msteelers wrote:Trump only knows how to negotiate from a position of power. His entire reputation is built on it. From the Art of the Deal:
The best thing you can do is deal from strength, and leverage is the biggest strength you can have. Leverage is having something the other guy wants. Or better yet, needs. Or best of all, simply can't do without
In his warped mind, he has now shifted the balance of power so that he has all of it again. He's already tweeted out that the "Dems should call me to fix!". He thinks that by destroying the ACA he now has all the leverage. That this harms people doesn't enter into the equation with him.
But of course, he doesn't get any political leverage from this. All of the GOP ideas would cause more people to lose insurance than even with his intentional sabotage. There's no incentive for democrats to sign onto anything that Trump and the GOP are offering. Plus any chaos / damage going into 2018 is good (politically) for democrats, since people usually blame the President's party for anything that they are unhappy about (even if that's irrational). And this is even better because this is something tied directly to Trump in an unequivocal way.
So, democrats aren't going to be beating down his door to negotiate on this. There's a much higher chance that GOP congressional leadership caves and allows a bill authorizing CSRs to pass (though I think the odds of that are low, just higher than zero).
I don't know, I feel like we're in bizzaro world where anything he does doesn't stick to him. So somehow this will all be the dems fault. I need to stop checking the news. Everyday is more depressing than the last.
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.
Octavious wrote:I don't know, I feel like we're in bizzaro world where anything he does doesn't stick to him. So somehow this will all be the dems fault. I need to stop checking the news. Everyday is more depressing than the last.
Trump's more popular than he should be, I suppose, but his popularity should be zero. He is historically unpopular, though, and democrats are consistently outperforming the partisan lean of districts in state and federal elections this year.
Not that that guarantees wins in 2018 and 2020, since there are a lot of structural barriers to democrats in place, which will probably get worse rather than better. And certainly plenty of potential for democratic dysfunction.
Octavious wrote:I think the republicans are going to have to try REALLY hard to spin this to not make them complete shit holes in this case. Sadly his base will cheer as poor people lose their coverage and rates spike even more. Eh screw it we're fucked.
They should be able to tattoo the blame indelibly on Trump's fat orange ass. He really does own the failing healthcare sector now. Why would the GOP ride to the rescue?
Octavious wrote:I think the republicans are going to have to try REALLY hard to spin this to not make them complete shit holes in this case. Sadly his base will cheer as poor people lose their coverage and rates spike even more. Eh screw it we're fucked.
They should be able to tattoo the blame indelibly on Trump's fat orange ass. He really does own the failing healthcare sector now. Why would the GOP ride to the rescue?
You would think. This is the out the GOP has been waiting for. The only problem is the deplorables still get in line behind tRump. The GOP need his ship to sink to get them back in line.
Octavious wrote:I think the republicans are going to have to try REALLY hard to spin this to not make them complete shit holes in this case.
I don't. All they'll have to do is scream "LIBURLS DID IT!" without any sort of proof, facts, or justification, and their base will completely believe them, no questions asked.
That's simply the world we live in now...actual facts don't matter one bit.
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
Welcome back pre-ex exclusions. Welcome back coverage denial. Welcome an increased (yep, it's possible and now inevitable) rift between employer/union funded care and everyone else.
Remember, this is the guy who thought health insurance was $1/month.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General "No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton MYT
Eighteen states and Washington, D.C., signed onto the lawsuit filed Friday in federal court in California, according to Sarah Lovenheim, a spokeswoman for California Attorney General Xavier Becerra (D).
On Thursday night, Trump announced he would stop making the payments, which led to an outcry from critics saying he was sabotaging the health-care law.
The complaint will seek a temporary restraining order, preliminary injunction and permanent injunction requiring the cost-sharing reduction payments be made.
Can't wait to see what he has to say about this at some random early hour this weekend via Twitter.
They're up like 300% over the last 5 years and lost a point or to yesterday. He wishes he could "plunge" them.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General "No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton MYT
Polling indicates that Americans, including many Republicans, will indeed point the finger at the GOP. Sixty percent of Americans say they view Republicans as “responsible for problems’’ in the health law moving forward, according to an August survey by the nonprofit Kaiser Family Foundation.
...
Seventy-one percent of Americans want Trump and his administration to improve the current law and make it work, rather than undermine it, according to new polling from the Kaiser Family Foundation. Those feelings extend across the political spectrum: 74 percent of independents and 48 percent of self-identified Republicans want politicians to make the law work. By contrast, 43 percent of Republicans said they wanted the president to sabotage the ACA.
...
Ending the insurer payments will result in premium spikes for middle-class consumers who make too much money to qualify for any sort of subsidies under the health care law, said Robert Laszewski, a health policy consultant.
“Ironically, it is these unsubsidized folks who have complained the loudest about Obamacare’s big premiums and deductibles. They will now have even more to complain about,” Laszewski said in his analysis.
Meanwhile, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office predicted that ending the insurer payments would add $194 billion to the federal deficit over 10 years.
The CBO said cutting off the money would trigger premium increases of 20 percent in 2018 — an election year in which Republicans will be trying to maintain their majorities in the House and Senate.
Craig Garthwaite, a Republican health economist at Northwestern University’s Kellogg School of Management, who sees plenty of flaws in the health care law, rejected the notion that this is a strategic ploy by the administration to force Congress back to the bargaining table.
“There’s no other way to interpret the timing of this other than sabotage,” he said, pointing to the last-minute timing, just before the start of enrollment Nov. 1, with no time for Congress to act. “I think we need to stop thinking about this administration as crazy as a fox and just admit that they’re crazy. . . . They lost on repeal and replace, they’re upset about it and their solution is we’re just going to destroy the market.”
I've about given up on trying to apply reason to Trump's actions. There is no strategy, no plan, beyond (1) winning praise from his deplorables and (2) hating Bronco Bama.
43% of Republicans want the President to sabotage the ACA. Likely with no regard at all to the human cost of such a plan. What an excellent display of Christian values.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Yeah, we had a similar article in our NJ media as well, but it even went so far as detail the expected outcomes:
The action will affect the 244,000 New Jersey residents who bought coverage through the health exchange as of February. More than half, 126,000, will get increased federal subsidies to cover higher premiums.
The others would face increases as high as $1,000 to $2,000, said Ray Castro, director of health policy for New Jersey Policy Perspective, a progressive research group.
RunningMn9 wrote:43% of Republicans want the President to sabotage the ACA. Likely with no regard at all to the human cost of such a plan. What an excellent display of Christian values.
They believe the ACA is socialism, and socialism is tyranny. Fighting tyranny is heroically patriotic.
When experts explain that sabotaging the program hurts real people, they know that "experts" are socialist liars.
Well, "masking" may not be the right word, as it's hard to tell when Trump really intends to do anything. The key thing is that it appears that he's willing to sign a bipartisan "fix" bill.
This is a simultaneously sad and funny story about a small businessman who is being punished for doing what he thought was the right thing.
HOLYOKE — Business owners in Western Massachusetts apparently associate themselves with the 45th president at their peril.
Just ask Dave Ratner, owner of Dave’s Soda and Pet City, a small chain of shops selling the unlikely combination of pet supplies, birds, fish, and beverages for humans. Ratner attended President Trump’s signing Thursday of an executive order authorizing changes to the Affordable Care Act designed to create cheaper — and less comprehensive — health insurance plans. An Associated Press photograph of the event, with Ratner smiling broadly behind Trump, has come back to haunt him.
“It was 42 years of building a wonderful brand and having it destroyed in one day,” said Ratner, interviewed Sunday morning after what he terms “the worst two days of my life.”
Ratner has been excoriated on social media, and many customers are calling for store boycotts. He was not prepared for the strong reaction.
...
For those willing to hear it, here’s the back story: Ratner is an active member of the National Retail Federation, a trade association supportive of small businesses. For years through this federation, his company and others negotiated for cheaper group insurance rates, giving them some of the advantages large companies have. With the 2010 passage of the Affordable Care Act, this negotiating power vanished. Since then, he has trekked to Washington, D.C., annually, talking to anyone who will listen about how unfair that is.
Fast-forward to two weeks ago. Ratner received a call from the federation, inviting him to a ceremony in which Trump would sign an order restoring that power to small businesses.
“My first reaction was ‘Holy smokes, he’s doing something good,’ ” Ratner said. He didn’t think long or hard about whether to attend. He said he had no idea about the scope of the rollback of the ACA included in the executive order.
Trump’s order was swiftly followed Thursday by a second move, halting a subsidy that makes health coverage affordable for many low-income citizens — an action that drew a lawsuit from Massachusetts Attorney General Maura Healey.
“I absolutely abhor what he did, and I would not have been there had I known what was happening,” Ratner said.
“I absolutely abhor what he did, and I would not have been there had I known what was happening,” Ratner said.
Have a feeling this is going to become a common refrain. It's no excuse though.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General "No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton MYT
Holman wrote:They believe the ACA is socialism, and socialism is tyranny. Fighting tyranny is heroically patriotic.
If you ever need a good laugh, ask a Trumper to explain why they think the ACA is socialism and why they're against it.
Good laughs do not end in tears shed while thinking about for the future of humanity.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
“I absolutely abhor what he did, and I would not have been there had I known what was happening,” Ratner said.
Have a feeling this is going to become a common refrain. It's no excuse though.
He's lived in Western Massachusetts for how long, and he didn't think about what would happen being photographed with Trump, especially on this?
I do feel bad for him, though. Possibly destroyed his life's work accidentally for a silly photo op.
I have a hard time feeling bad for him. You associate that happily with an asshole you shouldn't be surprised when you get shit all over yourself.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
“I absolutely abhor what he did, and I would not have been there had I known what was happening,” Ratner said.
Have a feeling this is going to become a common refrain. It's no excuse though.
He's lived in Western Massachusetts for how long, and he didn't think about what would happen being photographed with Trump, especially on this?
I do feel bad for him, though. Possibly destroyed his life's work accidentally for a silly photo op.
I have a hard time feeling bad for him. You associate that happily with an asshole you shouldn't be surprised when you get shit all over yourself.
If he's guilty of something, it's naiveté. He comes off as a socially-responsible businessman who was trying to do the best thing for his employees, and he got conned by our Conman-in-Chief. Maybe it didn't even occur to him that the moment would be captured in a photo...because yeah, that's toxic in western MA, and he might never be able to live it down.
“I absolutely abhor what he did, and I would not have been there had I known what was happening,” Ratner said.
Have a feeling this is going to become a common refrain. It's no excuse though.
He's lived in Western Massachusetts for how long, and he didn't think about what would happen being photographed with Trump, especially on this?
I do feel bad for him, though. Possibly destroyed his life's work accidentally for a silly photo op.
I have a hard time feeling bad for him. You associate that happily with an asshole you shouldn't be surprised when you get shit all over yourself.
If he's guilty of something, it's naiveté. He comes off as a socially-responsible businessman who was trying to do the best thing for his employees, and he got conned by our Conman-in-Chief. Maybe it didn't even occur to him that the moment would be captured in a photo...because yeah, that's toxic in western MA, and he might never be able to live it down.
It's possible that this is a CYA explanation, of course. And even what he did support is also destructive of the ACA, even if he may support it as good for his business.
Yesterday, Trump said he supported the deal and would sign such a bill if presented to him. And overnight, well some people explained to him what it meant and today, not so much:
Trump's evolution on this issue over the last five days has been nothing short of jaw dropping.
He:
- Repeatedly publicly touted bipartisan talks (which, while he never explicitly detailed them, were always assumed to be the Alexander-Murray talks)
- Behind the scenes, told Alexander in several personal phone calls that he not only supported what he was negotiating, but urged him to reach a final deal. In fact, Alexander told CNN Tuesday Trump's personal urging was crucial to reaching a deal.
- Appeared to explicitly endorse the deal when asked, specifically, about the deal, in his news conference Tuesday
- Then he appeared to pull back Tuesday night at his Heritage Foundation speech. It was subtle, but immediately read by conservatives already opposed to the deal is a crucial sign, one the White House had been advising them was coming, according to several sources.
"I'm pleased the Democrats have finally responded to my call for them to take responsibility for their Obamacare disaster and work with Republicans to provide much-needed relief to the American people. While I commend the bipartisan work done by Sens. Alexander and Murray -- and I do commend it -- I continue to believe Congress must find a solution to the Obamacare mess instead of providing bailouts to insurance companies."
Idiot-in-chief.
Last edited by Grifman on Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:52 am, edited 3 times in total.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
“I absolutely abhor what he did, and I would not have been there had I known what was happening,” Ratner said.
Have a feeling this is going to become a common refrain. It's no excuse though.
He's lived in Western Massachusetts for how long, and he didn't think about what would happen being photographed with Trump, especially on this?
I do feel bad for him, though. Possibly destroyed his life's work accidentally for a silly photo op.
This is an example of what is wrong today with our hyper partisanship. Do I agree with people who support Trump? No. But I don't think their lives and businesses should be destroyed because of it. There are millions of them and millions of those that support Clinton. Should we all be seeking the destruction of the other? What if the shoe was on the other foot? Should a liberal be destroyed because they support something/someone conservatives find anathema? Where does it end? We'll never be able to work together if this sort of hyper partisanship continues.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
“I absolutely abhor what he did, and I would not have been there had I known what was happening,” Ratner said.
Have a feeling this is going to become a common refrain. It's no excuse though.
He's lived in Western Massachusetts for how long, and he didn't think about what would happen being photographed with Trump, especially on this?
I do feel bad for him, though. Possibly destroyed his life's work accidentally for a silly photo op.
I have a hard time feeling bad for him. You associate that happily with an asshole you shouldn't be surprised when you get shit all over yourself.
If he's guilty of something, it's naiveté. He comes off as a socially-responsible businessman who was trying to do the best thing for his employees, and he got conned by our Conman-in-Chief. Maybe it didn't even occur to him that the moment would be captured in a photo...because yeah, that's toxic in western MA, and he might never be able to live it down.
I have a really difficult time feeling sorry for anyone that buys into any piece of Trump. All he has done and said for his entire life is a huge lie. You buy into him you get what you bought and have fun with it but I won't feel bad when it blows up in your face. Ignorance and stupidity got him into office. It is beholden upon us all to hold both accountable.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
