other people.

Honest question, did you show him the literal quote from Jefferson Davis denoting Slavery as the primary reason for the war?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

I didn't. I really should have prepared for the conversation, but I was really hoping that we could have avoided the conversation. I was so close!

but how do you know Jefferson Davis said that?

were you there?

Twice, the mushrooms help me time travel.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[Rip]

Let the old statue destroying begin.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Ab ... 97443.html

[Moliere]

"We were alerted that white supremacist Chris Cantwell was on OkCupid. Within 10 minutes we banned him for life."

[Freyland]

"We were alerted that white supremacist Chris Cantwell was on OkCupid. Within 10 minutes we banned him for life."

"SWS seeks like companion, likes long torch-lit walks..."

[em2nought]

It seems like the only way to defuse this peacefully is going to be for Trump to fall on his sword. I think he really wanted to improve the lives of "all" Americans regardless of race or color. It just makes me sad, but I don't want to see people dying, and I don't support anything but just "Nationalism" of one unified USA people of all makes and models. I definitely don't understand/support being Nazi, but I don't understand being Antifa either. I think if we destroy our history, good or bad, we'll understand ourselves, and each other, even less. I can live without rebel statues and flags if people feel they are hurtful, but please, please, please don't replace it with some modern art. I hope once that is done, and we can go back to getting along, we don't have to start erasing the founding fathers and our own current flag next, I couldn't agree with that.

It just seems a shame to hand the country back to the career politicians, and I think we're headed for eventual total financial disaster under their leadership, but I hope I'm wrong about that too.

[Rip]

I think they should rename New York. Who wants to live in a city named after a slave trader?

[YellowKing]

It's not like the push to get rid of monuments/Confederate flags appeared out of thin air. They were both a result of white supremacist actions. In the flag case, it was Dylan Roof's murderous rampage. And monuments around the country weren't coming down until a bunch of white supremacists decided to make a big deal of it in Charlottesville.

Take away the fascists, you don't have an Antifa movement.

[em2nought]

If Trump does go I think it will be the first successful subversion of our government, not sure how to feel about that, and I don't quite feel the game is fair and balanced anymore. It will be a sad day, even if it leads to better days.

[em2nought]

And monuments around the country weren't coming down until a bunch of white supremacists decided to make a big deal of it in Charlottesville.

Take away the fascists, you don't have an Antifa movement.

Your first statement isn't true, but the second one might be.

[YellowKing]

Monuments may have been coming down here and there, but it wasn't a wave of them making front page news. Folks in my state weren't tying ropes around them and pulling them down. Heck, we have a couple of Confederate statues in my town that haven't been touched in the 40+ years I've been here that were suddenly vandalized.

"The left-wing boogeyman" that the extreme right-wing is railing against is in reality just mainstream America. The country's been getting steadily more progressive, and change is painful to people rooted in the past. We're living through a series of backlashes destined to fail (Trump's election being the biggest of them).

[Rip]

I'm just looking forward to tearing down the Robert Byrd statue.....

[Holman]

I would love it if every white supremacist disavowed white supremacy as fully as Byrd did for decades.

If you've already tarred yourself with bigotry, you should absolutely follow Byrd's example.

Hey! Now it's your turn to remind us that the original Klansmen were all Democrats! Go for it! That never gets old.

[LawBeefaroni]

I think if we destroy our history, good or bad, we'll understand ourselves, and each other, even less. I can live without rebel statues and flags if people feel they are hurtful, but please, please, please don't replace it with some modern art.

The statues belong in museums. As does modern art. Aside from possibly being markers of artistic styles of the time, monuments and statues aren't history. They memorialize it.

Let the old statue destroying begin.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Ab ... 97443.html

Um, Englewood. I'm glad someone took a few minutes to stop shooting and burn a statue. I promise you it wasn't a calculated political statement, more a general "we're ignored here in hell, let's burn this" type of statement. That or the Alderman did it to get some press coverage.



Here, take this and run with it:

One petition to remove the Balbo Monument and rename Balbo Drive has gathered more than 180 signatures this week, and another is calling for the road to be renamed Ida B. Wells Way.

The Balbo Monument, which is a column atop a pedestal, was gifted to the city by fascist Italian dictator Benito Mussolini in the early 1930s. Mussolini — who passed anti-Semitic laws, perpetrated war crimes and was an ally of Nazi leader Adolf Hitler during World War II — gave the monument to Chicago in honor of Gen. Italo Balbo's flight from Rome to Chicago.

There are questionable monuments all over the country.

[Rip]

I would love it if every white supremacist disavowed white supremacy as fully as Byrd did for decades.

If you've already tarred yourself with bigotry, you should absolutely follow Byrd's example.

Hey! Now it's your turn to remind us that the original Klansmen were all Democrats! Go for it! That never gets old.

It wasn't such ancient history.

I shall never fight in the armed forces with a negro by my side ... Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds.

— Robert C. Byrd, in a letter to Sen. Theodore Bilbo (D-MS), 1944

In an interview taped Friday for "Fox News Sunday," Byrd, 83, was asked about race relations in the United States.

"They are much, much better than they've ever been in my lifetime," Byrd said, but added that he believed people talk about race too much.

"My old mom told me, 'Robert, you can't go to heaven if you hate anybody.' We practice that. There are white niggers. I've seen a lot of white niggers in my time. I'm going to use that word. We just need to work together to make our country a better country, and I'd just as soon quit talking about it so much."

Then there is that whole filibustering the civil rights act thing.

As recently as 2005, in his memoir, Byrd describes the KKK as a fraternal assembly of, quote, "upstanding people," end quote. He was the only senator to vote against both African-American Supreme Court nominees Thurgood Marshall and Clarence Thomas.

He personally filibustered the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964. He opposed President Truman's initiative to integrate the Armed Forces. And he said he would never fight, quote, "with a negro by my side. Rather, I should die 1,000 times than to see this beloved land become degraded by race mongrels," end quote.

He once called Martin Luther King a, quote, "self-seeking rabble- rouser" and even told the FBI he could give a speech condemning King on the floor of the Senate, saying it was time that the civil rights leader, quote, "met his waterloo."

He also once said the writers of the Declaration of Independence did not intend for words "all men created equal" to be taken literally.

[PLW]

If the people of WV want to choose someone else to represent them in the Statuary Hall, I'm fine with that.

Edit: NM, I guess that statue is somewhere else.

[noxiousdog]

My guess is that if people want to take down the Byrd statue for racial harmony, Byrd would help them.

[Holman]

You never fail to move those goalposts, Rip.

Why are right-wingers so obsessed with Byrd, BTW? Do you believe he's some sort of mainstay or guiding light of Democratic politics? Is he a leader? Does he set the agenda?

Of course not. He's just the best piece of whataboutism you can find, and even so you have to reach back decades to make it work.

I'll bet most liberals today have no idea who he is.

[Sepiche]

Let's stay focused on the actual, avowed racist that lives in the Whitehouse and thinks it's a good political strategy to defend white supremacists and throw gas on a fire during a national tragedy.

[noxiousdog]

You never fail to move those goalposts, Rip.

Why are right-wingers so obsessed with Byrd, BTW? Do you believe he's some sort of mainstay or guiding light of Democratic politics? Is he a leader? Does he set the agenda?

Of course not. He's just the best piece of whataboutism you can find, and even so you have to reach back decades to make it work.

I'll bet most liberals today have no idea who he is.

It's the "They did it too!" argument that is supposed to justify your actions.

[Defiant]

[Moliere]

The ends justify the means.

[El Guapo]

I was down visiting my folks for a few days and came SO close to making it out without my dad bringing up politics. But about 15 minutes before I left, he started complaining about the association of the Confederate flag with slavery. He's one of those people that always make the argument that the civil war was not about slavery. Normally I walk away from these arguments, but this time I chose not to, and argued against him.

In the end, we ended up agreeing to disagree, but it made me sad that a man whom I love deeply, and who claims up and down to not be racist can't get see how these images hurt other people.

Honest question, did you show him the literal quote from Jefferson Davis denoting Slavery as the primary reason for the war?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

I didn't. I really should have prepared for the conversation, but I was really hoping that we could have avoided the conversation. I was so close!

Don't argue, just calmly offer to send him ample sources from Confederate leaders about how slavery was the cause of the war. It's funny how anyone disputes this, since the confederates themselves wouldn't fucking shut up about it.

[YellowKing]

Let's stay focused on the actual, avowed racist that lives in the Whitehouse and thinks it's a good political strategy to defend white supremacists and throw gas on a fire during a national tragedy.

Is that the same one that Heather Heyer's mom refuses to talk to because he equated her murdered daughter with neo-Nazis?

[LordMortis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVvpXZxXWZU

[Smoove_B]

It's the "They did it too!" argument that is supposed to justify your actions.

It's used because it is a well-tested strategy.

The Guardian deemed whataboutism, as used in Russia, "practically a national ideology". Journalist Julia Ioffe wrote that "Anyone who has ever studied the Soviet Union" was aware of the technique, citing the Soviet rejoinder to criticism, And you are lynching Negroes, as a "classic" example of the tactic. Writing for Bloomberg News, Leonid Bershidsky called whataboutism a "Russian tradition", while The New Yorker described the technique as "a strategy of false moral equivalences". Jill Dougherty called whataboutism a "sacred Russian tactic", and compared it to The pot calling the kettle black.

[Moliere]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVvpXZxXWZU

Did Rip hack your account to post a random YouTube link with no description?

[malchior]

I think it'd be fair to say whataboutism is rampant in the press here as well. It is mostly just a different variant where we think we need to balance every opinion with a counter one even if they are in different universes of credibility. Climate change deniers put on tv to debate Climate Scientists is the perfect example. It waters down the truth into a he said/she said game instead of providing actual balanced nuanced understanding of an issue.

[Skinypupy]

Mother of Charlotesville victim refuses to talk with Trump, tells him to "Think before he speaks". Good for her.

Oh, and let's not gloss over this little side note:

Bro said the White House attempted to reach her repeatedly during her daughter's Wednesday funeral.

"At first I just missed his calls," she said. "The call -- the first call looked like actually came during the funeral. I didn't even see that message."

They tried calling during her daughters funeral. They couldn't even be bothered to check when that was (never mind the fact it was being televised) and schedule the calls around it. This administration is made up of truly awful, awful people.

[LordMortis]

Mother of Charlotesville victim refuses to talk with Trump, tells him to "Think before he speaks". Good for her.

Oh, and let's not gloss over this little side note:

Bro said the White House attempted to reach her repeatedly during her daughter's Wednesday funeral.

"At first I just missed his calls," she said. "The call -- the first call looked like actually came during the funeral. I didn't even see that message."

They tried calling during her daughters funeral. They couldn't even be bothered to check when that was (never mind the fact it was being televised) and schedule the calls around it. This administration is made up of truly awful, awful people.

They likely wanted to say. "I spoke to ... at the funeral. Wonderful woman. Out of context lie about how she wants all Americans to get along and how she admires Trump Lovely lady."

[naednek]

Mother of Charlotesville victim refuses to talk with Trump, tells him to "Think before he speaks". Good for her.

Oh, and let's not gloss over this little side note:

Bro said the White House attempted to reach her repeatedly during her daughter's Wednesday funeral.

"At first I just missed his calls," she said. "The call -- the first call looked like actually came during the funeral. I didn't even see that message."

They tried calling during her daughters funeral. They couldn't even be bothered to check when that was (never mind the fact it was being televised) and schedule the calls around it. This administration is made up of truly awful, awful people.

She also gave Trump the best advice...

THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK

[YellowKing]

In the past 20 minutes I've heard the following claims from co-workers:

- Nobody alive owned slaves, so this whole race thing is overblown
- Northerners also owned slaves, so they can STFU
- Trump's response was justified due to the bullying he's received from the media
- Neo-Nazis aren't actual Nazis, so what's the big deal?
- This entire racial divide is a conspiracy orchestrated by the left to destroy America

[Moliere]

I can't believe how much you guys talk to your co-workers. I wear headphones and avoid conversations (and eye contact) as much as possible.

[Isgrimnur]

But open floor plans are supposed to foster collaboration and innovation! /s

[YellowKing]

Oh believe me, I wasn't talking.

However, at one point my co-worker said, "I can't understand how the anti-Trump folks can't see how WRONG they are."

To which I almost screamed, "NO, YOU'RE THE PUPPET!"