BattleTech coming back via Kickstarter

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Sun May 13, 2018 3:23 pm

I sense I am near the end and I'm not ready for this to be over. Assuming I wrap this up over the next week or possibly even today, I am really hope they have more campaigns planned as major DLC for this engine. I could see paying $15-$20 a pop for new stories. I don't think sandboxing would do it for me, which is odd, as this is the sort of game I tend to play like Pokemon or M:tG. I need it all! But I've been mostly satisfied with advancing my company along with the storyline.

Pauses and UI aside, the only truly negative thing I have to say is that that the conversational narrative was literally useless. It didn't draw me in and as far as I can tell my "decisions" had exactly no bearing on what happens in the game. That seem like a waste of programing and scripting and QA hours.

gbasden · Post by **gbasden** » Sun May 13, 2018 3:52 pm

I'll agree - that was my biggest disappointment. They put a lot of effort into the backgrounds and integrating all of that into the conversation tree and yet it doesn't matter in the slightest way.

Cylus Maxii · Post by **Cylus Maxii** » Mon May 14, 2018 5:58 pm

True - but it was a promised feature for whatever Kickstarter funding level.

Stefan Stirzaker · Post by **Stefan Stirzaker** » Mon May 14, 2018 6:06 pm

Have progressed and think im near end. Just done one where had to retrieve some intel <and other stuff happened> but i think that was 10-12 mechs killed plus turrets and shreks. Ended up sacrificing my main character since he cant die as the focus of the last few mechs. Which i think is a bit gaming the system

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Mon May 14, 2018 6:06 pm

Yeah, I'm still waiting for a "more events" mod or a "more scenarios" mod. And if somebody could model those extra JK_Variants tanks so that it doesn't look like a Scorpion is firing SRMs out of its main gun, that'd be great.

DD* · Post by DD* » Tue May 15, 2018 10:48 am

NickAragua wrote:Yeah, I'm still waiting for a "more events" mod or a "more scenarios" mod. And if somebody could model those extra JK_Variants tanks so that it doesn't look like a Scorpion is firing SRMs out of its main gun, that'd be great.

I’m kind of getting burned out on the MOTS factor and think I’ll just focus on the story missions for completeness sake. Still annoyed with the RNGesus factor in combat especially for the way way way too common headshots. Hopefully there will DLC and mods to give it legs because it does have potential as a platform for some good scenarios. Definitely agree that the “choices” you’re given were a complete waste. Wow, another opportunity to make triple F burgers, or donate medical supplies. Yay.

And Kamea is incredibly useless as is her pig of a mech. Would leave her on the bridge of that was an option...

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LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue May 15, 2018 10:57 am

DD* wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 10:48 am Still annoyed with the RNGesus factor in combat especially for the way way way too common headshots.

I have save rage save scrummed over an AC 20 one shotting my 90 ton mechs with max head armor. While I might be shamed, I am not afraid to admit it. I don't mind that getting rolled around causes injuries at the pace it does but one shotting 35% of my power by a lucky roll and essentially destroying a mission in a game where a storyline loss is end of line, nope. I won't ever iron man that sort of game. That's a minor niggle for me though.

IceBear · Post by **IceBear** » Tue May 15, 2018 11:29 am

Just to put it into context in the tabletop game I was running a mercenary campaign for my friends. One of them *really* wanted an Altas and finally after a month of playing managed to buy one. The first contact they took was defending a mining facility from pirates. Two light scout mechs approached. The first mech was a wasp with a medium laser and an SRM2. I shoot at the Atlas and hit. Roll for hit location. Rolled a 12. Head. 5 damage to the head...leaving 4 armor left. Fire srm2. Hit. Roll to see how many hit. Both. Roll to see where the first missile hits...head. 2 damage...2 armor left. Next missile...also head. No armor left. Stinger fires its medium laser. Hit. Roll hit location....you guessed it...head. 5 damage with only 3 points of internal structure left. Before the Atlas ever fired a shot I rolled 4 headshots in a row and killed my friend's mechwarrior

DD* · Post by DD* » Tue May 15, 2018 11:40 am

IceBear wrote:Just to put it into context in the tabletop game I was running a mercenary campaign for my friends. One of them *really* wanted an Altas and finally after a month of playing managed to buy one. The first contact they took was defending a mining facility from pirates. Two light scout mechs approached. The first mech was a wasp with a medium laser and an SRM2. I shoot at the Atlas and hit. Roll for hit location. Rolled a 12. Head. 5 damage to the head...leaving 4 armor left. Fire srm2. Hit. Roll to see how many hit. Both. Roll to see where the first missile hits...head. 2 damage...2 armor left. Next missile...also head. No armor left. Stinger fires its medium laser. Hit. Roll hit location....you guessed it...head. 5 damage with only 3 points of internal structure left. Before the Atlas ever fired a shot I rolled 4 headshots in a row and killed my friend's mechwarrior

But that is an exception - that sort of thing is waaaay too common with this game.

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AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Tue May 15, 2018 12:04 pm

DD* wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 11:40 am But that is an exception - that sort of thing is waaaay too common with this game.

I have not found this to be the case. I've played through the campaign and for a fair bit afterwards, and in that time I've lost three pilots to headshots. Seems reasonable to me (although the mechwarriors I lost might disagree).

IceBear · Post by **IceBear** » Tue May 15, 2018 12:04 pm

I was just pointing out craziness with RNG can happen. In the boardgame all you needed to hit the head was rolling a 12 on 2 six sided dice. Not really that uncommon. I do know from the original alpha videos they had to reduce headshots.

The main issue is you can play a scenario much faster in this game than you could in tabletop so you are seeing a 12 rolled more frequently. I also don't know if they are grouping the missiles like in tabletop or doing them individually which is going to increase the frequency of seeing those 12s even more

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Tue May 15, 2018 12:08 pm

Heh, in the OO mercenary company, our last contract, one of our guys got an Archer, and the poor thing got completely plowed its first mission out.

I doubt we're going to come to an agreement re: actual likelyhood of headshots (most likely the perceived increase in headshot count has to do with the fact that missiles are rolled individually). Edit: I've heard an explanation that "only the first missile in a salvo has a chance of a headshot", but I think it's more like "you're limited to one headshot per missile salvo". When you roll for 20 missiles, chances are you get a 12 every other salvo.

The other way to take mechs out pretty reliable is to knock them down. Pair of earlier phase mechs nail an assault with LRM salvos, first to bring it to "unstable", second to knock it down. That's a pilot damage plus any damage from headshots. Then, the poor sucker gets up... and then you have two more assaults plowing LRMs and AC rounds into him. That's another knockdown. Maybe a side torso gets blown away, that's some more pilot damage. Mechwarriors are definitely squishy (in fact, they're squishier than tabletop, as in TT you have a chance to avoid damage from falls, don't take damage from torso destruction and have six hitpoints).

It just didn't bother me that much, I guess. I would take the occasional headshot, but then that just means a couple weeks off for the mechwarrior (or months in some cases). Considering the number of times I've taken enemy units out with cheap BS knockdown tactics, I feel it's fair repayment that they occasionally get headshots.

IceBear · Post by **IceBear** » Tue May 15, 2018 12:14 pm

I heard with Called Shots they only check with the first missile if you hit where you are aiming. When it comes to normal shots I'm not sure what happens as the damage seems to spread around and watching the flashing location chart I'm sure I saw my arm and torso get hit before my head. I'm just not sure if they are grouping the LRMs into groups of 5....pretty sure they aren't

Yeah I have been focusing on stability damage as a means to taking out mechs

DD* · Post by DD* » Tue May 15, 2018 1:16 pm

I like to knock them off balance as well. I’ve not been overly concerned with salvage so I usually just go for the CT shit as that seems to be the easiest way to kill a mech. If I was more motivated I’d look into how they calculate the hit percentage but it seems a little odd the my pilot can show 90% called shot on a CT, leg or side torso but can never ever break better than 17 or 18 percent on a called headshot. I do think there is something to icebears contention that the game is faster and that leads to some of the bad impressions. Still very frustrating to play a scenario for an hour only to have a certain essential whiny twit get headshot at the end. Restart. Joy. Does not add to the fun factor for the game.

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Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue May 15, 2018 1:25 pm

IceBear wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 12:04 pm I was just pointing out craziness with RNG can happen. In the boardgame all you needed to hit the head was rolling a 12 on 2 six sided dice. Not really that uncommon. I do know from the original alpha videos they had to reduce headshots.

The main issue is you can play a scenario much faster in this game than you could in tabletop so you are seeing a 12 rolled more frequently. I also don't know if they are grouping the missiles like in tabletop or doing them individually which is going to increase the frequency of seeing those 12s even more

There are actually less head hits they way they calculate it than TT, not to mention the breaks on things like crits that aren't near as frequent for the player as they should be. Also no gyro or engine hits.

Anyway the real issue as you say is that we fire many more shots per hour than you could ever hope to in TT.

A player just needs to adapt. Cockpit mods, and focusing on getting the guts skill can help a lot. Just be careful not to get saddled with that useless Juggernaut special ability.

IceBear · Post by **IceBear** » Tue May 15, 2018 1:25 pm

Like Nick, the only "headshots" I've been on the receiving end of is the ones that injure the pilot (and with the cockpit mods that hasn't resulting in any recovery time). I've never been on the receiving end of one that took the head clean off (though in the past 4 or 5 missions I've taken out a few mechs with a headshot). That just means that the law of averages will correct that in an upcoming mission and I'll lose my entire lance to headshots

Fretmute · Post by **Fretmute** » Tue May 15, 2018 1:28 pm

For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain that the hit table is in the combat constants file, and you could tweak it to your liking. I believe I saw it in there when I was increasing the vision range.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue May 15, 2018 1:37 pm

IceBear wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 12:14 pm I heard with Called Shots they only check with the first missile if you hit where you are aiming. When it comes to normal shots I'm not sure what happens as the damage seems to spread around and watching the flashing location chart I'm sure I saw my arm and torso get hit before my head. I'm just not sure if they are grouping the LRMs into groups of 5....pretty sure they aren't

Yeah I have been focusing on stability damage as a means to taking out mechs

The only missile in any salvo(group of missiles fired from a single weapon) that has a chance to hit the head is the first, if it hits the rest in the salvo misses. If the first misses so do the rest. Head hits are without a doubt less frequent in the game than TT. TT odds are 2% and in the game the weighted averages are a tad over 1%.

Just for the record, the 1% is a rounded value. It gets flung around so much in this discussion that this might confuse players into believing that it is the intended exact value, which is isn't. Not that his makes any difference to your argument, but I thought it bore mentioning.

The weighted odds of hitting a mech in the head is 1/81 ~ 1.23% when hit from the front, 1/89 ~ 1.12% when hit from the side, 1/97 ~ 1.03% when hit while prone, 0/92 = 0% when hit by artillery.

There's also an entry for hitting from the top, where the odds of hitting the head are 16/112 ~ 14.29%. According to the developer comment earlier in the thread when I asked whether elevation mattered the answer was that it had been tried in development and caused too many headshots to be fun, so it didn't matter in the released game, which means that this entry is either legacy code or, possibly, used for DFA attacks.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/in ... 31/page-27

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue May 15, 2018 2:25 pm

Head shots are all well and good, but what I want to know is why I can't target a mech's legs from the rear. And the AI knows it -- twice today, I had mechs turn their backs to me after losing a leg, which prevented me from from targetting the remaining leg until I knocked them down.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Tue May 15, 2018 5:14 pm

It's a little known fact that all mechs actually have really long cloaks.

I got nothing though. I read a dev diary by one of the devs where they said they wanted to make back shots more painful, thus they eliminated arms and legs from consideration. Guess nobody thought that people would *want* to shoot a mech in the legs when they can eliminate the salvage instead by destroying torso sections!

On the plus side, 1.03 patch with less stuttering, fewer permanently depressed mechwarriors and disappearing mechs and fixes for achievements (?).

https://www.reddit.com/r/Battletechgame ... s/dz12oal/

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Tue May 15, 2018 5:43 pm

NickAragua wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 5:14 pm It's a little known fact that all mechs actually have really long cloaks.

Giant Robot Combat Tip #455: Always squat to hide your legs when an enemy is behind you.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue May 15, 2018 5:50 pm

You can't target the elbows either. What craziness.......

DD* · Post by DD* » Tue May 15, 2018 7:47 pm

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Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue May 15, 2018 8:33 pm

Rip wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 5:50 pm You can't target the elbows either. What craziness.......

I used to be a mercenary like you, until I took an LRM to the knee.

DD* · Post by DD* » Wed May 16, 2018 6:45 pm

Max Peck wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 8:33 pm
Rip wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 5:50 pm You can't target the elbows either. What craziness.......

I used to be a mercenary like you, until I took an LRM to the knee.

Well played sir. Well played indeed.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu May 17, 2018 7:07 am

Beatened the game last night.

The last couple of missions...

Spoiler:

In-Game time along the lines of 230 weeks. I had every Argo upgrade done, and four MechWarriors with 10's across the board (the other three were 10's and 9's). Two 100t Mechs in my bays, and a LOT of other Mechs in Storage - from one of each variant of Locust to a couple Grasshoppers,a spare Black Knight, a Stalker, a Zeus, a Battlemaster, a Banshee, five Orions (4 V's and a K), etc...

I'm probably not going to turn around and run through this a second time immediately. I need a little break, and would like to wait for a couple patches and maybe some DLC before I get into it again. Overall, though, I really enjoyed the game.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Thu May 17, 2018 9:28 am

Yeah, I agree with you re: the last missions.

Spoiler:

killbot737 · Post by **killbot737** » Sat May 19, 2018 6:42 am

It took me a long time, but I finally figured out what was so familiar about this game. The music on ground missions is Very similar to one of the battle songs in Star Trek Online. Maybe they hired the same music studio?

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Sat May 19, 2018 10:08 am

With BattleTech done do I go back to Into the Breach, Railway Empire, Invisible, Inc, Factorio, Surviving Mars, Darkest Dungeon, start my free copy of Crusader Kings II or get something new?

I'm so confused.

I think I've managed to decide to hold off on going back to Darkest Dungeon until the Color from Outerspace inspired DLC is released.

Factorio, Railway Empire, and Surviving Mars are all feeling too sandboxy for me atm, which is why I bought Battletech in the first place.

I'm ascared that vanilla CKII will achieve it's intended purpose and make me spend obscene amounts of money for DLC that I don't understand (as would going back to Stellaris, which I've been meaning to do)

I'm totally the kid you never give choices too...

Is a new, longer, storyline where decisions are meaningful available by DLC yet? Because that's what I want to play. (and yet I don't even have a tiny urge to replay the first stoyline that I enjoyed. Weird)

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sat May 19, 2018 10:15 am

killbot737 wrote: Sat May 19, 2018 6:42 am It took me a long time, but I finally figured out what was so familiar about this game. The music on ground missions is Very similar to one of the battle songs in Star Trek Online. Maybe they hired the same music studio?

Jon Everist is the composer.

He did Shadownrun and I believe Necropolis music.

http://everistsound.com/blog/2017/4/5/b ... he-music-1

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Thu May 24, 2018 11:30 pm

wonderpug wrote: Thu May 10, 2018 8:51 am Halp with ammo crate mission please. I could use some general tips on what kind of mechs to field, and general strategy for how best to approach the mission.

Have hit the wall with this mission. I read all of the various tips and may have to rethink my lance.
Pretty much everything I've tried has failed miserably to this point.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri May 25, 2018 9:24 am

stimpy wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 11:30 pm
wonderpug wrote: Thu May 10, 2018 8:51 am Halp with ammo crate mission please. I could use some general tips on what kind of mechs to field, and general strategy for how best to approach the mission.
Have hit the wall with this mission. I read all of the various tips and may have to rethink my lance.
Pretty much everything I've tried has failed miserably to this point.

Is you goal perfection or just to get through? What mechs are you using?

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Fri May 25, 2018 9:34 am

LordMortis wrote: Sat May 19, 2018 10:08 am With BattleTech done do I go back to Into the Breach, Railway Empire, Invisible, Inc, Factorio, Surviving Mars, Darkest Dungeon, start my free copy of Crusader Kings II or get something new?

I started playing Templar Battleforce. It's more Space Hulk than battletech but it's scratching my turn-based tactical itch.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Fri May 25, 2018 9:34 am

stimpy wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 11:30 pm
wonderpug wrote: Thu May 10, 2018 8:51 am Halp with ammo crate mission please. I could use some general tips on what kind of mechs to field, and general strategy for how best to approach the mission.
Have hit the wall with this mission. I read all of the various tips and may have to rethink my lance.
Pretty much everything I've tried has failed miserably to this point.

I ended up doing random missions for a while to get a better mech or two. I couldn't take the first fleeing transport out in one salvo, so I let that one go. I also think I blew up enough ammo crates to only get the second-best goal for keeping them intact, not the best goal. Honestly if I were hitting a wall like you I'd just ignore the fleeing trucks entirely. You can always make up the cash you miss out on later.

For what it's worth, the storyline missions get way more doable again after you move past the ammo crate.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Fri May 25, 2018 9:48 am

Archinerd wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 9:34 am
LordMortis wrote: Sat May 19, 2018 10:08 am With BattleTech done do I go back to Into the Breach, Railway Empire, Invisible, Inc, Factorio, Surviving Mars, Darkest Dungeon, start my free copy of Crusader Kings II or get something new?

I started playing Templar Battleforce. It's more Space Hulk than battletech but it's scratching my turn-based tactical itch.

Man, that is such a good game. Only bad thing about it is that it has about two music tracks, each about thirty seconds long, they loop endlessly and are quire annoying. Easily remedied by turning the music off, though.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri May 25, 2018 9:55 am

Archinerd wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 9:34 am I started playing Templar Battleforce. It's more Space Hulk than battletech but it's scratching my turn-based tactical itch.

I find your idea intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter... (I also believe given your posts your computer gaming preferences and mine run pretty close)

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3700 ... ttleforce/

At $10 your idea just got even more intriguing....

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Fri May 25, 2018 10:14 am

NickAragua wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 9:48 am
Archinerd wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 9:34 am
LordMortis wrote: Sat May 19, 2018 10:08 am With BattleTech done do I go back to Into the Breach, Railway Empire, Invisible, Inc, Factorio, Surviving Mars, Darkest Dungeon, start my free copy of Crusader Kings II or get something new?

I started playing Templar Battleforce. It's more Space Hulk than battletech but it's scratching my turn-based tactical itch.
Man, that is such a good game. Only bad thing about it is that it has about two music tracks, each about thirty seconds long, they loop endlessly and are quire annoying. Easily remedied by turning the music off, though.

I hadn't noticed that, I almost always turn music off in games. Initially, I thought the graphic were terrible too but those have actually grown on me.

LordMortis wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 9:55 am

I find your idea intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter... (I also believe given your posts your computer gaming preferences and mine run pretty close)
At $10 your idea just got even more intriguing....

There is a bit of learning curve at the start, lots of talents and unlocks that you don't really know what it all means. Luckily it's pretty forgiving as you can Respec your individual soldiers between missions for free. The big "tech tree" unlock thing is permanent though, I think.
My suggestion is don't buy anything on that until your soldiers hit talent / equipment caps.

And with that I'm done because this thread is supposed to be about Battletech.

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Fri May 25, 2018 5:21 pm

I think part of what is holding me back is lack of knowledge on how to upgrade my current mechs.
If it has a LRM5 and I try to change it to an LRM10, it goes over tonnage. So I assume I have to remove something, but don't know what and can only figure anything I remove will only make me weaker, which seems counterproductive.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri May 25, 2018 7:46 pm

stimpy wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 5:21 pm I think part of what is holding me back is lack of knowledge on how to upgrade my current mechs.
If it has a LRM5 and I try to change it to an LRM10, it goes over tonnage. So I assume I have to remove something, but don't know what and can only figure anything I remove will only make me weaker, which seems counterproductive.

That's the balancing act. For instance, if you are going LRM heavy, stripping down armor is OK.... as long as you know you are always going in with a thumb to get bloody. Also looking at heat and jumping jets.

I don't changed all my mechs around drastically based on their hard points but I have a LordMortis way of doing things, so I can't tell you what's up, other than ironically if you are going to built an HTH mech, other than small lasers, flamers, and MG, short weapons are mostly counter productive. I was probably half way through the campaign before that truly sunk in even if I knew the mechanic going into the first battle. The only way for for short range weapons like MLs and SRMS and AC 20s to work with an HTH mech is to to commit to them to the point overheating and the alternating with melee and (usually targetting) crazy heat build up attacks. But that doesn't help you with your supply problem.

With the supply problem I would say pick your explosions. If your not going for perfect then use them to take out the convoys and then draw the enemy to you on the hill where you can move in and of cover and use high ground to your advantage. Also scout the turrets. If you have 95% chance to hit and the math say you can take them out in one salvo then take out a turret before doing random armor damage to a mech.

Stefan Stirzaker · Post by **Stefan Stirzaker** » Sat May 26, 2018 10:17 am

Finally finished.

My final three were Dekker, Weasel and Rambo (yes dekker is still alive!)

Unfortunately my main guy, Fluffybunny, was injured in the preceeding mission and couldn't make it to the end.

Great game, solid structure, once they get the memory leaks and stability sorted, it'll last a long time. Concentrate on some other games for a few weeks then back to this and explore the universe