Kickstarter and other crowdfunding platforms

MonkeyFinger · Post by **MonkeyFinger** » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:53 am

Well... after not quite two years my "Early Bird Investigator" pledge for Deep Madness arrived this morning, yet another giant box 'o stuff from Kickstarter to wade through tonight. Base game, four expansions, extra figures (one of which I'll need to assemble), extra dice packs, two "epic" monsters and a hardbound art book. Good thing the wife is out of town!

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:16 pm

Mine arrived yesterday as well! Quality seems pretty good overall. The minis are a little smaller than I was expecting but the quality it right up there with some of the best in the industry. Honestly I don’t mind them being a little smaller as it means the board will look less cluttered.

I don’t know if you follow any of the game groups but impressions are generally solid as well. Most seem to agree that:

The game is hard.
The game is fun.
Printing on the tiles is a little too dark. (this I agree with although it’s not as bad as I expected based on the number of comments.)
The game nails its setting and atmosphere perfectly.

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:25 pm

So if anyone does want Deep Madness their second printing KS opened today. They have revealed that retailers won’t be carrying the game so this is the only chance to get it.

I played a couple rounds of it this weekend. Three times solo to learn the rules and once with a group (two wins two losses). The game is very hard, chances are you are not going to win the first time you try a scenario but victory is attainable.
Gameplay leans heavy on Mansions of Madness but the monsters are much more diverse in tactics. Each monster has a very basic AI system consisting of moving, attacking, and specials. The specials may be as simple as doing more damage, or might spawn mobs, or even teleport to player characters. It works pretty well.

Monster spawns seem a bit excessive. You might spawn as many as 10 monsters in a single phase of the game. Most of the time fighting is not encouraged but if you don’t fight at all you will lose.

Devoured token effects seem superfluous and fiddly. This was actually a change requested by backers in the first KS and I think it would have been better without. I probably won’t use them again.

I have no idea why anyone would use the optional Epic monsters. I tried adding one into one of my solo runs and lost by round 3. The game is already hard; adding something to make it harder doesn’t make any sense to me.

Everyone that played had fun and the scenario came down to the wire so quite intense.

I do recommend the game but have to throw in the caveat that some parts feel like it could have used just a little more polish. I could also see the difficulty being a turn off for some.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:30 pm

I remember looking into the first game, but read so many complaints that it wasn't well tested or that there were design-related issues. I backed this version because (it sounded like) they fixed what was wrong with the first game. I don't mind difficult and I love the art/style, so it seems like it's a worthwhile investment.

Dark Venture: An Adventure Card Game hit my radar this morning and it's another one that looks interesting.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:48 pm

I received shipping notice on Burning Suns. It's a space 4x with a long struggle of being caught up in Czech production hell. I'll be glad to get it after playing two very fin sessions at GenCon. The saga ends for me when I get my copy on Friday.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:47 am

Didn't you back that in 2003 or something?

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:02 am

2013 Kickstarter that I backed late in 2016 after playing twice at Origins when it was supposed to ship soon from factory. Emil's struggle as a solo developer getting burnt using an unreliable manufacturer has been epic. Lots of updates on "they need to fix the prototypes" and "they lied to me again." Still, it's the print-once type of game that Kickstarter was made to help.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:14 am

Was he a first time developer? I can certainly understand those many issues if he is/was. I can't even begin to imagine the hurdles someone new to game development has to clear in order to get a game produced and shipped. John Crowder of Small Box Games just joined up with Kolossal Games a little while back as he was getting sick and tired of all the production side crap.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:24 am

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:14 am Was he a first time developer? I can certainly understand those many issues if he is/was. I can't even begin to imagine the hurdles someone new to game development has to clear in order to get a game produced and shipped. John Crowder of Small Box Games just joined up with Kolossal Games a little while back as he was getting sick and tired of all the production side crap.

I'm still holding out hope for those n00bs guys an Ninth Haven Games...

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:35 am

First time designer with big dreams.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:45 am

Sigh...and my copies of the new editions of Greenland and Neanderthal still haven't shipped. Apparently since I ordered a game board add on, they had to order new packaging...which they're STILL waiting on. It's been sitting there since 10/2 without any movement due to this. If anyone sees a project that is using Floship as their shipper, be wary.

To add insult to injury, there are already at least 3 game affecting errors on the cards in both games. I love Eklund games, but since they've partnered up with Ion Games, their quality is going down.

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:05 am

coopasonic wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:24 am
hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:14 am Was he a first time developer? I can certainly understand those many issues if he is/was. I can't even begin to imagine the hurdles someone new to game development has to clear in order to get a game produced and shipped. John Crowder of Small Box Games just joined up with Kolossal Games a little while back as he was getting sick and tired of all the production side crap.
I'm still holding out hope for those n00bs guys an Ninth Haven Games...

Yeah...me too.

Pretty sure we are shipping this year but it is coming down to the wire. Producing anything at the end of the year is stressful because you get bumped for bigger companies increasing their stock for Christmas.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:43 am

When's the dreaded Chinese New Year that apparently brings the entire country to a halt for like a month?

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:49 am

Chinese New Year happens in February. The only way that will impact us at this point is if the entire factory burns to the ground between now and the end of the year and we have to start over on production...Let's hope that doesn't happen.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:31 pm

Lordnine wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:05 am
coopasonic wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:24 am
hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:14 am Was he a first time developer? I can certainly understand those many issues if he is/was. I can't even begin to imagine the hurdles someone new to game development has to clear in order to get a game produced and shipped. John Crowder of Small Box Games just joined up with Kolossal Games a little while back as he was getting sick and tired of all the production side crap.
I'm still holding out hope for those n00bs guys an Ninth Haven Games...
Yeah...me too.

Pretty sure we are shipping this year but it is coming down to the wire. Producing anything at the end of the year is stressful because you get bumped for bigger companies increasing their stock for Christmas.

I was going to say if you want to send me a copy to play at BGG.CON I'd be happy to give you my shipping address, but I guess it is a little late to garner more attention for the kickstarter.

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:02 pm

coopasonic wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:31 pm
Lordnine wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:05 am
coopasonic wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:24 am
hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:14 am Was he a first time developer? I can certainly understand those many issues if he is/was. I can't even begin to imagine the hurdles someone new to game development has to clear in order to get a game produced and shipped. John Crowder of Small Box Games just joined up with Kolossal Games a little while back as he was getting sick and tired of all the production side crap.
I'm still holding out hope for those n00bs guys an Ninth Haven Games...
Yeah...me too.

Pretty sure we are shipping this year but it is coming down to the wire. Producing anything at the end of the year is stressful because you get bumped for bigger companies increasing their stock for Christmas.
I was going to say if you want to send me a copy to play at BGG.CON I'd be happy to give you my shipping address, but I guess it is a little late to garner more attention for the kickstarter.

Yeah, I looked at having some copies air mailed over but it is really cost prohibitive. About $300 for 5 copies. At this point most copies from this production run are already claimed anyways. There will be about 200 left over to sell. Basically it comes down to how well it reviews and then a second KS print run next year is likely. I am hopeful because most people who play it enjoy it.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:32 pm

Looks like the rest of my Apocrypha pledge is shipping now. Supposed to have it by Thursday. I'll give it a try with the updated rulebook, but I still don't think that will save it. It's just not very fun.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:45 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:32 pm Looks like the rest of my Apocrypha pledge is shipping now. Supposed to have it by Thursday. I'll give it a try with the updated rulebook, but I still don't think that will save it. It's just not very fun.

I just got my shipping notice as well. I paid $107 for the kickstarter... never played it and sold it for $65.

$42 isn't my most expensive kickstarter mistake.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:39 am

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:32 pm Looks like the rest of my Apocrypha pledge is shipping now. Supposed to have it by Thursday. I'll give it a try with the updated rulebook, but I still don't think that will save it. It's just not very fun.

Isn't this just the second expansion? There should be one more after this one. Unless I'm misremembering.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:47 am

No, it's one shipment with two "chapters" or whatever they've called them. "The Flesh" and "The Devil" - it's all that remains of the project as pitched.

The new rulebook (40 page PDF) has been out in the wild now for ~3 days and people are already starting to find errors, clarity issues and typos. It's been 3.5 years since the project launched and the core game manual still isn't print-ready. How is that possible?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:49 am

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:47 am No, it's one shipment with two "chapters" or whatever they've called them. "The Flesh" and "The Devil" - it's all that remains of the project as pitched.

The new rulebook (40 page PDF) has been out in the wild now for ~3 days and people are already starting to find errors, clarity issues and typos. It's been 3.5 years since the project launched and the core game manual still isn't print-ready. How is that possible?

What he said. I played a demo at Gencon right after I got the core box. I had already played it once at home, but wanted to see if I was doing anything wrong as I was surprised at just how boring/simple the game was. I finished the demo and realized my initial impressions were correct. When one of the game designers came around after the demo, he handed out promo cards. Then he offered to sign them for people. When he got around to me, I simply told him, "Nah, I'm good...thanks" and walked off.

In other news: Eklund's kickstarter for new editions of Neanderthal and Greenland is officially a disaster. Quite a few packages are still sitting in a warehouse in Hong Kong a month after shipping labels were sent, and the list of dumb errors on cards and other game components is growing by the hour. We're talking cards with instructions to perform an action during the wrong phases, cards pointing you towards a power that doesn't exist in the rulebook or anywhere else, etc.. These games are not light, so it effectively makes the games an exercise in patience as you try to keep an errata open so you can refer to it whenever a card shows up. I pity the poor bastard who goes into this without such knowledge beforehand. They'll probably end up hurling their copy out the window.

At this point, I have to say I won't be backing any more Sierra Madre Games. Which is a shame, as I was a huge Eklund fan up until now. But between multiple editions of the same game(s) within short periods of time, the laughably bad quality control and the sheer sloppiness of how this has been handled, I'm out. I can't recommend his games to anyone at this point either.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:49 am

Hmmm... then either there are 2 more expansions coming, or the last one will be BIG. As I recall, there are 9 chapters total. The core box came with 3. So after this one there will be 4 still unaccounted for.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:51 am

hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:49 am No, it's both expansions. It should complete my pledge.

Ah. Yup. Finally took a moment to actually read the email.

Your shipment contains the following items:
1x Apocrypha - 2nd Wave Promo Cards (Set of 4)
1x Apocrypha: Hybrid Mission Pack
1x Apocrypha: The Devil Expansion
1x Apocrypha: The Flesh Expansion

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:09 am

I remember playing that demo of Apocrypha. It looked decent but the gameplay was so flat. It's not a good sign when hepcat slides his chair back after a game and holds out his hands to say, "Well, I'm done with that."

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:47 pm

And the two expansions were just dropped off. Now I have to decide whether or not to give it another try and see if the updated rules/new material helps, or if I should just put it straight onto ebay without opening the expansions.

Decisions, decisions.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:50 pm

I've had the same thoughts, quite frankly. I was going to somehow get a new copy of the rules and give the core set a try before committing to opening the expansion boxes, but I suspect any decision (if you hope to recover money) will need to be made rather quickly. Call it a hunch.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:06 pm

Just signed on late for Everdell, an animal worker placement, and Welcome To, the flip and write. Both can play well with the family and the Chicago crew.

Also put in a board game table reservation. Went for 3.25 x 6 play area and delivery in January.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:12 pm

And you requested the "Erotic Nights of Pooh" inlay I suggested for the table, right?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:14 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:12 pm And you requested the "Fifty Shades of Pooh" inlay I suggested for the table, right?

FTFY.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:18 pm

Must...resist...urge...to continue this. It could go...so wrong.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:26 pm

Kama Poohtra?

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:29 pm

Zarathud wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:06 pm Also put in a board game table reservation. Went for 3.25 x 6 play area and delivery in January.

Which company? I'm pretty sure that I'm never going to get a board game table -- too little space in the apartment -- but a guy can dream.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:44 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:26 pm Kama Poohtra?

Bravo!

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:50 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:44 pm
Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:26 pm Kama Poohtra?
Bravo!

Did you catch EmmanuOwl on Disney After Dark?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:56 pm

You're incorrigible...INCORRIGIBLE I SAY!

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:58 pm

AWS260 wrote:Which company? I'm pretty sure that I'm never going to get a board game table -- too little space in the apartment -- but a guy can dream.

BoardGameTables.com

They looked great at GenCon. Wanted a bit more, nicer and faster than the Jasper.

My wife got the kitchen of her dreams, I get the space in the basement as long as the kids have a couch down there too. I suspect they'll use the covered top for homework.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:02 pm

Zarathud wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:58 pm My wife got the kitchen of her dreams, I get the crawlspace.

what you really meant to write...

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:29 pm

If there's room for my computer and board games, I'll take it.

Fishbelly · Post by **Fishbelly** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:42 pm

Zarathud wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:58 pm
BoardGameTables.com

They looked great at GenCon. Wanted a bit more, nicer and faster than the Jasper.

My wife got the kitchen of her dreams, I get the space in the basement as long as the kids have a couch down there too. I suspect they'll use the covered top for homework.

I recently did the same thing. My wife got her kitchen and I got a gameroom and table from BoardGameTables.

Pricey, but we love it. My wife was never a big board gamer, but it has convinced her play a lot more games with me, so totally worth it.

Chrisoc13 · Post by **Chrisoc13** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:05 pm

I'm also in for welcome to...

And I'm backing bios origins second edition.