The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

[LordMortis]

Nonsense. I have it on high authority that any investigations into Trump-related businesses or persons is nothing but a WITCH HUNT.

I have in on high authority that he has checked in to it and multiple sources say he can pardon himself, so don't waste the money. He won't have to pardon himself because he's not guilty and he hasn't even thought about it but he can, in fact, pardon himself.

I know this is a joke, but can he actually pardon himself from state charges? I thought his authority was just for federal charges.

Yes, just federal.

You can't even investigate Trump for unlawful political coordination when #TheMemo has already shown there was NO COLLUSION and ended the investigation. This is just more deep state conspiracy from Crooked Hillary and Slippery James Comey. Worse than Watergate. End this WITCH HUNT hoax. No obstruction. No crime.

[Zaxxon]

When This 25-Year-Old Resistance Member Was Dying Of Cancer, Robert Mueller Came To His Hospital Room To Give Him A Sneak Peek At The Conclusion Of The Russia Investigation

[noxiousdog]

When This 25-Year-Old Resistance Member Was Dying Of Cancer, Robert Mueller Came To His Hospital Room To Give Him A Sneak Peek At The Conclusion Of The Russia Investigation

Is that real?

That's horrible form if it is. Both revealing data ahead of time and following/cavorting with a 3rd party group against the president.

[gilraen]

When This 25-Year-Old Resistance Member Was Dying Of Cancer, Robert Mueller Came To His Hospital Room To Give Him A Sneak Peek At The Conclusion Of The Russia Investigation

Is that real?

That's horrible form if it is. Both revealing data ahead of time and following/cavorting with a 3rd party group against the president.

You realize this website is like a step down from The Onion?

[noxiousdog]

When This 25-Year-Old Resistance Member Was Dying Of Cancer, Robert Mueller Came To His Hospital Room To Give Him A Sneak Peek At The Conclusion Of The Russia Investigation

Is that real?

That's horrible form if it is. Both revealing data ahead of time and following/cavorting with a 3rd party group against the president.

You realize this website is like a step down from The Onion?

No, I didn't, and it wasn't funny at all so I'm not sure why it was posted.

[LordMortis]

When This 25-Year-Old Resistance Member Was Dying Of Cancer, Robert Mueller Came To His Hospital Room To Give Him A Sneak Peek At The Conclusion Of The Russia Investigation

Is that real?

That's horrible form if it is. Both revealing data ahead of time and following/cavorting with a 3rd party group against the president.

Beyond bad form. It sounds like a lie to me. I sure hope it's a lie.

[stessier]

When This 25-Year-Old Resistance Member Was Dying Of Cancer, Robert Mueller Came To His Hospital Room To Give Him A Sneak Peek At The Conclusion Of The Russia Investigation

Is that real?

That's horrible form if it is. Both revealing data ahead of time and following/cavorting with a 3rd party group against the president.

From the url, I'm guessing no. Particularly since it lines up nicely with Star Wars being shown to a dying fan.

[LordMortis]

Whew

https://www.clickhole.com/what-is-clickhole-1824216059

What if I want to sue ClickHole?

Please do not do that. The First Amendment protects satire as a form of free speech and expression. ClickHole uses invented names in all of its stories, except in cases where public figures are being satirized. Any other use of real names is accidental and coincidental. ClickHole is not intended for readers under 18 years of age.

[Fireball]

Clickhole is the Onion's version of Buzzfeed.

[LawBeefaroni]

Clearly bad "satire".

But if you're still not convinced:

ClickHole (temporarily known as Cruft and PatriotHole) is a satirical website from The Onion that parodies clickbait websites such as BuzzFeed and Upworthy.

[Zaxxon]

Wow. Did not know that folks didn't realize Clickhole was The Onion.

[Fireball]

Clickhole is awesome:

Resistance Win: When One Of Her Students Wore A MAGA Hat To Class, This Incredible Teacher Stopped Having Sex With Him After School

[Rip]

Nice way to provide cover for fakenews.........

[El Guapo]

Comey Cited as Insubordinate, but Report Finds No Bias in F.B.I. Decision to Clear Clinton.

WASHINGTON — The former F.B.I. director James B. Comey was insubordinate in his handling of the investigation of Hillary Clinton during the 2016 presidential election, a critical Justice Department report has concluded, according to officials and others who saw or were briefed on it.

But the report, by the department’s inspector general, Michael E. Horowitz, does not challenge the decision not to prosecute Mrs. Clinton. Nor does it conclude that political bias at the F.B.I. influenced that decision, the officials said.

“We found no evidence that the conclusions by department prosecutors were affected by bias or other improper considerations,” the report said, according to one official who read the sentence to The New York Times. “Rather, we concluded that they were based on the prosecutor’s assessment of facts, the law, and past department practice.”

Of course, a lot of the coverage is focused on new texts between Page and Strzok:

[El Guapo]

Also in the news:

New York Attorney General Accuses Trump Charity of Sweeping Violations.

The New York State attorney general’s office filed a scathingly worded lawsuit on Thursday taking aim at the Donald J. Trump Foundation, accusing the charity and the Trump family of sweeping violations of campaign finance laws, self-dealing and illegal coordination with the presidential campaign.

The lawsuit, which seeks to dissolve the foundation and bar President Trump and three of his children from serving on nonprofit organizations, was an extraordinary rebuke of a sitting president. The attorney general also sent referral letters to the Internal Revenue Service and the Federal Election Commission for possible further action, adding to Mr. Trump’s extensive legal challenges.

The lawsuit, filed in State Supreme Court in Manhattan, culminated a nearly two-year investigation of Mr. Trump’s charity, which became a subject of scrutiny during and after the 2016 presidential campaign. While such foundations are supposed to be devoted to charitable activities, the petition asserts that Mr. Trump’s was often used to settle legal claims against his various businesses, even spending $10,000 on a portrait of Mr. Trump that was hung at one of his golf clubs.

The foundation was also used to curry political favor, the lawsuit asserts. During the 2016 race, the foundation became a virtual arm of Mr. Trump’s campaign, email traffic showed, with his campaign manager Corey Lewandowski directing its expenditures, even though such foundations are explicitly prohibited from political activities.

[Sepiche]

As if underscoring the problem (h/t Popehat):

NOTABLE: The TRUMP FOUNDATION statement pushing back on the @NewYorkStateAG lawsuit alleging the Trump Organization improperly controlled the Trump Foundation came from a Trump Org email address.

[Daveman]

So an FBI official involved in the Russia/Trump campaign investigation texted another official that they're going to stop Trump. Someone who presumably knew what the investigation had turned up at that point. The only thing shocking is that his statement was wrong and Trump was elected.

I'm sure this will be spun into more Deep State conspiracy.

[El Guapo]

So an FBI official involved in the Russia/Trump campaign investigation texted another official that they're going to stop Trump. Someone who presumably knew what the investigation had turned up at that point. The only thing shocking is that his statement was wrong and Trump was elected.

I'm sure this will be spun into more Deep State conspiracy.

It's more than enough fuel for Trump's state media to run with. It's overshadowing most of the rest of the report even in some mainstream sources.

[El Guapo]

Seems like this is (or should be) a big deal.

[Captain Caveman]

Should be, but I'm afraid the "we'll stop" text will dominate everything, regardless that the conclusions of the IG report go in the opposite direction. Only one party has a propaganda machine and the mainstream media is cowed by fear of seeming partisan, so they latch on to shit like this to showcase their non-partiality. Seems like an important test right now whether the media gives "we'll stop" more coverage than things like this:


https://twitter.com/OrinKerr/status/1007300059291979777

[El Guapo]

Presumably he did so for the irony.

[GreenGoo]

Only federal.

He can't pardon himself from federal charges either. The idea is asinine. That would essentially put the POTUS above the law.

[Paingod]

Only federal.

He can't pardon himself from federal charges either. The idea is asinine. That would essentially put the POTUS above the law.

Which is why his lawyers are pushing the concept that he can and everyone else is shaking their heads "No"

[El Guapo]

Only federal.

He can't pardon himself from federal charges either. The idea is asinine. That would essentially put the POTUS above the law.

I mean, that's the point.

But seriously, there is a credible argument that he can. The Constitution gives the President the power to pardon for federal offenses. It does not say anything limiting who he can pardon. You essentially have to read into "pardon" that it necessarily has to be for someone else, but that's not clear cut.

Great job, Founding Fathers.

[GreenGoo]

I guess you'd have to tell me whether the constitution conveys any expectations on the pardon power and how it's used. Would a valid and legal use of it be to have a 3rd party set up a criminal organization to the president's benefit and then simply pardon everyone in it? Would the constitution be ok with that usage? If so, then sure, why not let him pardon himself, SCOTUS? I mean, what difference would it make at that point anyway?

And for the record I was refuting what appeared to be 2 serious back to back claims that the president can in fact pardon himself for federal crimes. We're not there yet and I don't ever expect to be there.

[$iljanus]

Only federal.

He can't pardon himself from federal charges either. The idea is asinine. That would essentially put the POTUS above the law.

I mean, that's the point.

But seriously, there is a credible argument that he can. The Constitution gives the President the power to pardon for federal offenses. It does not say anything limiting who he can pardon. You essentially have to read into "pardon" that it necessarily has to be for someone else, but that's not clear cut.

Great job, Founding Fathers.

I guess the Founding Fathers thought that the Congress would put a check on the President and impeach him for said crimes for the good of the country instead of blindly supporting the person in office because he belongs to the same political party.

(ha ha ha ha ha... goes off to drink in the corner)

[Captain Caveman]

Only federal.

He can't pardon himself from federal charges either. The idea is asinine. That would essentially put the POTUS above the law.

I mean, that's the point.

But seriously, there is a credible argument that he can. The Constitution gives the President the power to pardon for federal offenses. It does not say anything limiting who he can pardon. You essentially have to read into "pardon" that it necessarily has to be for someone else, but that's not clear cut.

Great job, Founding Fathers.

Kind of seems like pardoning oneself is against the entire spirit of the constitution that was written as a series of checks and balances to explicitly prevent a monarchy.

[Daehawk]

Do you think he even cares...or understands?

[El Guapo]

I guess you'd have to tell me whether the constitution conveys any expectations on the pardon power and how it's used. Would a valid and legal use of it be to have a 3rd party set up a criminal organization to the president's benefit and then simply pardon everyone in it? Would the constitution be ok with that usage? If so, then sure, why not let him pardon himself, SCOTUS? I mean, what difference would it make at that point anyway?

And for the record I was refuting what appeared to be 2 serious back to back claims that the president can in fact pardon himself for federal crimes. We're not there yet and I don't ever expect to be there.

[The President] "shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment".

That's pretty much the entire pardon clause / power. So yeah, he probably could pardon a third party who engaged in crimes for the President's benefit. There isn't any obvious limit on who can be pardoned and for what. The strongest argument against the presidential self-pardon is that the act of pardoning inherently assumes that it's something you do for something else. I guess you could try to extend that principle to someone acting as the President's agent.

For what it's worth the Justice Department concluded in a memo (around the time of Watergate) that the President can't pardon himself. That's not binding precedent for the current President nor for the courts, but it is something.

[Holman]

Presumably he did so for the irony.

link

[Holman]

link

[gilraen]

Only federal.

He can't pardon himself from federal charges either. The idea is asinine. That would essentially put the POTUS above the law.

Pardoning himself, even if not illegal, is an impeachable offense. Of course, it implies that you have a Congress that's not firmly embedded in the President's ass.

[Remus West]

link

I don't disagree with a single thing Comey said there other than his conclusion not to act.

[Unagi]

When This 25-Year-Old Resistance Member Was Dying Of Cancer, Robert Mueller Came To His Hospital Room To Give Him A Sneak Peek At The Conclusion Of The Russia Investigation

Is that real?

That's horrible form if it is. Both revealing data ahead of time and following/cavorting with a 3rd party group against the president.

You realize this website is like a step down from The Onion?

No, I didn't, and it wasn't funny at all so I'm not sure why it was posted.

It was a silly thing to post in this thread. It was a stupid joke-website, and this isn't the joke-thread.

[Unagi]

Wow. Did not know that folks didn't realize Clickhole was The Onion.

I'd be pretty selective about the Onion article's I'd share in this thread as well.

[Unagi]

Nice way to provide cover for fakenews.........

lol, WHAT?!

[Unagi]

Only federal.

He can't pardon himself from federal charges either. The idea is asinine. That would essentially put the POTUS above the law.

OH, believe me - my family is close friends with the guy who wrote the book on that (ok, well my wife went to HS with a guy who wrote a book on stuff like this).

It's absurd.

The term "Pardon" is from the same root as the term "Donation"

you cannot 'Donate' to your self, any more than you can Pardon yourself.

That being said --- He can't even pardon a tool of his at the state level -- that's what we are pointing out. (what was asked)

[malchior]

Enjoy another light helping of authoritarianism.

[Unagi]

Only federal.

He can't pardon himself from federal charges either. The idea is asinine. That would essentially put the POTUS above the law.

I mean, that's the point.

But seriously, there is a credible argument that he can. The Constitution gives the President the power to pardon for federal offenses. It does not say anything limiting who he can pardon. You essentially have to read into "pardon" that it necessarily has to be for someone else, but that's not clear cut.

Great job, Founding Fathers.

That's not entirely fair/accurate.

While it's true that they made the pardon power pretty powerful, one can gather from their discussions that they never intended the President to be above consideration of the law. They always concluded that a traitor President would be subjec to BOTH impeachment and persecution.



An example would be in how they DID explicitly state how the Vice President would not play a role in an impeachment against the President, where normally the VP would indeed play a leading roll in the Senate's 'judiciary role' --- And Yet --- they never also bothered to point out explicatley that the VP would also NOT play a role in any impeachment proceedings against HIMSELF... it's implied that one cannot be a judge in one's one justice.

So, yeah - they blew it in not being delibrate in their wording there --- but ther is a lot pointing to them not being delibrate because they thought that point was obvious.

[Zaxxon]

When This 25-Year-Old Resistance Member Was Dying Of Cancer, Robert Mueller Came To His Hospital Room To Give Him A Sneak Peek At The Conclusion Of The Russia Investigation

Is that real?

That's horrible form if it is. Both revealing data ahead of time and following/cavorting with a 3rd party group against the president.

You realize this website is like a step down from The Onion?

No, I didn't, and it wasn't funny at all so I'm not sure why it was posted.

It was a silly thing to post in this thread. It was a stupid joke-website, and this isn't the joke-thread.

Agreed. Wrong thread for that. Sorry, folks.