Tabletop Randomness

[Blackhawk]

I'm heading out to Fear the Con 2018 in the morning. Again, a friend is going and is hauling me along, so I won't have any expenses except for food (and I've got that covered with a bag of trail mix and a box of Cliff bars.) It's a (mostly) RPG con with some tabletop on the outskirts of St. Louis, and this will be my third consecutive one. Six four hour RPG sessions in two days. I'm looking forward to it. I've got spots in a few games I've been wanting to check out - the new Torg, Mouseguard, and Genesys (a generic setting RPG from Fantasy Flight that uses the rules from their Star Wars RPG.)

Oh, and it is actually free to attend, in case any locals are interested.

[AWS260]

Seurat's A Sunday Afternoon at LARP Grand Jatte

[IceBear]

I'm heading out to Fear the Con 2018 in the morning. Again, a friend is going and is hauling me along, so I won't have any expenses except for food (and I've got that covered with a bag of trail mix and a box of Cliff bars.) It's a (mostly) RPG con with some tabletop on the outskirts of St. Louis, and this will be my third consecutive one. Six four hour RPG sessions in two days. I'm looking forward to it. I've got spots in a few games I've been wanting to check out - the new Torg, Mouseguard, and Genesys (a generic setting RPG from Fantasy Flight that uses the rules from their Star Wars RPG.)

Oh, and it is actually free to attend, in case any locals are interested.

How were the games? I have them all but haven't even really read them, let alone play them

[Blackhawk]

I'm heading out to Fear the Con 2018 in the morning. Again, a friend is going and is hauling me along, so I won't have any expenses except for food (and I've got that covered with a bag of trail mix and a box of Cliff bars.) It's a (mostly) RPG con with some tabletop on the outskirts of St. Louis, and this will be my third consecutive one. Six four hour RPG sessions in two days. I'm looking forward to it. I've got spots in a few games I've been wanting to check out - the new Torg, Mouseguard, and Genesys (a generic setting RPG from Fantasy Flight that uses the rules from their Star Wars RPG.)

Oh, and it is actually free to attend, in case any locals are interested.

How were the games? I have them all but haven't even really read them, let alone play them

I was trying some of them out to see if they were a good fit for my group and my style. I'd played the FFG Star Wars games, but not in many years, and with the release of Genesys (which uses the same rules and dice, but is setting neutral), I decided to give it a look. The verdict? Great game, great system, but too rules-heavy for me and how I like to play these days. It would have been perfect for me years ago, but I don't want to wade through rules anymore.

Torg I had a blast with. I played the crap out of the original back in the 90s (and still have a pile of the books), but wanted to see how things had changed. The verdict? Not much. Aside from one or two new card mechanics, I couldn't even spot the differences. Admittedly, it has been a long time since I've tried the original, but it all looked familiar. That's a positive in my book. I may try it out if I can find the set on the cheap.

Mouseguard was the other way around. I'd never played it, but I love the comics. They've got a great feel that I'd love to see translated into an RPG. The verdict? I had a blast with this game. It's on my short list. The rules were abstract enough that they didn't require a ton of fiddling, and were simple enough that it wouldn't take a several sessions to get into the flow of it. The play was fast and exciting, and felt just right for the setting. Of course, some of that was on the GM, who knew the setting really well and did a good job of implementing it.

[Blackhawk]

Ok, now a board game question:

How is Dragonfire? This from someone who has played quite a bit of Shadowrun: Crossfire and enjoyed it. How do they compare? Are the mechanics similar? The difficulty? Can a game played right still be one or lost by one good card showing up early, or not showing up at all? (Doc Wagon, I'm looking at you.)

[hentzau]

Dragonfire did not sit well with my group. The game feels like a grind. It seems like you're expected to lose a scenario several times over to build up enough experience to be able to defeat it. We played it about 3 times and no one has suggested that we bring it back out again. We'd rather play PACG.

[Blackhawk]

Dragonfire did not sit well with my group. The game feels like a grind. It seems like you're expected to lose a scenario several times over to build up enough experience to be able to defeat it. We played it about 3 times and no one has suggested that we bring it back out again. We'd rather play PACG.

Actually, that sounds exactly like Shadowrun: Crossfire. It was nearly unwinnable until you'd upgraded your characters at least once. Unless you got lucky on a win, that meant five failed games before you actually had a chance of winning.

[Isgrimnur]

[Blackhawk]

So, I keep my Steam library organized, all 566 games. I have them sorted primarily by genre and subgenre, with special cross-categories for cooperative games, multiplayer games, current games, games that are high on my 'to play' list, a set of games to hide, and so on. I've been working those games and polishing those categories for years now.

So today I log into Steam and they're all gone. Every one of the games is now exclusively in a 'games' folder. I search online for answers, and I find thousands of similar complaints going back years, none with solutions. Valve can apparently do everything on the cloud except back up settings.

It would take me an ungodly number of hours to recategorize every one of those almost 600 games. Probably multiple days. And not knowing the cause of the problem, I'd be setting myself up to do it again. So screw Steam. I'm going to do some research and see if there is a third-party front end that will let me do what Steam does, plus maybe let me bring in my Origin/Uplay/GoG/Twitch game libraries as well.

[Anonymous Bosch]

So, I keep my Steam library organized, all 566 games. I have them sorted primarily by genre and subgenre, with special cross-categories for cooperative games, multiplayer games, current games, games that are high on my 'to play' list, a set of games to hide, and so on. I've been working those games and polishing those categories for years now.

So today I log into Steam and they're all gone. Every one of the games is now exclusively in a 'games' folder. I search online for answers, and I find thousands of similar complaints going back years, none with solutions. Valve can apparently do everything on the cloud except back up settings.

It would take me an ungodly number of hours to recategorize every one of those almost 600 games. Probably multiple days. And not knowing the cause of the problem, I'd be setting myself up to do it again. So screw Steam.

[Blackhawk]

Man shakes fist at cloud storage.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Rest assured, I empathise completely. That sorta stuff really gets on my wick.

[Daehawk]

Our pharmacy moved recently and left their old original big store empty. As we drove past it today my wife says the sign said a gaming store is going in. I have no idea what they will have. She thinks it said The Gaming Warehouse or The Gaming Market. I found nothing online for it so Im guessing its jus ta local mom and pop store. Im hoping its more than board games and such as we already have a nice one called Dragon Dice I think it is. Im hoping for used PC games. Though these days I doubt it.

[Smoove_B]

Im hoping for used PC games. Though these days I doubt it.

I...don't think that's even possible anymore.

[Blackhawk]

Used PC games would require that the games existed on physical media. Does that even happen? And could a used PC game store ever compete with Steam sales well enough to stay in business?

You're either getting a new/used console store, or you're getting a tabletop gaming store.

[Isgrimnur]

I bought GR: Wildlands on disc for XBOne, then sold it back to Amazon. But there's not much chance of a PC version of that these days. The pirates have ruined it.

[Daehawk]

Ya not possible with new stuff. I mean old boxed games. I haven't been in or seen a used pc game store since about 1999.

[Paingod]

The industry changed. Rules-light became the new, popular thing. Games like FATE and Apocalypse World where the players had a hand in the narrative (literally telling the GM what's in the world rather than the other way around), and the actual mechanics were minimized became popular. Games began to use roleplaying itself (acting in-character) as a mechanic rather than stats.

I really like this concept, and would enjoy seeing it in action. I haven't had a chance to do a tabletop session with real players in 20+ years. My brain is still stuck on AD&D, before version numbers.

Personally, I liked Pathfinder's 'feel', but the rules were way too elaborate. Many a game night ended up being a six hour session with two combats and not much else. The rules neither encourage nor reward roleplay or storytelling, elements that are considered the make-or-break of an RPG for many people these days.

I bought three Pathfinder books years ago - the Core and two monster manuals. Mostly, I enjoy reading through them all. Recently, though, my 9 year old expressed some interest and I helped him and his 7 year old brother put together characters and dropped them into a vastly simplified combat simulation to try out fighting some Goblins. The 9 year old loved it, the 7 year old not so much - but he's willing to try again.

I faked a game board and pieces using colored beads of glass, and it took about 30 minutes for one big drawn-out fight where reinforcements kept coming in stronger waves.

I've always seen the books as "Take it or leave it" rules, but can see where it's hard to get a group of strangers to agree to rule modifications. When I played with friends, we would all discuss changing rules and implement them without issue. If something was too much, we just skipped it. If something felt too loose, we tightened it.

Last year at GenCon, Paizo released Starfinder, which was a sci-fi version of Pathfinder and was somewhat slimmed down.

Pathfinder 2.0 is now on the way, and the article is suggesting that people should look at Starfinder as an example of what Paizo may have in mind.

I've bought into Starfinder books as well, with the Core sitting on my desk and a couple more books coming. I adore the setting, and it doesn't look overly complex - yet. I'm mostly drawn to the Sci-Fi theme, and the ability to put together a space ship. I had flashbacks to Spelljammer. Since I don't buy into the 13 variations of Advanced Combat or Super Spellcasters and other whatnot I think my experience and perception is pretty narrow.

At the very back of the Starfinder book, it includes rules for converting everything from Pathfinder to Starfinder, relatively smoothly - even creatures, so my monster manuals don't have to go to waste. After I've learned enough of it, I'm going to give them the option of moving to Starfinder via a spaceship they randomly encounter in Pathfinder.

[Blackhawk]

I bought three Pathfinder books years ago - the Core and two monster manuals. Mostly, I enjoy reading through them all. Recently, though, my 9 year old expressed some interest and I helped him and his 7 year old brother put together characters and dropped them into a vastly simplified combat simulation to try out fighting some Goblins. The 9 year old loved it, the 7 year old not so much - but he's willing to try again.

Get thee to Savage Worlds. It's a much lighter system, with much faster combat. It would be a great game to introduce kids to RPGs. The best thing is that you only need one book to play, and you can get the basic version of it for only $9. link

I faked a game board and pieces using colored beads of glass, and it took about 30 minutes for one big drawn-out fight where reinforcements kept coming in stronger waves.

Look into printable paper miniatures if you get the inclination again. There are some that cost, but there are some great free ones out there. Pinnacle (the Savage Worlds people) call theirs 'figure flats', Pathfinder calls theirs 'Pathfinder Pawns.'

Link

Link

[Paingod]

I bought three Pathfinder books years ago - the Core and two monster manuals. Mostly, I enjoy reading through them all. Recently, though, my 9 year old expressed some interest and I helped him and his 7 year old brother put together characters and dropped them into a vastly simplified combat simulation to try out fighting some Goblins. The 9 year old loved it, the 7 year old not so much - but he's willing to try again.

Get thee to Savage Worlds. It's a much lighter system, with much faster combat. It would be a great game to introduce kids to RPGs. The best thing is that you only need one book to play, and you can get the basic version of it for only $9. link

I'll have to add it to my list. I'm just starting to re-learn Pathfinder and digest Starfinder, and the kids have played exactly once. I'm by no means a slave to rules and think fun overrides all else, so I'm fudging everything left and right and skipping vast swaths of tedious rules and options. The primary goal is to have a basic framework and an assortment of challenges to present them with, and slowly ramp it up over time. I say we're playing Pathfinder, but really we're playing "a tabletop adventure" with Pathfinder pictures.

Because I expected them to get frustrated if it took too long, I had them pick out gear based strictly on appearance and classes based on general themes. Combat is simplified as well, no feats and stunts - just play. The 7 year old is a Fighter with a Flail, a Steel Shield, and Scale Mail; the 9 year old is a Sorcerer with a Sickle, Magic Missile, and Sleep. Both chose to be Human. I'm running a Dwarven Cleric to keep them from getting annoyed with being hurt.

[Anonymous Bosch]

The industry changed. Rules-light became the new, popular thing. Games like FATE and Apocalypse World where the players had a hand in the narrative (literally telling the GM what's in the world rather than the other way around), and the actual mechanics were minimized became popular. Games began to use roleplaying itself (acting in-character) as a mechanic rather than stats.

I really like this concept, and would enjoy seeing it in action. I haven't had a chance to do a tabletop session with real players in 20+ years. My brain is still stuck on AD&D, before version numbers.

If you'd like to see FATE in action, have a butcher's at the following episode from Wil Wheaton's TableTop series:

[Paingod]

Interesting. It looks like each character is "built" during the adventure. How does that hold up over time in a campaign setting?

[Anonymous Bosch]

Interesting. It looks like each character is "built" during the adventure. How does that hold up over time in a campaign setting?

You can read how campaigns and the 'long game' work in FATE Core right here.

[Paingod]

Interesting. It looks like each character is "built" during the adventure. How does that hold up over time in a campaign setting?

You can read how campaigns and the 'long game' work in FATE Core right here.

I feel like my age is showing here, or at least, the decades of absence from the pen & paper scene. I still look for the biggest, prettiest hardcover books when I go game hunting - assuming they'll have the best, most interesting rules. It doesn't even occur to me that a lot of the info is online and available if I just looked.

[Blackhawk]

Yep. For Savage Worlds, let me suggest downloading the free Test Drive pdfs. They give a very basic form of the rules, pregenerated characters, and an adventure (which is unlikely suitable for kids, but will give you an idea of how the system works.)

Lankhmar Test Drive

Wild Hunt Test Drive

If you'd like to see FATE in action, have a butcher's at the following episode from Wil Wheaton's TableTop series:

I'll take "Regionalisms I've Never Heard" for $500, please!

[Anonymous Bosch]

If you'd like to see FATE in action, have a butcher's at the following episode from Wil Wheaton's TableTop series:

I'll take "Regionalisms I've Never Heard" for $500, please!

Heh, old habits die hard. It's cockney rhyming slang. Butcher's = butcher's hook = look. So, "Have a butcher's" = have a look.

[AWS260]

Mike Fahey of Kotaku is recovering from an aortic dissection. Here's wishing him all the best; he seems like a genuinely wonderful guy.

He's home.

[Isgrimnur]

Spoiler:

This hospital WiFi blocks Netflix, Hulu and iTunes. It’s the worst thing that’s happened to me since I had an aortic dissection and became paralyzed from the chest down. #toosoon

Damn.

[Paingod]

Last year at GenCon, Paizo released Starfinder, which was a sci-fi version of Pathfinder and was somewhat slimmed down.

Okay, so I spent last night sifting through character creation in Starfinder, and so far I do not feel like this is slimmed down - unless it's "slimmer" than Pathfinder+All Expansion Content.

I wanted to see what a Level 6 Mercenary/Mechanic would look like; robotics and pets fighting for me are a big thing to me in games. I figured that would be a character "worthy" enough to own a small spaceship, so I wanted to get into that too a little. I spent the better part of two hours and am maybe 2/3 done making this one. Granted, it's a first character and everything needs to be researched, but the research isn't hard as the book is well laid out, often telling me which pages to jump to for more info. I'm noting every page number on the character sheet for where the data is found so I can use it as a template for future characters and speed things up.

I printed off the official character sheet to use and almost ran out of space for all the detail, abilities, skills, feats, and misc stuff my character can do - and I write tiny on these sheets. As a Mechanic, I not only design my character, but I also have to design a Rig and Drone. Both are "part" of my character and provide great bonuses - but it's a bit more work for each.

It's almost like the Mechanic should have it's own character sheet. It barely fits into the generic format. I wonder if every class combo will be like that.

Some things of interest - The system uses "Stamina" and "Resolve" - two things not found in Pathfinder. These are like soft healing and recharging built into every character. Stamina absorbs all damage before you get to health, and can be recharged with 10 minutes rest and 1 Resolve point. Resolve can be used to prevent death and get back into the fight, and recharges with longer periods of rest or special events. For an example of how they look on a character, my Level 6 Mechanic has 42 Stamina and 40 Health with 8 Resolve. That's a lot of numbers to juggle during a fight. I was thinking of using counters so I wasn't constantly erasing, but now I'm thinking this game either needs a computer companion app to track everything, or everyone who plays needs a notebook of scrap paper.

Anyway - all that and I haven't even gotten to equipping myself or building a ship.

I loved that FATE concept of having players tell you what they see and adapting the game to match that - and see no reason why it couldn't apply to everything. Just add it and roll with it. The next time I play with the kids, I'm going to see what they think of it.

[Blackhawk]

The first rule of RPGs: Search online for alternative character sheets. Official sheets are rarely worth the effort to print. They always tend to put useless information on the first page and give you about half of the space you need for the important stuff. I can't see myself going back to any rules-heavy system again (if you like Fate, make sure you check out Powered by the Apocalypse games...), but I have never found an official sheet for a heavy game that was usable.

As an aside, I've become a firm believer in landscape character sheets. It gives you wider columns, which are much easier to work with.

[Paingod]

When I was into this on a higher level, everything I used was custom built by me for my own needs. I'll probably do the same again. Me and MS Word go way back...

I just didn't know exactly what to look for. Now I do.

[Blackhawk]

[GreenGoo]

I bought GR: Wildlands on disc for XBOne, then sold it back to Amazon. But there's not much chance of a PC version of that these days. The pirates have ruined it.

Wait. Digital content delivery is the fault of pirates?

[Isgrimnur]

I bought GR: Wildlands on disc for XBOne, then sold it back to Amazon. But there's not much chance of a PC version of that these days. The pirates have ruined it.

Wait. Digital content delivery is the fault of pirates?

Nope, CD burners.

[raydude]

Just did an inventory of all the boardgames I own. I have 55 with 3 more coming via kickstarter! I really need to get rid of a lot of them. Does anyone have any recommendations for how to get rid of boardgames? I did the ebay thing 15 years ago and that was time consuming. I tried to get back into ebay 5 years ago but nothing sold that time.

[Isgrimnur]

Find a convention nearby that does a swap meet. Coop regularly offloads his stuff at BGGCon in the fall.

[Smoove_B]

Does anyone have any recommendations for how to get rid of boardgames?

I've been trading/selling mine to a online vendor. I send a list; they provide me a quote and then send me shipping labels. All I need to do is box them up and drop them off at FedEx. I do it because it's so much easier than trying to deal with eBay or finding a local way to get rid of them. Send me a PM if you want more info.

[Punisher]

I would also say to make a post in the trade forum. Maybe you have something an OOer is looking for...

[Anonymous Bosch]

Does anyone have any recommendations for how to get rid of boardgames?

I've been trading/selling mine to a online vendor. I send a list; they provide me a quote and then send me shipping labels. All I need to do is box them up and drop them off at FedEx. I do it because it's so much easier than trying to deal with eBay or finding a local way to get rid of them. Send me a PM if you want more info.

Definitely this.

While it may not net you the absolute top-dollar value for your games, it's the simplest and easiest option by far if you prefer to avoid the hassle and inconvenience of selling and shipping your games individually via BGG's GeekMarket or eBay.

[Zarathud]

I sell at GenCon. Prices in the consignment store are decent.