The Former Trump Presidency Thread

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:49 pm

Next he'll go on about how great Trump is for wireline telephones and VHS tapes...

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:29 pm

pr0ner wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:21 pm Trump is bleating about coal production being up this year on Twitter. Oy.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 7708496897

This would ordinarily belong in the Global Warming thread, but in light of that...

Global warming is hurting people’s health a bit more than previously thought, but there is hope that the Earth — and populations — can heal if the planet kicks its coal habit, a group of doctors and other researchers said.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:56 pm

It is totally Trump. He is trixsy and made coal prices fall well below the price of natural gas.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:59 pm

http://nypost.com/2017/10/31/kelly-is-r ... ert-e-lee/

Sums up my views on the "controversy".

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:06 pm

There's media for everyone. Good on you to find one that tells you your opinion is the right opinion.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:09 pm

Rip wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:59 pm http://nypost.com/2017/10/31/kelly-is-r ... ert-e-lee/

Sums up my views on the "controversy".

We rob one group of citizens of their heritage to please another.

How dare them uppity blacks get upset that good ol’ boys wanna celebrate slavery.

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:11 pm

Racists gonna racist.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:15 pm

We rob one group of citizens of their heritage to please another.

Does that really bother you? If so, maybe you might dare to take a knee if someone ever killed your group over it.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:18 pm

hepcat wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:09 pm
Rip wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:59 pm http://nypost.com/2017/10/31/kelly-is-r ... ert-e-lee/

Sums up my views on the "controversy".

We rob one group of citizens of their heritage to please another.
How dare them uppity blacks get upset that good ol’ boys wanna celebrate slavery.

Who said anything about celebrating.

Do you consider Memorial Day and Veterans Day celebrations? I don't.

We are simply talking about discussing history in a context that recognizes the realities of the day.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:22 pm

Rip wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:59 pm http://nypost.com/2017/10/31/kelly-is-r ... ert-e-lee/

Sums up my views on the "controversy".

FTFA

It’s true that those statues didn’t go up right away. The South lay impoverished. But monuments were erected as soon as the shattered South could raise the funds.

The majority of which just happened to be exacrtly during the time African Americans were fighting to gain civil rights. Incredible!

Fuck off with that nonsense.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:22 pm

While your attempt at trying to draw a false analogy would make Trump beam with pride, it’s not really the point, is it? Also, if you don’t think those folks flying confederate flags at the rallies weren’t celebrating then you’re also near Hannity levels of self delusion.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:24 pm

It’s sad but I don’t believe you care one whit about those statues. If Obama or Hillary said the same thing would you spend a second bemoaning the attack on them?
Sorry, you made your bed. Show some real compassion someday and I will spend a second caring.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

geezer · Post by **geezer** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:29 pm

Rip wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:18 pm
hepcat wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:09 pm
Rip wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:59 pm http://nypost.com/2017/10/31/kelly-is-r ... ert-e-lee/

Sums up my views on the "controversy".

We rob one group of citizens of their heritage to please another.
How dare them uppity blacks get upset that good ol’ boys wanna celebrate slavery.

Who said anything about celebrating.

Do you consider Memorial Day and Veterans Day celebrations? I don't.

We are simply talking about discussing history in a context that recognizes the realities of the day.

Placing them in the context of their times is appropriate, as is understanding that we can't assign the motivations of 160 years ago within the framework of today and hope to have an accurate picture of the reason they acted as they did. That said, there's no reason to continue to honor supporters of behavior that we now understand to be barbaric.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:29 pm

hepcat wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:22 pm While your attempt at trying to draw a false analogy would make Trump beam with pride, it’s not really the point, is it? Also, if you don’t think those folks flying confederate flags at the rallies weren’t celebrating then you’re also near Hannity levels of self delusion.

I have no interest in them. I am simply saying that Kelly wasn't wrong.

People that go to those rallies flying their confederate flags are stupid douchebags. That is undeniable.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:30 pm

Re: the terrorist attack in NYC today. The asshole has been here 7 years. Good luck predicting radicalization over a 7 year period you fucking moron.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 5393928199

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:31 pm

Rip wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:29 pmI have no interest in them. I am simply saying that Kelly wasn't wrong.

Nope. You're wrong on that one.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:40 pm

Trump orders people to do something. They laugh and wait for an adult to chime in. This is getting tiresome. Just be quiet you orange worm.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:41 pm

geezer wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:29 pm
Rip wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:18 pm
hepcat wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:09 pm
Rip wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:59 pm http://nypost.com/2017/10/31/kelly-is-r ... ert-e-lee/

Sums up my views on the "controversy".

We rob one group of citizens of their heritage to please another.
How dare them uppity blacks get upset that good ol’ boys wanna celebrate slavery.

Who said anything about celebrating.

Do you consider Memorial Day and Veterans Day celebrations? I don't.

We are simply talking about discussing history in a context that recognizes the realities of the day.
Placing them in the context of their times is appropriate, as is understanding that we can't assign the motivations of 160 years ago within the framework of today and hope to have an accurate picture of the reason they acted as they did. That said, there's no reason to continue to honor supporters of behavior that we now understand to be barbaric.

There is no reason to start condemning them either. There is a lot more depth to the issues of the times as well as the reasonings of individuals for why they did or didn't do certain things. That would be like demonizing everyone who ever ate a hamburger if in the future eating meat was viewed as barbaric. It isn't fair or productive to attempt to view our ancestors through these lenses. It is hard to imagine their reality, it would be impossible for them to imagine ours.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:43 pm

You could use the same argument in defense of ISIS you know.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:08 pm

Lee was perhaps honorable for his time but Lee owned humans. He waged war to protect his ability to own human slaves.

You and your aggrieved chief of staff think it is a shame that the North and the South couldn’t find a compromise. What would that compromise have been??

Ok. We agree we will limit our ability to enslaved human to only 10 but the children don’t count towards that. We can keep as many children in chains as possible.

Do you even smell the bile you spout?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:10 pm

Oh and Lee was a loser. We don’t like losers. We like winners.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:21 pm

Rip wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:41 pm There is no reason to start condemning them either. There is a lot more depth to the issues of the times

Lee and all the other confederates committed treason. It was treason in 1861 and it's treason today.

Why would we honor those who took up arms against our country?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:37 pm

Because now they represent opposition to liberals and Democrats? If Black Lives Matter comes out against Hillary Clinton tomorrow, Rip will be their loudest supporter.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:06 am

Exodor wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:21 pm
Rip wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:41 pm There is no reason to start condemning them either. There is a lot more depth to the issues of the times
Lee and all the other confederates committed treason. It was treason in 1861 and it's treason today.

Why would we honor those who took up arms against our country?

No they didn't.

General Grant saw to it that Confederate military personnel would not be charged. First, he wrote the surrender terms to include that provision. Second, when he learned that there was discussion of trying Lee, he explained to the Secretary of War that he had given his word to Lee, and he would resign his commission and let the press know why if charges were brought against Lee. He was a very popular man at the time. Grant was following what Lincoln’s policy would have been, but it’s pretty clear that he believed in it.

Second, treason is not as clearcut as people today want to think. Before the Civil War, the question of whether states could leave the Union really hadn’t been addressed (although some New England states—the very ones who wanted to try Confederate leaders—had almost seceded themselves 1814–1815.) When Lee was at West Point, the textbook on U.S. government said that secession was legal. To try Lee or any other leader for treason would have been to put secession on trial. Edwin M. Stanton, Secretary of War, was probably the greatest legal mind of his time, but he didn’t seem to believe that the case could be made.

And don’t drag out the “Lee took an oath and violated it” response. Lee resigned his commission in the U.S, Army before joining the Virginia military forces (which had not yet become part of the Confederate forces. Not all bad decisions amount to treason, as much as people not involved might want them to.

https://www.quora.com/Why-was-General-L ... of-treason

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:10 am

Plea bargaining does not change the facts.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:23 am

GreenGoo wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:10 am Plea bargaining does not change the facts.

It wasn't a plea bargain, it was an accepted action for an officer from a state who elected to succeed to resign and join their militia. In those days the military was still more of a national guard than anything. But in any even the most illustrious leaders of the time steadfastly refused to seek treason charges or allow them to be sought.

President Andrew Johnson was another advocate of harsh treatment for Lee and his generals, but he was soon to learn his views were in direct contrast to those of the North’s war hero, Gen. Ulysses S. Grant. The Appomattox terms of surrender offered and signed by Grant included the clause “…each officer and man will be allowed to return to his home, not to be disturbed by United States Authority so long as they observe their paroles and the laws in force where they may reside.” Grant had wanted peace and included this line to ensure there would be no future reprisals against the Confederates.

But on June 7, 1865, U.S. District Judge John C. Underwood in Norfolk, Virginia, handed down treason indictments against Lee, James Longstreet, Jubal Early, and others stating the terms of parole agreed upon with Lee were “a mere military arrangement, and can have no influence upon civil rights or the status of the persons interested.” When Lee, who was preparing to apply for amnesty, became aware of the indictments, he wrote Grant asking if the Appomattox terms were still in effect.

After reading Lee’s letter, Grant forwarded his own views to Secretary of War Edwin Stanton on June 16, 1865:

In my opinion the officers and men paroled at Appomattox Court-House, and since, upon the same terms given to Lee, cannot be tried for treason so long as they observe the terms of their parole. This is my understanding. Good faith, as well as true policy, dictates that we should observe the conditions of that convention. Bad faith on the part of the Government, or a construction of that convention subjecting the officers to trial for treason, would produce a feeling of insecurity in the minds of all the paroled officers and men. If so disposed they might even regard such an infraction of terms by the Government as an entire release from all obligations on their part. I will state further that the terms granted by me met with the hearty approval of the President at the time, and of the country generally. The action of Judge Underwood, in Norfolk, has already had an injurious effect, and I would ask that he be ordered to quash all indictments found against paroled prisoners of war, and to desist from further prosecution of them.

http://www.civilwarprofiles.com/grant-p ... son-trial/

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:14 am

I had no idea you were a confederate apologist too. If Kelly remarks the moon landing never happen will you be posting footage of how the American flag on the moon was blowing in the wind on the sound stage?
I see you trying your hardest to sound reasonable at times but it’s so insincere that at this point I do not think you can tell. Your only purpose when you post on here is to spin for your shill. And you are terrible at it too. Just like the flunkies you are supporting.
Zzzzz. Ok I’m bored with you again.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:48 am

Scoop20906 wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:14 am I had no idea you were a confederate apologist too. If Kelly remarks the moon landing never happen will you be posting footage of how the American flag on the moon was blowing in the wind on the sound stage?
I see you trying your hardest to sound reasonable at times but it’s so insincere that at this point I do not think you can tell. Your only purpose when you post on here is to spin for your shill. And you are terrible at it too. Just like the flunkies you are supporting.
Zzzzz. Ok I’m bored with you again.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't need to apologize for them, they no longer exist, like the Romans they were defeated and vanquished from existence.

Hopefully you realize this arrogant righteousness they are painted with is easily applied to all of America in how they treated native americans. No one's ancestors are without blood on their hands from barbaric acts in their history.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:09 am

Was this your point? To teach me that? Really? You?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:11 am

We are so lucky to have a corrupt President in office. If we didn’t then his apologist wouldn’t be taking the time to explain how arrogant righteousness affects America. Thank you for your service to our country.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:21 am

Rip, you only argue these points when it’s convenient to you and whatever you are trying to defend. You do not give a crap about those statues. I doubt you have ever even visited one. Maybe you passed one by on the your way somewhere. If you have visited one Im sure you admired it by the light of your tiki torch.

You are insincere. You do not even care what I think. You are just desperate to avoid admitting to yourself that by supporting Trump you have made a horrible, racist, classist mistake.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:52 am

Rip wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:48 am I don't need to apologize for them, they no longer exist, like the Romans they were defeated and vanquished from existence.

We both know that cult is alive and well. It's the only reason we're even having this discussion.

Hopefully you realize this arrogant righteousness they are painted with is easily applied to all of America in how they treated native americans. No one's ancestors are without blood on their hands from barbaric acts in their history.

We don't erect monuments mourning Custer or celebrating our military prowess at Wounded Knee.

When we do try to acknowledge the blood on America's hands, right-wingers blast it as "political correctness" or "apologizing for America."

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:29 am

Rip wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:29 pm
hepcat wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:22 pm While your attempt at trying to draw a false analogy would make Trump beam with pride, it’s not really the point, is it? Also, if you don’t think those folks flying confederate flags at the rallies weren’t celebrating then you’re also near Hannity levels of self delusion.
I have no interest in them. I am simply saying that Kelly wasn't wrong.

He was wrong. But what's worse, there was no reason for him to weigh in. Why the fuck is he making statements like that. Kelly needs to focus on his damned job and stop with the racist dog whistling. Oh wait, maybe that is his job?

Also, your reliance on NY Post Op-eds is weaksauce.

Actual historians:

“What’s so strange about this statement is how closely it tracks or resembles the view of the Civil War that the South had finally got the nation to embrace by the early 20th century,” she said. “It’s the Jim Crow version of the causes of the Civil War. I mean, it tracks all of the major talking points of this pro-Confederate view of the Civil War.”

Kelly makes several points. That Lee was honorable. That fighting for state was more important than fighting for country. That a lack of compromise led to the war. That good people on both sides were fighting for conscientious reasons. Both McCurry and David Blight, a history professor at Yale University and author of “Race and Reunion: The Civil War in American Memory,” broadly reject all of these arguments.

“This is profound ignorance, that’s what one has to say first, at least of pretty basic things about the American historical narrative,” Blight said. “I mean, it’s one thing to hear it from Trump, who, let’s be honest, just really doesn’t know any history and has demonstrated it over and over and over. But General Kelly has a long history in the American military.”

Blight described Kelly’s argument in similar terms as McCurry — an “old reconciliationist narrative” about the Civil War that, in the past half a century or so has “just been exploded” by historical research since.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:38 am

Trump is now, in his way, blaming Democrats for yesterday's attack in NYC thanks to watching Fox and Friends. Apparently the guy entered the US via a "Diversity Visa Lottery Program", which Trump called a "Chuck Schumer beauty", and that there can be no more "Democrat Lottery Systems".

Fox and Friends were tagged in two of the tweets.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:49 am

They should either rename that show or create a new one called “Fox and Trump”.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:01 am

Rip wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:48 am Hopefully you realize this arrogant righteousness they are painted with is easily applied to all of America in how they treated native americans. No one's ancestors are without blood on their hands from barbaric acts in their history.

I'm white and I have no issues with moving a statue of General Custer to a museum due to his slaughtering of women and children at Wounded Knee.

You're white and you have issues with moving a statue of anyone who fought in support of slavery.

Surely you understand how that comes across to many of us.

pr0ner wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:38 am Trump is now, in his way, blaming Democrats for yesterday's attack in NYC thanks to watching Fox and Friends. Apparently the guy entered the US via a "Diversity Visa Lottery Program", which Trump called a "Chuck Schumer beauty", and that there can be no more "Democrat Lottery Systems".

Fox and Friends were tagged in two of the tweets.

It's inappropriate and shameful to bring up gun control after the Las Vegas shooting, but it's perfectly fine to immediately bring up immigration changes that wouldn't have stopped this from happening.

The Mangerine is a veritable treasure trove of double standards.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:04 am

I know it’s old hat at this point, but it’s absoluely flabbergasting that our president not only spends his time watching that insipid tripe but formulates his policy positions on it. We literally have the typical Fox viewer as President— an old white ignorant racist addicted to outrage.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:08 am

Boom! Jeff Flake points out on Twitter that the "Diversity Visa Program" no longer exists.

https://twitter.com/JeffFlake/status/925703028560232448

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:08 am

https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/925698893723176960

So President. Much tact.

On another note, I just feel bad for all those Hitler statues they took down around Germany. Whitewashing history and all that.

Oh wait, it's called a fucking museum.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:16 am