SCOTUS Watch

[LawBeefaroni]

Trump has also been pretty off-brand on Kavanaugh's drinking.

Trump is no fan of alcohol since his brother's death I gather.

The issue is that Kavanaugh was testifying about how he was a moderate drinker at the time (and now), never got black out drunk, didn't drink to excess, etc. Which is part of saying "this couldn't have happened, because I never got blackout drunk". So Trump getting up and saying "boy, it sure sounds like he drank a lot when he was young!" isn't really helping out his boy.

Well he said, "He did have difficulty as a young man with drink.” He may have been referring to difficulty in acquiring and finishing 100 kegs in a single school year.

[El Guapo]

Trump has also been pretty off-brand on Kavanaugh's drinking.

Trump is no fan of alcohol since his brother's death I gather.

The issue is that Kavanaugh was testifying about how he was a moderate drinker at the time (and now), never got black out drunk, didn't drink to excess, etc. Which is part of saying "this couldn't have happened, because I never got blackout drunk". So Trump getting up and saying "boy, it sure sounds like he drank a lot when he was young!" isn't really helping out his boy.

Well he said, "He did have difficulty as a young man with drink.” He may have been referring to difficulty in acquiring and finishing 100 kegs in a single school year.

Or maybe this was Kavanaugh's drinking problem:

[Chaz]

Nah, the problem was trying to read the chart and take an accurate blood alcohol reading while doing a keg stand.

Seriously, there's never been anyone in the history of anything that used "brewskis" unironically (bonus points for abbreviating it to "skis") that hasn't been pretty damn hammered regularly.

[Enough]

Well this is interesting,



https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1046888597062918147

Some interesting bits:

Kav told the judiciary committee he never heard of the Ramirez allegation until he read the New Yorker article, isn't that like clear-cut perjury based on this evidence?

Is Kav tampering with witnesses? Is this a good sign that Kav would have worked with wacky Whelan on that crazy tweetstorm?

In the days leading up to a public allegation that Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh exposed himself to a college classmate, the judge and his team were communicating behind the scenes with friends to refute the claim, according to text messages obtained by NBC News.

Kerry Berchem, who was at Yale with both Kavanaugh and his accuser, Deborah Ramirez, has tried to get those messages to the FBI for its newly reopened investigation into the matter but says she has yet to be contacted by the bureau.

The texts between Berchem and Karen Yarasavage, both friends of Kavanaugh, suggest that the nominee was personally talking with former classmates about Ramirez’s story in advance of the New Yorker article that made her allegation public. In one message, Yarasavage said Kavanaugh asked her to go on the record in his defense. Two other messages show communication between Kavanaugh's team and former classmates in advance of the story.

The texts also demonstrate that Kavanaugh and Ramirez were more socially connected than previously understood and that Ramirez was uncomfortable around Kavanaugh when they saw each other at a wedding 10 years after they graduated. Berchem's efforts also show that some potential witnesses have been unable to get important information to the FBI.

Berchem’s memo outlining her correspondence with Yarasavage shows there’s a circle of Kavanaugh friends who may have pertinent information and evidence relevant to the inquiry who may not be interviewed. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has already set in motion a vote on Kavanaugh’s nomination on the Senate floor for later this week.

[Enough]

Mr. Fed just tweeted about the article in my previous post...



https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1046890452710907904

[malchior]

Yup - he's right. After all this and even with an open investigation I'd still sit on my "five 9s" prediction from weeks ago. The GOP has no moral or ethical compass anymore. It is just pointing in the direction where power lies.

[Chaz]

At this point, there could be a document presented that proved that his name actually is Bart O'Kavanaugh, and that he co-wrote Judge's book, and the Republicans would still be fine with putting him on the court.

[Holman]

Our only hope is that Jeff Flake wants to be a painter or a novelist instead of a lobbyist.

[Enough]

Our only hope is that Jeff Flake wants to be a painter or a novelist instead of a lobbyist.

Can we arrange for those two women to greet him daily in the elevator until this gets resolved?

[Smoove_B]

In case anyone was wondering:

"The goalpost keeps shifting, but the goal hasn't moved an inch. Not an inch," McConnell said on the Senate floor Monday. "Let me make it very clear. The time for endless delay and obstruction has come to a close. Judge Kavanaugh's confirmation is out of committee. We're considering it here on the floor. ... We'll be voting on it this week."

I'm thinking that Mitch maybe sold his soul to a demon to get this far and unless there's a vote, the demon will be able to legit take Mitch's soul. Hopefully it happens on TV. Also, F Mitch McConnell and his bullshit lying nonsense.

[YellowKing]

I seriously don't know how the man sleeps at night. He's like Mr. Burns brought to life.

[malchior]

He sleeps great probably. Like all true monsters he thinks he is the good guy.

[Defiant]

How much can he really love beer if he's willing to throw it at someone.

When the man noticed Mr. Ludington, Mr. Kavanaugh and the others looking at him, he objected and told them to stop it, adding an expletive, Mr. Ludington said.

Mr. Kavanaugh cursed, he said, and then “threw his beer at the guy.”

“The guy swung at Brett,” Mr. Ludington continued. At that point, Mr. Dudley “took his beer and smashed it into the head of the guy, who by now had Brett in an embrace. I then tried to pull Chris back, and a bunch of other guys tried to pull the other guy back. I don’t know what Brett was doing in the melee, but there was blood, there was glass, there was beer and there was some shouting, and the police showed up.”

Kavanaugh Was Questioned by Police After Bar Fight in 1985

[hepcat]

Trump has also been pretty off-brand on Kavanaugh's drinking.

Trump is no fan of alcohol since his brother's death I gather.

Odd. The way he treated him, you’d think he would have had a celebratory drink when his brother died.

[GreenGoo]

Who calls two men grappling each other an "embrace"?

You'd have to be hilariously disconnected from the violence and struggle that's involved in a fight, even a lame ass drunken wrestling match, to call it that. Or writing a book maybe. Or poetry, I guess.

It's just weirdly jarring to see it described as such.

edit: I don't mean it's uncomfortable talking about two men embracing. I mean it's weirdly jarring to call a scrap with two opponents "embracing".

[Kurth]

How much can he really love beer if he's willing to throw it at someone.

When the man noticed Mr. Ludington, Mr. Kavanaugh and the others looking at him, he objected and told them to stop it, adding an expletive, Mr. Ludington said.

Mr. Kavanaugh cursed, he said, and then “threw his beer at the guy.”

“The guy swung at Brett,” Mr. Ludington continued. At that point, Mr. Dudley “took his beer and smashed it into the head of the guy, who by now had Brett in an embrace. I then tried to pull Chris back, and a bunch of other guys tried to pull the other guy back. I don’t know what Brett was doing in the melee, but there was blood, there was glass, there was beer and there was some shouting, and the police showed up.”

Kavanaugh Was Questioned by Police After Bar Fight in 1985

No need to worry: Ludington has changed his tune. Not beer. A mixed drink with ice. RESPECT THE SKI.

[GreenGoo]

I'm gonna tell a little anecdote. I'm putting it here because it's somewhat tangentially related. I'll put it in spoilers so it doesn't take up much screen real estate for those who aren't interested.

This is a story about something that I witnessed when at University. It's not about sexual assault, it's about heavy drinking, fighting and concerns for the future. Not sure if it's interesting, but it came to mind recently so I thought I'd write it down. I'll try to be more succinct (never mind) than is my usual style, but no promises.

The story came to mind because I was reading headlines about Kavanaugh being questioned about the supposed brawl he was a part of, and because I was thinking just how sensationalized those headlines were, but how little I cared that he drank or got in the occasional fight as a kid. I mean, who cares, right?

Then I remember this event from my own early drinking days.

Spoiler:

I had a buddy that I met on my dorm floor. He was a moron in all ways except academically, where he was mediocre. He had this weird charisma though, and everyone gravitated towards him, like a cult leader.

Anyway, he has this friend. So he's a friend of a friend. Let's call him fof. He's also a townie. My buddy is from the university town, so he's both a townie and a student. So we're all out drinking. Heavy drinking. Stumble home and pass out drinking. It's at a club that's a solid mix of townies and students.

I'm in the john taking a leak and so is fof. It's crowded in there. A couple of stalls, a couple of sinks, a couple of urinals, and like 10-12 people wedged in there. You literally have to navigate a crowd to reach the toilets or the sink. fof is at a urinal and for some unfathomable reason, takes offense to dude at the urinal next to him (who turns out to be a 3rd or 4th year law student). Words are exchanged and fof goes nuts and starts swinging. He's swinging his fists, but that's not the only thing swinging, as his pants are down around his ankles and his dick is hanging out. I point this out because you have to be fucking crazy to throw the first punch before putting your dick away first, right? I mean, right? You are the guy that is starting the altercation. Put your dick away first. Or just really, really drunk I guess. My thoughts at the time was that fof was insane.

Well law student doesn't do *anything*. He's getting pounded in the face by this 1/2 naked crazy person and he's not swinging back, he's not defending himself, nothing. He's just taking it. Eventually they get separated and I'm sticking around watching this whole thing play out. I'm kind of in shocked awe of the whole thing. Plus my mind is moving slowly as I'm poisoning it with alcohol, so everything is kind of in slow motion.

Somebody asks law student wtf he was doing? just getting his ass kicked, what was the deal? etc etc His answer has always stuck with me even though I'll have to paraphrase because it's been 30 years.

Law student says, in effect, that if he gets a police record, or even just gets arrested or even just gets questioned by police about being in a bar brawl, it would likely mean that he could never become a lawyer and/or politician. His entire academic career is driving towards this goal, and it could vanish in an instant. I have no idea of that's true or not, but it sounded true, and the law student guy clearly thought it was true. So here's a young dude, 20 something, and he KNOWS that he needs to be careful about everything he does because he KNOWS it will come back to haunt him in the future. He's not willing to let typical youthful stupidity get in the way of his future.

Kavanaugh didn't have any of these thoughts. He never once thought he could lose his future because he was behaving like a drunken animal. He never once thought that there would ever be any consequences to his actions.

Yet I witnessed a dude in nearly the exact same situation, and he was thoughtful, careful, and mindful of everything he did and the future ramifications of those actions.

So maybe boys will be boys, drinking and brawling and groping, but maybe boys don't have to be those kinds of boys. Maybe it's possible to be a decent person even when you're young and crazy with that youth, whether because you have aspirations or just because you're not an asshole. I realize no one here actually excuses Kavanaugh for being a drunken gropey moron because he was a kid and a boy, but this story really drove home just how much you can control yourself even when you're in the wild days of your youth, and that *any* claims otherwise are just excuse making bullshit.

If some random young man can sit and take repeated punches to the face when every instinct had to be telling him to defend himself, then I don't want to hear how Kavanaugh is a victim of his own youth. And I say that even though I do not, personally, have any issue with him being a drunken asshole as a kid, although the gropey part is another story entirely.

That's it.

[hitbyambulance]

the best part

He said that the altercation happened after a UB40 concert on Sept. 25, when he and a group of people went to Demery’s and were drinking pints. At one point, they were sitting near a man who, they thought, resembled Ali Campbell, the lead singer of UB40.

[$iljanus]

the best part

He said that the altercation happened after a UB40 concert on Sept. 25, when he and a group of people went to Demery’s and were drinking pints. At one point, they were sitting near a man who, they thought, resembled Ali Campbell, the lead singer of UB40.

Should have stuck to red, red wine for the evening.

[Skinypupy]

the best part

He said that the altercation happened after a UB40 concert on Sept. 25, when he and a group of people went to Demery’s and were drinking pints. At one point, they were sitting near a man who, they thought, resembled Ali Campbell, the lead singer of UB40.

Going to a UB40 concert at any point in ones life should be an immediate disqualification for any position of authority. The lack of judgement it implies is staggering.

[Holman]

the best part

He said that the altercation happened after a UB40 concert on Sept. 25, when he and a group of people went to Demery’s and were drinking pints. At one point, they were sitting near a man who, they thought, resembled Ali Campbell, the lead singer of UB40.

I'm not a journalist, but... this weirdly exhaustive database of concert tour dates lists no UB40 shows in September 1985.

I'm sure it's just incomplete data, or something. But somehow it would be perfectly Kavanaugh for him to be lying about this too.

[Blackhawk]

I'm gonna tell a little anecdote.

I would love to know whether the victim was from a privileged background or not. That kind of insight seems to be particularly lacking in those who are used to not facing consequences. LIke Kavanaugh.

[hitbyambulance]

Going to a UB40 concert at any point in ones life should be an immediate disqualification for any position of authority. The lack of judgement it implies is staggering.

hey now. their first album (_Signing Off_, 1980) is pretty good.

[noxiousdog]

This article in the Atlantic echoes my feelings nearly exactly.

Mr. Fed posted it on FB.

[gameoverman]

I liked your story GreenGoo. I wonder though how drunk that guy was. In my experience there's a tipping point, a level of being drunk where you are still mindful of what's going on. Then you take another drink and you're over that line. I imagine a guy like that never allowed himself to approach that line, so in a crazy situation he still knows what's up.

Kavanaugh strikes me as the opposite. These guys, Ted Kennedy might have been another example, drink as they like and let the chips fall where they may. They have connections and wealth behind them, so they know the chips won't fall badly for them...most times.

[Kurth]

This article in the Atlantic echoes my feelings nearly exactly.

Mr. Fed posted it on FB.

Great article. I agree with the author's conclusions, although not entirely with the route that he got there. But the passage I liked best is this one:

Over the weekend, I listened to a number of podcasts in which liberals mocked Kavanaugh as an entitled white male refusing to face accountability for what he had done. I find the tone of these discussions nauseating—undetained by the possibility of error. I, like Jeff Flake, am haunted by doubt, by the certainty of uncertainty and the consequent possibility of injustice. I spent a lot of time this weekend thinking about Oliver Cromwell’s famous letter to the Church of Scotland in which he implored, “I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken.” I also spent some time with Learned Hand’s similar maxim, “The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right.” We all need to think it possible that we may be mistaken; we all need to be not too sure that we are right.

[Enough]

This article in the Atlantic echoes my feelings nearly exactly.

Mr. Fed posted it on FB.

Great article. I agree with the author's conclusions, although not entirely with the route that he got there. But the passage I liked best is this one:

Over the weekend, I listened to a number of podcasts in which liberals mocked Kavanaugh as an entitled white male refusing to face accountability for what he had done. I find the tone of these discussions nauseating—undetained by the possibility of error. I, like Jeff Flake, am haunted by doubt, by the certainty of uncertainty and the consequent possibility of injustice. I spent a lot of time this weekend thinking about Oliver Cromwell’s famous letter to the Church of Scotland in which he implored, “I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken.” I also spent some time with Learned Hand’s similar maxim, “The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right.” We all need to think it possible that we may be mistaken; we all need to be not too sure that we are right.

Great article agreed. Even toned and smart overall. I am pretty sure the same things could be said about blogesque reactions on both sides. It's not like this guy is a Dem trying to correct his cohort, so why the extra focus on liberals? To appeal to distraught conservatives?

[LawBeefaroni]

This article in the Atlantic echoes my feelings nearly exactly.

Mr. Fed posted it on FB.

Great article. I agree with the author's conclusions, although not entirely with the route that he got there. But the passage I liked best is this one:

Over the weekend, I listened to a number of podcasts in which liberals mocked Kavanaugh as an entitled white male refusing to face accountability for what he had done. I find the tone of these discussions nauseating—undetained by the possibility of error. I, like Jeff Flake, am haunted by doubt, by the certainty of uncertainty and the consequent possibility of injustice. I spent a lot of time this weekend thinking about Oliver Cromwell’s famous letter to the Church of Scotland in which he implored, “I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken.” I also spent some time with Learned Hand’s similar maxim, “The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right.” We all need to think it possible that we may be mistaken; we all need to be not too sure that we are right.

Agree with the gist of the article but quoting Oliver Cromwell? It's a touch tone deaf. I guess he wasn't nauseated by the fact that liberals were mocking Kavavaugh as an entitled white male so much as the idea that someone would mock entitled white males.

[hitbyambulance]

[Skinypupy]

Good to see Trump helping Kavanaugh's case by focusing on the real victims of the #metoo movement, men

President Trump said Tuesday the controversy surrounding Brett Kavaugh’s nomination to the Supreme Court shows it is a “scary time for young men.”

"It is a very scary time for young men in America, when you can be guilty of something you may not be guilty of," Trump told reporters on the South Lawn before leaving the White House.

Trump said Kavanaugh has been treated unfairly as multiple women have come forward to accuse the federal judge of sexual misconduct. The FBI is investigating the allegations, delaying a Senate confirmation vote.

"It's a very scary situation where you're guilty until proven innocent," the president said. "That is a very, very difficult standard."

Gosh, what are entitled young rapists to do these days?

[LawBeefaroni]

Where is this landslide of guilty-until-proven-innocent young men?

And if I'm a "young man in America" the last thing I want is Trump trying to defend me against something that isn't happening.

[GreenGoo]

I agree with the author's conclusions, although not entirely with the route that he got there.

+1, although I'm pretty sure we would disagree on which routes were the problem. His conclusions are both sound and appropriate in my opinion, so that's good enough.

[GreenGoo]

Good to see Trump helping Kavanaugh's case by focusing on the real victims of the #metoo movement, men

President Trump said Tuesday the controversy surrounding Brett Kavaugh’s nomination to the Supreme Court shows it is a “scary time for young men.”

"It is a very scary time for young men in America, when you can be guilty of something you may not be guilty of," Trump told reporters on the South Lawn before leaving the White House.

Trump said Kavanaugh has been treated unfairly as multiple women have come forward to accuse the federal judge of sexual misconduct. The FBI is investigating the allegations, delaying a Senate confirmation vote.

"It's a very scary situation where you're guilty until proven innocent," the president said. "That is a very, very difficult standard."

Gosh, what are entitled young rapists to do these days?

The problem isn't that 99% of the #metoo accusations have been supported by evidence and corroborating reports, it's that 1% of them have been proven false.

It's a national tragedy not that there is so much rape and sexual assault going on, it's that sometimes, rarely, a woman will make a false accusation.

Beware men. You might, a very small percentage of the time, be falsely accused.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not convicting anyone of criminal charges without significant proof. I'll happily condemn them socially however, if I have been convinced enough that I suspect they are likely to be guilty.

The merit of an innocent until proven guilty system is to reduce the number of false convictions. That the president has benefited from this ideal despite almost certainly being guilty of a wide variety of things, from sexual assault (by his own admission) to tax fraud and beyond, does NOT make him a reasonable champion of the concept, and he should shut the hell up. It's like watching Capone speak to the dangers of jumping to conclusions about organized crime.

[malchior]

This article in the Atlantic echoes my feelings nearly exactly.

Mr. Fed posted it on FB.

Great article. I agree with the author's conclusions, although not entirely with the route that he got there. But the passage I liked best is this one:

Over the weekend, I listened to a number of podcasts in which liberals mocked Kavanaugh as an entitled white male refusing to face accountability for what he had done. I find the tone of these discussions nauseating—undetained by the possibility of error. I, like Jeff Flake, am haunted by doubt, by the certainty of uncertainty and the consequent possibility of injustice. I spent a lot of time this weekend thinking about Oliver Cromwell’s famous letter to the Church of Scotland in which he implored, “I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken.” I also spent some time with Learned Hand’s similar maxim, “The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right.” We all need to think it possible that we may be mistaken; we all need to be not too sure that we are right.

Agree with the gist of the article but quoting Oliver Cromwell? It's a touch tone deaf. I guess he wasn't nauseated by the fact that liberals were mocking Kavavaugh as an entitled white male so much as the idea that someone would mock entitled white males.

Yeah I thought it was tone deaf as well. And agree with your read. Spot on. He also manages to drop some digs about Dem behavior and the 'last minute' drama. He appears to be turning a very partisan blind eye to behavior on the side that wholly controls the process and has been acting in incredibly bad faith since well before the Presidential election.

Are the Dems acting up? Sure. Is it all justified? No but some of it is *very justified* considering that the Republicans were the folks who made the table stakes incredibly high in the first place.

[El Guapo]

This article in the Atlantic echoes my feelings nearly exactly.

Mr. Fed posted it on FB.

Great article. I agree with the author's conclusions, although not entirely with the route that he got there. But the passage I liked best is this one:

Over the weekend, I listened to a number of podcasts in which liberals mocked Kavanaugh as an entitled white male refusing to face accountability for what he had done. I find the tone of these discussions nauseating—undetained by the possibility of error. I, like Jeff Flake, am haunted by doubt, by the certainty of uncertainty and the consequent possibility of injustice. I spent a lot of time this weekend thinking about Oliver Cromwell’s famous letter to the Church of Scotland in which he implored, “I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken.” I also spent some time with Learned Hand’s similar maxim, “The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right.” We all need to think it possible that we may be mistaken; we all need to be not too sure that we are right.

Agree with the gist of the article but quoting Oliver Cromwell? It's a touch tone deaf. I guess he wasn't nauseated by the fact that liberals were mocking Kavavaugh as an entitled white male so much as the idea that someone would mock entitled white males.

I'm not entirely sure I see your point. His point is that a lot of people opposed to Kavanaugh are basically taking it as a given (or are irrationally certain) that the accusations are true. He agrees that the balance of the evidence (at least on the Ford allegations) are in Dr. Ford's favor, but he's cautioning that a little humility is in order, especially when the evidence is necessary old and spotty. And Oliver Cromwell (for better or worse) is a key person in establishing certain principles of liberty in British-American history, and as far as I know he doesn't have a sex abuse scandal.

[malchior]

I'm not entirely sure I see your point. His point is that a lot of people opposed to Kavanaugh are basically taking it as a given (or are irrationally certain) that the accusations are true.

I know the question wasn't aimed at me but my read was there were some very high handed jabs. He doesn't seem to consider that 'his side' is basically taking it as a given that this is all just 'lib' blather and character assassination. He detailed a good analysis that supports his hypothesis but he was incredibly biased (read partisan) throughout the piece about behaviors of people who are not GOP members. He then casts stones at the other side for their behavior. That is at least is my basis for thinking he is tone deaf.

[hitbyambulance]

And Oliver Cromwell (for better or worse) is a key person in establishing certain principles of liberty in British-American history, and as far as I know he doesn't have a sex abuse scandal.

just an 'oppressing and murdering the Irish' scandal

[Kurth]

I'm not entirely sure I see your point. His point is that a lot of people opposed to Kavanaugh are basically taking it as a given (or are irrationally certain) that the accusations are true. He agrees that the balance of the evidence (at least on the Ford allegations) are in Dr. Ford's favor, but he's cautioning that a little humility is in order, especially when the evidence is necessary old and spotty. And Oliver Cromwell (for better or worse) is a key person in establishing certain principles of liberty in British-American history, and as far as I know he doesn't have a sex abuse scandal.

This is really well said.

There's a fundamental problem with the bi-partisan certainty that Kavanaugh is either a privileged, sexually assaulting, gang raping monster or that Kavanaugh is an incredibly accomplished, hardworking jurist who's being victimized by decades old allegations with little corroboration.

I don't know how anyone can be certain of either of these conclusions.

[Kurth]

Apologies for the double post, but WTF?

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell announced Tuesday that the supplemental FBI report on Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh will not be made publicly available.

“We will get an FBI report soon. It will be made available to each senator and only senators will be allowed to look at it. That’s the way these reports are always handled. These background checks from the FBI to the Judiciary Committee. And we will be voting this week," McConnell said.

Not that anything he does surprises me anymore, but this is crazy. They're going to have to produce something.

[El Guapo]

And Oliver Cromwell (for better or worse) is a key person in establishing certain principles of liberty in British-American history, and as far as I know he doesn't have a sex abuse scandal.

just an 'oppressing and murdering the Irish' scandal

As far as I know Kavanaugh has not yet been accused of oppressing and murdering the Irish. Maybe that will come out next week.