Pyperkub wrote:
Seeing as how Darth Cheney and the Rumsfelds lied us into a war and essentially created the surveillance state in the US (with a lot of unconstitutional portions, as we've found out since ), I feel the term is still warranted.
But I will grant that he was a lot more competent than anyone currently serving, just missing a moral compass (torture memos. ..).
Let's not forget cratering the economy and trashing the budget. Yeah, remember surpluses?
As reprehensible as he is, and for all that he might actually be an existential threat, Trump still has a high bar to clear for tangible damage done. Unfortunately he might still have a long time to do it.
Rip wrote:
I would like them to say that that candidate (whoever it ends up being) is a far better choice than Trump. Which will never happen. I will go ahead and predict that whoever the next person not named Trump to run on the Republican ticket will be widely vilified as being even worse than Trump. Although if you asked any of them right now they would say that no one could be worse than Trump because Hitler is dead.
Just like it was said at the time the only person that could be a worse POTUS than Bush was Cheney.
I wish I could say no one could be worse than Trump, but I wouldn't put anything past the GOP anymore.
So there's any number of things Trump could have been referencing here, I guess...whatever.
Ripcrickets
LMAO
"A lie can run round the world before the truth has got its boots on." -Terry Pratchett, The Truth "The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it." -Terry Pratchett, Monstrous Regiment
Rip wrote:
Trump's policies aren't doing him in, his being an uncontrollable douchebag is.
I hope you weren't trying to use this as an argument that if he wasn't such an uncontrollable douchebag, that he'd be doing okay on the policy front. For one thing, he doesn't have policies. He has a page of vague bullet points, most of which are wishful thinking. He's never had realistic or robust policy proposals for anything. He has one-liners that he can't back up with specifics other than "It'll be great and beautiful, believe me."
For his candidacy and Presidency, that lack of concrete policy proposals, or even basic understanding of the issues, has been background noise, constantly overshadowed by whatever fresh hell he's spouted onto Twitter or into a microphone today. Strip all that away (you'll need a team of backhoes), and suddenly the complete lack of policy proposals would be the news of the day. Frankly, I'd be fine if that became the case.
I can't imagine, even at my most inebriated, hearing a bouncer offering me an hour with a stripper for only $1,400 and thinking That sounds like a reasonable idea.-Two Sheds
Rip wrote:
Trump's policies aren't doing him in, his being an uncontrollable douchebag is.
I hope you weren't trying to use this as an argument that if he wasn't such an uncontrollable douchebag, that he'd be doing okay on the policy front. For one thing, he doesn't have policies. He has a page of vague bullet points, most of which are wishful thinking. He's never had realistic or robust policy proposals for anything. He has one-liners that he can't back up with specifics other than "It'll be great and beautiful, believe me."
For his candidacy and Presidency, that lack of concrete policy proposals, or even basic understanding of the issues, has been background noise, constantly overshadowed by whatever fresh hell he's spouted onto Twitter or into a microphone today. Strip all that away (you'll need a team of backhoes), and suddenly the complete lack of policy proposals would be the news of the day. Frankly, I'd be fine if that became the case.
I'm sure there are many who still wouldn't like his policies but his ability to remain in office for his term(s) wouldn't be in doubt if not for his lack of control. He gives his enemies tons of extra ammo without any policy/agenda upside by saying stupid shit.
At the end of the day he would be in a lot better position if he never said much of anything and let the paid mouthpieces do the word parsing.
Look, the Pershing thing is bullshit. It may feel good in a cock-swinging, frontier justice kind of way but it is still bullshit.
If you have any respect for history, read up about the Moro Rebellion and see for yourself. If your idea of history is 4 paragraphs from a chain email (or a tweet from a known idiot) then enjoy your ignorant bliss.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General "“I like taking the guns early...to go to court would have taken a long time. So you could do exactly what you’re saying, but take the guns first, go through due process second.” -President Donald Trump. "...To guard, protect, and maintain his liberty, the freedman should have the ballot; that the liberties of the American people were dependent upon the Ballot-box, the Jury-box, and the Cartridge-box, that without these no class of people could live and flourish in this country." - Frederick Douglass MYT
Holman wrote:The only thing that makes liberals remember Bush semi-fondly is his relative decency compared to Trump or to anyone in Trump's circle.
There's been no reassessment of the policy disasters that defined Bush's presidency.
But how are you going to demonize the next conservative Republican POTUS, you can't possible paint them with as fear and loathing as Trump has been. President Cruz is going to look like a brilliant statesman in comparison and that will be much more difficult to combat. Especially when I suspect he or Pence would manage to get things done that are far more damaging to the liberal agenda.
Should make for an interesting narrative.
AND what the narrative you would like to hear? nothing, right? nada.
I would like them to say that that candidate (whoever it ends up being) is a far better choice than Trump. Which will never happen. I will go ahead and predict that whoever the next person not named Trump to run on the Republican ticket will be widely vilified as being even worse than Trump. Although if you asked any of them right now they would say that no one could be worse than Trump because Hitler is dead.
Just like it was said at the time the only person that could be a worse POTUS than Bush was Cheney.
I am not and liberal and likely will never be liberal, though I do have some progressive beliefs. I can't speak for the media or the US or liberals but the next republican candidate for president likely won't be demonized for being worse than Trump. The RNC choosing the next republican candidate for president will be demonized and demonize the candidate because the RNC stands behind the president's decision to stand behind Nazis and the KKK.
Freyland wrote:My simple contribution to the present conversation is that I was still a Republican at the end of Bush's Administration.
Now, I am not.
In 2015, there was a still a chance I would vote for individual republicans. Now there is none.
The last republican I voted for was during the Bush the younger era...
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Freyland wrote:My simple contribution to the present conversation is that I was still a Republican at the end of Bush's Administration.
Now, I am not.
I'm not sure I was a Republican then, but I went from being 70% likely to vote for one to 1%.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
I guess it's normal now for senators, from the President's own party, to speak of hypotheticals such as impeachment?
President Donald Trump has stepped up his attacks on Republican senators, an approach he may regret if he is someday impeached and the Senate has to weigh charges against him stemming from an investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 U.S. election.
More than half of the 11 Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee, which would be central to any proceeding to remove Trump from office, have tangled with the Republican president, including on Thursday when he fired off early-morning tweets.
In one Twitter series, Trump called Senator Lindsey Graham "publicity seeking" and said he "just can't forget his election trouncing" in the 2016 presidential race. Trump also assailed Senator Jeff Flake, another Republican critic, as "a non-factor in the Senate," adding, "He's toxic."
Flake and Graham are members of the Judiciary Committee, whose Chairman Chuck Grassley has urged Trump to tone it down.
"He should be 100 percent sticking to ideas and forget about personalities," Grassley said on Friday when pressed on whether Trump might find himself without the friends in Congress he would need to defend himself in an impeachment proceeding.
For his part, Grassley said his views would not be colored by past presidential sniping.
"Let's say the House of Representatives impeached the president of the United States. Then I'm a juror," Grassley said. "The Senate is the jury that decides whether he should be impeached. The jury is supposed to be impartial."
"What? What?What?" -- The 14th Doctor
It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
When Bush the Younger got elected, I was as solid a Republican as you'd find. By the end of his Administration, I was not. Although that had a lot to do with things other than Rs and Ds, and more to do with a changing worldview that was beginning to be more empathetic to others, and a realization that my perceptions were based on what I saw around me, which aren't necessarily indicative of the wider reality.
I still think that I was probably 50/50 between McCain and Obama in the sense that if McCain hadn't demonstrated a remarkable lack of judgment in picking that absolute dunce for VP, I wouldn't have been able to pull the level for Obama.
Now? It will be a cold day in hell before I vote for anyone associated with this shitty political party.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Yesterday I read a Newsweek interview with the fellow who actually wrote The Art of the Deal. He maintains that Trump will resign, most likely before the end of this year. Trump can't stand failure and he will pull the plug when he recognizes that that is the only possible outcome, as Mueller's noose tightens, his own party abandons him, his staff remains rogue, the business community continues to defect, and his ramshackle policy agenda goes nowhere.
Not linking it because it's just speculation and you can easily find it if you're so motivated.
There's a lot of speculation that Romney might run for Hatch's senate seat in 2018 if Hatch retires, which would be interesting. I also wonder whether Romney would consider a 2020 primary challenge...guessing not on that, though, but who knows.
Kraken wrote:Yesterday I read a Newsweek interview with the fellow who actually wrote The Art of the Deal. He maintains that Trump will resign, most likely before the end of this year. Trump can't stand failure and he will pull the plug when he recognizes that that is the only possible outcome, as Mueller's noose tightens, his own party abandons him, his staff remains rogue, the business community continues to defect, and his ramshackle policy agenda goes nowhere.
Not linking it because it's just speculation and you can easily find it if you're so motivated.
I think that's just wishful thinking. I fully expect him to last 4 years and if he loses the election (I can't promise he will with how batshit crazy this world is) he will then claim it's an invalid election and it will be an epic meltdown of the ages.
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.
Kraken wrote:Yesterday I read a Newsweek interview with the fellow who actually wrote The Art of the Deal. He maintains that Trump will resign, most likely before the end of this year. Trump can't stand failure and he will pull the plug when he recognizes that that is the only possible outcome, as Mueller's noose tightens, his own party abandons him, his staff remains rogue, the business community continues to defect, and his ramshackle policy agenda goes nowhere.
Not linking it because it's just speculation and you can easily find it if you're so motivated.
I dunno. The big wild card here is that we don't know the full details about exactly what Trump and his family have done. It seems reasonably likely that Trump family members (including possibly Trump himself) could wind up getting indicted. If Trump resigns he loses a lot of tools on that - his ability to pardon, his (arguable) immunity from indictment, his ability to threaten / try to fire Mueller, etc.
Unless Trump is a lot more pristine than it looks like, it's really hard for me to see him resigning unless he gets some assurances from Pence that Pence will pardon him.
I guess Trump could blanket pardon himself and his family, and then resign. But even then, given the debates about whether a president *can* pardon himself, even that would not remove the risk.
I might not agree with some of Mitt's policy positions but he nailed it. Also interesting that people like himself and Kasich feel the need to speak out about taking the party back this week. Maybe the dam is breaking; it'd certainly be interesting to see the Republicans take positions that occupy the center in an effort to jettison the extremists. You have to figure the money is going to flee from these guys as fast as they abandoned his councils and they will have to re-think who they fund.
At this point, unless something changes dramatically, I would be shocked if Kasich doesn't mount a primary challenge in 2020. It'll be interesting to see if there are others.
malchior wrote:I might not agree with some of Mitt's policy positions but he nailed it. Also interesting that people like himself and Kasich feel the need to speak out about taking the party back this week.
They absolutely do and it's going to be a sucky fight for them. They've lost a core of their support because the RNC continue to court and ignorance and quite frankly complete moral bankruptcy aka evil, and it's not up to me to be wooed and I won't return until the RNC burns and I don't think the RNC will take kindly to this.
El Guapo wrote:At this point, unless something changes dramatically, I would be shocked if Kasich doesn't mount a primary challenge in 2020. It'll be interesting to see if there are others.
I don't see how he'd have any chance in hell to beat Trump in a Republican primary. GOP voters by and large support Trump and see Kasich as a RINO. Kasich is embodies the respectable, establishment GOP of a bygone era. It's Trump's party now.
I agree it is a long shot but he is already extremely damaged. Trump is looking at a solid 2 years of complete failure on every front. If he survives that, it'll be hard to imagine the GOP not trying to save themselves. Or else 2020 will be a complete bloodbath - idiotic populace or not.
malchior wrote:I might not agree with some of Mitt's policy positions but he nailed it.
His statement is by far the best one I've read from any politician, left or right.
More republicans better copy and paste it if they want any chance of winning statewide elections. In a few years we are going to see politicians falling all over themselves to claim how they were against Trump from the beginning, just like they have been doing with the Iraq war for the past decade.
El Guapo wrote:At this point, unless something changes dramatically, I would be shocked if Kasich doesn't mount a primary challenge in 2020. It'll be interesting to see if there are others.
I don't see how he'd have any chance in hell to beat Trump in a Republican primary. GOP voters by and large support Trump and see Kasich as a RINO. Kasich is embodies the respectable, establishment GOP of a bygone era. It's Trump's party now.
I don't know that Kasich would win necessarily, but Trump's numbers continue to trend downward, even among Republicans. By 2020 Trump could become vulnerable in a primary if things continue this way. And bear in mind that Trump was campaigning in the 2016 primary on stuff like "no cuts to Medicare and Medicaid". Kasich could run a "compassionate conservative" style campaign premised on the (accurate) statement that Trump is a con man who lied to them and then immediately tried to pass a draconian bill slashing Medicaid, etc.
Bear in mind that Kasich's about as conservative as Trump policy wise, so he could make a reasonable populist style pitch, especially if polls are looking like Trump would be doomed in the general.
The key, I think, would be that no other primary contenders enter the race. One on one, Kasich might have a shot. Trump benefited mightily in the 2016 primary campaign from the anti-Trump vote being split among so many rivals. Straight up against a single primary opponent, he's vulnerability would be a lot higher.
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msteelers wrote:More republicans better copy and paste it if they want any chance of winning statewide elections. In a few years we are going to see politicians falling all over themselves to claim how they were against Trump from the beginning, just like they have been doing with the Iraq war for the past decade.
The Republican Party under Donald Trump has regressed from the party of Lincoln to the party of Lee (who, as a historical matter, is actually a skeleton in the Democrats' closet). Hanging racism around Republican necks is the fulfillment of the dearest wish of the left, and unless powerfully rebutted by however many decent Republicans still exist, will discredit the party for years to come.
Captain Caveman wrote:The key, I think, would be that no other primary contenders enter the race. One on one, Kasich might have a shot. Trump benefited mightily in the 2016 primary campaign from the anti-Trump vote being split among so many rivals. Straight up against a single primary opponent, he's vulnerability would be a lot higher.
Well, Kasich could benefit from a far right figure entering the race too - a Michelle Bachmann or Steve King - someone to split the uber-deplorable vote. But otherwise I agree.
In another resounding victory for Trumpism, all but one of the left-wing cosmopolitan elites on the President's Committee on the Arts and the Humanities have been drained from the swamp.
Members of the President's Committee on the Arts and the Humanities resigned Friday over U.S. President Donald Trump's response to the violent unrest in Charlottesville, Virginia.
"Supremacy, discrimination and vitriol are not American values. Your values are not American values," the members wrote in their resignation letter dated Friday.
"If this is not clear to you, then we call on you to resign your office, too."
The committee included private members such as actor Kal Penn, author Jhumpa Lahiri, painter and photographer Chuck Close, singer-songwriter Paula E. Boggs and theatre performer John Lloyd Young. All of the members were holdovers from former president Barack Obama's tenure.
"The Administration's refusal to quickly and unequivocally condemn the cancer of hatred only further emboldens those who wish America ill," the letter reads.
"Ignoring your hateful rhetoric would have made us complicit in your words and actions. We took a patriotic oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic."
The only private member who did not sign the resignation letter was Broadway director George C. Wolfe.
Representatives for Wolfe at Creative Arts Agency did not have any immediate comment on whether he had resigned, according to The Associated Press, and the White House also did not immediately respond to a request for comment Friday.
"What? What?What?" -- The 14th Doctor
It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
msteelers wrote:More republicans better copy and paste it if they want any chance of winning statewide elections. In a few years we are going to see politicians falling all over themselves to claim how they were against Trump from the beginning, just like they have been doing with the Iraq war for the past decade.
The Republican Party under Donald Trump has regressed from the party of Lincoln to the party of Lee (who, as a historical matter, is actually a skeleton in the Democrats' closet). Hanging racism around Republican necks is the fulfillment of the dearest wish of the left, and unless powerfully rebutted by however many decent Republicans still exist, will discredit the party for years to come.
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
malchior wrote:Word is dropping that Bannon has been fired! Stephen Miller has been unchained!
This seems like an unmitigated good thing. Both because Bannon is a noxious person who wants to do awful things, and because it would presumably cause Bannon to turn on Trump at least partially, which should further erode Trump's support.
malchior wrote:Word is dropping that Bannon has been fired! Stephen Miller has been unchained!
This seems like an unmitigated good thing. Both because Bannon is a noxious person who wants to do awful things, and because it would presumably cause Bannon to turn on Trump at least partially, which should further erode Trump's support.
A person close to Mr. Bannon insisted the parting of ways was his idea, and that he had submitted his resignation to the president on Aug. 7, to be announced at the start of this week, but it was delayed in the wake of the racial unrest in Charlottesville, Va.
Something tells me we haven't see the last of him.
malchior wrote:Word is dropping that Bannon has been fired! Stephen Miller has been unchained!
This seems like an unmitigated good thing. Both because Bannon is a noxious person who wants to do awful things, and because it would presumably cause Bannon to turn on Trump at least partially, which should further erode Trump's support.
I'll believe it when he's actually out. I've read analyses which note that rumours about Bannon's imminent demise tend to be leaked as a distraction to whatever crisis du jour is in the current news cycle. OTOH, Bannon has seemingly gone out of his way this week to give Trump reason to resent him, so maybe this time is for real.
"What? What?What?" -- The 14th Doctor
It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
malchior wrote:Word is dropping that Bannon has been fired! Stephen Miller has been unchained!
This seems like an unmitigated good thing. Both because Bannon is a noxious person who wants to do awful things, and because it would presumably cause Bannon to turn on Trump at least partially, which should further erode Trump's support.
I doubt he'll turn on Trump, and actually expect the opposite. There's lots of money, power, and influence running a propaganda shop for Trump's nationalist agenda. And now he can do so while seemingly independent from the WH.
malchior wrote:Word is dropping that Bannon has been fired! Stephen Miller has been unchained!
This seems like an unmitigated good thing. Both because Bannon is a noxious person who wants to do awful things, and because it would presumably cause Bannon to turn on Trump at least partially, which should further erode Trump's support.
I'm not so sure. Bannon was undermined by his presence lately because Trump didn't trust him. So Bannon will again begin to influence Trump through the single most important mechanism he has going for him - Breitbart. These guys all know that Trump is a fucking moron and how to work him by putting garbage information into his twitter feed/cable news input channel. Bannon most of all.
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