Shootings

[pr0ner]

Please get a clue and take your trolling elsewhere, em2nought.

[YellowKing]

The biggest problem with the right-wing is a complete lack of empathy. When your reaction to a bunch of children getting murdered is a shrug of your shoulders and some jokes, why should we be surprised when you don't give two shits about healthcare or helping the poor?

[em2nought]

why should we be surprised when you don't give two shits about helping the poor?

I've never helped a poor person who hasn't shit on me in return. Hopefully, I've finally learned my lesson there.

[GreenGoo]

Charity isn't about the charitable.

I'm sorry you've had bad experiences. It can be discouraging. It's easy to become cynical and frustrated.

Not everyone is worthy of helping, but if we never help because of some bad apples, a lot of good people will continue to suffer. Do those people deserve what they get because other people are shitty?

What's more important, helping good people or withholding help from shitty people?

[Skinypupy]

Charity isn't about the charitable.

I'm sorry you've had bad experiences. It can be discouraging. It's easy to become cynical and frustrated.

Not everyone is worthy of helping, but if we never help because of some bad apples, a lot of good people will continue to suffer. Do those people deserve what they get because other people are shitty?

What's more important, helping good people or withholding help from shitty people?

Therein lies the fundamental problem though. When your guiding principle in life is “I got mine, so fuck you”, then any sort of charity is viewed as weakness. Why should they help when those lazy poors just need to work harder?

[em2nought]

Charity isn't about the charitable.

I'm sorry you've had bad experiences. It can be discouraging. It's easy to become cynical and frustrated.

Not everyone is worthy of helping, but if we never help because of some bad apples, a lot of good people will continue to suffer. Do those people deserve what they get because other people are shitty?

What's more important, helping good people or withholding help from shitty people?

Therein lies the fundamental problem though. When your guiding principle in life is “I got mine, so fuck you”, then any sort of charity is viewed as weakness. Why should they help when those lazy poors just need to work harder?

Oh please!

I have had some very very very bad experiences with helping people. I'll probably still try in the future(because I seem to be stupid in that way), I just wish I had some sort of radar to better tell me who to help, and who to run from.

[Skinypupy]

When you (both the collective conservative “you” and you personally) stop vehemently supporting legislation that disproportionally fucks over the less fortunate/minority/disabled/etc in order to support the wealthy majority, then maybe the rest of us will start believing you don’t actually live by that creed.

[hepcat]

I have had some very very very bad experiences with helping people. I'll probably still try in the future(because I seem to be stupid in that way), I just wish I had some sort of radar to better tell me who to help, and who to run from.

Your posting history makes me dubious about this claim.

[em2nought]

I have had some very very very bad experiences with helping people. I'll probably still try in the future(because I seem to be stupid in that way), I just wish I had some sort of radar to better tell me who to help, and who to run from.

Your posting history makes me dubious about this claim.

Doesn't quite fit the narrative you've got going in your head?

[hepcat]

Doesn’t quite fit the humanity you frequently fail to display.

[Zaxxon]

lolz.

[RuperT]

Doesn’t quite fit the humanity you frequently fail to display.

Do you think he was born this way?

[Daehawk]

Texas Lt. Governor blames doors for shootings. Says theres too many of them. Fewer doors = fewer shootings.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/19/us/texas ... index.html

Twitter is already having fun with his words...



As a side note Id like to point out Ive posted some stupid stuff and some assholey stuff in my time and yet Isgrimnur out of the blue got me a part for my lawnmower which Ive been unable to purchase in nearly 4 years and sent it to me...out ...of...the.,...blue. That makes him twice as good a person than buying it for a nice happy guy And I will not shit on him. Id mow his damn yard if he was next door

If you want to help someone and can without harming yourself then why not do it? You did your thing and can feel good about it. Being thankful is on them. They can still be an ass to you somehow but the good deed is checked off on your side and in the end thats what matters.

[Alefroth]

I have had some very very very bad experiences with helping people.

Maybe it's you.

[GungHo]

Ak

Not just that. He used a revolver and a shotgun. So I guess those assault and semi-automatic weapons bans will need extended to those.

It should also be noted how this all happened in Texas, where anyone can wear a gun on their hip.... yet that didn't stop it. So hard to wrap my head around that.

I believe there were 2 armed officers on this campus as well, one of whom is in either serious or critical condition and last i read may lose an arm.

EDIT: In fairness about the doors, and i believe Lt. Dan is an asshat, I *think* his point is that there should only be one point of entrance to a school. Ala Wal-Mart or a bank. You’d keep all of the other doors as emergency exits but you wouldnt be able to enter the building thru them. Its a reasonable thought I think, but as a citizen of the state of Texas who has a kid in public schools I’d point out that this, in my experience anyway, is already the case here. Neither parents nor students are able to enter my son’s school through any door except the front door. Now it is true that the kids re-enter the school through a side door after recess and I suppose Lt. Dan is suggesting that those doors remained sealed even for these kinds of activities. Again I dont suppose thats unreasonable. Maybe you just keep an armed officer in the front office where the only door is...but then like I said the school in Santa Fe had 2 officers. Quite obviously I dont have the answers

[Xmann]

Ak

Not just that. He used a revolver and a shotgun. So I guess those assault and semi-automatic weapons bans will need extended to those.

It should also be noted how this all happened in Texas, where anyone can wear a gun on their hip.... yet that didn't stop it. So hard to wrap my head around that.

I believe there were 2 armed officers on this campus as well, one of whom is in either serious or critical condition and last i read may lose an arm.

EDIT: In fairness about the doors, and i believe Lt. Dan is an asshat, I *think* his point is that there should only be one point of entrance to a school. Ala Wal-Mart or a bank. You’d keep all of the other doors as emergency exits but you wouldnt be able to enter the building thru them. Its a reasonable thought I think, but as a citizen of the state of Texas who has a kid in public schools I’d point out that this, in my experience anyway, is already the case here. Neither parents nor students are able to enter my son’s school through any door except the front door. Now it is true that the kids re-enter the school through a side door after recess and I suppose Lt. Dan is suggesting that those doors remained sealed even for these kinds of activities. Again I dont suppose thats unreasonable. Maybe you just keep an armed officer in the front office where the only door is...but then like I said the school in Santa Fe had 2 officers. Quite obviously I dont have the answers

I agree with your sentiment as well.

My son is completing his freshman year next week here in Colorado. To say these shootings has me extremely worried is an understatement. I practically have panic attacks when they happen and my first instinct is to immediately go get my son and take him home.

But back on topic, my son's school has 1 entrance at the front for all students and visitors. Right inside that entrance is the security desk with 2 armed security officers sitting right there. However, there's side doors the kids go in and out all the time. I gotta believe in an emergency, there would not be an issue of getting people out rapidly. In fact, they do have active shooter drills regularly and I'm sure that's part of the process. And now that I write this, I do feel a better sense of safety with his school. It's not by any means foolproof, but it makes me feel that someone bringing a weapon in has to work a bit harder at it since it's a closed campus.

However, to use doors as a reason for casualties is ridiculous.

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[Kraken]

Doesn’t quite fit the humanity you frequently fail to display.

Do you think he was born this way?

We are all born primal.

And the fact that we're discussing turning schools into fortresses makes me think we've missed the point.

[hepcat]

Doesn’t quite fit the humanity you frequently fail to display.

Do you think he was born this way?

My flippant reply shouldn’t be given too much weight. I don’t truly think he’s a monster. I just see what I feel is a lack of empathy in quite a few of his posts. Some I can chalk up to trolling, but after a while you have to wonder.

[Holman]

The NRA is all over the place with its explanations for school shootings, but this time they're trying to blame it on over-prescription of medications.

Kind of raises the question of why kids on these medications but without easy access to guns aren't going on knife or chainsaw sprees.

[Carpet_pissr]

"Using statistics compiled from US Defense Department statements, the total number of student — excluding even teachers, administrative and maintenance personnel — shooting deaths in schools exceeds all US military casualties in 2018 to date, according to a deep data dive by the Washington Post."

Let that sink in.

[LawBeefaroni]

The NRA is all over the place with its explanations for school shootings, but this time they're trying to blame it on over-prescription of medications.

Kind of raises the question of why kids on these medications but without easy access to guns aren't going on knife or chainsaw sprees.

The school shooting blueprint is out there. These kids know what school shootings are and probably have this romanticized notion about what it means to be a shooter. And firearms give some people a feeling of great power.. Mostly because they are the most effective weapon an individual can wield. You combine the two, throw in a little over-medication and a bad event or two, and there you go. I know it's verboten to give these kids a platform but asking them why they did it, and why they chose firearms, might be enlightening.

And obviously a stabbing spree is going to get cut short a lot sooner than a shooting one. One or two stabbings isn't going to make the national news. It does happen. May 4, 2018.. May 15th arrest. Against the backdrop of double digit shooting casualties though, understandably not talked about.

[Combustible Lemur]

"Using statistics compiled from US Defense Department statements, the total number of student — excluding even teachers, administrative and maintenance personnel — shooting deaths in schools exceeds all US military casualties in 2018 to date, according to a deep data dive by the Washington Post."

Let that sink in.

Well obviously. The world is scary and dangerous and these snowflake children aren't armed or trained to defend themselves. Obviously we need them trained in run hide fight and concealed carry in elementary, just so long as you don't make a second language compulsory.

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[LawBeefaroni]

"Using statistics compiled from US Defense Department statements, the total number of student — excluding even teachers, administrative and maintenance personnel — shooting deaths in schools exceeds all US military casualties in 2018 to date, according to a deep data dive by the Washington Post."

Let that sink in.

WaPo says 27 school shooting deaths so far in 2018 (2 incidents). Yes, that is horrifying. But it's a weird comparison considering that most military deaths came from accidents and we are fighting mostly by proxy.


Chicago has had 178 shooting homicides so far in 2018. That's more than all US mass shootings (not just school shootings) and military deaths combined. And multiplied at least twice. Approximately 20 of those were individuals 18-years-old or younger (including several under 4). And it's been a cold 2018 so far.

[Pyperkub]

Doesn’t quite fit the humanity you frequently fail to display.

Do you think he was born this way?

We are all born primal.

And the fact that we're discussing turning schools into fortresses makes me think we've missed the point.

Well we're building more prisons that schools and we pay prison guards more than teachers... and we pay more to lock someone up for a year than we pay teachers for a year....

[Moliere]

Chicago has had 178 shooting homicides so far in 2018. That's more than all US mass shootings (not just school shootings) and military deaths combined. And multiplied at least twice. Approximately 20 of those were individuals 18-years-old or younger (including several under 4). And it's been a cold 2018 so far.

‘Family Guy’ Shows Exactly How to Make the Media Disappear

Brown: Wait a minute. Peter didn't shoot my son. I did. Peter was just taking the blame for me. He's a good friend.

Takanawa: Eh, Mr. Brown, what exactly are you saying?

Brown: I'm saying that I, Cleveland Brown, a black man, shot Cleveland Brown, Jr., another black man.

Peter Griffin: Wait, wh-where did everybody go?

Brown: You want to make the media go away? Just mention black-on-black crime.

[Moliere]

Well we're building more prisons that schools and we pay prison guards more than teachers... and we pay more to lock someone up for a year than we pay teachers for a year....

I call for legalizing weed, pardon all current non-violent drug offenders in prison, and putting a percentage of the taxes earned on weed sales towards education/restitution. That alone would empty out the prisons.

[Skinypupy]

Well we're building more prisons that schools and we pay prison guards more than teachers... and we pay more to lock someone up for a year than we pay teachers for a year....

I call for legalizing weed, pardon all current non-violent drug offenders in prison, and putting a percentage of the taxes earned on weed sales towards education/restitution. That alone would empty out the prisons.

Blasphemy! Those privatized prisons won't fund themselves!!

[em2nought]

Where a good chunk of the blame belongs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3VQULy ... e=youtu.be

How the American Media Fuels A Cycle of Violence

[em2nought]

Texas Lt. Governor blames doors for shootings. Says theres too many of them. Fewer doors = fewer shootings.

[hepcat]

Where a good chunk of the blame belongs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3VQULy ... e=youtu.be

How the American Media Fuels A Cycle of Violence

They also have a video called What if Godzilla were Real.

[Pyperkub]

Well we're building more prisons that schools and we pay prison guards more than teachers... and we pay more to lock someone up for a year than we pay teachers for a year....

I call for legalizing weed, pardon all current non-violent drug offenders in prison, and putting a percentage of the taxes earned on weed sales towards education/restitution. That alone would empty out the prisons.

I found this article about Evangelical prison reform interesting.

this line was the key however:

The incarceration rate in this country is just insane," Moore said. "And because of that, most evangelicals, myself included, have a connection to the issue...we've seen it with our own eyes. And now's the time to speak up."

Another big factor that has brought more white evangelical congregations face to face with the prison system is the opioid epidemic, said Craig DeRoche, senior vice president for advocacy and public policy with the evangelical group Prison Fellowship. The group has been involved in discussions with the White House.

"It stopped becoming an issue of the people who have criminal justice involvement as being 'those people,' to, 'wait a second, I know these people,'" DeRoche said in an interview.

Kudos for finally realizing it, but jiminy crickets there's a whole lot of institutional racism hidden in that statement vis a vis Opiods and Pot.

[Xmann]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/21/politics ... index.html

and there you go

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[Moliere]

The Best Explanation for Our Spate of Mass Shootings Is the Least Comforting By Malcolm Gladwell

In a famous essay published four decades ago, the Stanford sociologist Mark Granovetter set out to explain a paradox: “situations where outcomes do not seem intuitively consistent with the underlying individual preferences.” What explains a person or a group of people doing things that seem at odds with who they are or what they think is right? Granovetter took riots as one of his main examples, because a riot is a case of destructive violence that involves a great number of otherwise quite normal people who would not usually be disposed to violence.
...
But Granovetter thought it was a mistake to focus on the decision-making processes of each rioter in isolation. In his view, a riot was not a collection of individuals, each of whom arrived independently at the decision to break windows. A riot was a social process, in which people did things in reaction to and in combination with those around them. Social processes are driven by our thresholds—which he defined as the number of people who need to be doing some activity before we agree to join them. In the elegant theoretical model Granovetter proposed, riots were started by people with a threshold of zero—instigators willing to throw a rock through a window at the slightest provocation. Then comes the person who will throw a rock if someone else goes first. He has a threshold of one. Next in is the person with the threshold of two. His qualms are overcome when he sees the instigator and the instigator’s accomplice. Next to him is someone with a threshold of three, who would never break windows and loot stores unless there were three people right in front of him who were already doing that—and so on up to the hundredth person, a righteous upstanding citizen who nonetheless could set his beliefs aside and grab a camera from the broken window of the electronics store if everyone around him was grabbing cameras from the electronics store.

As it relates to mass shootings, the threshold continues to get lowered with each incident. The type of person who would not have done anything 10-15 years ago is tomorrow's shooter.

In the day of Eric Harris, we could try to console ourselves with the thought that there was nothing we could do, that no law or intervention or restrictions on guns could make a difference in the face of someone so evil. But the riot has now engulfed the boys who were once content to play with chemistry sets in the basement. The problem is not that there is an endless supply of deeply disturbed young men who are willing to contemplate horrific acts. It’s worse. It’s that young men no longer need to be deeply disturbed to contemplate horrific acts.

[LawBeefaroni]

The Best Explanation for Our Spate of Mass Shootings Is the Least Comforting By Malcolm Gladwell

In a famous essay published four decades ago, the Stanford sociologist Mark Granovetter set out to explain a paradox: “situations where outcomes do not seem intuitively consistent with the underlying individual preferences.” What explains a person or a group of people doing things that seem at odds with who they are or what they think is right? Granovetter took riots as one of his main examples, because a riot is a case of destructive violence that involves a great number of otherwise quite normal people who would not usually be disposed to violence.
...
But Granovetter thought it was a mistake to focus on the decision-making processes of each rioter in isolation. In his view, a riot was not a collection of individuals, each of whom arrived independently at the decision to break windows. A riot was a social process, in which people did things in reaction to and in combination with those around them. Social processes are driven by our thresholds—which he defined as the number of people who need to be doing some activity before we agree to join them. In the elegant theoretical model Granovetter proposed, riots were started by people with a threshold of zero—instigators willing to throw a rock through a window at the slightest provocation. Then comes the person who will throw a rock if someone else goes first. He has a threshold of one. Next in is the person with the threshold of two. His qualms are overcome when he sees the instigator and the instigator’s accomplice. Next to him is someone with a threshold of three, who would never break windows and loot stores unless there were three people right in front of him who were already doing that—and so on up to the hundredth person, a righteous upstanding citizen who nonetheless could set his beliefs aside and grab a camera from the broken window of the electronics store if everyone around him was grabbing cameras from the electronics store.

As it relates to mass shootings, the threshold continues to get lowered with each incident. The type of person who would not have done anything 10-15 years ago is tomorrow's shooter.

In the day of Eric Harris, we could try to console ourselves with the thought that there was nothing we could do, that no law or intervention or restrictions on guns could make a difference in the face of someone so evil. But the riot has now engulfed the boys who were once content to play with chemistry sets in the basement. The problem is not that there is an endless supply of deeply disturbed young men who are willing to contemplate horrific acts. It’s worse. It’s that young men no longer need to be deeply disturbed to contemplate horrific acts.

This has kind of jives with a gut feeling I haven't really tried to articulate. No idea if it's actually correct or soundly based but it just feels correct.

[LawBeefaroni]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/21/politics ... index.html

and there you go

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Agree that it's largely asinine but CNN is doing no one any favors with their flippant analysis.

Here are the six reasons he cited:

...

2. Abortion
"We have 50 million abortions. We have families that are broken apart, no fathers at home. We have incredible heinous violence as a [video] game, two hours a day in front of their eyes. And we stand here and we wonder why this happens to certain students."

He's not saying abortions are the cause. He may be saying they're another symptom (not sure, it reads like an unrelated talking point he just threw in there, and I'm pretty sure the 50M number is wrong). But putting Abortion as a "reason" is kind of adding noise just for the sake of having a top-6 list.


I mean they didn't pick up on the "no fathers at home" when this guy used his father's guns? But they include his abortion non-sequitur?




This whole "gun debate' is so frustrating.

[Isgrimnur]

[Moliere]

This has kind of jives with a gut feeling I haven't really tried to articulate. No idea if it's actually correct or soundly based but it just feels correct.

I wish more people in this thread would discuss it. It's an interesting perspective. Unfortunately most seem to be more interested in mocking or every time some idiot Republican wants to blame doorways and teh gays.

[Blackhawk]

From that article:

the subculture of mass shooters

That is a very distinct and thought-provoking phrasing.

[malchior]

I'm sure thresholds have some impact but the number of weapons out there probably has way *more* impact. Absent confiscation--which won't happen--if we had sane policy making processes we could try experiments such as adopting the model the Swiss use which is that the police have more power to intervene to stop troubled persons from having weapons. But that isn't even close to possible with our broken politics.

[Rip]

I'm sure thresholds have some impact but the number of weapons out there probably has way *more* impact. Absent confiscation--which won't happen--if we had sane policy making processes we could try experiments such as adopting the model the Swiss use which is that the police have more power to intervene to stop troubled persons from having weapons. But that isn't even close to possible with our broken politics.

Here's the thing, we already have tons of them involving people that were already not supposed to have weapons.

The suspect in the school shooting in Dixon Illinois appeared in court for the first time Friday.

19-year-old Matthew Milby pleaded not guilty.

Prosecutors say he took a rifle to Dixon High School on Wednesday morning and shot at a school resource officer who returned fire.

Milby's family packed the courtroom and shouted words of encouragement.

Now questions are arising about how Milby’s mother bought the gun in the first place.

WGN Investigates has confirmed Julie Milby is a convicted felon who should not have been allowed to legally purchase a gun.

The Illinois State Police has confirmed Julie Milby purchased the 9-mm semi-automatic rifle her son brought to school Wednesday. But court records in Florida show her criminal history should have been a red flag on a background check.

http://wgntv.com/2018/05/18/as-a-convic ... e-had-gun/


I suspect most departments are already neck deep in higher priority work. They have become notoriously backlogged even doing simple things like serving warrants on people they have authority to arrest. Not even a new problem. Been like that for awhile.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... be4d17fb1

"You can't walk down the street today without passing somebody who is wanted," said William Bonk, a U.S. Marshals Service agent who formerly headed the D.C. Joint Fugitive Task Force of local and federal law enforcement agencies.

In most jurisdictions, a vast majority of the outstanding warrants--court orders authorizing police to pick someone up--involve minor offenses such as traffic violations, petty thefts or missed court dates. Yet these warrants clog up law enforcement computers and actually help serious felons escape notice, officials contend.

As Crutchfield's case shows, the apprehension of wanted criminals depends as much on pure chance as high-powered technology or gumshoe detective work.

"Most people wanted on a warrant still get picked up in traffic stops," said Lt. John Russell, an Arizona sheriff and National Sheriffs' Association fellow.

That is from 2000 and it has only gotten worse.