“Undocumented” or “unauthorized” refers to students who are not U.S. citizens or permanent residents of the United States, who do not hold a visa to reside in the U.S., and who have not applied for legal residency in the U.S. These individuals are not “illegal.” Not only is the term “illegal” inaccurate, it is dehumanizing. As Elie Wiesel, Holocaust survivor and Nobel Peace Prize winner, famously stated, “No human being is illegal.” When referring to an individual who is residing in the United Stated without authorization from the federal government, we would encourage you to drop the “i-word” in favor of terms such as “undocumented” or “unauthorized” immigrant.
noxiousdog wrote: Tue May 22, 2018 10:54 am
At the same time, I have no problem calling an illegal immigrant an illegal immigrant and don't particularly care if it hurts their feelings.
I do. I have mexican american friends who have had friends/family who have come to america to work, and some of whom have been deported. I've also had contractor work on my house who likely hired people without green cards to do work, and I treat them like anyone else, friendly and glad for good work. I've lived in Los Angeles with Mexican neighbors, some of whom may have been here illegally, or had friends/family members who were here illegally looking for work and to be with family.
they are still members of the community and to be a good friend or neighbor, I would never be such a dick to go all MAGA on them.
Calling someone who immigrated illegally an illegal immigrant isn't an attack on them, it isn't a judgment, and it isn't disrespectful. It is simply the term for them in the context of what they did. It isn't the same as spitting 'criminal' at them in an attempt to equate them with violent felons, or 'animals' to make them seem less-than-human.
1. You don't generally know that they don't have a green card,or were born in east la. So calling them illegal without proof is a dick move,and why would you so that in the first place? That's a great conversation opener -gee, are you here illegally?
2. It cam alai be a veiled threat - don't piss me if our I'll call ICE on your illegal ass.
If you're a guest at a party, you don't start speculating on who is here legally and who may not be, it's a dick MAGA move.
It's a good thing we aren't talking about conjecture or calling legal immigrants illegal, then.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
Rip wrote: Tue May 22, 2018 5:21 pm
Then allow me to make the defense easy. I have no choice of political affiliation that lacks ties to hate organizations. They all have ties to hate groups.
Except you see hate group in anything you simply don’t agree with. That’s not how this works. There's a huge difference between someone asking you to not call another human being an animal and the Aryan Nation.
“Undocumented” or “unauthorized” refers to students who are not U.S. citizens or permanent residents of the United States, who do not hold a visa to reside in the U.S., and who have not applied for legal residency in the U.S. These individuals are not “illegal.” Not only is the term “illegal” inaccurate, it is dehumanizing. As Elie Wiesel, Holocaust survivor and Nobel Peace Prize winner, famously stated, “No human being is illegal.” When referring to an individual who is residing in the United Stated without authorization from the federal government, we would encourage you to drop the “i-word” in favor of terms such as “undocumented” or “unauthorized” immigrant.
Rip wrote: Tue May 22, 2018 5:21 pm
Then allow me to make the defense easy. I have no choice of political affiliation that lacks ties to hate organizations. They all have ties to hate groups.
Except you see hate group in anything you simply don’t agree with. That’s not how this works. There's a huge difference between someone asking you to not call another human being an animal and the Aryan Nation.
“Undocumented” or “unauthorized” refers to students who are not U.S. citizens or permanent residents of the United States, who do not hold a visa to reside in the U.S., and who have not applied for legal residency in the U.S. These individuals are not “illegal.” Not only is the term “illegal” inaccurate, it is dehumanizing. As Elie Wiesel, Holocaust survivor and Nobel Peace Prize winner, famously stated, “No human being is illegal.” When referring to an individual who is residing in the United Stated without authorization from the federal government, we would encourage you to drop the “i-word” in favor of terms such as “undocumented” or “unauthorized” immigrant.
So now you hate Elie Wiesel. Great.
Why would I hate her? I just think she is wrong.
It is easy to say I see hate group in anything I don't agree with. Which organization in particular that I consider a hate group are you disagreeing with? Let's avoid the straw man and talk about some specific groups.
p.s. neither of those groups are closely associated with dems or liberals, except in your head. Now go find a couple of instances of extremists who call themselves either dem or liberal supporting one of those groups so you can return to your love of hyperbole.
Last edited by hepcat on Tue May 22, 2018 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
hepcat wrote: Tue May 22, 2018 6:13 pm
Movin' the goal post:
p.s. neither of those groups are closely associated with dems or liberals, except in your head. Now go find a couple of instances of extremists who call themselves either dem or liberal supporting one of those groups so you can return to your love of hyperbole.
Last edited by Rip on Tue May 22, 2018 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Trump wrote:You know why I do it? I do it to discredit you all and demean you all, so when you write negative stories about me no one will believe you.
“Undocumented” or “unauthorized” refers to students who are not U.S. citizens or permanent residents of the United States, who do not hold a visa to reside in the U.S., and who have not applied for legal residency in the U.S. These individuals are not “illegal.” Not only is the term “illegal” inaccurate, it is dehumanizing. As Elie Wiesel, Holocaust survivor and Nobel Peace Prize winner, famously stated, “No human being is illegal.” When referring to an individual who is residing in the United Stated without authorization from the federal government, we would encourage you to drop the “i-word” in favor of terms such as “undocumented” or “unauthorized” immigrant.
Wait. Does this mean I have to support that nonsense in order in order say you are bad person if you knowingly support someone who calls open nazi "mostly good people" and who raised his son to publicly proclaim democrats "aren't even human" to him and puts him in positions of power to run my country?
In 2008, Farrakhan endorsed Obama’s candidacy for President. Asked about the endorsement during a rally in Ohio, Obama said he was “very clear in my denunciation” of Farrakhan’s history of anti-Semitic remarks.
“I did not solicit his support,” Obama said.
Donnie Trump is trying to get his picture taken with North Korea's leaders. Does this also mean he's supporting their regime if he does?
Last edited by hepcat on Tue May 22, 2018 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Undocumented” or “unauthorized” refers to students who are not U.S. citizens or permanent residents of the United States, who do not hold a visa to reside in the U.S., and who have not applied for legal residency in the U.S. These individuals are not “illegal.” Not only is the term “illegal” inaccurate, it is dehumanizing. As Elie Wiesel, Holocaust survivor and Nobel Peace Prize winner, famously stated, “No human being is illegal.” When referring to an individual who is residing in the United Stated without authorization from the federal government, we would encourage you to drop the “i-word” in favor of terms such as “undocumented” or “unauthorized” immigrant.
Wait. Does this mean I have to support that nonsense in order in order say you are bad person if you knowingly support someone who calls open nazi "mostly good people" and who raised his son to publicly proclaim democrats "aren't even human" to him and puts him in positions of power to run my country?
I'm getting confused.
You can say whatever you like, it is a free country. Just don't be surprised when many people discount it and you end up driving to him instead of away from him. I would imagine nearly half of the people that support him don't even like him all that much, but calling them names and questioning their morality just cements their positions.
Rip wrote: Tue May 22, 2018 6:10 pm
Why would I hate her? I just think she is wrong.
Is that some weird sarcasm or do you honestly not know that Elie Wiesel is a he?
I had no idea who he was. Not in the habit of following every holocaust survivor. Like everyone else they have varying opinions.
Jesus Christ. Wiesel isn't some randomly selected Holocaust survivor with "varying opinions." He was literally the most well-known and most widely read representative of the Shoah generation in our lifetime.
Don't worry. I'm not melting anytime soon. In fact I kind of enjoy the unconstructive pursuit of opposition voters. Just hoped that a good chunk of the people here were better than that. My mistake. I will just keep cheering on the failure of Democrats without bothering to point out why they are failing. Probably for the best, no telling how damaging it would be to the R party if Democrats actually heeded my advice.
Last edited by Rip on Tue May 22, 2018 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rip wrote: Tue May 22, 2018 6:10 pm
Why would I hate her? I just think she is wrong.
Is that some weird sarcasm or do you honestly not know that Elie Wiesel is a he?
I had no idea who he was. Not in the habit of following every holocaust survivor. Like everyone else they have varying opinions.
Jesus Christ. Wiesel isn't some randomly selected Holocaust survivor with "varying opinions." He was literally the most well-known and most widely read representative of the Shoah generation in our lifetime.
Wiesel is a person who stands above politics, and his moral authority to discuss just about any issue is not likely to be challenged. But whatever one might think about immigration or the plight of those who come here illegally, the attempt to eliminate the term, much less compare illegal immigrants to the persecution of Jews during the Holocaust, is absurd. Illegal immigrants are called illegal not because Americans view them with malice but because they are in this country illegally.
Rip wrote: Tue May 22, 2018 6:33 pm
You can say whatever you like, it is a free country. Just don't be surprised when many people discount it and you end up driving to him instead of away from him. I would imagine nearly half of the people that support him don't even like him all that much, but calling them names and questioning their morality just cements their positions.
I was more surprised than most to learn what metal my country is made of. I am not surprised anymore, ashamed? yep. Surprised, nope, and I wholly call them out on their "being driven away". This "help, help, I'm being oppressed" response to not being able to savor your buddy kicking someone in the teeth can lick my taint, well, drive away, I guess. I didn't end the conversation. You did.
Pyperkub wrote: Tue May 22, 2018 4:54 pm
1. You don't generally know that they don't have a green card,or were born in east la. So calling them illegal without proof is a dick move,and why would you so that in the first place? That's a great conversation opener -gee, are you here illegally?
2. It cam alai be a veiled threat - don't piss me if our I'll call ICE on your illegal ass.
If you're a guest at a party, you don't start speculating on who is here legally and who may not be, it's a dick MAGA move.
It's a good thing we aren't talking about conjecture or calling legal immigrants illegal, then.
That. I don't believer I ever suggested referring to Hispanics as illegal immigrants (nor would I limit the tern to just Hispanics who had illegally immigrated.)
Rip wrote: Tue May 22, 2018 6:10 pm
Why would I hate her? I just think she is wrong.
Is that some weird sarcasm or do you honestly not know that Elie Wiesel is a he?
I had no idea who he was. Not in the habit of following every holocaust survivor. Like everyone else they have varying opinions.
Jesus Christ. Wiesel isn't some randomly selected Holocaust survivor with "varying opinions." He was literally the most well-known and most widely read representative of the Shoah generation in our lifetime.
Doesn't make him any less likely to be wrong.
How are we supposed to take seriously your opinions about Israel when you've never even heard of Elie Wiesel?
Remus West wrote: Tue May 22, 2018 9:46 am
So you are looking for a method of referring to a group of people in a negative fashion without being labeled in return for your blanket use of a negative term?
Snowflake.
He wants to refer to illegal immigrants as illegal immigrants. Honestly, things like this is why moderates complain about the political correctness.
Except when I offered that choice up he gave me reasons why he doesn't which is stupid to me. He said he wanted a way to refer to them negatively. Illegal immigrants does that.
Also, the article he linked was crap in comparing us calling illegal immigrants "illegal" when we do not refer to speeders as illegal drivers. We don't do that because they are not illegal drivers. They are speeders. Someone driving without ever having qualified for a DL is an illegal driver and I'd have no issues with calling them such.
Well, Rip is going to Rip.
At the same time, I have no problem calling an illegal immigrant an illegal immigrant and don't particularly care if it hurts their feelings.
I do. I have mexican american friends who have had friends/family who have come to america to work, and some of whom have been deported. I've also had contractor work on my house who likely hired people without green cards to do work, and I treat them like anyone else, friendly and glad for good work. I've lived in Los Angeles with Mexican neighbors, some of whom may have been here illegally, or had friends/family members who were here illegally looking for work and to be with family.
they are still members of the community and to be a good friend or neighbor, I would never be such a dick to go all MAGA on them.
It would be "all MAGA" to try and have them deported, report them, or to treat them as sub-human. Calling people "illegal immigrants" isn't MAGA. It is just a term to describe their situation. That they are getting fucked over by the current state of the federal government is horrible but doesn't change their legal status.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
Rip wrote: Tue May 22, 2018 4:10 pmDon't ever see them turning away from people like Bill Ayers, Nation of Islam, Black Panthers, Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood, and so on. Neither party is big on turning away votes or cash.
Speaking of, I didn't get this month's check from Hamas yet. Did anyone else here? I need to call them on their continual tardiness. They better get their shit together soon or I will consider toning down my liberal rhetoric!
And the Muslim Brotherhood? Please. I haven't gotten a check from them in more than a year. They're dead to me at this point.
Yes, it's patently obvious when leading Democratic candidates attend the Hamas conference in Ohio, or the Muslim Brotherhood fundraiser in LA. You can just see how much they cater to those groups.
Jesus Christ, Rip, is that the best you can do? Yes, Farrakhan is a shitstain. He's also so far to the fringe that mainstream D's won't have anything to do with him. Meanwhile, Trump is bending over backwards not to offend David Duke. A few fringe outliers on the left doesn't equalize embracing the alt-right.
Trump doesn't bend over to avoid offending David Duke. Hell he is happy to offend anyone, even his so-called best friends.
I have no idea what the crap you are talking about in Ohio/LA (Neo-Nazi conventions or something?). No Mainstream Rs go to those things either whatever hate group you are referring to. The Alt-right is nothing. They have next to no real power, the just a fringe group probably even less influential than Nation of Islam.
Rip wrote: Tue May 22, 2018 11:39 pm
Trump doesn't bend over to avoid offending David Duke. Hell he is happy to offend anyone, even his so-called best friends.
I have no idea what the crap you are talking about in Ohio/LA (Neo-Nazi conventions or something?). No Mainstream Rs go to those things either whatever hate group you are referring to. The Alt-right is nothing. They have next to no real power, the just a fringe group probably even less influential than Nation of Islam.
Really guys lay off. There is never going to be a mainstream Republican that embraces a hate group.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
Rip wrote: You will get less flack in many circles for using the R-word or the N-word.
Those circles would be Trump supporters and/or racists. Shall we draw a diagram?
Hate to defend Rip here but I hear the N-word daily from my students regardless of their color. All will tell you they are saying a word ending in -a rather than -er which is a major difference to them. Its also why I stop paying attention to people's word foilbles. Which is why I'm confused by being adverse to calling people illegally in the United States illegal immigrants. They immigrated here illegally. The term describes their choice. I don't view it as racist because I don't believe all illegal immigrants are bad people. I don't believe its even close to half of them. Or a fourth. Or a sixteenth...or a...you get the idea.
You should hear my son who loves hip-hop. It makes me cringe when I overhear him singing along. I've tried to tell him that it will result in someone confronting him over it (and I'm not talking about some racist who doesn't like him singing it) and I fear he will end up being shot someday by someone who overreacts to him using the N-word while singing along in a song about all kinds of nasty ways the songs today like to sing about women. He is just trying to impress the Becky(s) I think.
gbasden wrote: Tue May 22, 2018 10:49 pm
Jesus Christ, Rip, is that the best you can do? Yes, Farrakhan is a shitstain. He's also so far to the fringe that mainstream D's won't have anything to do with him. Meanwhile, Trump is bending over backwards not to offend David Duke. A few fringe outliers on the left doesn't equalize embracing the alt-right.
For the most part I agree with this statement, but there are some mainstream D official's that will have something to do with him. Very, very few by Republican standards, but they do exist.
Yeah but it's another example of this whole false equivalency thing. As if a Farrakhan photo-op with Obama somehow equates to all the racist rhetoric and actions of Trump.
I hate to say it, but really - Rip is actively destroying the ability to have a rational discussion in this thread. Hepcat joking about bringing him to his senses is funny, but I really think we truly need to just start ignoring him altogether.
El Guapo wrote: Wed May 23, 2018 10:24 am
I hate to say it, but really - Rip is actively destroying the ability to have a rational discussion in this thread. Hepcat joking about bringing him to his senses is funny, but I really think we truly need to just start ignoring him altogether.
I've been advocating for that for a while. (Though mostly silently.) I shake my head every time someone tries to respond intelligently to him. Or engage him. He hasn't changed since he originally stated that his entire intent is to troll us.
Black Lives Matter
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El Guapo wrote: Wed May 23, 2018 10:24 am
I hate to say it, but really - Rip is actively destroying the ability to have a rational discussion in this thread. Hepcat joking about bringing him to his senses is funny, but I really think we truly need to just start ignoring him altogether.
I've been advocating for that for a while. (Though mostly silently.) I shake my head every time someone tries to respond intelligently to him. Or engage him. He hasn't changed since he originally stated that his entire intent is to troll us.
I mean seriously. At this point probably 90% of this thread is either Rip posting his trolling nonsense or people responding to or discussing Rip's nonsense. None of what Rip posts meets the bare minimum threshold of factual grounding or logic to be worth discussing. I barely check this thread at this point because it's so worthless.
In some ways it's sort of an interesting microcosm demonstration of how Trump is able to dominate American political discourse with lies, bluster, and nonsense.
El Guapo wrote: Wed May 23, 2018 10:33 amIn some ways it's sort of an interesting microcosm demonstration of how Trump is able to dominate American political discourse with lies, bluster, and nonsense.
I almost posted something similar to that a couple days back, noting that everyone's so busy responding to BS that nothing useful is discussed. Often he doesn't even hang around to discuss or debate and just drops a fresh turd periodically to keep everyone annoyed.
A perfect representation of American politics right now.
Black Lives Matter
2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
2025-01-20: The nightmares continue.
To me he represents the right perfectly. Not really trying to do anything other than annoy the rest of the world. For a while I considered blocking him but then I figured maybe I'd try and play along for a bit. Mostly his "positions" simply act to inform me about where people find the crap they accept as true so I can use that knowledge to my own advantage.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
Remus West wrote: Wed May 23, 2018 11:02 am
To me he represents the right perfectly. Not really trying to do anything other than annoy the rest of the world. For a while I considered blocking him but then I figured maybe I'd try and play along for a bit. Mostly his "positions" simply act to inform me about where people find the crap they accept as true so I can use that knowledge to my own advantage.
Just block him. You really don't miss anything of substance. Ideally we would do the same thing to Trumpworld, but we can't, because they (unlike Rip) are in control of the United States government.
Yeah, there's nothing horrifying at all about the Chief Executive ignoring any and all actual intel (because reading is hard!), and getting all his information from morning propaganda!
(yeah, we're fucked)
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
