The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:18 am

One of the more infuriating parts of that dog and pony show for me was where they threatened to charge him with contempt for refusing to answer questions that FBI lawyers prevented him from answering. Because not answering questions from Congress is obviously very bad. Unless you have an R after your name, in which case it's fine.

He should've just rolled out "I don't recall." That seems to be just fine with Republicans.

What I did like was the Dems being openly mocking of the questioning and hearing in general. More of that when it's warranted, please.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:45 am

Senate intel committee investigating Jill Stein campaign for possible collusion with the Russians
The Senate Intelligence Committee is looking at the presidential campaign of the Green Party’s Jill Stein for potential “collusion with the Russians,” a sign that the panel’s probe is far from over, even as allegations swirl that the House Intelligence Committee’s investigation is racing to a close.
...
Stein was present at a 2015 dinner in Moscow that was also attended by Trump’s former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, whose contacts with Russian officials have been a chief focus of congressional investigators and special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s probe. Flynn and Stein were photographed at the same table as Russian President Vladimir Putin, who sat next to Flynn and across the table from Stein.

Jill Stein’s Recount Cash Pays for Her Russia Legal Defense

Former Green Party nominee Jill Stein promised her donors they would have a say where the leftover money they gave to fund the 2016 recount was spent. They didn’t.

The Partnership for Civil Justice Fund is a nonprofit law firm whose mission is to “defend and advance fundamental civil, constitutional and human rights,” per a 2016 IRS filing. On its website, the group notes that it is representing Stein in her dealings before the the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:51 am

Jill Stein has ethical issues?!? *THANK THE LORD I WAS NEAR THE FAINTING COUCH*

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:36 am

Where's the Marshal of the Supreme Court at the moment?

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:04 am

Can we just go ahead and level set the worst case scenario for this announcement? Then, perhaps, we can be pleasantly surprised.

- Mueller is out.
- Gowdy is in.
- Clinton is locked up.
- Trump is free to do more MAGA'ing.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:13 am

It's probably something like, I've decided on Taco Bell for lunch.

milo · Post by **milo** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:34 am

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:01 am It's even dumber than that. Republicans are charging that Strzok was investigating Trump before the election in order to throw the election to Clinton. But if that's the case...WHY THE HELL DIDN'T HE THROW THE ELECTION TO CLINTON? They're saying that he spent months digging up whatever dirt in order to use it against Trump...but never actually did. I guess he just forgot!

I presume the reasoning goes like this:

1. Trump has not done anything wrong.
2. The Democrats and FB-Lie tried to find dirt on him, but couldn't find anything, because Trump is totally innocent of all wrong-doing (see point 1).
3. Now they're pissed, so they hired the special council (sic) to just make up some phony (almost wrote "trumped-up", heh) garbage about The President to prevent Him from pursuing His Agenda of MAKING AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!
4. Socialism!

Do you hate America, "El Guapo"? What kind of name is that anyway? Why don't you go back to Mexico?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:49 am

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:53 am

DNC hackers?

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:54 am

Oh and this is going to happen almost exactly at the same moment the queen is scheduled to meet Trump. She literally just got to the meeting location.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:03 pm

Enough wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:54 am Oh and this is going to happen almost exactly at the same moment the queen is scheduled to meet Trump. She literally just got to the meeting location.

Maybe he'll ask for asylum.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:07 pm

Indictments against a dozen Russian hackers.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:10 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:07 pm Indictments against a dozen Russian hackers.

What do I win‽

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:10 pm

Intelligence officers is a bigger deal than just hackers. Literally Russian government officials.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:14 pm

On the bright side, old spy movies from the cold war will finally make sense to my kids.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:16 pm

While upstaging meeting the queen is fun, the real fun is announcing this before Trump meets Putin.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:19 pm

I'm listening to it. Bet your bottom dollar that the Fox headline is "no collusion" as there are no Americans named in the indictment.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:22 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:19 pm I'm listening to it. Bet your bottom dollar that the Fox headline is "no collusion" as there are no Americans named in the indictment.

He did say: "The conspirators communicated with several Americans." But does not say that the Americans knew with whom they were communicating.

I'm guessing those revelations will come.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:24 pm

Enough wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:16 pm While upstaging meeting the queen is fun, the real fun is announcing this before Trump meets Putin.

This doesn't change anything Trump's going to say during or after that meeting. Trump will announce that he asked Putin about it again, and Putin will deny that he had anything to do with it. Trump will once again say "Well, he denies it, and I believe him, so what else can I do?"

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:26 pm

Captain Caveman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:22 pm
stessier wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:19 pm I'm listening to it. Bet your bottom dollar that the Fox headline is "no collusion" as there are no Americans named in the indictment.
He did say: "The conspirators communicated with several Americans." But does not say that the Americans knew with whom they were communicating.

I'm guessing those revelations will come.

Exactly - without seeing the line about communications with several Americans I figured that Mueller was setting this up methodically. He is painting a picture of crimes committed and then drawing lines to conspirators. I actually have a lot of faith that people in and outside Trump's circle are going to be implicated. I don't have faith that it will matter.

Also timing it so that the indictment came down just before the Putin summit is a clear shot across the bow that something is very, very wrong and they are on the trail.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:26 pm

Sure sounds like Roger Stone.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:29 pm

Captain Caveman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:22 pm
stessier wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:19 pm I'm listening to it. Bet your bottom dollar that the Fox headline is "no collusion" as there are no Americans named in the indictment.
He did say: "The conspirators communicated with several Americans." But does not say that the Americans knew with whom they were communicating.

I'm guessing those revelations will come.

Yeah, he makes pains to say there is no allegation the hacking changed the vote or results of the election and that no Americans were knowingly involved. He also briefed POTUS on this earlier in the week and that POTUS is fully involved in developments of the Mueller probe. But yet,

https://twitter.com/peterjhasson/status ... 5400706052

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:30 pm

Definitely sounds like Roger Stone. Especially considering his comments contemporary to that. And I'm hoping that Candidate was none other than Devin Nunes. That'd be amaze-balls.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:32 pm

Enough wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:29 pm [/url]

Whooooaaaaa mama. Who is this GOP candidate? Sounds a bit collusion-y.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:34 pm

I respect that they used the word candidate but really, really want to know who it is. Sitting members are candidates at an election. It is a good way to obfuscate the facts in an open document.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:44 pm

Captain Caveman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:22 pm
stessier wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:19 pm I'm listening to it. Bet your bottom dollar that the Fox headline is "no collusion" as there are no Americans named in the indictment.
He did say: "The conspirators communicated with several Americans." But does not say that the Americans knew with whom they were communicating.

I'm guessing those revelations will come.

Actually, he specifically said that the American contacts were unaware they were dealing with foreign agents.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:46 pm

I'd parse that as they can't prove they knew they were foreign agents but still they were communicating with criminals -- likely outside the country to get stolen materials to use as dirt on their opponents. I guess that makes it slightly better.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:51 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:44 pm
Captain Caveman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:22 pm
stessier wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:19 pm I'm listening to it. Bet your bottom dollar that the Fox headline is "no collusion" as there are no Americans named in the indictment.
He did say: "The conspirators communicated with several Americans." But does not say that the Americans knew with whom they were communicating.

I'm guessing those revelations will come.
Actually, he specifically said that the American contacts were unaware they were dealing with foreign agents.

At the very least, they had to know they were dealing with illegally obtained materials. The unnamed GOP congressional candidate was requesting stolen documents! Whether the person knew they were communicating with Russians or not, they're still in some deep shit.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:55 pm

Russia literally targeted Clinton's personal emails for the first time right after Trump's infamous press conference asking them to do so.

No collusion?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:14 pm

Collusion is pretty complicated though. As a thought experiment, let's say I'm a Russian looking to sow discord. A fucking moron of a Presidential candidate asks for foreign help committing crimes. Everyone will take it that he is kidding but now as an intelligence agent I have an in-road to do so and cause confusion. This is why non-fucking morons don't say things like this out loud. That statement can be seen as an endorsement or an invitation. Anything at all really. This is why typically people in power are careful with their words. The man is unusually fucking moronic to the benefit of foreign intelligence. He has no self-control, is vain, and proudly ignorant on top. Even if Trump wasn't directly or indirectly involved, the Russians have been shown the red carpet by him. #FuckingMoron

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:15 pm

Rosenstein went out of his way to point out that the president was informed of these indictments a few days ago.

Nevertheless, POTUS declared the investigation a "witch hunt" just this morning.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:17 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:14 pm Collusion is pretty complicated though. As a thought experiment, let's say I'm a Russian looking to sow discord. A fucking moron of a Presidential candidate asks for foreign help committing crimes. Everyone will take it that he is kidding but now as an intelligence agent I have an in-road to do so and cause confusion. This is why non-fucking morons don't say things like this out loud. That statement can be seen as an endorsement or an invitation. Anything at all really. This is why typically people in power are careful with their words. The man is unusually fucking moronic to the benefit of foreign intelligence. He has no self-control, is vain, and proudly ignorant on top. Even if Trump wasn't directly or indirectly involved, the Russians have been shown the red carpet by him. #FuckingMoron

It's almost enough to make you stop taking multiple secret meetings with Russians after the FBI has warned you about their efforts.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:17 pm

Chaz wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:24 pm
Enough wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:16 pm While upstaging meeting the queen is fun, the real fun is announcing this before Trump meets Putin.
This doesn't change anything Trump's going to say during or after that meeting. Trump will announce that he asked Putin about it again, and Putin will deny that he had anything to do with it. Trump will once again say "Well, he denies it, and I believe him, so what else can I do?"

I think he will point to the findings and say

Two years. They still can't find anything. NO COLLUSION. End this WITCH HUNT. <something something> Crooked Hillary conspired with Russians. <something something> Lying James Comey.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:17 pm

In addition to releasing documents directly to the public, the defendants transferred stolen documents to another organization that is not identified by name in the indictment, and they used that organization as a pass through to release the documents.

Wikileaks? Or something else?

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:18 pm

Wikileaks/Assange revealed to be directly working with the Russians, as suspected by many.

https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/ ... 9753325568

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:19 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:17 pm
In addition to releasing documents directly to the public, the defendants transferred stolen documents to another organization that is not identified by name in the indictment, and they used that organization as a pass through to release the documents.
Wikileaks? Or something else?

The reporters who've followed the story for years and have parsed the text of the indictment seem unanimous in seeing this as WikiLeaks.

Fireball · Post by **Fireball** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:20 pm

Roger Stone is in serious trouble.

Whichever GOP candidate asked for information from a hack to help his campaign committed a very serious crime.

WikiLeaks is just as scummy and awful an organization as people thought.

Some journalist (probably at Fox News?) peddled Russia-stolen information to besmirch the BLM movement.

This is a big deal.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:20 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:34 pm I respect that they used the word candidate but really, really want to know who it is. Sitting members are candidates at an election. It is a good way to obfuscate the facts in an open document.

I expect that we'll have a good idea who this is within a week or two.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:22 pm

Captain Caveman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:55 pm

Russia literally targeted Clinton's personal emails for the first time right after Trump's infamous press conference asking them to do so.

No collusion?

Some pushback on this claim:

https://twitter.com/awprokop/status/1017814619669323776

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:23 pm

Enough wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:16 pm While upstaging meeting the queen is fun, the real fun is announcing this before Trump meets Putin.

FWIW Schumer has already called on Trump to cancel his meeting with Putin. I very much doubt that Trump will, of course, but it's sensible and calling for it seems like smart politics at the least.