The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:22 am

Pyperkub wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:10 am
tgb wrote:I think Popadopoulis will be the key to bringing the Trump Crime Syndicate down. Now there's talk that the FBI had him wearing a wire. He may very well be remembered as this administration's John Dean.

Also if lying to the FBI is a convictable offense, isn't that enough to start impeachment hearings? I assume everyone in the WH has lied to them one time or another.
I think Mueller really wants Manafort to flip as it sounds like he had to file now due to statute of limitations restrictions on some of the charges and he wanted as much leverage as possible on him. If that's the case, it may be that he thinks he needs him to corroborate Papadopoulos's testimony.

I wonder how much control Mueller (vs. the judge) on the timing of the unsealing of the indictment / plea of Papadapolous. If that was scheduled to happen yesterday independent of Manafort, I imagine that could've driven the timing too. If Papadapolous was unsealed without Manafort getting charged, Trumpworld probably would've pushed hard on the only indictment being of an unknown (to the public) guy and on obstructing the investigation (not something illegal before the investigation started).

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:28 am

I think we have to look beyond the obvious here. Mueller had a guilty plea on October 5th and kept it secret. If he wanted to flip Manafort--if he hasn't already-- then he didn't need to openly have him surrender. This also undermines the statute of limitation argument as a reason to announce. AFAIK a sealed indictment would have started that clock. Mueller did what he did yesterday for a reason. Whether that was to turn the screws on someone else or put pressure on the WH is anyone's guess right now but there is a lot more going on under the surface.

El Guapo wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:22 amI wonder how much control Mueller (vs. the judge) on the timing of the unsealing of the indictment / plea of Papadapolous.

This is a decent reason as well but I'd imagine the judge would give great deference to the investigation to determine when to unseal indictments.

Edit: Also fun to see Trump melting down that the Podesta story was the biggest story yesterday. DT is Mueller's best ally in a way. If my co-conspirator in a series of crimes against the United States was this fucking stupid I'd be bee-lining to the Special Counsel tout suite to get in line for my deal *early*.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:11 am

El Guapo wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:04 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:59 am
Rip wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:08 am It is a nothingburger.

http://nypost.com/2017/10/30/robert-mue ... id-intern/

NY Post Op-Ed piece from devoted Trump apologist.
Just dead-ends that do nothing to put Trump in jeopardy.
Think I'll just wait and see rather than following this guy's line.
I dunno, I heard from a Trump insider that Trump relied on Papadopolous (and Carter Page) as a top foreign policy adviser during the campaign.

So? Sometimes people with close ties to the White House do criminal things, or in this case don't but lie to the FBI anyway about it for some strange reason.

At least he wasn't the actual National Security Advisor.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:15 am

Rip wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:11 am At least he wasn't the actual National Security Advisor.

FTFY.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:21 am

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:27 am

Also a reminder that Carter Page was also listed by Trump in that WaPo campaign interview as a top foreign policy adviser that he listens to (right before he lists Papadapolous).

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:45 am

Stupid Watergate

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:11 pm

tgb wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:47 am I think Popadopoulis will be the key to bringing the Trump Crime Syndicate down. Now there's talk that the FBI had him wearing a wire. He may very well be remembered as this administration's John Dean.

Also if lying to the FBI is a convictable offense, isn't that enough to start impeachment hearings? I assume everyone in the WH has lied to them one time or another.

The emolument violations are already sufficient grounds for impeachment. What matters is accumulating such overwhelming charges that the House has no choice but to get on board.

At some point in the coming months the GOP is going to openly fracture between Trump loyalists and the establishment, who are only playing dumb out of fear of the fringe that has become their base. They will turn when they realize that there aren't enough deplorables to keep them in power come next November.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:24 pm

Kraken wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:11 pm there aren't enough deplorables to keep them in power come next November.

You sound awfully confident. I am much less so.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:29 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:24 pm
Kraken wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:11 pm there aren't enough deplorables to keep them in power come next November.
You sound awfully confident. I am much less so.

You do understand that "deplorables" only refers to a small segment of Trump supporters. A majority of them are everyday Republicans and people that either enjoy the show, dislike Clinton, and/or would vote Republican no matter what. In the same way that only a small minority of Dems are commies and the majority are everyday people that would vote Democrat no matter what.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:32 pm

Rip wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:09 am No the bucks stop at Trump. It is the other shit that stops somewhere else.

Yeah...Jared, Donald Jr., Ivanka...but not Tiffany. She's not really a Trump.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:30 pm

Moliere wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:29 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:24 pm
Kraken wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:11 pm there aren't enough deplorables to keep them in power come next November.
You sound awfully confident. I am much less so.
You do understand that "deplorables" only refers to a small segment of Trump supporters. A majority of them are everyday Republicans and people that either enjoy the show, dislike Clinton, and/or would vote Republican no matter what. In the same way that only a small minority of Dems are commies and the majority are everyday people that would vote Democrat no matter what.

Peel away the establishment Republicans and their traditional power blocs, and you're mostly left with deplorables. Clinton's not on the ballot next November so they can't count on keeping those haters, either.

Much will depend on the fate of their tax package. If the GOP can't ram that through, they might be happy to pin the blame on Trump, especially if it looks like he's going down anyway.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:38 pm

I think he's screwed either way with his tax plan. If it's anything like what they have planned people will flip out if their taxes go up. If nothing gets passed he looks useless. I guess it's possible a large majority don't get screwed by the plan, but I'm having a hard time thinking they can totally spin their way out of that one.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:49 pm

Octavious wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:38 pm I think he's screwed either way with his tax plan. If it's anything like what they have planned people will flip out if their taxes go up. If nothing gets passed he looks useless. I guess it's possible a large majority don't get screwed by the plan, but I'm having a hard time thinking they can totally spin their way out of that one.

I can't speak for the masses, in general, but my old man is refusing to look the other way on Trump based on the tax plan. He's furious. They finally get to him when they show how they want to modify his pocket book and the pocket books of his children and grand children and great grand children... Great grand children? What the hell is up with that?

Edit: And then I see this asinine eye roll worthy Sarah Huckabee metaphor on how the poor sponge off the rich because paying taxes is like splitting a bar tab and, nope, they don't seem to care that they are getting screwed.... yet....

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:22 pm

El Guapo wrote:
tgb wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:47 am I think Popadopoulis will be the key to bringing the Trump Crime Syndicate down. Now there's talk that the FBI had him wearing a wire. He may very well be remembered as this administration's John Dean.
Is that confirmed anywhere? I would assume that they would have tried that at least, and what they could've gotten on that could easily be super damning.

I don't believe confirmed. It started on Twitter with Daniel Dale (I think) saying he'd talked to a former federal prosecutor about some language in the indictment. That person said that that language has been used in the past to describe anyone wearing a wire. But nothing directly saying he had in this case.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:49 pm

tjg_marantz wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:22 pm
El Guapo wrote:
tgb wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:47 am I think Popadopoulis will be the key to bringing the Trump Crime Syndicate down. Now there's talk that the FBI had him wearing a wire. He may very well be remembered as this administration's John Dean.
Is that confirmed anywhere? I would assume that they would have tried that at least, and what they could've gotten on that could easily be super damning.
I don't believe confirmed. It started on Twitter with Daniel Dale (I think) saying he'd talked to a former federal prosecutor about some language in the indictment. That person said that that language has been used in the past to describe anyone wearing a wire. But nothing directly saying he had in this case.

It's hard to imagine that they wouldn't try it, unless they had some reason to know that the Trump associates knew of his arrest / cooperation fairly early on.

We'll see, I guess.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:16 pm

USA Today has published a partial list of false statements made by the Trump administration regarding their ties to Russia. You might want to pull up a chair - it's a lengthy article.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:38 pm

I'll only read it if it's in inforgraphic form.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:48 pm

Is that the same as an uncited bumper sticker post on social media? Because that's my absolute favorite sourcing ever.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:09 pm

hepcat wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:32 pm
Rip wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:09 am No the bucks stop at Trump. It is the other shit that stops somewhere else.
Yeah...Jared, Donald Jr., Ivanka...but not Tiffany. She's not really a Trump.

In that case she would seem to be the lucky one. Should be funny when she and Barron are the last ones standing.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:16 pm

Rip wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:09 pm
hepcat wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:32 pm
Rip wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:09 am No the bucks stop at Trump. It is the other shit that stops somewhere else.
Yeah...Jared, Donald Jr., Ivanka...but not Tiffany. She's not really a Trump.
In that case she would seem to be the lucky one. Should be funny when she and Barron are the last ones standing.

If this were a movie she would be my prime suspect for who is behind all of this mess. I can just imagine the big reveal at the end with Tiffany as the evil mastermind.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:51 pm

Moliere wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:16 pm
If this were a movie

It will be eventually.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:31 pm

Well...video evidence at least.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:45 pm

Awesome. Just to Be Clear, the Witch-King of Angmar Was an Insignificant Volunteer in the Great Army of the Dark Lord Sauron:

Thank you for joining us today, Middle-earth media. I’d like to start today’s briefing by addressing the recent news of the Witch-King’s indictment. The Witch-King of Angmar was an extremely minor cog within the Ringwraith organization and has never had, nor currently has, a relationship with Lord Sauron. Despite all of the evidence to the contrary, please believe me when I say the Witch-King was basically an unpaid summer intern in Mordor during last year’s campaign.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:58 pm

Holman wrote: Thu May 18, 2017 3:51 pm WikiLeaks is now attacking Mueller, claiming to have documentation of him delivering "stolen uranium" to Russia in 2009.

Legitimate context: apparently the documents have to do with shipments of Uranium seized by U.S. officials in Georgia, with samples delivered to Russia for analysis. But WikiLeaks is spinning it for pure suspicion.

Someone isn't happy with the way TrumpRussia has turned.

Is there any mention in those documents of how much he’s paid for rugs at any point? ‘Cause if it’s below a mil I’m not impressed.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:00 pm

Awesome.

Biyobi · Post by **Biyobi** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:01 am

hepcat wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:31 pm Well...video evidence at least.

Are you kidding? Trump is totally a role for the next generation's Kevin Costner. A man very sincere in his total buffoonery.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:54 pm

Anyone remember this exchange?:

In his sworn testimony during his confirmation hearing in January, Sessions was asked by Senator Al Franken, “If there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign, what will you do?” Sessions responded: “Senator Franken, I’m not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I didn’t have—did not have communications with the Russians, and I’m unable to comment on it.”

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:22 pm

from qt3/reddit, a hypothetical timeline:

The Papadopoulos e-mails paint a very complete picture together with the dossier and with the known information:

In April, Papadopoulos went to London and discussed the hacked e-mails with the professor, a month before anyone else knew about them
He tries to get the campaign to send someone there to deal with Putin. Manafort says that it will have to be someone low-level, not Trump.
In July, they send Carter Page to Moscow. He makes a deal with Putin: Putin gets sanctions relief, Trump gets election help and a brokerage fee of the sale of the 19% stake in Rosneft (according to the dossier). Putin says he wants a personal confirmation from Trump that the deal is a go.
On July 27, Trump looks into the camera and says, “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find Hillary Clinton’s 30,000 e-mails.” That was the ‘yes.’
December: 19.5% of Rosneft vanishes in a sell-off to a group of anonymous shell corporations.

Mueller would need:

1. Corroboration via Manafort/Page/Other
2. Rosneft money trail.

He may already have both and been able to evaluate it appropriately (Page/Other could be a sealed indictment collecting further information in an ongoing fashion).

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:46 pm

I don’t see anything about this 19.5% Rosneft sell off anywhere.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:26 pm

Scoop20906 wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:46 pm I don’t see anything about this 19.5% Rosneft sell off anywhere.

Reuters in January: How Russia sold its oil jewel: without saying who bought it.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:53 pm

link

Carter Page reportedly testified today that he told Jeff Sessions he was traveling to Russia during the election.

That's lying under oath for Jeff Sessions then.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:57 pm

Holman wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:53 pmThat's lying under oath for Jeff Sessions then.

I've lost track. Is that two or three times now? When this first started, I was convinced they were smarter than everyone else in the room. I mean, they had to be in order to be so brazen. Now I'm pretty sure they're all idiots.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:59 pm

It's not lying if he can't recall, right? I mean, his memory's no Donald Trump.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:22 pm

Holman wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:53 pm
That's lying under oath for Jeff Sessions then.

And wasn't that even something Sessions wasn't even asked about, or am I thinking of something else?

Edit: looking at the question/answer, I guess I was thinking of something else Sessions or someone else said during the hearing.

Freyland · Post by **Freyland** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:50 pm

Holman wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:53 pm
link
Carter Page reportedly testified today that he told Jeff Sessions he was traveling to Russia during the election.
That's lying under oath for Jeff Sessions then.

You, Suh, have offended mah honarr

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:12 pm

Senator Al Franken has some questions for Jeff Sessions. It's an 8 page nothingburger, so pour yourself a drink and soak it all in.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:47 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:12 pm Senator Al Franken has some questions for Jeff Sessions. It's an 8 page nothingburger, so pour yourself a drink and soak it all in.

Well worth a read. In a normal universe Sessions would be resigning. In our bleak one we only have one Senator sending a letter.

...Well perhaps Mueller has his eye on the AG too.

Freyland · Post by **Freyland** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:20 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:12 pm Senator Al Franken has some questions for Jeff Sessions. It's an 8 page nothingburger, so pour yourself a drink and soak it all in.

Lord I hate essay questions.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:43 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:12 pm Senator Al Franken has some questions for Jeff Sessions. It's an 8 page nothingburger, so pour yourself a drink and soak it all in.

That last bullet point is a real zinger. "Oh btw, anything else you want to come clean about?"

And as someone who spent this afternoon copy editing a sketchy writer, I couldn't help but notice that this document is refreshingly flawless in grammar and style. Hats off to Franken's editor.