The Former Trump Presidency Thread

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:54 pm

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:17 pm And since then we've learned that Drumpf almost certainly has no idea who Patton or MacArthur are, except that they existed at one time and people tell him they were important and good at their jobs.

He probably saw the movies.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:05 pm

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:17 pm And since then we've learned that Drumpf almost certainly has no idea who Patton or MacArthur are, except that they existed at one time and people tell him they were important and good at their jobs.

Trump knows Patton (George C. Scott) and MacArthur (Gregory Peck) because his dream generals each had their own Hollywood blockbusters.

Edit: What Alefroth said...

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:30 pm

Holman wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:26 pm "Character Counts Week" sure went by fast, didn't it?

It was Character Count Week. He's bucking for access to the new 280 character Tweet limit.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:23 pm

Trump issued an EO that some are interpreting as preparation for war. The interpretation some are claiming is that he will have the ability to call retired military personnel back into active service. I'm skeptical about this but they amended the EO for a reason and they aren't explaining it so far.

Edit: Looks like it is targeted at the Airforce *right now* - specifically to bring 1000 pilots back in from the private sector.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:53 pm

Alefroth wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:54 pm
GreenGoo wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:17 pm And since then we've learned that Drumpf almost certainly has no idea who Patton or MacArthur are, except that they existed at one time and people tell him they were important and good at their jobs.
He probably saw the movies.

He's probably aware that the movies exist. That's as far as I'm willing to go.

Daveman · Post by **Daveman** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:16 pm

malchior wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:23 pm Trump issued an EO that some are interpreting as preparation for war. The interpretation some are claiming is that he will have the ability to call retired military personnel back into active service. I'm skeptical about this but they amended the EO for a reason and they aren't explaining it so far.

Edit: Looks like it is targeted at the Airforce *right now* - specifically to bring 1000 pilots back in from the private sector.

*insert generic "Executive Order 66"/Emperor Trump joke here*

Not that this is at all funny.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:30 am

Trump would *love* a war of his own.

The cynical take is that he knows what 9/11 did for Bush's poll numbers, but the truth is probably just that he thinks he's bigger than FDR+Churchill and wants to prove it.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:33 am

Holman wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:30 am Trump would *love* a war of his own.
..... the truth is probably just that he thinks he's bigger than FDR+Churchill and wants to prove it.

Watch out, Angela Merkel.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:40 am

tgb wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:33 am
Holman wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:30 am Trump would *love* a war of his own.
..... the truth is probably just that he thinks he's bigger than FDR+Churchill and wants to prove it.
Watch out, Angela Merkel.

Well, it could solve his Russia problem.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:17 am

Holman wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:30 am Trump would *love* a war of his own.

The cynical take is that he knows what 9/11 did for Bush's poll numbers, but the truth is probably just that he thinks he's bigger than FDR+Churchill and wants to prove it.

Maybe that's his whole plan is to make America 'great' again and fix the economy. America's greatest recovery, and our rise to prominence were both results of a world war.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:45 am

He. Lies. About. Everything.

link

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:12 pm

Daveman wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:16 pm
malchior wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:23 pm Trump issued an EO that some are interpreting as preparation for war. The interpretation some are claiming is that he will have the ability to call retired military personnel back into active service. I'm skeptical about this but they amended the EO for a reason and they aren't explaining it so far.

Edit: Looks like it is targeted at the Airforce *right now* - specifically to bring 1000 pilots back in from the private sector.
*insert generic "Executive Order 66"/Emperor Trump joke here*

Not that this is at all funny.

I wonder if the Trump administration expects that Korea Part Deux will involve an intensive air phase...

WonkVJ wrote:Admin source tells me "Everyone wants 'preemptive war' now except for Mattis." Normal Korea experts have no idea how serious this is

As is noted in the twitter thread, when this administration says "preemptive war" they actually mean "preventative war."

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:35 pm

Holman wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:45 am He. Lies. About. Everything.

link

And... the WH this week has been rush-shipping condolence letters to families of past casualties to try to make Trump's claim true.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:38 am

I've just now caught up with the news on Niger and Chad... whoa.

In short:

--Chad's competent and experienced military has been the mainstay of the fight against Islamist extremism in Western Africa, and they have been a crucial ally to ongoing U.S. and French efforts in the region.

--In September, Chad was added to the latest version of Trump's travel ban. This was seen as inexplicable and dangerous at the time.

--Chad predictably responded by withdrawing its military presence in Niger. Weeks later, U.S. forces acting on poor intelligence and without support in place were ambushed by ISIS fighters there. It's very possible that Chadian presence and patrols would have improved the intel or made the ISIS movements impossible as they had in the past.

--It turns out that the reason for Chad's inclusion on the travel ban and the alienation of our most important local ally in the region was Trumpean incompetence and bullshit.

--(There's also the fact that the Chadian government was involved in an expensive and threatening financial dispute with Exxon when Tillerson was company president, but I'm sure the fact that he is now Secretary of State and that the ban turned on passport issues is purely coincidental.)

--This is looking more and more like the reason Trump never mentioned the soldiers killed in Niger until reporters pressed him. He didn't want this story to develop into Trump Benghazi and thought it would just go away.

--Trey Gowdy is all over this, right? Right?

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:39 pm

Wow, I realized it was bad but not Trump inflicted. No wonder they don't want anyone questioning it.

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:47 pm

Thanks for the tldr version!

But Benghazi

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:34 pm

Trumpghazi will go no where. Like everything else he does wrong. He’ll just distract us with more stupidity while his base only believes what he tweets them to believe.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:09 pm

The comparison to Benghazi is forced, at best, and liberals would be ill-advised to force it. While these deaths raise some valid questions about our operations in Niger, nobody (AFAIK) is charging that presidential action or inaction led directly to preventable deaths or that there was a coverup attempt -- just that honey badger don't give a shit. Which is hardly a revelation. They knew what they signed up for.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:01 pm

Kraken wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:09 pm The comparison to Benghazi is forced, at best, and liberals would be ill-advised to force it. While these deaths raise some valid questions about our operations in Niger, nobody (AFAIK) is charging that presidential action or inaction led directly to preventable deaths or that there was a coverup attempt -- just that honey badger don't give a shit. Which is hardly a revelation. They knew what they signed up for.

No, but it's its own issue: trashing yet another important alliance, destabilizing a whole region, and possibly throwing ongoing operations (including those involving the dead green berets) into immediate confusion, all for no good reason whatsoever.

There are real costs to incompetence. Trump's idiocy isn't the punchline; it's the setup.

I'm sure the wars with NK and Iran will go just great, though.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:11 pm

RunningMn9 wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:34 pm Trumpghazi will go no where. Like everything else he does wrong. He’ll just distract us with more stupidity while his base only believes what he tweets them to believe.

Found on Facebook:

Trump is a Denial of Service (DDoS) attack on democracy. There are so many jaw-dropping scandals we can’t focus on any single one.

Mookee · Post by **Mookee** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:25 am

Holman wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:38 am --Chad predictably responded by withdrawing its military presence in Niger. Weeks later, U.S. forces acting on poor intelligence and without support in place were ambushed by ISIS fighters there. It's very possible that Chadian presence and patrols would have improved the intel or made the ISIS movements impossible as they had in the past.

One piece of this I don’t get or haven’t heard explained: Why does Chad’s inclusion on the travel ban mean they withdraw from Niger? Like why specifically are those 2 things connected?

Daveman · Post by **Daveman** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:49 am

Mookee wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:25 am
Holman wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:38 am --Chad predictably responded by withdrawing its military presence in Niger. Weeks later, U.S. forces acting on poor intelligence and without support in place were ambushed by ISIS fighters there. It's very possible that Chadian presence and patrols would have improved the intel or made the ISIS movements impossible as they had in the past.
One piece of this I don’t get or haven’t heard explained: Why does Chad’s inclusion on the travel ban mean they withdraw from Niger? Like why specifically are those 2 things connected?

They've been allies in the fight against ISIS and felt insulted by the travel ban so they're scaling back their support. If a piece I read elsewhere is correct, they were added to the ban for a very technical/picky point as well... they don't use a certain type of paper for passports that the US started expecting to be used (presumably to combat counterfeiting) and were given so many days to correct it but haven't.

Mookee · Post by **Mookee** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:54 am

Daveman wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:49 am
Mookee wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:25 am
Holman wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:38 am --Chad predictably responded by withdrawing its military presence in Niger. Weeks later, U.S. forces acting on poor intelligence and without support in place were ambushed by ISIS fighters there. It's very possible that Chadian presence and patrols would have improved the intel or made the ISIS movements impossible as they had in the past.
One piece of this I don’t get or haven’t heard explained: Why does Chad’s inclusion on the travel ban mean they withdraw from Niger? Like why specifically are those 2 things connected?
They've been allies in the fight against ISIS and felt insulted by the travel ban so they're scaling back their support. If a piece I read elsewhere is correct, they were added to the ban for a very technical/picky point as well... they don't use a certain type of paper for passports that the US started expecting to be used (presumably to combat counterfeiting) and were given so many days to correct it but haven't.

Thanks!

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:58 am

In a similar vein, the US invited the commander of the Indonesian armed forces to a conference, then denied him entry to the country. This is what it looks like when the ship of state is rudderless.

Indonesia intends to send a diplomatic note to the U.S. secretary of state and summon Washington’s deputy ambassador in Jakarta to explain why the head of its military was denied entry to the United States, Indonesian officials said on Sunday.

Armed Forces Commander General Gatot Nurmantyo was about to board a flight on Saturday when the airline informed him that the U.S. Customs and Border Protection had denied him entry, military spokesman Wuryanto told a news conference in Jakarta.

Nurmantyo was going to the United States at the invitation of General Joseph F. Dunford Jr., chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, to attend a Chiefs of Defense Conference on Countering Violent Extremism being held in Washington on Oct. 23-24, Wuryanto said.

It was not clear why he was stopped from entering the United States, Wuryanto said, adding that the general did not have any problem during his visit to the United States in February 2016.

“We’ve asked for clarification to the U.S., to the Department of State as well as the embassy in Jakarta and until now we’re still waiting for that clarification,” Indonesia’s Foreign Affairs Minister Retno Marsudi told Reuters.

The ministry’s spokesman Arrmanatha Nasir earlier said Indonesia’s embassy in Washington was to send a diplomatic note to the U.S. secretary of state demanding explanation for the incident.The ministry will also summon the U.S. deputy ambassador in Jakarta on Monday to seek explanation, Nasir said, adding that the ambassador is presently not in Indonesia.

The U.S. embassy in Jakarta said in a statement it was in touch with Nurmantyo’s staff to facilitate his travel, but did not explain further.

“U.S. Ambassador Joseph Donovan has apologized to Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi for any inconvenience to General Gatot,” the embassy wrote. “We remain committed to our Strategic Partnership with Indonesia as a way to deliver security and prosperity to both our nations and peoples.”

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:59 am

Daveman wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:49 am
Mookee wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:25 am
Holman wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:38 am --Chad predictably responded by withdrawing its military presence in Niger. Weeks later, U.S. forces acting on poor intelligence and without support in place were ambushed by ISIS fighters there. It's very possible that Chadian presence and patrols would have improved the intel or made the ISIS movements impossible as they had in the past.
One piece of this I don’t get or haven’t heard explained: Why does Chad’s inclusion on the travel ban mean they withdraw from Niger? Like why specifically are those 2 things connected?
They've been allies in the fight against ISIS and felt insulted by the travel ban so they're scaling back their support. If a piece I read elsewhere is correct, they were added to the ban for a very technical/picky point as well... they don't use a certain type of paper for passports that the US started expecting to be used (presumably to combat counterfeiting) and were given so many days to correct it but haven't.

Diplomacy is a subtle, nuanced game. Our new diplomatic capability, after being gutted, is about as subtle as a 12 gauge shotgun. Being wielded by a screaming harpy.

I know the Trump line is that diplomacy is a sign of weakness. But in reality, it allows you to get away with things like shows of strength and travel bans with fewer consequences.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:09 am

On the grand scheme of things, we were always going to hit a point where the US lost its leadership in the world. To be fair, having it squandered by an egocentric tool is preferable to a massive disaster. But of course, that one's still on the table.

Victoria Raverna · Post by **Victoria Raverna** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:14 am

Max Peck wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:58 am In a similar vein, the US invited the commander of the Indonesian armed forces to a conference, then denied him entry to the country. This is what it looks like when the ship of state is rudderless.
Indonesia intends to send a diplomatic note to the U.S. secretary of state and summon Washington’s deputy ambassador in Jakarta to explain why the head of its military was denied entry to the United States, Indonesian officials said on Sunday.

Armed Forces Commander General Gatot Nurmantyo was about to board a flight on Saturday when the airline informed him that the U.S. Customs and Border Protection had denied him entry, military spokesman Wuryanto told a news conference in Jakarta.

Nurmantyo was going to the United States at the invitation of General Joseph F. Dunford Jr., chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, to attend a Chiefs of Defense Conference on Countering Violent Extremism being held in Washington on Oct. 23-24, Wuryanto said.

It was not clear why he was stopped from entering the United States, Wuryanto said, adding that the general did not have any problem during his visit to the United States in February 2016.

“We’ve asked for clarification to the U.S., to the Department of State as well as the embassy in Jakarta and until now we’re still waiting for that clarification,” Indonesia’s Foreign Affairs Minister Retno Marsudi told Reuters.

The ministry’s spokesman Arrmanatha Nasir earlier said Indonesia’s embassy in Washington was to send a diplomatic note to the U.S. secretary of state demanding explanation for the incident.The ministry will also summon the U.S. deputy ambassador in Jakarta on Monday to seek explanation, Nasir said, adding that the ambassador is presently not in Indonesia.

The U.S. embassy in Jakarta said in a statement it was in touch with Nurmantyo’s staff to facilitate his travel, but did not explain further.

“U.S. Ambassador Joseph Donovan has apologized to Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi for any inconvenience to General Gatot,” the embassy wrote. “We remain committed to our Strategic Partnership with Indonesia as a way to deliver security and prosperity to both our nations and peoples.”

This can probably help the general in his bid for to become president of Indonesia.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:45 am

Good start to the week. This morning began with the President calling the widow of Sgt. Johnson a liar. Polls show that Clinton voters think his comments were inappropriate and Trump voters don't think he said what Kelly confirmed he said, the widow says he said, or the Congresswoman said he said. Also Trumps assault on the media...is working. 46% of Americans think that major outlets are pushing fake news. That bleeds outside of the Trump base. We are in deep, deep shit.

Edit: Oh and the US just revoked the visa of a top Putin critic in coordination with the Russians adding him to an interpol watch list. WTF is going on?

Edit2: Here is a NY Times piece giving the background on this - how the Russians are peddling an insane conspiracy theory to go after the guy who put the thumbscrews on Russian oligarchs money.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:55 am

It's worth watching the full interview with Myeshia Johnson.
https://twitter.com/DrTGIF/status/922467598121558016

(I'm not sure how to post a tweet anymore with the new forum software)

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:03 am

"46% of Americans think that major outlets are pushing fake news." Where is this coming from aside from Trump? I haven't had time to verify if he's just making shit up again. So now he's gotten into twitter battles with TWO gold star families. MAGA!

*Edit* I found it. Holy crap we are a collection of idiots. I'm losing my sense of caring. I think we're just f'd and have to hope we can survive the next 3 years. If he somehow gets re-elected I will just lose all hope.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:24 am

Need some background on that 46% number. How do they define "fake news"? What is a "major outlet"?

I think that they all occasionally misreport and FOX at least actively promotes non-factual stories sometimes. That birther nonsense was "news", right?

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:35 am

malchior wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:45 am

Edit: Oh and the US just revoked the visa of a top Putin critic in coordination with the Russians adding him to an interpol watch list. WTF is going on?

Edit2: Here is a NY Times piece giving the background on this - how the Russians are peddling an insane conspiracy theory to go after the guy who put the thumbscrews on Russian oligarchs money.

Remember the "adoption" meetings?

In response to U.S. passage of the Magnitsky Act, Russia cut off the U.S. adoption of Russian children — which led to a meeting during last year's presidential campaign between a Moscow lawyer and representatives of the Trump campaign at Trump Tower.

That bullshit about Trump being unbuyable because he is rich is so laughable. He's probably more buyable because he's so transparently envious of those who are richer than he is.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:45 am

Captain Caveman wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:55 am It's worth watching the full interview with Myeshia Johnson.
https://twitter.com/DrTGIF/status/922467598121558016

(I'm not sure how to post a tweet anymore with the new forum software)

Wow, that's tough. I can't imagine what she's going through, even without the Orange Menace involved. His tweet this morning:

I had a very respectful conversation with the widow of Sgt. La David Johnson, and spoke his name from beginning, without hesitation!

The fact that Trump continues to call her a liar is infuriating. I don't really care what was said at this point, what's important is what she heard. Here, allow me try this Presidenting thing again:

"I apologize if my comments to Ms. Johnson did not convey the message I intended. I assure her that myself - and all the American people - are eternally grateful for her husband's service and sacrifice, and pledge our love and support to her during this difficult time."

See, not so fucking hard, is it?

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:49 am

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:45 am
Captain Caveman wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:55 am It's worth watching the full interview with Myeshia Johnson.
https://twitter.com/DrTGIF/status/922467598121558016

(I'm not sure how to post a tweet anymore with the new forum software)
Wow, that's tough. I can't imagine what she's going through, even without the Orange Menace involved. His tweet this morning:

I had a very respectful conversation with the widow of Sgt. La David Johnson, and spoke his name from beginning, without hesitation!
The fact that Trump continues to call her a liar is infuriating. I don't really care what was said at this point, what's important is what she heard. Here, allow me try this Presidenting thing again:

"I apologize if my comments to Ms. Johnson did not convey the message I intended. I assure her that myself - and all the American people - are eternally grateful for her husband's service and sacrifice, and pledge our love and support to her during this difficult time."

See, not so fucking hard, is it?

Apologies are for losers. That's not winning, that's losing. Loser. It's not about the American people, it's about Trump. And he's winner.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:49 am

Nuclear Bombers Poised to Return to 24-Hour Alert After Trump Recalls Retired Pilots

The U.S. Air Force is preparing for nuclear armed B-52 bombers to be put back on 24-hour alert for the first time in 25 years as tensions rise between North Korea and President Donald Trump.

“I look at it more as not planning for any specific event, but more for the reality of the global situation we find ourselves in and how we ensure we’re prepared going forward,” General David Goldfein, Air Force chief of staff, told Defense One in an interview Sunday.

While the order to have the bombers on alert hasn’t been given by the heads of U.S. Strategic Command or U.S. Northern Command, Gen. Goldfein—a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff—said that in the current political climate the Air Force anticipates that it might come. “This is yet one more step in ensuring that we’re prepared,” he said of the preparations.

No doubt just an abundance of caution.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:52 am

Broken arrow.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:04 pm

Just found this fun story in my backlog -- Trump is offered to pay for his staffers' legal bills due to investigations. Totally legit conduct for a President, right?

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:24 pm

malchior wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:04 pm Just found this fun story in my backlog -- Trump is offered to pay for his staffers' legal bills due to investigations. Totally legit conduct for a President, right?

Trump offering and Trump actually doing has no real world correlation. He's "offered" to pay other lawyers, too. It's a wonder any of them would work with him.

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:55 pm

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:22 pm

Well except that it never has happened with a President before. Breaking new ground!