The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:14 pm

Jag wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:28 pm
pr0ner wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:05 pm The FBI raided the offices of Michael Cohen, Trump's personal lawyer, today, after a referral by Mueller.

I love that picture so much.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:29 pm

Kyle Griffin wrote:Mueller brought info involving Michael Cohen to Deputy A.G. Rod Rosenstein, who decided that the matter should be handled by the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York rather than by Mueller’s team, a person familiar tells Bloomberg.

My scant information super budget guess is a financial crime.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:44 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:29 pm

Kyle Griffin wrote:Mueller brought info involving Michael Cohen to Deputy A.G. Rod Rosenstein, who decided that the matter should be handled by the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York rather than by Mueller’s team, a person familiar tells Bloomberg.
My scant information super budget guess is a financial crime.

Like campaign finance fraud?

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:59 pm

So if you're Trump, does this spur you to action on Mueller? Blow up Syria more than initially planned to divert attention? I sort of fear what an unhinged trumpster might do now after today. This strikes me as a major moment on the timeline.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:26 pm

Enough wrote:So if you're Trump, does this spur you to action on Mueller? Blow up Syria more than initially planned to divert attention? I sort of fear what an unhinged trumpster might do now after today. This strikes me as a major moment on the timeline.

The answer is yes to all of the above! But he'll probably bomb some easily repairable airfields and call it a day while being more aggressive towards his real enemy, Mueller.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:26 pm

Apparently Trump blew a gasket at a military brief. He is already griping that this is a 'new level of unfairness', 'witch hunt', complained about Sessions recusing himself, etc. That may be part of why they went outside Mueller. Partly because NY AUSA would be better suited to pursue financial crimes and also to spread the charges out over multiple jurisdictions.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:28 pm

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:28 pm

Jag wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:44 pm Like campaign finance fraud?

Perhaps

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:37 pm

Just a reminder, Cohen is also the deputy national finance chairman of the RNC.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:45 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:26 pm That may be part of why they went outside Mueller. Partly because NY AUSA would be better suited to pursue financial crimes and also to spread the charges out over multiple jurisdictions.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but state charges are exempt from Presidential pardon powers as well.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:50 pm

Enough wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:59 pm So if you're Trump, does this spur you to action on Mueller? Blow up Syria more than initially planned to divert attention? I sort of fear what an unhinged trumpster might do now after today. This strikes me as a major moment on the timeline.

My first thought

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:09 pm

Because there's a tweet for everything:

Michael Cohen
Michael Cohen
@MichaelCohen212
@HillaryClinton when you go to prison for defrauding America and perjury, your room and board will be free!

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:16 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:45 pm
malchior wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:26 pm That may be part of why they went outside Mueller. Partly because NY AUSA would be better suited to pursue financial crimes and also to spread the charges out over multiple jurisdictions.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but state charges are exempt from Presidential pardon powers as well.

They are but these are still are Federal crimes. However they could be coordinating with NY.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:19 pm

Also might be marching tomorrow. "Guess we will see." (Hint: Trump was directly asked about firing Mueller and that was the answer).

Jon Favreau wrote:Well, fuck. Get ready, everyone.

edit: (here is a video of him talking about this - this is looking like a pivotal moment)

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:27 pm

"They", of course, being the FBI who was serving a legally obtained warrant.

Maybe if you and your cronies weren't up to your necks in shady shit, everything wouldn't keep pointing directly back to them.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:45 pm

Transcript of the rant

Q Are you concerned about what the FBI might find, Mr. President? Do you have any concern?

THE PRESIDENT: No, I’m not.

Q Why don’t you just fire Mueller?

THE PRESIDENT: Why don’t I just fire Mueller?

Q Yeah, just fire the guy.

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think it’s a disgrace what’s going on. We’ll see what happens. But I think it’s really a sad situation when you look at what happened. And many people have said, “You should fire him.” Again, they found nothing. And in finding nothing, that’s a big statement. If you know the person who’s in charge of the investigation, you know about that. Deputy Rosenstein — Rod Rosenstein — he wrote the letter, very critical, of Comey.

One of the things they said: “I fired Comey.” Well, I turned out to do the right thing, because if you look at all of the things that he’s done and the lies, and you look at what’s gone on at the FBI with the insurance policy and all of the things that happened — turned out I did the right thing.

But he signed — as you know, he also signed the FISA warrant. So Rod Rosenstein, who’s in charge of this, signed a FISA warrant, and he also signed a letter that was essentially saying to fire James Comey. And he was right about that. He was absolutely right.

So we’ll see what happens. I think it’s disgraceful, and so does a lot of other people. This is a pure and simple witch hunt.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank all very much.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:56 pm

Those are not the words of an innocent man.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:06 pm

He's the most innocent. Didn't you see that innocent body language?

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:10 pm

But Hillaries emails!!!! Why aren't you looking at Hillaries emails!!!! Obama did it!!!!

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:11 pm

What does it mean that Mueller took this step without first getting Trump in for an interview, which seems to have been his aim?

He has to know that this puts him at great risk for Trump lashing out every way he can think of.

I know we have no tea leaves to read here, but I'm going to go with the assumption that Mueller knows what he's doing, and that somehow he knows Trump can't stop it now.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:15 pm

Some new video from the raid just released

Spoiler:

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:23 pm

HAHAHAHHAHA!!

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:46 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:11 pm What does it mean that Mueller took this step without first getting Trump in for an interview, which seems to have been his aim?

He has to know that this puts him at great risk for Trump lashing out every way he can think of.

I know we have no tea leaves to read here, but I'm going to go with the assumption that Mueller knows what he's doing, and that somehow he knows Trump can't stop it now.

It's not Mueller - it's a separate investigation by the NY USAG, with some info from Mueller.

Additionally, if the seized Attorney-Client communications are shown to include evidence of intent to commit a crime/fraud which makes them unprotected communications (as the warrant apparently states in order to get approval), then Mueller can use those for when he does interview Trump.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:08 pm

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:46 pm
Holman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:11 pm What does it mean that Mueller took this step without first getting Trump in for an interview, which seems to have been his aim?

He has to know that this puts him at great risk for Trump lashing out every way he can think of.

I know we have no tea leaves to read here, but I'm going to go with the assumption that Mueller knows what he's doing, and that somehow he knows Trump can't stop it now.
It's not Mueller - it's a separate investigation by the NY USAG, with some info from Mueller.

Additionally, if the seized Attorney-Client communications are shown to include evidence of intent to commit a crime/fraud which makes them unprotected communications (as the warrant apparently states in order to get approval), then Mueller can use those for when he does interview Trump.

Wasn't it "referred" by Mueller? (I don't know the exact legal verbiage.) It seems doubtful that this raid would have gone forward now if Mueller thought it would jeopardize the Russia probe.

In Trump's eyes that's enough, and of course his remarks today were veiled hints that maybe the time has come to get rid of Mueller and Rosenstein (and Sessions too).

Trump doesn't care about legal niceties. He just wants the bad press and inquiries to end so that he can ride the gravy train he thought he'd won. Law is law, and it's getting in the way. Mueller knows that.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:12 pm

Some legal analysis other than Popehat:

However, even Cohen’s attorney Stephen Ryan admits the New York action is, in part, a referral by the Office of Special Counsel, Robert Mueller. (Emphasis ours).

This looks to be part of an ongoing probe in the U.S. Attorney’s Office in the Southern District— meaning the investigation was likely already ongoing, or had been based on another tip. It also appears to go much further than allegations surrounding Cohen’s payment to Stormy Daniels.

“This kind of coordination in multiple searches, in conjunction with news reports that investigators had been looking into Cohen’s business dealings, leads me to believe there is more here than campaign finance violations, but that is impossible to know without seeing the search warrant affidavit, which remains sealed,” explained Daniel Goldman, a former federal prosecutor with the Southern District.

For those already claiming that Mueller has gone “rogue” by searching Cohen’s office, it is worth noting that the interim U.S. Attorney for the Southern District, Geoff Berman, a Trump appointee, would have signed off on this warrant.

“Search warrant for lawyer’s materials requires heightened probable cause and additional layers of review on both the front end and the back end,” Goldman explained.

Not only that as federal defense attorney Page Pate pointed out, Main Justice (i.e. Jeff Sessions’ office) would have also had to be consulted according to DOJ policies about federal searches of attorneys.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:23 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:08 pm
Trump doesn't care about legal niceties. He just wants the bad press and inquiries to end so that he can ride the gravy train he thought he'd won. Law is law, and it's getting in the way. Mueller knows that.

It's always been a given that Trump will go down swinging and cause maximum damage while doing it. I won't say the details don't matter, but they all end with Trump forcibly removed and America in flames. Probably.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:36 pm

From what I've been reading, after asking a couple of people about the $130K payment, Mueller and Rosenstein concluded that it's outside their purview, and that's why it was referred to the NYAG.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:38 pm

#MAGA!

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:03 pm

New report is that Mueller is looking into $150,000 the Trump Organization was paid for a 20 minute video speech by a Ukrainian billionaire. I suppose the question is whether Trump or his campaign promised anything in return.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:12 pm

I love the fact that Trump is being investigated on multiple fronts. Trump is the slipperiest of all treason-weasels, so trying to pin him down on one thing or another had a high chance of him puling some shenanigans to escape. As the charges pile up, however, it gets harder and harder to explain it all away as some witch hunt or left-wing conspiracy.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:13 pm

Accepting foreign money while campaigning for the Presidency has got to be a faux pas at a minimum, no? The optics are terrible.

Considering Russia (read: Putin) and the Ukraine at at serious odds right now and have been since the annexation of Crimea, I'm not sure what the billionaire was hoping to accomplish for only $150,000.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:14 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:03 pm New report is that Mueller is looking into $150,000 the Trump Organization was paid for a 20 minute video speech by a Ukrainian billionaire. I suppose the question is whether Trump or his campaign promised anything in return.

We'll know for sure if we start hearing the rhetoric about Bill and/or Hillary's speeches ramping up.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:23 am

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:14 pm
Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:03 pm New report is that Mueller is looking into $150,000 the Trump Organization was paid for a 20 minute video speech by a Ukrainian billionaire. I suppose the question is whether Trump or his campaign promised anything in return.
We'll know for sure if we start hearing the rhetoric about Bill and/or Hillary's speeches ramping up.

Apparently Trump comes cheap. Victor Pinchuk gave $13M to the Clinton Foundation.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:47 am

I cant wait for the day someone nails Trump's fat orange ass to a wall someplace after he is impeached and incarcerated and that it is continued to be nailed there long after he is out of office.

milo · Post by **milo** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:56 am

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:09 am

milo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:56 am

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:35 am

Rip wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:23 am
Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:14 pm
Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:03 pm New report is that Mueller is looking into $150,000 the Trump Organization was paid for a 20 minute video speech by a Ukrainian billionaire. I suppose the question is whether Trump or his campaign promised anything in return.
We'll know for sure if we start hearing the rhetoric about Bill and/or Hillary's speeches ramping up.
Apparently Trump comes cheap. Victor Pinchuk gave $13M to the Clinton Foundation.

So Trump is corrupt AND stupid.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:16 am

The Greatest At Legals wrote:Attorney–client privilege is dead!

A Saintly Victim of Hysteria wrote:A TOTAL WITCH HUNT!!!

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:01 am

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:04 am

It is ironic that someone who pushed multiple actual witch hunts is bitching about a witch hunt.