The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Daveman · Post by **Daveman** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:53 am

That tweet has supposedly been confirmed, he was at the Russian meeting but left early and was back in DC.

Hate that this might be used as an example of "fake news".

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:47 pm

Business Insider

Paul Manafort is being held in solitary confinement in a Virginia jail while he awaits trial, according to a document his lawyer filed Thursday.

Manafort's lawyer Kevin Downing said Manafort is being held for 23 hours a day because "the facility cannot otherwise guarantee his safety" and complained he cannot adequately prepare for his upcoming trial, which is slated for July 25.

Assistant special counsel Scott Meisler hit back with a reply also filed Thursday. In it, Meisler wrote the appeal notion should be denied, as Manafort's actions were "committed through covert corrupt persuasion" and that the terms of his sentence "are common to defendants incarcerated pending trial."

The filing also said Manafort has not taken any action to improve his confinement conditions.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:54 pm

Daveman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:53 am That tweet has supposedly been confirmed, he was at the Russian meeting but left early and was back in DC.

Hate that this might be used as an example of "fake news".

Well, that's good to know.

He went to Moscow to massage Putin's KGB balls, but at least he got home in time for fireworks.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:26 pm

The optics of going to Russia to meet with your financial benefactors despite Russia having played a not insignificant part in manipulating the election, on or near July 4th has got to be awful for anyone who still cares about that sort of thing.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:06 pm

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:26 pm for anyone who still cares about that sort of thing.

And there you have it. I suppose those of us that care might care too much while those that have the power over caring... don't.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:23 pm

What really stands out is just how easy it would be to avoid these optics just a little, by simply doing it on some other day.

It's a lot like the "I really don't care, Do U?" jacket. So easy to not do, so obvious... it seems it must be on purpose.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:28 pm

I'd be willing to bet that the Russians made sure these meetings would happen July 4. They know optics.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:25 am

Long article on what we know about the Trump-Russia connection, and how bad the truth might be.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:09 am

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:25 am Long article on what we know about the Trump-Russia connection, and how bad the truth might be.

That's chilling. All I can say is that, if it's true, I hope Mueller's methodically documenting every bit of it.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:18 am

Kraken wrote: ↑Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:09 am
El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:25 am Long article on what we know about the Trump-Russia connection, and how bad the truth might be.
That's chilling. All I can say is that, if it's true, I hope Mueller's methodically documenting every bit of it.

I don't worry about Mueller's ability to document all this given enough time, especially given how poor Trump's people seem to be about hiding their handiwork. I do worry quite a bit about, if it's as bad as it might be, how that would impact Trump's response to all of this as it starts to come out. Also the arguments about how Putin seems likely to try to manipulate the 2018 and 2020 elections are unsettling.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:27 am

It's certainly interesting, but I think Trump is too much of a narcissistic fool to be controlled by anybody. Influenced and manipulated like a puppet, sure, but pwned, not owned.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:05 am

How is being ‘manipulated like a puppet’ not the very same thing as ‘controlled by someone’?

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:13 am

A must read:

My greatest fear at this point is that Mueller and/or Rosenstein has an "accident".

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:30 am

Unagi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:05 am How is being ‘manipulated like a puppet’ not the very same thing as ‘controlled by someone’?

I think Pyperkub's point is that Trump is not a willing secret agent of Putin; he's just a soft-minded dupe who responds to Putin's flattery, funding, and example of authoritarian power.

The wrinkle is that even Trump understands that crossing Putin is no longer an option. He's in too deep, and exposure (which Putin could accomplish with a single document-dump) would destroy him.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:34 am

Sadly, I’m not sure even a pee tape would hurt Trump as much as the article suggests. His supporters are dug in deep, out of necessity.

He’s so bad, they have to go full hard-on for Trump, dismissing all the criticism, or admit to having made a HUGE mistake.

I’ve not seen anybody in the media or anecdotally in my circles, state their regret over a Trump vote. Doubling down is apparently the preferred route.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:41 am

Yeah, I don't think the Pee tape is the worst thing Putin is holding.

Clear proof of money-laundering and other financial crimes would do real damage not just to Trump but to his whole family, and it wouldn't depend on the Deplorables' opinions.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:10 am

If Trump thinks he could shoot someone on broad daylight on 5th Avenue,I don't think he cares about a pee tape.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:19 am

tgb wrote: ↑Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:13 am A must read:
My greatest fear at this point is that Mueller and/or Rosenstein has an "accident".

Indeed. The author was on NPR a few weeks ago, and the interview was quite disturbing. I posted it, but it was lost in whatever other nonsense happened that particular day.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:19 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:47 pm Business Insider

Paul Manafort is being held in solitary confinement in a Virginia jail while he awaits trial, according to a document his lawyer filed Thursday.

Manafort's lawyer Kevin Downing said Manafort is being held for 23 hours a day because "the facility cannot otherwise guarantee his safety" and complained he cannot adequately prepare for his upcoming trial, which is slated for July 25.

Assistant special counsel Scott Meisler hit back with a reply also filed Thursday. In it, Meisler wrote the appeal notion should be denied, as Manafort's actions were "committed through covert corrupt persuasion" and that the terms of his sentence "are common to defendants incarcerated pending trial."

The filing also said Manafort has not taken any action to improve his confinement conditions.

WaPo

A federal judge in Alexandria has ordered Paul Manafort to be moved to the city jail, although Manafort has asked to stay in a Northern Neck facility where prosecutors say he is receiving special treatment.

Judge T.S. Ellis wrote in a filing published Wednesday that Manafort’s “access to counsel and his ability to prepare for trial trumps his personal comfort.”

Manafort, the former Trump campaign manager, had asked for his July 25 federal trial in Alexandria on bank and tax fraud charges to be delayed in large part because it was difficult to prepare while incarcerated 100 miles away. But on Tuesday, Manafort resisted being moved to Alexandria, arguing that while the city jail would be more convenient, he did not want to adjust to new circumstances so close to trial.

“It is surprising and confusing when counsel identifies a problem and then opposes the most logical solution to that problem,” Ellis wrote. “The dissonance between defendant’s motion to continue and motion opposing transfer to the Alexandria Detention Center cannot easily be explained or resolved.”

Prosecutors said in a court filing Wednesday that Manafort has told people he is being treated like a “VIP” in the Northern Neck jail, where he has his own phone and computer, writes emails and does not have to wear a uniform.
...
In a recent phone call they say he explained in vague terms why he wanted to go to trial first in D.C. federal court, where he faces related charges in a trial set for September.

“Think about how it’ll play elsewhere,” Manafort said, according to the court filing. “There is a strategy to it, even in failure, but there’s a hope in it.”

In recent phone calls, they say Manafort also has said he has “all my files like I would at home,” has “gone through all the discovery now,” and is being treated like a “VIP.”

Manafort speaks to his attorneys every day and often multiple times a day, they said. While the calls are limited to 15 minutes in length, there is no limit on how many calls he can make.

Fitzy · Post by **Fitzy** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:43 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:19 pm
WaPo

A federal judge in Alexandria has ordered Paul Manafort to be moved to the city jail, although Manafort has asked to stay in a Northern Neck facility where prosecutors say he is receiving special treatment.

Judge T.S. Ellis wrote in a filing published Wednesday that Manafort’s “access to counsel and his ability to prepare for trial trumps his personal comfort.”

Manafort, the former Trump campaign manager, had asked for his July 25 federal trial in Alexandria on bank and tax fraud charges to be delayed in large part because it was difficult to prepare while incarcerated 100 miles away. But on Tuesday, Manafort resisted being moved to Alexandria, arguing that while the city jail would be more convenient, he did not want to adjust to new circumstances so close to trial.

“It is surprising and confusing when counsel identifies a problem and then opposes the most logical solution to that problem,” Ellis wrote. “The dissonance between defendant’s motion to continue and motion opposing transfer to the Alexandria Detention Center cannot easily be explained or resolved.”

That's funny. Who knew judges had a sense of humor?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:15 am

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:27 am

I'm watching the Strok hearing now. Hot take - the Republicans are as hyperbolic and unhinged as the boss. Goodlatte was insane. You wouldn't think Gowdy was actually retiring based on his behavior. Or that he wasn't drunk or on a depressant. It was unreal. I can't wait for the considered takes later in the day.

Edit: Honestly this hearing is off the wall grandstanding. The short of it is it is essentially Strok saying the FBI counsel has instructed him not to answer questions and then Republicans beating on him because they have him testifying under sub poena. A DOJ lawyer was sitting feet away and you could clearly see him saying you can't answer over and over. Unreal.

Here is the opening if you want to punch your monitor. Highlight hot mike moment - "Are you just going to make up rules as you go along [sic]". Why yes Goodlatte will indeed. Because he literally set out to cause this confrontation and was reading the whole thing from a prepared set of notes. He starts falling apart as the D's kept throwing Parliamentary rules at him and Goodlatte just started wildly flailing. The crescendo being when he forbade the witness from talking to the FBI attorney and Dems started openly mocking Goodlatte. Clown shoes.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:03 pm

Some righteous indignation here.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:17 pm

Did I just really listen to a committee chair tell an FBI employee that the Supreme Court has indicated he has an obligation as a private citizen to answer the question posed to him in his official duties as an FBI agent? What in the actual fuck is happening in that hearing? Is there some type of strategy where they think they can just force answers to their questions about an ongoing investigation? This is their plan?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:12 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:17 pm Did I just really listen to a committee chair tell an FBI employee that the Supreme Court has indicated he has an obligation as a private citizen to answer the question posed to him in his official duties as an FBI agent? What in the actual fuck is happening in that hearing? Is there some type of strategy where they think they can just force answers to their questions about an ongoing investigation? This is their plan?

The point is just to generate some clips that can be used on Fox News and talk radio.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:17 pm

The old quote that says, "I reject your reality and substitute my own!" is meant to be a joke, not a legal strategy.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:37 pm

Gah, it stopped right when ShittyLatte was about to pop a blood vessel. I wanted to see that! Where’s the rest? Did it result in a British Parliament style brawl?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:06 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:37 pm Gah, it stopped right when ShittyLatte was about to pop a blood vessel. I wanted to see that! Where’s the rest? Did it result in a British Parliament style brawl?

I only wish - the open mocking was pretty good. I usually eye roll at the response to these antics but sheer mockery was appropriate since this was hip deep horse shit. They obviously had a game plan ready and Goodlatte not being ready for that was wonderful! He definitely isn't the sharpest on his feet.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:10 pm

It's looking like they've made the same mistake they made with Hillary Clinton: putting the testimony on live TV so that everyone can see how ridiculously baseless their "investigation" is.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:12 pm

Rip wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:24 pm Is it time for leftist McCarthyism already.

Commies becomes racists and homophobes. Seems like desperation is in the wind.

This should be the best midterm election we have seen in a while. If the Republicans maintain control of the Senate I suspect the left will go into full meltdown mode.

I was actually a little disappointed with the pick. I would really like to see a well qualified conservative woman on the court.

LOL, silly goose. We got some new McCarthyism happening right now in the Strzok hearings. Course it's still from the right, but you got half of what you wanted. Yay?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:13 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:10 pm It's looking like they've made the same mistake they made with Hillary Clinton: putting the testimony on live TV so that everyone can see how ridiculously baseless their "investigation" is.

eh. The number of people watching live has to be close to zero, right? And they can just slice out a few clips in isolation to use in conservative media. I don't know that this is going to move the needle much, but it's not obviously a failure from the GOP's perspective.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:20 pm

Still, making it visible is very different from closed hearings where the GOP committee leaders can selectively release whatever they think looks most Deep State.

Strzok's monologue shown above is going to be the defining clip. In closed hearings, we would never have seen it at all.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:23 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:20 pm Still, making it visible is very different from closed hearings where the GOP committee leaders can selectively release whatever they think looks most Deep State.

Strzok's monologue shown above is going to be the defining clip. In closed hearings, we would never have seen it at all.

Yeah, but with closed hearings you don't get any video to show on Hannity. You need to see the villain to do the two-minute hate.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:15 pm

Classy. Hilarious to hear the Congresswoman asking him if he took his medication!

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:25 pm

Good to know that marital fidelity is a GOP litmus test. Let's run with that.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:16 am

The Republican assertion that Strok's "bias" taints the investigation and renders him incapable of disregarding personal bias is self refuting. Is Strok's bias disqualifies him, then their pro-Trump bias disqualifies them from investigating him and render an impartial judgement. I wish someone had brought this up at the hearing today.

Furthermore, criminal investigators investigate people all of the time for which they have personal bias. I doubt that the FBI likes organized crime bosses, or the local police like a lot of the multiple convicted offenders they pick up oftentimes. But we generally don't accuse them of bias in those investigations. because we believe they are professionals and try go where the evidence takes them.

The hearings were a joke and a circus.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:01 am

Grifman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:16 am The Republican assertion that Strok's "bias" taints the investigation and renders him incapable of disregarding personal bias is self refuting. Is Strok's bias disqualifies him, then their pro-Trump bias disqualifies them from investigating him and render an impartial judgement. I wish someone had brought this up at the hearing today.

Furthermore, criminal investigators investigate people all of the time for which they have personal bias. I doubt that the FBI likes organized crime bosses, or the local police like a lot of the multiple convicted offenders they pick up oftentimes. But we generally don't accuse them of bias in those investigations. because we believe they are professionals and try go where the evidence takes them.

The hearings were a joke and a circus.

It's even dumber than that. Republicans are charging that Strzok was investigating Trump before the election in order to throw the election to Clinton. But if that's the case...WHY THE HELL DIDN'T HE THROW THE ELECTION TO CLINTON? They're saying that he spent months digging up whatever dirt in order to use it against Trump...but never actually did. I guess he just forgot!

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:05 am

That's what annoys me the most about the Republican Party. The bullshit is transparently stupid.

But it's all intended to be filtered through the FOX/InfoWars propaganda machine.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:55 am

Zarathud wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:05 am That's what annoys me the most about the Republican Party. The bullshit is transparently stupid.

But it's all intended to be filtered through the FOX/InfoWars propaganda machine.

They've discovered just how low the bar is, and how much their base enjoys sensational "Jerry Springer" style TV.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:09 am

Paingod wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:55 am
Zarathud wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:05 am That's what annoys me the most about the Republican Party. The bullshit is transparently stupid.

But it's all intended to be filtered through the FOX/InfoWars propaganda machine.
They've discovered just how low the bar is, and how much their base enjoys sensational "Jerry Springer" style TV.

Oh, we're beyond Jerry Springer.