The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

[Holman]

Tallying known contacts between the Trump campaign and Russian agents: More than you think.

Overall statistics

At least 12 Trump associates had contacts with Russians during the campaign or transition.
There were at least 19 face-to-face interactions with Russians or Kremlin-linked figures.
There were at least 51 communications -- meetings, phone calls, email exchanges and more.
This flies in the face of at least nine blanket denials from Trump world of any contacts with Russia.

Of course this is just what's known. All this week there has been buzz about Mueller looking into contacts that haven't been made public at all.

[Max Peck]

The Hidden History of Trump’s First Trip to Moscow

In 1987, a young real estate developer traveled to the Soviet Union. The KGB almost certainly made the trip happen.

It was 1984 and General Vladimir Alexandrovich Kryuchkov had a problem. The general occupied one of the KGB’s most exalted posts. He was head of the First Chief Directorate, the prestigious KGB arm responsible for gathering foreign intelligence.

Kryuchkov had begun his career with five years at the Soviet mission in Budapest under Ambassador Yuri Andropov. In 1967 Andropov became KGB chairman. Kryuchkov went to Moscow, took up a number of sensitive posts, and established a reputation as a devoted and hardworking officer. By 1984, Kryuchkov’s directorate in Moscow was bigger than ever before—12,000 officers, up from about 3,000 in the 1960s. His headquarters at Yasenevo, on the wooded southern outskirts of the city, was expanding: Workmen were busy constructing a 22-story annex and a new 11-story building.

In politics, change was in the air. Soon a new man would arrive in the Kremlin, Mikhail Gorbachev. Gorbachev’s policy of detente with the West—a refreshing contrast to the global confrontation of previous general secretaries—meant the directorate’s work abroad was more important than ever.

Kryuchkov faced several challenges. First, a hawkish president, Ronald Reagan, was in power in Washington. The KGB regarded his two predecessors, Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter, as weak. By contrast Reagan was seen as a potent adversary. The directorate was increasingly preoccupied with what it believed—wrongly—was an American plot to conduct a preemptive nuclear strike against the USSR.

It was around this time that Donald Trump appears to have attracted the attention of Soviet intelligence. How that happened, and where that relationship began, is an answer hidden somewhere in the KGB's secret archives. Assuming, that is, that the documents still exist.

[malchior]

I dumped this story in the Russia thread but it indeed opens a lot of questions. On top of that we have an hour long conservation with putin yesterday. They spoke for an hour about Syria? Really? And they still haven't implemented the new Russian sanctions. This couldn't stink more.

[Max Peck]

I dumped this story in the Russia thread but it indeed opens a lot of questions. On top of that we have an hour long conservation with putin yesterday. They spoke for an hour about Syria? Really? And they still haven't implemented the new Russian sanctions. This couldn't stink more.

Oops, I missed that post. I plead Desert Bus Distraction Syndrome as my defense.

[YellowKing]

What's insanely scary is that when you look at Trump's actions through the prism of Russian influence, he's systematically dismantling everything that would put America at the forefront of global leadership. Environment/climate issues - kill it. FCC and net neutrality - kill it. Put a complete moron as our head of education. Put inexperienced, unqualified people in every Cabinet position. Actively encourage and exploit partisanship, racism, sexism, etc.

We are watching Russia win a war against us without firing a shot. The damage Trump's doing will take decades to fix, even if he doesn't finish his term.

Gotta hand it to Putin though. It was an ingenious plan. He truly is a Bond super-villain.

[malchior]

And all he has to keep doing is tell Trump how great he is.

[Kraken]

We are living through a dire historical moment with little evidence that normalcy can be restored. I can only see two potential lifelines: The Mueller investigation, and the midterms a year from now.

What's even more worrisome is that all of the liberal democracies are in crises of their own. The last firewall was (ironically) Merkel's Germany, and now even that is reeling.

[Smoove_B]

I know it's wrong to wish ill will, but I really do hope this news consumes Trump's golfing holiday extended weekend:

Lawyers for Michael T. Flynn, President Trump’s former national security adviser, notified the president’s legal team in recent days that they could no longer discuss the special counsel’s investigation, according to four people involved in the case, an indication that Mr. Flynn is cooperating with prosecutors or negotiating such a deal.

...

That agreement has been terminated, the four people said. Defense lawyers frequently share information during investigations, but they must stop when doing so would pose a conflict of interest. It is unethical for lawyers to work together when one client is cooperating with prosecutors and another is still under investigation.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

[malchior]

It isn't wrong in this case. Any investigation that might end this nightmare administration is something to be thankful for.

[Scoop20906]

And I read that the Flynn news was dropped on Donny’s 100th day spent at Trump owner property (at tax payers expense) on the day his lawyer told him the Mueller investigation would wrap up. I expect some angry trump tweets while his strains to pass the turkey in the morning.

BIGGEST WITCH HUNT OF ALL TIME!! SAD!!

[Kraken]

While I'm as impatient as the next guy for the endgame, I also enjoy the water-torture aspect.

[GreenGoo]

While I'm as impatient as the next guy for the endgame, I also enjoy the water-torture aspect.

If I could see the veins bulging on his forehead, it would brighten my day.

It's probably too much to hope for, but I'd love to see him come out of the WH poorer than he went in. Or in Jail. That would be ok too.

[Daehawk]

So much of this administration bothers me ...some scares me. But his Tweeting is the thing that hits me most. He simply says whatever is on his addled mind. He doesn't seem to think them through. He doesn't seem to care what he says. And worst of all he doesn't seem to consider what he says is VERY un presidential and very unprofessional. He's like some child with a electronic crayon and a low IQ.

Then there are Americans that see him do no wrong. We are an embarrassment to the world and Im really hating it.

[Blackhawk]

His tweets are the best thing about him. Not only is he advertising his insanity to the voters, his impulsiveness in his tweets is building a huge stack of evidence that may be able to be used against him. Please, Donnie-baby, tweet your little heart out!

[Smoove_B]

Case in point - does anyone have other examples of when alleged criminals have taunted federal prosecutors as a viable strategy? This is no longer ignorance, it's absolutely arrogance.

[El Guapo]

https://twitter.com/evanmcmurry/status/ ... 5915597824

All I want for Hanukah is a Flynn cooperation agreement with Mueller.

[Carpet_pissr]

[El Guapo]

https://twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/9 ... 4070673408

Something on his mind?

[Alefroth]

He's so woefully out of his depth.

[Remus West]

https://twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/9 ... 4070673408

Something on his mind?

Every American should prepare for some free Canadian bacon coming our way as the spoils of victory.

[Holman]

Word just now is that Flynn has been indicted and will plead guilty to charges of lying to the FBI.

Given everything else it's known that Mueller has on him, this means Flynn has rolled over and rolled over Bigly. That the deal is being settled now means that Mueller thinks he has enough from Flynn to move on up the chain.

Epic WH tweet storm in 3,2,1...

[Zaxxon]

Source.

[Captain Caveman]

Up the chain means Trump, right? Or are people like Sessions and Kushner next?

In either case, shit just got real. Flynn should know just about everything and he's cooperating with Mueller for this plea deal (he certainly could've been charged with a lot more).

So Mueller gets fired now, right?

[Zaxxon]

(he certainly could've been charged with a lot more).

That's the surest sign to me that this is some significant shit. One count of lying to the FBI? That's some weak sauce. And not likely just because it's the strongest sauce they've got in the fridge. #weirdanalogies

[Holman]

This comes at the end of a week in which further info about the Gulen kidnapping plan and other Turkish schemes involving Flynn were coming to light. Whatever he has given Mueller, it was enough to write off some blockbuster-level crimes.

Kushner Week might come sooner than we think. That's when Trump tries to fire Mueller.

[malchior]

I totally agree - this means he likely has the goods. Also Mueller probably is still dangling the FARA violations out there too.

[Captain Caveman]

This strikes me as a much bigger deal than the Manafort indictment. An indictment is the end of the line, but this is a plea deal which signifies ongoing cooperation. And from a central figure no less, who must be providing a lot of evidence on bigger fish... and there aren't too many bigger fish than a national security advisor.

[Scoop20906]

It’s a Flynn Friday!!!


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[malchior]

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status ... 4661007360

[msteelers]

Source.

This came as news to me:

Though [Flynn] wasn't initially considered for the top job, Trump's daughter, Ivanka Trump, and son-in-law Jared Kushner made it clear to the Trump transition team that they wanted him there, CNN has reported.

[msteelers]

Should we be getting our hopes up already? What are the chances that he is only charged with lying to the FBI because that's all that Mueller can prove at this point?

[Paingod]

It's always a delicious, delicious treat when someone who so vocally opposes something is discovered to be so vocal in order to distract from their own attunement with that thing. Flynn and criminal politics. Priests and homosexuality. Trump and his opposition to presidents playing golf.

[Captain Caveman]

Should we be getting our hopes up already? What are the chances that he is only charged with lying to the FBI because that's all that Mueller can prove at this point?

Doubtful. The dude was just caught planning a freaking kidnapping while national security advisor. He's been on the payroll of some shady motherfuckers. He was in contact with Russians making deals to lessen sanctions. The guy was central to a lot, and the fact that he's only getting charged with lying means that he's singing... and has been for some time.

[msteelers]

Should we be getting our hopes up already? What are the chances that he is only charged with lying to the FBI because that's all that Mueller can prove at this point?

Doubtful. The dude was just caught planning a freaking kidnapping while national security advisor. He's been on the payroll of some shady motherfuckers. He was in contact with Russians making deals to lessen sanctions. The guy was central to a lot, and the fact that he's only getting charged with lying means that he's singing.

But that's the thing that gets me. The National Security Advisor planning a kidnapping while in office is a huge friggin deal. Would Mueller let that go entirely just to flip on somebody higher up the chain?

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Should we be getting our hopes up already? What are the chances that he is only charged with lying to the FBI because that's all that Mueller can prove at this point?

Doubtful. The dude was just caught planning a freaking kidnapping while national security advisor. He's been on the payroll of some shady motherfuckers. He was in contact with Russians making deals to lessen sanctions. The guy was central to a lot, and the fact that he's only getting charged with lying means that he's singing.

But that's the thing that gets me. The National Security Advisor planning a kidnapping while in office is a huge friggin deal. Would Mueller let that go entirely just to flip on somebody higher up the chain?

If it's the best way to nail multiple people up the chain, sure.

[El Guapo]

This strikes me as a much bigger deal than the Manafort indictment. An indictment is the end of the line, but this is a plea deal which signifies ongoing cooperation. And from a central figure no less, who must be providing a lot of evidence on bigger fish... and there aren't too many bigger fish than a national security advisor.

And it's not just that he's a National Security Adviser, it's also that Trump has treated him way differently than others in his inner circle. Pressuring Comey to back off of him, firing Comey when he didn't, continuing to speak well of Flynn after firing him (whereas everyone else who gets pushed out has gotten the "who is that guy again?" treatment.

[Paingod]

One might think you're suggesting the Orange Mancheeto has a guilty conscience.

That would require a minimal level of humanity, though.

[El Guapo]

Should we be getting our hopes up already? What are the chances that he is only charged with lying to the FBI because that's all that Mueller can prove at this point?

Doubtful. The dude was just caught planning a freaking kidnapping while national security advisor. He's been on the payroll of some shady motherfuckers. He was in contact with Russians making deals to lessen sanctions. The guy was central to a lot, and the fact that he's only getting charged with lying means that he's singing.

But that's the thing that gets me. The National Security Advisor planning a kidnapping while in office is a huge friggin deal. Would Mueller let that go entirely just to flip on somebody higher up the chain?

If it's the best way to nail multiple people up the chain, sure.

There are a couple other possibilities too:

(1) The kidnapping story in the press isn't correct and/or has a few key parts wrong - like, what if Flynn wasn't planning some private kidnapping, but instead was planning on extraditing Gulen as part of a legal (if shady) process?
(2) Mueller can't find enough proof linking Flynn to the kidnapping scheme;
(3) Flynn has enough on Trump (or maybe on several other figures like Kushner, Trump Jr., etc.) to have them dead to rights.

It's *possible* that this indictment is all that Mueller could prove on Flynn, but that seems super unlikely, given the earlier indications of Flynn-Mueller cooperation, and that there was so much other indicators of Flynn guilt around (if *nothing* else, Flynn was also dead-to-rights on FARA violations).

[El Guapo]

One might think you're suggesting the Orange Mancheeto has a guilty conscience.

That would require a minimal level of humanity, though.

Well, it's more that he's conscious of how guilty he is, and of how much Flynn knows.

[Kurth]

Should we be getting our hopes up already? What are the chances that he is only charged with lying to the FBI because that's all that Mueller can prove at this point?

Doubtful. The dude was just caught planning a freaking kidnapping while national security advisor. He's been on the payroll of some shady motherfuckers. He was in contact with Russians making deals to lessen sanctions. The guy was central to a lot, and the fact that he's only getting charged with lying means that he's singing.

But that's the thing that gets me. The National Security Advisor planning a kidnapping while in office is a huge friggin deal. Would Mueller let that go entirely just to flip on somebody higher up the chain?

I share your doubts here. I'd feel a lot better if Flynn were cutting a plea deal AND being charged with something a little more substantive.

Of course, it's possible that he's getting such an easy go of it because the info he has is blockbuster good, but I'm not sure how we have any way of knowing that at this point.