The Confederate Flag Thread

PLW · Post by **PLW** » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:13 pm

Blackhawk wrote:Better than the usual guano that gets tossed around in here.

Hey... speak for your sulf, or...

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:24 pm

Freyland wrote:
hepcat wrote:I'm surprised so many people have cast Fireball in this thread and he still hasn't shown up...
I'm sure he turned that setting off his Smartphone long ago.

Shizzlesnik the Goblin-Slayer has cast Fireball!
FB: "Fuck off, Google Assistant"

It's too bad, as I do enjoy his periodic "here's what's up with all this bullshit" run through R&P every month or so.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:49 pm

I've heard he's a level 6 Fireball now though, so who knows what he'll say!

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:18 pm

What does a high quality battle flag go for? Evicted a tenant and they left it behind. Really nice work on it, I guess you have to meet someplace "really" safe to sell one? lol

Punisher · Post by **Punisher** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:28 am

Unagi wrote:
gbasden wrote:
Holman wrote:KKK wizards are almost certain to have an INT penalty though.
Bravo.
Agreed.

CHR and WIS too, right?

I suspect CHR will be high when interacting with NPC's of the same alignment though.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:22 am

I'm on my phone and don't want to fool with links, but on this 9/11 morning Fox & Friends pondered whether Americans would be pulling down 9/11 memorials in a hundred years...

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:40 am

Makes sense that they would try to equate the two. The loss of slavery is viewed as a tragedy to the people who watch Fox and Friends.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:15 am

Holman wrote:I'm on my phone and don't want to fool with links, but on this 9/11 morning Fox & Friends pondered whether Americans would be pulling down 9/11 memorials in a hundred years...

Code: Select all

conspiracy

The way they pulled down Building 7...
/conspiracy

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:28 am

Holman wrote:I'm on my phone and don't want to fool with links, but on this 9/11 morning Fox & Friends pondered whether Americans would be pulling down 9/11 memorials in a hundred years...

Hell, no. The Times Square Bin Laden statues are here to stay!

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:29 am

Jaymann wrote:
Holman wrote:I'm on my phone and don't want to fool with links, but on this 9/11 morning Fox & Friends pondered whether Americans would be pulling down 9/11 memorials in a hundred years...
Code: Select all
conspiracy
The way they pulled down Building 7...
/conspiracy

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:59 am

Blackhawk wrote:
Holman wrote:I'm on my phone and don't want to fool with links, but on this 9/11 morning Fox & Friends pondered whether Americans would be pulling down 9/11 memorials in a hundred years...
Hell, no. The Times Square Bin Laden statues are here to stay!

Also note that most memorials to the Confederacy at issue were first put up well into the 1900s, over 50 years after the Civil War ended. So it would be like if there were a political/social movement in 2070 against the rising rights for some minority class that put up revisionist 9/11 statues that were controversial sometime in 2160 and were being torn down then.

"The monoliths of the Great Midwestern Sea aren't racist, they just remind us how Muslims conspired with the Jews to detonate a tactical nuke in Old New York, leading to the Trump Coup of 2019. Brave boys were lost on both sides. Both sides."

Did someone already post Notes on an Imagined Plaque?

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:38 pm

Holman wrote:Washington and Jefferson were slave owners, but they were also heroes of human freedom. Davis and Lee and the rest were fighting to defend slavery and white supremacy first and foremost. They fought to prevent the expansion of human freedom.

We celebrate Washington and Jefferson despite their sins.

UVA removes black shroud from Jefferson statue after protest

The demonstrators covered the statue of Jefferson, the third president of the United States and UVA's founder, and put up signs that called him a "rapist" and "racist."

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:02 am

From Trevor Noah's book on growing up in S Africa:

"What he did, on a small scale, showed me how important it is to empower the dispossessed and the disenfranchised in the wake of oppression. Andrew was white. His family had access to education, resources, computers. For generations, while his people were preparing to go to university, my people were crowded into thatched huts singing, “Two times two is four. Three times two is six. La la la la la.” My family had been denied the things his family had taken for granted. I had a natural talent for selling to people, but without knowledge and resources, where was that going to get me? People always lecture the poor: “Take responsibility for yourself! Make something of yourself!” But with what raw materials are the poor to make something of themselves? People love to say, “Give a man a fish, and he’ll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he’ll eat for a lifetime.” What they don’t say is, “And it would be nice if you gave him a fishing rod.” That’s the part of the analogy that’s missing. Working with Andrew was the first time in my life I realized you need someone from the privileged world to come to you and say, “Okay, here’s what you need, and here’s how it works.” Talent alone would have gotten me nowhere without Andrew giving me the CD writer. People say, “Oh, that’s a handout.” No. I still have to work to profit by it. But I don’t stand a chance without it."

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:58 pm

Dallas

The Robert E. Lee statue has been removed, and his name on the park may soon follow the same fate.

The Dallas Parks and Recreation Board is voting Friday on changing the name of Lee Park, according to their meeting agenda.

If the vote is approved, the name will be changed back to it's old name of Oaklawn Park until the park is permanently renamed.

The Lee monument was officially removed from the park last Thursday.

Elsewhere in the city, a task force is working to decide the fate of other monuments, schools and streets named with Confederate ties.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:27 pm

Confederacy: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:14 am

Police Issue Warrant for Black Man Beaten by White Supremacists in Charlottesville

Police in Charlottesville, Virginia, have an arrest warrant out for an African-American man who was beaten during a violent white supremacist in rally in the city in August.

Twenty-year-old DeAndre Harris is now wanted by police. He appeared in a widely circulated video on social media being beaten with sticks by a group of men during the August 12 “Unite the Right” rally that left counterprotester Heather Heyer dead and dozens injured after they were rammed by a car.

Harris is accused of attacking one of the men who beat him.

A judge issued the warrant for Harris, who is accused of malicious wounding after “the victim went to the magistrate’s office, presented the facts of what occurred and attempted to obtain the warrant,” said a Charlottesville Police Department release.

A detective at the department verified the accuser's story, and the judge issued the warrant.

Civil rights lawyer Lee Merritt, who is representing Harris, told broadcaster WCPO 9 his client will turn himself in within 24 hours and that the charge is “clearly retaliatory” after Harris and several other activists used social media to identify the suspects. In September, Merritt launched a crowdfunding page to identify Harris’s attackers.

Two men, Alex Michael Ramos and Daniel Borden, have both been charged with malicious wounding for attacking Harris.

In August, The Washington Post reported that Harris swung a flashlight and may have struck a white supremacist who tried to spear him with the pole of a Confederate flag while he was being attacked. It’s not clear if this is the same person who sought the warrant against Harris.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:44 pm

He clearly should have had a gun on him. He could have just killed them and it probably would have been ruled justified.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:08 pm

msteelers wrote:He could have just killed them and it probably would have been ruled justified.

Did you miss the part where he was black?

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:10 pm

Alefroth wrote:
msteelers wrote:He could have just killed them and it probably would have been ruled justified.
Did you miss the part where he was black?

You're right. They would have already executed him.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:43 pm

Harris is accused of attacking one of the men who beat him.
.
.
.
In August, The Washington Post reported that Harris swung a flashlight and may have struck a white supremacist who tried to spear him with the pole of a Confederate flag while he was being attacked. It’s not clear if this is the same person who sought the warrant against Harris.

Let me get this straight. As white supremacists are attempting to spear a black man with a flagpole, he swings a flashlight and hits one of them. And this is grounds for an arrest warrant.

I'm expect that we'll soon hear all about how Harris smoked the marijuana and was a "thug", which somehow justifies this insanity.

Stefan Stirzaker · Post by **Stefan Stirzaker** » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:00 pm

Don't forget wilfull property damage, that guys head caused dents to form in their beatin' stick. He should pay for replacement beatin sticks. Clearly his fault for having a hard head and not letting whitey get his way.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:12 pm

This is why he was arrested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33R_MqZQCVI

This was before the incident in the garage when they were attempting to snatch flags away from people which led to the incident in the garage for which the other two guys were arrested.

But nice job drinking the talking point kool-aid.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:18 pm

Got it. His attackers were just standing their ground.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:21 pm

That video *alone* doesn't support or disprove the narrative that the group were being attacked with that flagpole. Luckily I'm sure he'll get a fair trial.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:24 pm

Rip wrote:This is why he was arrested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33R_MqZQCVI

This was before the incident in the garage when they were attempting to snatch flags away from people which led to the incident in the garage for which the other two guys were arrested.

But nice job drinking the talking point kool-aid.

You’re like our own little Sarah Sanders. So adorable!

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:19 pm

Rip wrote:This is why he was arrested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33R_MqZQCVI

This was before the incident in the garage when they were attempting to snatch flags away from people which led to the incident in the garage for which the other two guys were arrested.

But nice job drinking the talking point kool-aid.

Hmmm. If that's actually him and that action happened in a vacuum, then I'd concede that there's certainly a case to be made.

I'd be very interested to see the rest of that video and not just a blurry 4 seconds.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:36 am

Turns out the Harris warrant surprised both the DA and the *Detective* investigating the case.

;tldr version: Anyone can present the facts for a crime and the police (as in any police officer) has to approve the facts for a magistrate to issue a warrant. Apparently some neo-Nazis wrote up a warrant, got a detective in Charlottesville not assigned to the case to 'verify the facts', and voila you have an arrest warrant.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:30 pm

Trump was right? First they came for the Confederates and now Lincoln?

According to Misha (Lac du Flambeau Ojibwe), co-president of fiscal relations for Wunk Sheek, the demonstration was oriented not only around raising awareness about Columbus, but also about Lincoln’s role in native history.

In 1862, Lincoln ordered the execution of 38 Dakota men, making it the largest mass execution ordered by a U.S. president, according to leaders in Wunk Sheek. For this reason, the organization chose to hold the demonstration in front of his statue on Bascom. A sign hung around Lincoln’s neck describing the execution and ended with “#DecolonizeOurCampus.”

The demonstration was staged as a “die-in” in which supporters laid on the ground in solidarity with the executed Dakota men. The die-in began at 12:26 p.m. to honor the Dec. 26 date of the execution, and lasted for 38 minutes to honor the 38 executed men.

“Everyone thinks of Lincoln as the great, you know, freer of slaves, but let’s be real: He owned slaves, and as natives, we want people to know that he ordered the execution of native men,” Misha said. “Just to have him here at the top of Bascom is just really belittling.”

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:41 pm

Moliere wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:30 pm Trump was right? First they came for the Confederates and now Lincoln?

According to Misha (Lac du Flambeau Ojibwe), co-president of fiscal relations for Wunk Sheek, the demonstration was oriented not only around raising awareness about Columbus, but also about Lincoln’s role in native history.

In 1862, Lincoln ordered the execution of 38 Dakota men, making it the largest mass execution ordered by a U.S. president, according to leaders in Wunk Sheek. For this reason, the organization chose to hold the demonstration in front of his statue on Bascom. A sign hung around Lincoln’s neck describing the execution and ended with “#DecolonizeOurCampus.”

The demonstration was staged as a “die-in” in which supporters laid on the ground in solidarity with the executed Dakota men. The die-in began at 12:26 p.m. to honor the Dec. 26 date of the execution, and lasted for 38 minutes to honor the 38 executed men.

“Everyone thinks of Lincoln as the great, you know, freer of slaves, but let’s be real: He owned slaves, and as natives, we want people to know that he ordered the execution of native men,” Misha said. “Just to have him here at the top of Bascom is just really belittling.”

Lincoln didn't own slaves. I am curious what the story is with the Dakotans here, though the incorrect statement on Lincoln and slaves makes me wonder how solid he is on his history.

As to the broader point, though, of course different people are going to argue over statutes of figures who are less straightforwardly terrible than Confederate leaders. Any statue is fair game, and presumably people will decide to move or take down some statues and keep others up. That doesn't seem like a great reason to not take down statues lionizing terrible people who initiated a bloody rebellion in order to keep millions more enslaved.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:14 pm

El Guapo wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:41 pmI am curious what the story is with the Dakotans here, though the incorrect statement on Lincoln and slaves makes me wonder how solid he is on his history.

Dakota War of 1862

In early December, 303 Sioux prisoners were convicted of murder and rape by military tribunals and sentenced to death. Some trials lasted less than 5 minutes. No one explained the proceedings to the defendants, nor were the Sioux represented by defense attorneys. President Lincoln personally reviewed the trial records to distinguish between those who had engaged in warfare against the U.S., versus those who had committed crimes of rape and murder against civilians.

Henry Whipple, the Episcopal bishop of Minnesota and a reformer of U.S. Indian policy, responded by publishing an open letter. He also went to Washington DC in the fall of 1862 to urge Lincoln to proceed with leniency. On the other hand, General Pope and Minnesota Senator Morton S. Wilkinson warned Lincoln that the white population opposed leniency. Governor Ramsey warned Lincoln that, unless all 303 Sioux were executed, "[P]rivate revenge would on all this border take the place of official judgment on these Indians." In the end, Lincoln commuted the death sentences of 264 prisoners, but he allowed the execution of 38 men.

Even partial clemency resulted in protests from Minnesota, which persisted until the Secretary of the Interior offered white Minnesotans "reasonable compensation for the depredations committed." Furthermore, Republicans did not fare as well in Minnesota in the 1864 election as they had before. Ramsey (by then a senator) informed Lincoln that more hangings would have resulted in a larger electoral majority. The President reportedly replied, "I could not afford to hang men for votes."

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:39 pm

Rip wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:12 pm This is why he was arrested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33R_MqZQCVI

This was before the incident in the garage when they were attempting to snatch flags away from people which led to the incident in the garage for which the other two guys were arrested.

But nice job drinking the talking point kool-aid.

Figured this was probably worth an update.

DeAndre Harris acquitted of assaulting white supremacists with his flashlight.

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:58 pm

Saw one of these proudly flying inside the Goodwill this very day.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:47 pm

Question: Are all flags that fly flying proudly? If not, how can you tell the proud ones vs. the full of shame ones?

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:51 pm

GreenGoo wrote: Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:47 pm Question: Are all flags that fly flying proudly? If not, how can you tell the proud ones vs. the full of shame ones?

I'm pretty sure whoever placed "it" up there had no idea what "it" was. On the other hand the guy who used to fly one in my folk's condo association knew what he was doing, but no one else did.

Punisher · Post by **Punisher** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:41 am

GreenGoo wrote: Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:47 pm Question: Are all flags that fly flying proudly? If not, how can you tell the proud ones vs. the full of shame ones?

Obviously, the ones that hang their head down are the shameful ones.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:55 am

Punisher wrote: Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:41 am
GreenGoo wrote: Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:47 pm Question: Are all flags that fly flying proudly? If not, how can you tell the proud ones vs. the full of shame ones?
Obviously, the ones that hang their head down are the shameful ones.

This is the first result for a google image search for "shameful flag".

Seems fair.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:14 pm

Image not working.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:26 pm

That's a shame.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:30 pm

Moliere wrote: Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:26 pm That's a shame.

It's very meta.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:37 am

Dallas News

Texas has removed more Confederate symbols than any other state over the last three years, according to a new report from the Southern Poverty Law Center.
...
Symbols removed in Texas include a statue of Robert E. Lee that stood in Dallas’ Lee Park until September and statues of four Confederate figures at the University of Texas that were taken down in August. In December, the Dallas ISD board voted to change the names of three elementary schools that honored Confederate generals.

Other states that have removed a significant number of Confederate symbols since 2015 include Virginia (14), Florida (9), Georgia (8), Maryland (6), North Carolina (6) and Oklahoma (5).
...
The report said Texas still has 68 Confederate monuments, some of which are up for debate. The Dallas City Council is considering removing a Confederate War Memorial downtown. In Austin, Rep. Eric Johnson, D-Dallas, has asked the governor to remove a Confederate plaque outside his office in the Capitol.

Now if we just clean up some street names: