The Former Trump Presidency Thread

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:46 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
My only hope for all this is that we're seeing the death throes of a dying administration, and the cruel actions taken by an individual that knows his days are numbered. I can only imagine what the history books will say about the America we've been living in since January. It's absolutely shameful.

I wish Futurama tech arrives just before he dies so we can keep his head in a jar. We can then pass him around from college to college to sit in on classes that explain that despite being the worst president ever, he was a worse human being. That he was petty and small and hateful and this is how he will be known to all future generations.

The Rips of the world can feed him and whisper in his ear how they didn't think he was all that bad, really, but he'll know the truth, because we'll make him sit through it each and every day.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:49 pm

McConnell's statement on Trump's action:

“President Obama wrongly believed he had the authority to re-write our immigration law. Today’s action by President Trump corrects that fundamental mistake.

“This Congress will continue working on securing our border and ensuring a lawful system of immigration that works.”

Please do explain how today's action does literally anything to "secure our borders", you hypocritical asswipe.

And while you're at it, please do explain the difference between Obama using his "authority to re-write our immigration law" and Trump issuing his Muslim ban. I'm sure that will be a fascinating display of mental gymnastics.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:41 pm

We are "led" by immoral assholes. No doubt about it. The light is getting very dim on the city on the hill.

And btw just because it shows how morally bankrupt this crew is - there are now rumbles that De Vos is going to roll back sexual assault guidelines for college campuses this week as well. Dismantling decency one policy at a time.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:43 pm

Captain Caveman wrote:Obama enters the fray on DACA. Here's his statement.

Because Obama was awesome when it came to deportation policies? Notice that Obama not only deported more than Bush Jr. (or any other President), but he always deported more non-criminals than criminals.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:47 pm

I'm confused here - I don't think anyone here said that deportations were de facto cruel or wrong. There are many reasons to deport non-criminals. That isn't germane to why many people see this as particularly inhumane and cruel. The DACA decision is bad governance for a host of reasons but "Obama" deporting more people has nothing to do with that.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:53 pm

Moliere wrote:
Captain Caveman wrote:Obama enters the fray on DACA. Here's his statement.
Because Obama was awesome when it came to deportation policies? Notice that Obama not only deported more than Bush Jr. (or any other President), but he always deported more non-criminals than criminals.

Everyone has always deported more non-criminals according to the chart.

The data point that needs to be looked at is did DACA free up resources to go after more criminals and non-dreamer deportees. If so, eliminating DACA will actually reduce deportations, including those of criminals.

Obama alluded to the resource thing in his post and it makes some sense. Dreamers will fight the hardest to stay and will have the best financial, legal, and moral support.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:58 pm

Trump's Impending Immigration Sell-Out.

Interesting article by David Frum (who is something of an immigration restrictionist) about how Trump's plan as a political matter is likely to lead to DACA legalization without offsetting immigration controls.

Which for me would be a pretty solid result, so fingers crossed.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:53 pm

I went in to read that article believing I would disagree but I think he is going to be mostly right. The GOP likely will not pass a fix. And I think Trump may veto some plans. He is that big a fucking moron. This is another self inflicted wound.

I think it is beyond unfortunate that good people are suffering but at least he will be likely further weakened. Hardly consolation but it is something.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:45 pm

He couldn't find the courage to make the announcement himself. Maybe this is the "pivot" we been hearing about finally because he is behaving like a normal politician.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:55 pm

malchior wrote:We are "led" by immoral assholes. No doubt about it. The light is getting very dim on the city on the hill.

In the Age of Trump, politics is a game with no shame

For decades, conventional political wisdom said a well-crafted apology was a necessary step in moving past a bad news cycle. But like so many Washington rules, the political apology seems to be another casualty of the Trump culture wars.

Political observers said elected officials, especially those who support Trump, are now mimicking the president’s inability to be shamed or pressured by outsiders.

“Politicians who have Trump-like profiles have gotten the message,” said Larry Sabato, director of the University of Virginia’s Center for Politics. “The old method of dealing with scandal was the fervent apology — sometimes tearful, occasionally accompanied by a full apology tour. It’s painful and no longer necessary.”

Trump’s refusal to admit fault is a core part of his public personality, as central as his deal-making.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:19 am

Moliere wrote:
Captain Caveman wrote:Obama enters the fray on DACA. Here's his statement.
Because Obama was awesome when it came to deportation policies? Notice that Obama not only deported more than Bush Jr. (or any other President), but he always deported more non-criminals than criminals.

I think the big takeaway from that graph is the ratio rather than the numbers.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:30 am

There are about twice as many illegals as there was in 2001.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:32 am

The brownshirts are just getting better at routing them out.

I wonder if any of them wrote a diary?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:35 am

Rip wrote:There are about twice as many illegals as there was in 2001.

The undocumented immigrant population rose sharply in the 90s but has actually declined over the last decade.

PLW · Post by **PLW** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:12 am

hepcat wrote:
Rip wrote:There are about twice as many illegals as there was in 2001.
The undocumented immigrant population rose sharply in the 90s but has actually declined over the last decade.

Once more, with a citation.

Looks like you're both right! Well, not doubled, but up 50% or so.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:50 am

hepcat wrote:
Rip wrote:There are about twice as many illegals as there was in 2001.
The undocumented immigrant population rose sharply in the 90s but has actually declined over the last decade.

More like it has stayed the same. Been about 11M since 2006.

It is however 10X what it was in 1974.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:51 am

8.6 percent to 11.6 is not a 100 percent growth. It's not even a 50 percent growth.

Rip wrote:
hepcat wrote:
Rip wrote:There are about twice as many illegals as there was in 2001.
The undocumented immigrant population rose sharply in the 90s but has actually declined over the last decade.
More like it has stayed the same. Been about 11M since 2006.

12.2 to 11.3 is not "the same". You wanted to bring sensationalism to this discussion, but you simply can't. There are Breitbart facts and there are real facts. I really wish you'd stick to the latter.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:56 am

hepcat wrote:8.6 percent to 11.6 is not a 100 percent growth. It's not even a 50 percent growth.

Rip wrote:
hepcat wrote:
Rip wrote:There are about twice as many illegals as there was in 2001.
The undocumented immigrant population rose sharply in the 90s but has actually declined over the last decade.
More like it has stayed the same. Been about 11M since 2006.
12.2 to 11.3 is not "the same".

2006 11.5M
2016 11.3M

https://immigration.procon.org/view.res ... eID=000844

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:18 am

The graph I was replying to clearly states 12.2. But if you want to wield semantics like a hammer, 11.5 is still larger than 11.3.

But I admire the dedication you show by continuing to look for a graph that backs up your false claim that the number of undocumented immigrants in the US has doubled since 2001. You go, little warrior!

edit: I missed this hilarious little gem you later threw out there in one of your patented goal post moving gambits.

Rip wrote:
It is however 10X what it was in 1974.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:20 am

Rip wrote:It is however 10X what it was in 1974.

You mean more people have access to transportation today than in 1974 to get them away from horrible situations in pursuit of opportunity?! The horror.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:40 am

Remus West wrote:
Rip wrote:It is however 10X what it was in 1974.

You mean more people have access to transportation today than in 1974 to get them away from horrible situations in pursuit of opportunity?! The horror.

Also, the world's population has nearly doubled in that time. A 3.5 billion net population gain.

Everyone should stop and think about that.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:11 am

Once unauthorized immigrants arrived in the US, they decided to stay. (Not) Shocking!

For the total number of unauthorized immigrants to fall by 1 million since 2007, more had to die or leave than arrive. How can anyone call this a border emergency?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:22 am

PBS Frontline

By the start of the 1970s, the number of illegal aliens had tripled since 1965, and four out of five illegal immigrants arriving to the U.S. are from Mexico. By 1972, the now-defunct Immigration and Naturalization Service estimated that the illegal immigrant population had topped 1 million, leading many to call illegal immigration out of control. For the rest of the decade, the estimates of the country's illegal immigrant population varied widely. In 1975, the U.S. House of Representatives introduced a bill providing for amnesty along with employer sanctions for hiring illegal immigrants. Concerned about the rise in illegal immigration, President Gerald Ford set up a Domestic Council Committee on Illegal Aliens, which reported that illegal immigrants were driving down the wages of low-skilled workers. The committee findings urged employer sanctions, harsher penalties for smugglers and an amnesty program. Congress was dissatisfied with the proposals, and in 1978 passed a law to create the Select Commission on Immigration and Refugee Policy to further explore national solutions. Under the Carter administration, the Select Commission determined that the nation’s immigration policy was in disarray. The Select Commission recommended a focus on law enforcement, such as employer sanctions for hiring illegal immigrants, and better border security. It simultaneously rejected a foreign guest-worker program, while supporting amnesty for illegal immigrants. Little action was taken immediately.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:29 pm

Zarathud wrote: For the total number of unauthorized immigrants to fall by 1 million since 2007, more had to die or leave than arrive. How can anyone call this a border emergency?

Wait until our crops go unharvested, our dishes unwashed, our children unwatched and our houses unkempt. That's when the real emergency begins.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:10 pm

Trump overrules GOP with deal on spending, debt, Harvey aid

President Donald Trump overruled congressional Republicans and his own treasury secretary Wednesday and cut a deal with Democrats to fund the government and raise the federal borrowing limit for three months, all part of an agreement to speed money to Harvey relief.

In the course of a relatively brief negotiating session at the White House, Trump largely sided with Democratic leaders as they pushed for the three-month deal. He brushed aside calls from Republican congressional leaders and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin for a longer extension to the debt limit, which Republicans had been aiming for to avoid having to take another vote on the politically toxic issue before the 2018 elections.

Trump then boarded a plane to North Dakota with Democratic Sen. Heidi Heitkamp, in an effort to garner bipartisan support for tax legislation that Republican leaders are crafting on a purely partisan basis.

That continued the day of bizarre disconnects between the president and the leaders of his party.

"We had a very good meeting with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer," Trump told reporters on Air Force One, not bothering to mention House Speaker Paul Ryan or Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, who also were present. "We agreed to a three-month extension on debt ceiling, which they consider to be sacred, very important."

"We had a very good meeting, we essentially came to a deal and I think the deal will be very good," Trump said. Details of the meeting were disclosed by several aides briefed on the proceedings who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk publicly.

The deal promises to speed the $7.9 billion Hurricane Harvey aid bill, which passed the House overwhelmingly Wednesday, to Trump's desk before disaster accounts run out later this week.

The move also buys almost three months, until Dec. 15, for Washington to try to solve myriad other issues, including more funding for the military, immigration and health care, and a longer-term increase in the government's borrowing authority to avoid a first-ever default.

Trump cut the deal at the White House just hours after Ryan had slammed the idea of the three-month extension sought by Democrats as "ridiculous."

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:23 pm

Worst negotiator ever.

I hope the Democrats continue to take advantage of Trump's political stupidity. Then even Rip might start calling for his impeachment.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:26 pm

I thought this was from the Onion at first but it's a real story. Confused.

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Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:29 pm

It seems like he's just super focused on looking like he's master of the storm or something. Or he's drunk. Or they brought ice cream.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:34 pm

Republican leadership is understandably thrilled.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:52 pm

Zarathud wrote:Once unauthorized immigrants arrived in the US, they decided to stay. (Not) Shocking!

For the total number of unauthorized immigrants to fall by 1 million since 2007, more had to die or leave than arrive. How can anyone call this a border emergency?

No chance any of them became documented?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:55 pm

The Dems are impressing me. They know they've got a confused moron in office and they're finally using that to their advantage.

I can't wait to see the Breitbart explosion over this.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:10 pm

I dislike Trump more than the next guy but I must be missing something. You are slamming him and praising Democrats for him stepping up to the plate in spite of the GOP for the good of the Union and for compassion to those affected by Harvey.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:30 pm

I am surprised at you surprise.

I fully expect everything he does undesirable will be attributed to his evilness and anything good to his ignorance.

He could give every illegal immigrant in the country amnesty in the morning and most of the left would find a way to disparage him for it.

Tis the world we now live in.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:41 pm

Oh ya poor fn Trump. Who knew being a lying sack of crap would result in people not trusting anything he does. Weird how that works. This isn't politics. This isn't left/right. It's that he's batshit insane.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:47 pm

Rip wrote:I am surprised at you surprise.

I fully expect everything he does undesirable will be attributed to his evilness and anything good to his ignorance.

He could give every illegal immigrant in the country amnesty in the morning and most of the left would find a way to disparage him for it.

Tis the world we now live in.

I don't care about left and right. I care what's best for me, my family, my community, the world I live in, my country, and my state, kinda sorta in that order.

Also, I used to dream of the day when I could praise Trump when I didn't think it possible. He beat that out of me in the first month. This is a good thing IMO but it's not the grail or anything.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:19 pm

LordMortis wrote:I dislike Trump more than the next guy but I must be missing something. You are slamming him and praising Democrats for him stepping up to the plate in spite of the GOP for the good of the Union and for compassion to those affected by Harvey.

The question is whether Trump "stepped up to the plate for the good of the Union" or pointedly humilated McConnell and Ryan. Given his track record, I believe I know which of those possibilities has a greater probability.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:39 pm

LordMortis wrote:I dislike Trump more than the next guy but I must be missing something. You are slamming him and praising Democrats for him stepping up to the plate in spite of the GOP for the good of the Union and for compassion to those affected by Harvey.

+1

This is the compromise I've been waiting for. More of this please Mr. Trump.

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Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:57 pm

Rip wrote:He could give every illegal immigrant in the country amnesty in the morning and most of the left would find a way to disparage him for it.

Well, a lot would, because that's a stupid idea, first and foremost.

But to your point, yeah, a lot would because he has a track record of being a lying scumbag piece of shit with a "me first" mentality. ANYthing he does is suspect immediately because...look at his past behavior - not exactly a shining record of professionalism or even seeming to know what the fuck he's doing.

It would take several "good" actions in a row for me to change my thought process on his behavior, and take his actions at face value.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:12 pm

LordMortis wrote:I dislike Trump more than the next guy but I must be missing something. You are slamming him and praising Democrats for him stepping up to the plate in spite of the GOP for the good of the Union and for compassion to those affected by Harvey.

No, I'm slamming him for his history of being a complete and utter moron with the ego of a 4 year old. If the Mangerine had a history of doing the right thing...hell, even the somewhat right thing...I might be as easily convinced as you that he's doing this out of the kindness of his heart. As it stands, it's going to take more than one act of humanity (that may or may not have been due to his being swayed by the Dems appealing to his fragile sense of self worth) before I start singing his praises.

Rip wrote:I am surprised at you surprise.

I fully expect everything he does undesirable will be attributed to his evilness and anything good to his ignorance.

He could give every illegal immigrant in the country amnesty in the morning and most of the left would find a way to disparage him for it.

Tis the world we now live in.

If you hadn't started threads in the past dedicated almost solely to your love of calling Hillary Clinton ugly, blaming her for things easily proven not to be her fault, and slamming Obama for things that you now praise Trump for, I might not find this attempt at taking the high road so laughable. You've been living in the world you now complain about since 1993, with a brief pause from 2001 to 2008, before moving back in in 2009.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:25 pm

Rip wrote:I am surprised at you surprise.

He could give every illegal immigrant in the country amnesty in the morning and most of the left would find a way to disparage him for it.

Your surprise comes because of the picture you've painted for yourself of the left. You obviously have no fucking clue what they want, but that doesn't get in the way of your fantasy.