The Former Trump Presidency Thread

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:43 am

Fox Radio News must be managed drastically different than the TV/web news departments. I started listening to their hourly podcast news updates in my car just to see how far right the news could be...only to discover they're actually pretty "fair and balanced".

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:44 am

Holman wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:44 am
Skinypupy wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:31 am I suppose we can hold this up as example #8,254 of why Trump is an amoral garbage person, but that's basically common knowledge at this point.

Outside of that, I'm not sure what these tapes really do to hurt him.
I'm not sure it can be made to hurt him in the current climate, but the tapes indicate a crime.

The conversation is very clearly about managing secrets for election purposes, which makes it campaign-funding-relevant, which means Trump hid a $250,000 payment that he was required to report. That's a straight-up felony (and whether Trump said "cash" or "check" or both doesn't change that).

The list will be pretty long when the reckoning comes, but this is an unambiguous item for it.

I thought the $250K payment was never actually made, though. Correct?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:48 am

Kurth wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:44 am
Holman wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:44 am
Skinypupy wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:31 am I suppose we can hold this up as example #8,254 of why Trump is an amoral garbage person, but that's basically common knowledge at this point.

Outside of that, I'm not sure what these tapes really do to hurt him.
I'm not sure it can be made to hurt him in the current climate, but the tapes indicate a crime.

The conversation is very clearly about managing secrets for election purposes, which makes it campaign-funding-relevant, which means Trump hid a $250,000 payment that he was required to report. That's a straight-up felony (and whether Trump said "cash" or "check" or both doesn't change that).

The list will be pretty long when the reckoning comes, but this is an unambiguous item for it.
I thought the $250K payment was never actually made, though. Correct?

I think the deal is that the Enquirer paid $150K to MacDougal for the story, with the intent to bury it (which they did). Trump knew about that payment, and what it was for (to help his campaign), but never reimbursed the $150K. Which is worse, from a campaign law issue, as then it's a $150K contribution from the Enquirer to Trump's campaign, which he knew about and did not disclose (which is the felony).

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:59 am

El Guapo wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:48 am
Kurth wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:44 am
Holman wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:44 am
Skinypupy wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:31 am I suppose we can hold this up as example #8,254 of why Trump is an amoral garbage person, but that's basically common knowledge at this point.

Outside of that, I'm not sure what these tapes really do to hurt him.
I'm not sure it can be made to hurt him in the current climate, but the tapes indicate a crime.

The conversation is very clearly about managing secrets for election purposes, which makes it campaign-funding-relevant, which means Trump hid a $250,000 payment that he was required to report. That's a straight-up felony (and whether Trump said "cash" or "check" or both doesn't change that).

The list will be pretty long when the reckoning comes, but this is an unambiguous item for it.
I thought the $250K payment was never actually made, though. Correct?
I think the deal is that the Enquirer paid $150K to MacDougal for the story, with the intent to bury it (which they did). Trump knew about that payment, and what it was for (to help his campaign), but never reimbursed the $150K. Which is worse, from a campaign law issue, as then it's a $150K contribution from the Enquirer to Trump's campaign, which he knew about and did not disclose (which is the felony).

My question with all of these shady behaviors has been around what can actually be proven, which is why I sort of dismissed these tapes upon initial listen. While sketchy as all hell, they sound like conversations that any competent attorney could walk back pretty easily.

Interesting to see the campaign finance violation angle though, I hadn't really thought about that.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:20 am

hepcat wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:43 am Fox Radio News must be managed drastically different than the TV/web news departments. I started listening to their hourly podcast news updates in my car just to see how far right the news could be...only to discover they're actually pretty "fair and balanced".

The radio station I work with switched to Fox News for headlines at the top of every hour about a year ago. I was nervous when we switched, but they've been solid. Some of the minute long features we get from them though aren't nearly as balanced.

Fireball · Post by **Fireball** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:52 am

How long has Fox News Radio been a thing? Because Fox News the cable station started out as being pretty-straight news during the day, reserving the crazy to its evening opinion programs. Over the 00s they started filtering their skew into the news coverage, and since ’10 it's basically been full on batshit from midnight to midnight, save for the sad little monologues by Britt Hume. Perhaps the radio network is only in stage one of this process?

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:26 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:59 am While sketchy as all hell, they sound like conversations that any competent attorney could walk back pretty easily.

Good thing we're talking about Trump people, not competent people, then.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:56 pm

Fireball wrote:How long has Fox News Radio been a thing? Because Fox News the cable station started out as being pretty-straight news during the day, reserving the crazy to its evening opinion programs. Over the 00s they started filtering their skew into the news coverage, and since ’10 it's basically been full on batshit from midnight to midnight, save for the sad little monologues by Britt Hume. Perhaps the radio network is only in stage one of this process?

Wikipedia says 2003.

Don’t get me wrong. The network still carries garbage like the Brian Kilmeade Show and other opinion based programs. But the hourly news they do is solid.

Fireball · Post by **Fireball** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:18 pm

msteelers wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:56 pm
Fireball wrote:How long has Fox News Radio been a thing? Because Fox News the cable station started out as being pretty-straight news during the day, reserving the crazy to its evening opinion programs. Over the 00s they started filtering their skew into the news coverage, and since ’10 it's basically been full on batshit from midnight to midnight, save for the sad little monologues by Britt Hume. Perhaps the radio network is only in stage one of this process?
Wikipedia says 2003.

Don’t get me wrong. The network still carries garbage like the Brian Kilmeade Show and other opinion based programs. But the hourly news they do is solid.

Yeah, I assume the actual programming on any non-NPR "news radio" station is going to be a dumpster fire, but good on Fox for keeping their news updates free of bias.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:34 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:59 am
El Guapo wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:48 am
Kurth wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:44 am
Holman wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:44 am
Skinypupy wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:31 am I suppose we can hold this up as example #8,254 of why Trump is an amoral garbage person, but that's basically common knowledge at this point.

Outside of that, I'm not sure what these tapes really do to hurt him.
I'm not sure it can be made to hurt him in the current climate, but the tapes indicate a crime.

The conversation is very clearly about managing secrets for election purposes, which makes it campaign-funding-relevant, which means Trump hid a $250,000 payment that he was required to report. That's a straight-up felony (and whether Trump said "cash" or "check" or both doesn't change that).

The list will be pretty long when the reckoning comes, but this is an unambiguous item for it.
I thought the $250K payment was never actually made, though. Correct?
I think the deal is that the Enquirer paid $150K to MacDougal for the story, with the intent to bury it (which they did). Trump knew about that payment, and what it was for (to help his campaign), but never reimbursed the $150K. Which is worse, from a campaign law issue, as then it's a $150K contribution from the Enquirer to Trump's campaign, which he knew about and did not disclose (which is the felony).
My question with all of these shady behaviors has been around what can actually be proven, which is why I sort of dismissed these tapes upon initial listen. While sketchy as all hell, they sound like conversations that any competent attorney could walk back pretty easily.

Interesting to see the campaign finance violation angle though, I hadn't really thought about that.

Well, except for the actual payments documentation, etc. You know, corroborating evidence...

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:44 pm

Felony vandalism? How about Congressional Medal of Honor?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:51 pm

Judge allows emoluments clause lawsuit to proceed.

This is the suit by the Maryland and D.C. AGs. They already won on standing grounds, so this is the first ruling (ever, I think) to interpret the definition of "emoluments" within the clause. The judge ruled that it applies to "any profit, gain or advantage" of value that Trump has gotten from foreign, the federal or domestic governments, including profits from transactions at fair market value.

Unless there are other preliminary hurdles to overcome, I would assume that DOJ would appeal this decision and the standing decision, though we'll see. If not discovery should be pretty interesting. There is the interesting question of what the remedy would be for any violation, though I would expect the AGs to see an order compelling Trump to actually divest himself from at least his relevant hotel business.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:56 pm

Trump gets unhinged about Pai blocking the Sinclair merger:

President Donald Trump yesterday lashed out at the Federal Communications Commission over its vote to block Sinclair Broadcast Group's acquisition of Tribune Media Company.

"So sad and unfair that the FCC wouldn't approve the Sinclair Broadcast merger with Tribune," Trump tweeted.

A combination of Sinclair and Tribune "would have been a great and much needed Conservative voice for and of the People," Trump wrote. Trump contrasted the Sinclair/Tribune denial with the FCC's approval of Comcast's purchase of NBCUniversal, which happened in 2011.

"Liberal Fake News NBC and Comcast gets approved, much bigger, but not Sinclair. Disgraceful!" Trump wrote.

Can we just have a single state propaganda voice, dammit!

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:38 am

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/us/p ... trade.html

The potential for one of those right twice a day actions from this clock. Of course, the caveat is that from where I sit it's still potential and potential form this GOP administration is from a process firmly in place.

WASHINGTON — The United States and the European Union stepped back from the brink of a trade war on Wednesday, after President Trump said the Europeans agreed to work toward lower tariffs and other trade barriers, and to buy billions of dollars of American soybeans and natural gas.

The surprise announcement, made by Mr. Trump and the president of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, defused, for the moment, a trade battle that began with Mr. Trump’s tariffs on steel and aluminum exports and threatened to escalate to automobiles.

“We’re starting the negotiation right now, but we know very much where it’s going,” Mr. Trump said, standing next to Mr. Juncker at a hastily scheduled appearance in the White House Rose Garden.

Mr. Juncker said, “I had the intention to make a deal today, and we have made a deal today.”

The two sides, he said, had agreed to hold off on further tariffs, and work toward dropping the existing ones on steel and aluminum, while they tried to work out a deal to eliminate tariffs, nontariff barriers and subsidies on industrial goods, excluding autos.

Not just hit the tarriff reset button but

nontariff barriers and subsidies on industrial goods,

GungHo · Post by **GungHo** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:25 pm

LordMortis wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:38 am https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/us/p ... trade.html

The potential for one of those right twice a day actions from this clock. Of course, the caveat is that from where I sit it's still potential and potential form this GOP administration is from a process firmly in place.

WASHINGTON — The United States and the European Union stepped back from the brink of a trade war on Wednesday, after President Trump said the Europeans agreed to work toward lower tariffs and other trade barriers, and to buy billions of dollars of American soybeans and natural gas.

The surprise announcement, made by Mr. Trump and the president of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, defused, for the moment, a trade battle that began with Mr. Trump’s tariffs on steel and aluminum exports and threatened to escalate to automobiles.

“We’re starting the negotiation right now, but we know very much where it’s going,” Mr. Trump said, standing next to Mr. Juncker at a hastily scheduled appearance in the White House Rose Garden.

Mr. Juncker said, “I had the intention to make a deal today, and we have made a deal today.”

The two sides, he said, had agreed to hold off on further tariffs, and work toward dropping the existing ones on steel and aluminum, while they tried to work out a deal to eliminate tariffs, nontariff barriers and subsidies on industrial goods, excluding autos.
Not just hit the tarriff reset button but

nontariff barriers and subsidies on industrial goods,

So I'm confused..does this mean we're basically back to where we started wth the EU prior to trump enacting tariffs? Short question : did we 'win'?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:30 pm

GungHo wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:25 pm
LordMortis wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:38 am https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/us/p ... trade.html

The potential for one of those right twice a day actions from this clock. Of course, the caveat is that from where I sit it's still potential and potential form this GOP administration is from a process firmly in place.

WASHINGTON — The United States and the European Union stepped back from the brink of a trade war on Wednesday, after President Trump said the Europeans agreed to work toward lower tariffs and other trade barriers, and to buy billions of dollars of American soybeans and natural gas.

The surprise announcement, made by Mr. Trump and the president of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, defused, for the moment, a trade battle that began with Mr. Trump’s tariffs on steel and aluminum exports and threatened to escalate to automobiles.

“We’re starting the negotiation right now, but we know very much where it’s going,” Mr. Trump said, standing next to Mr. Juncker at a hastily scheduled appearance in the White House Rose Garden.

Mr. Juncker said, “I had the intention to make a deal today, and we have made a deal today.”

The two sides, he said, had agreed to hold off on further tariffs, and work toward dropping the existing ones on steel and aluminum, while they tried to work out a deal to eliminate tariffs, nontariff barriers and subsidies on industrial goods, excluding autos.
Not just hit the tarriff reset button but

nontariff barriers and subsidies on industrial goods,

So I'm confused..does this mean we're basically back to where we started wth the EU prior to trump enacting tariffs? Short question : did we 'win'?

The short answer is no. It's like the North Korea agreement, in that it's kind of a vague useless agreement that, in practical effect, at most gets us back to the status quo before Trump fucked everything up. The good news is that it's an improvement over Trump actively fucking everything up (in that hopefully it gets us out of the cycle of retaliatory tariffs that Trump got us into).

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:47 pm

Trump literally just showed off a "Make Our Farmers Great Again" hat...in John Deere colors.

The Onion couldn't make up anything more ridiculous if they tried.

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1022529939151585280

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:52 pm

Not yet available at shop.donaldjtrump.com.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:15 pm

Skinypupy wrote:Trump literally just showed off a "Make Our Farmers Great Again" hat...in John Deere colors.

The Onion couldn't make up anything more ridiculous if they tried.

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1022529939151585280

Did he toss them into the crowd like paper towels?

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:25 pm

OMFG. I'll give him this, he manages to surprise me almost every day. We are definitely not in a boring relationship.

"Make hats. The idiots love hats."

Also: MOFGA

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:40 pm

I wonder if the hats were made in China? Oh the irony like that Alanis Morissette song.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:44 pm

Oh, that song that tries to teach us the meaning of irony by listing nothing but coincidences?

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:47 pm

Someone may want to check on that blond lady sitting next to him. Pretty sure she was blinking "send help" in morse code.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:49 pm

hepcat wrote:Oh, that song that tries to teach us the meaning of irony by listing nothing but coincidences?

Hey don't piss on my inaccurate anology!

(I have the urge however to try to change the lyrics to fit various events surrounding The Toddler In Chief)

On a non political note there's a musical based on Jagged Little Pill which I'd like to see someday.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:33 pm

hepcat wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:44 pm Oh, that song that tries to teach us the meaning of irony by listing nothing but coincidences?

I think what he's saying is Trump is playing that sad trombone noise "wah wah" like that Fox correspondant did to the sad farmers because that's what the Alanis Ironic sound was. I great big *wah wah* on repeat. One might say Trump just Lewandowskied the farmers of Iowa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP8sofAN4xc

Excuse me sir, did you just MAH GAH to a farmer in Iowa?

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:46 pm

Trumps fake news turns out to in fact be true again

A listing of Trump 'fake news' thats real news

In 497 days, President
Trump has made 3,251
false or misleading claims

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:28 am

In Trump's America, you need a photo ID just to buy groceries, so it's obvious that some sort of voter ID is entirely reasonable and proper.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:58 am

It looks like the constant attacks on the media are finally paying off:

https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/10244 ... 52/video/1

Just a sample of the sad scene we faced at the Trump rally in Tampa. I’m very worried that the hostility whipped up by Trump and some in conservative media will result in somebody getting hurt. We should not treat our fellow Americans this way. The press is not the enemy.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:12 am

I want to say Florida but that'd be optimistic. Overall that is really depressing. Each one of those people is completely brainwashed by one of the worst people in the world. Sad!

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:37 am

malchior wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:12 am I want to say Florida but that'd be optimistic. Overall that is really depressing. Each one of those people is completely brainwashed by one of the worst people in the world. Sad!

Brainwashed maybe, but most appear already predisposed to being assholes.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:19 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:37 am
malchior wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:12 am I want to say Florida but that'd be optimistic. Overall that is really depressing. Each one of those people is completely brainwashed by one of the worst people in the world. Sad!
Brainwashed maybe, but most appear already predisposed to being assholes.

You know it. Those weren't people who just became assholes in 2015 when this administration bade them to come out of the woodwork. They just found their common sense of purpose and outlet. He's their conduit. Their lightning rod. Their confederate battle flag.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:22 pm

I read something from Acosta a while back about his experience at one of these rallies. When people talked to him one-on-one, they were (relatively) reasonable and polite. Some even apologized for the crowds and said they knew that Trump was blowing things out of proportion for rhetorical purposes. It's possible that these people were outliers (they were willing to talk to Acosta, after all), and it's also possible that this is a lesson about mob mentalities. Probably a bit of both.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:24 pm

LordMortis wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:19 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:37 am
malchior wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:12 am I want to say Florida but that'd be optimistic. Overall that is really depressing. Each one of those people is completely brainwashed by one of the worst people in the world. Sad!
Brainwashed maybe, but most appear already predisposed to being assholes.
You know it. Those weren't people who just became assholes in 2015 when this administration bade them to come out of the woodwork. They just found their common sense of purpose and outlet. He's their conduit. Their lightning rod. Their confederate battle flag.

...their alphahole

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:03 pm

Apparently there were not just your average run of the mill asshole, they were Qanon assholes.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:55 pm

But in a way the angry mob is right. Most TV news has degenerated into hysterics, bullshit and content and style based on what "plays best with X demo" these days. I can't stand to watch it anymore. CNN disgusts me. Won't even get into Fox. They have themselves to blame in some ways, because so many have turned into game show hosts and used car salesmen, as opposed to journalists at least trying to be objective.

At least we have several newspapers which have not yet shit the bed, journalistically.

I will cite Jon Stewart claiming the same thing, YEARS ago. About both "sides" (but yes, mostly Fox)...modern cable news networks are toxic to our country, and we are just now seeing the result of 15+ years of their ratings-chasing, side-taking shenanigans.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:05 pm

If Nixon had had a Fox-addled Deplorable crowd on his side, they would have treated Walter Cronkite the same way they treat Jim Acosta. In fact in Goldwater circles they did. We've just forgotten.

Don't fall into the equivalency/whataboutism trap. The bias you get from a Maddow or Cooper is nothing like the distorted reality coming from Sean Hannity or Tucker Carlson, and questions asked at WH press briefings are models of balanced inquiry compared to the lies coming from the podium.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:53 am

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:55 pm But in a way the angry mob is right. Most TV news has degenerated into hysterics, bullshit and content and style based on what "plays best with X demo" these days. I can't stand to watch it anymore. CNN disgusts me. Won't even get into Fox. They have themselves to blame in some ways, because so many have turned into game show hosts and used car salesmen, as opposed to journalists at least trying to be objective.

At least we have several newspapers which have not yet shit the bed, journalistically.

I will cite Jon Stewart claiming the same thing, YEARS ago. About both "sides" (but yes, mostly Fox)...modern cable news networks are toxic to our country, and we are just now seeing the result of 15+ years of their ratings-chasing, side-taking shenanigans.

I think the cause and effect is partly reversed. The cable news does this because this is what audiences demand of them. The people watching are the ones taking sides. The cable news people are just playing to their respective audiences. They however have fueled that culture war fire and now it is completely out of control.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 am

Holman wrote: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:05 pm Don't fall into the equivalency/whataboutism trap. The bias you get from a Maddow or Cooper is nothing like the distorted reality coming from Sean Hannity or Tucker Carlson, and questions asked at WH press briefings are models of balanced inquiry compared to the lies coming from the podium.

You don't say...

https://mobile.twitter.com/seanhannity/ ... 8277768192

Spoiler:

One side is questioning the administration and calling out falsehoods. AKA, doing their jobs. The other is blatantly jockeying for government appointments and ass-space to apply tongue to in consideration of preferential treatment.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:27 am

Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity have been Hurting America for a decade.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:50 am

Let me clarify my position: FOX News is a different beast than the other TV news channels I am criticizing. They are different in both the degree, and the type of danger they have created. Definitely a more agenda-focused, sinister approach.

Hypothesis: Had the non-Fox news channels maintained a certain level of journalism and excellence, they would perhaps be in a better position to defend themselves today (at least in my eyes).

Edit: Ha! I started to continue defining my "argument" and I ended up in a completely different place. Bear with me while I walk myself back from this...

I started to say that I understand that the FOX/Trump reasons for hating the press is different than my "they're all shitty" argument, but that the result is the same. Not true. Had CNN, et al, maintained their journalistic integrity and quality, they would still likely be targeted today. Fox/Trump followers don't care about whether or not the news is objective, professional, and of high journalistic quality. They just want it to agree with their "side", and anything to the contrary is fake (we all know this).

Their reasoning for hating the non-Fox press is dangerous, whether the targets are shitty or not.