The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

[LordMortis]

Trump's statement didn't bother me. It was the right non statement of possible condemnation to make.

Have you actually seen it or just read. I saw the clip on John Oliver. It is way, way worse than any text does justice.

I'm talking about the statement earlier in this thread in video on the last page for which the negativity began

http://octopusoverlords.com/forum/viewt ... 1#p2606031

This didn't bother me, though I wasn't fooled in to thinking he would actually follow through with "an answer" that maintained that sort of personal detachment attempting to gain understanding before acting for the good of the press, for the good of being humanitarian, and US standing on what used to be a sort of high ground balanced with the reality of the complex realities of diplomacy and global commerce.

Conducting US diplomacy as family business, actually seemingly advocating for Saudi, while going in the too typical Trump mode of concurrent self and auto/plutocrat/oligarch/dictator ego stroking? That's strikes one, two, and three.

[stessier]

Yeah, that's the video. I'm really surprised that didn't bother you.

[malchior]

It is beginning to look like the Saudi's guessed correctly. They shrewdly guessed that our amoral President was "their" type of guy. Trump uses slim doubt as a complete smokescreen for despicable behavior and I guess we will see soon if we'll let him do that.

[Holman]

It's really too bad that Trump's tax returns are still under audit.

IRS, though. What are ya gonna do?

[LordMortis]

It is beginning to look like the Saudi's guessed correctly. They shrewdly guessed that our amoral President was "their" type of guy. Trump uses slim doubt as a complete smokescreen for despicable behavior and I guess we will see soon if we'll let him do that.

Guessed when? Like I said, I was fine with the initial response but sending in this guy to "do your research" and then to report back It's OK, he's says he didn't do it.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ap-us-t ... its-2017-5

[malchior]

It is beginning to look like the Saudi's guessed correctly. They shrewdly guessed that our amoral President was "their" type of guy. Trump uses slim doubt as a complete smokescreen for despicable behavior and I guess we will see soon if we'll let him do that.

Guessed when? Like I said, I was fine with the initial response but sending in this guy to "do your research" and then to report back It's OK, he's says he didn't do it.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ap-us-t ... its-2017-5

When? When they decided to kill Khashoggi. I'll say it again - I don't believe they would have done that with any previous administration in power in the modern era.

[LordMortis]

It is beginning to look like the Saudi's guessed correctly. They shrewdly guessed that our amoral President was "their" type of guy. Trump uses slim doubt as a complete smokescreen for despicable behavior and I guess we will see soon if we'll let him do that.

Guessed when? Like I said, I was fine with the initial response but sending in this guy to "do your research" and then to report back It's OK, he's says he didn't do it.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ap-us-t ... its-2017-5

When? When they decided to kill Khashoggi. I'll say it again - I don't believe they would have done that with any previous administration in power in the modern era.

Sending Kushner suggests it may not have been a guess. That's the optics of this presidency and every time it is faced with an opportunity to demonstrate optics aren't necessarily in alignment with reality, we get every reason to doubt the legitimacy of our own governance.

Trump had a chance to show the right American face. To be Canada, quite frankly, when it comes to human rights. He started out the gate in the right direction, IMO, and then immediately pissed all over it by turning human fucking rights in to a Trump business dealing.

[Holman]

I guess this is... sort of... a face-saving admission.

"The prisoner suffered a heart attack during our kidnap attempt. So sorry. Of course we dismembered him out of respect."

The fix is probably in. Presumably the Saudis are giving Turkey something nice for their trouble (and their evidence), and I imagine a sheik or two is suddenly in the market for Trump real estate.

[LawBeefaroni]

The fix is probably in. Presumably the Saudis are giving Turkey something nice for their trouble (and their evidence), and I imagine a sheik or two is suddenly in the market for Trump real estate.

Mar a Largo memberships up 20%!

[LordMortis]

I guess this is... sort of... a face-saving admission.

"The prisoner suffered a heart attack during our kidnap attempt. So sorry. Of course we dismembered him out of respect."

The fix is probably in. Presumably the Saudis are giving Turkey something nice for their trouble (and their evidence), and I imagine a sheik or two is suddenly in the market for Trump real estate.

Now how does that reconcile with "they deny it every way you can imagine." With one interview and a set of meetings by family, we went from "Wow, you have a chance of handling this the way you should" to "There is no way for me to see you coming out of this in a light that isn't embellished by Halloween theatrics glossing over actual horror."

[malchior]

Edit: FWIW - the NY Times appears to have removed the line from the article as it is printed online now. You can even see a comment asking why the line was included but the mention is now gone. FFS NY Times. What a dumpster fire.

[LordMortis]

What a dumpster fire.

I think it was my third read before I saw this as dumpster fire and not drumpster fire.

[Max Peck]

So, Daniel, tell us what you really think of Trump...

The Trump Three-Step:
1) Read perfunctory conventional statement from TelePrompTer
2) Express unhappiness about being forced to be scriptedly “nice,” start revealing true thoughts
3) Abandon any pretense of nice, tweet or blurt true thoughts

Upon further review, this is more like the third step in a four- or five-step process. Still lots of time for him to say the words “false flag.”

[Alefroth]

So, Daniel, tell us what you really think of Trump...

He must have an unlisted address.

[Pyperkub]

A certain bot forgot to be updated. It's supposed to be gatoing stopthebias. Walkaway never got traction.

...and the polls are projecting Hillary by a landslide. Don't kid yourself, I see a couple #WalkAway videos being posted on facebook every single day. Only one of those posters spoke with a Russian accent so far, but she was HOT! Maybe it should be changed to #RunDon'tWalkAway

#walkaway.... with $150k!

woman identifying herself as “Reformed Republican” posted a photo of herself in a “Make America Great Again” hat and announced she refused to hide any longer. The way the story ended, however, was not the way Republicans would have hoped.

“I will not hide any longer,, [sic] the left has made us feel as if us black republicans [sic] should hide!! but not anymore!! #BlacksForTrump #WalkAway #maga”...

...She posted a GoFundMe link to a since-deleted request for help. She raised over $150,000 off of conservative donors. Once she was finally outed, she explained that it wasn’t stealing because Republicans aren’t people, to begin with.

I've long felt that if I could check my morals at the door, there's a shit-ton of money to be made telling conservatives what they want to hear.

[LawBeefaroni]

Ads are news. News is fake. Got it.





FWIW, Fox News, and others, also pulled the ad.




(Aside, what's with the apple icon/emoji in the CNN post? What don't I know now?)

[ImLawBoy]

(Aside, what's with the apple icon/emoji in the CNN post? What don't I know now?)

That's their "An apple is an apple" thing, meaning that they're reporting real facts (or something like that).

[Isgrimnur]

[LawBeefaroni]

Uh, ok, that's...cute? I'll just be happy with that.

[Holman]

Is there a "Four Lights" emoji?

[LordMortis]

Facts first at CNN, when did that happen? My memory is misleading clickbait headline first, data intensive self playing ads second, tangentially related fact third. So much so, when I notice I'm about to click on a CNN piece, I usually try and second source it and read somewhere else instead. Hate hate hate their online presence and I can't remember the last time I turned them on via TV.

[coopasonic]

Fox News says (said?) Fair and Balanced. I assume it's sarcastic.

[$iljanus]

It's the apple from the Tree of Knowledge offered by Satan. Makes sense since CNN is the tool of the Devil.

[GreenGoo]

I guess it's not apples vs. oranges? While I realize it's a PR campaign and thus worthy of public commentary, I just don't care what catch phrases, buzz words, quips, jingles or memes any of these companies run. I get that you need to tap into the national psyche to get positive response, but man.

Do. Not. Care.

[Holman]

I'm not a fan of CNN's style and can't remember the last time I watched it when I had a choice, but they are the president's chief "FAKE NEWS" boogeyman, and thus they have been targeted for violence several times.

[YellowKing]

I generally go to CNN first to enjoy their Trump bashing, then head over to CBS News for the neutral old person's take on it.

[pr0ner]

In a sign that things are still spiraling out of control for members of the media on both sides, people associated with Smash Racism DC (whose Twitter account is now suspended) showed up at Tucker Carlson's house, ranting and raving and scaring his wife (Tucker was not home), and a man making death threats towards Don Lemon was arrested Tuesday.

Yesterday evening, about 20 people showed up in front of Fox News host Tucker Carlson's home. A video posted to Twitter by the group Smash Racism D.C., which has since been suspended from the platform, revealed what the protesters were saying.

"Tucker Carlson, we are outside your home," said one person with a bullhorn, according to The Washington Post. "We want you to know, we know where you sleep at night." The other protesters reiterated the point, chanting: "Tucker Carlson, we will fight! We know where you sleep at night!"

In a since-deleted Facebook post, Smash Racism D.C. had an ominous warning for the conservative TV host: "Each night you remind us that we are not safe. Tonight, we remind you that you are not safe either."

...

Meanwhile, an Arkansas man was arrested Tuesday for allegedly making death threats against CNN anchor Don Lemon. According to a press release from the Baxter County Sheriff's Office, 39-year-old Benjamin Craig Matthews has been charged with "terroristic threatening" (five counts in the first degree, four in the second) and harassing communications (nine counts).

Also, here's Matt Yglesias with another tone deaf take on things:



Oh, the ratio.

[Holman]

I'm seeing essentially unanimous rejection of this mob action by pundits and journalists and everyone else I follow. Aside from a few randos, the only caveat I see being offered is that Carlson himself is guilty of doxing opponents (with the addition that this still doesn't excuse bad behavior against his family).

[noxiousdog]

There's no excuse for that behavior and Matthew Yglasias is an ass for putting that in writing.

[GreenGoo]

There's no excuse for that behavior and Matthew Yglasias is an ass for putting that in writing.

I agree but can we also agree that if you spend your day antagonizing 1/2 the country then they're gonna be antagonized and we shouldn't be surprised by it? Especially if we're married to the fool?

Everyone else is has to stay civil but the drunken idiot at the bar gets to be an obnoxious asshole without having to hear about how obnoxious an asshole he's being because his wife lives there too?

[noxiousdog]

There's no excuse for that behavior and Matthew Yglasias is an ass for putting that in writing.

I agree but can we also agree that if you spend your day antagonizing 1/2 the country then they're gonna be antagonized and we shouldn't be surprised by it? Especially if we're married to the fool?

Everyone else is has to stay civil but the drunken idiot at the bar gets to be an obnoxious asshole without having to hear about how obnoxious an asshole he's being?

I think protesters on your front lawn takes it a bit far. Those situations can get out of hand in a hurry.

[GreenGoo]

I think protesters on your front lawn takes it a bit far. Those situations can get out of hand in a hurry.

I agree.

That said, I'd wonder why the hell people are on my front lawn, and maybe a closer look at what I'm doing that has them showing up on my lawn as opposed to other peoples' front lawn.

If you decide that these are a group of like-minded crackpots, fine. If you don't bother to listen to what they have to say or look at your own actions and re-affirm you're doing what you believe is right and move directly to crack-pots, then ignore crack-pots are your peril, I guess.

But to reiterate, I agree. Find another way to reach the man, if you feel the need.

[noxiousdog]

I think protesters on your front lawn takes it a bit far. Those situations can get out of hand in a hurry.

I agree.

That said, I'd wonder why the hell people are on my front lawn, and maybe a closer look at what I'm doing that has them showing up on my lawn as opposed to other peoples' front lawn.

If you decide that these are a group of like-minded crackpots, fine. If you don't bother to listen to what they have to say or look at your own actions and re-affirm you're doing what you believe is right and move directly to crack-pots, then ignore crack-pots are your peril, I guess.

But to reiterate, I agree. Find another way to reach the man, if you feel the need.

I'd be fine with them protesting at the Fox studios, for example.

[LawBeefaroni]

I think protesters on your front lawn takes it a bit far. Those situations can get out of hand in a hurry.

I agree.

That said, I'd wonder why the hell people are on my front lawn, and maybe a closer look at what I'm doing that has them showing up on my lawn as opposed to other peoples' front lawn.

If you decide that these are a group of like-minded crackpots, fine. If you don't bother to listen to what they have to say or look at your own actions and re-affirm you're doing what you believe is right and move directly to crack-pots, then ignore crack-pots are your peril, I guess.

But to reiterate, I agree. Find another way to reach the man, if you feel the need.

I'd be fine with them protesting at the Fox studios, for example.

At the very, very least, wait until he's at home.

[GreenGoo]

I'd be fine with them protesting at the Fox studios, for example.

Absolutely, but we're seeing that protests and protestors are being moved farther and farther to the side, out of the way where they can't bother anyone. Out of sight, out of mind. Free speech zones, using your national news voice or tweet account to malign them for the fact that they are protesting with no attempt to address the details of the protest itself. Limited news coverage of what they are protesting, only covering the protestors themselves.

If the goal is to be heard, that's getting harder and harder to do. That's why Cruz has his dinner interrupted. That's is why McConnell has his dinner interrupted. That's why Sessions is shouted at outside his church.

I'm not saying I condone it. Far from it. But I'm sympathetic to any group that feels marginalized (outside of hate groups, naturally) with no way to be heard. What are they supposed to do? March around outside a building that houses hundreds of employees and armed security guards while the target of their protest gets in his car in the underground parking lot and drives away, never once hearing them or even noticing they exist, except as fodder for his next baiting session?

[Remus West]

I'd be fine with them protesting at the Fox studios, for example.

Absolutely, but we're seeing that protests and protestors are being moved farther and farther to the side, out of the way where they can't bother anyone. Out of sight, out of mind. Free speech zones, using your national news voice or tweet account to malign them for the fact that they are protesting with no attempt to address the details of the protest itself. Limited news coverage of what they are protesting, only covering the protestors themselves.

If the goal is to be heard, that's getting harder and harder to do. That's why Cruz has his dinner interrupted. That's is why McConnell has his dinner interrupted. That's why Sessions is shouted at outside his church.

I'm not saying I condone it. Far from it. But I'm sympathetic to any group that feels marginalized (outside of hate groups, naturally) with no way to be heard. What are they supposed to do? March around outside a building that houses hundreds of employees and armed security guards while the target of their protest gets in his car in the underground parking lot and drives away, never once hearing them or even noticing they exist, except as fodder for his next baiting session?

I get what you're saying but I don't like it because it blurs that line between group protest and hate group. Don't kid yourself into thinking there are not a lot of those protesters that HATE Hannity and his cohorts. The protests at people's homes need to stop. I do not blame his wife for being afraid. I blame her for not leaving him but thats another issue entirely.

[GreenGoo]

I get what you're saying but I don't like it because it blurs that line between group protest and hate group. Don't kid yourself into thinking there are not a lot of those protesters that HATE Hannity and his cohorts. The protests at people's homes need to stop.

Come on. Hate groups aren't groups that hate.

The protests at people's homes need to stop.

Hey, don't look at me. It's your right to free speech and peaceful assembly that's the issue here. Unless you mean it's rude, in which case they're only following the role model in the white house.

In any case, I agree. Stay away from peoples' homes.

[RunningMn9]

See, I think that what the protestors did was bullshit. I also think that what Tucker Carlson does has predictable consequences. Like, people shouldn’t be showing up at his house, scaring the shit out of his wife. But Tucker Carlson is a miserable and hateful piece of shit on the air. I feel like a shitty outcome like this is inevitable when you are a miserable and hateful piece of shit on the air.

Punish these protesters, but I’m not even a little bit shocked that his on air behavior had consequences.

[GreenGoo]

Punish these protesters

Wait. Did they do something illegal? I assumed they stayed on public property. If they were stupid enough to go onto private property and not leave when told to leave, then yeah, punish away.

Or did you mean some other form of punishment besides legal?

edit: I see that what they said might be considered a threat. It most certainly would be in Canada. (Un?)fortunately in America it has to be considered an actual, literal threat of physical harm that a reasonable person would perceive as one. You might think that it is a no brainer, but it's clear to me that your court system does not fuck around when it comes to free speech, and that means that it's very possible that this would not be considered an actual threat, given tons of near similar cases.

If charges are filed and they sue, it should be interesting if nothing else. Your freedom of Speech cases are almost always interesting.

edit: Their facebook post seems far more legitimate a threat than their behaviour at his house. Not sure who goes to jail for that. Whoever posted it, I assume.

Note: I am not defending their actions. It was moronic and they need to find better ways of expressing themselves, and they need to re-evaluate if they really want to go around threatening people with physical harm. If that's what they want, then reap the whirlwind of your actions, dildos.

[Combustible Lemur]

So, while I empathize with his family. I find I don't give a shit about him, or really the protesters.
As a teacher I have to be concious of my public behavior, speech, and image both at work and to a much lesser degree in public. And I'm not in a particularly conservative area. The ability for any particular member of the public to, on any given day, decide to fuck up my life should I either cross a line or appear to cross a line is profound. Tucker Carlson goes on television on a daily basis and instigates pressure for legislation that fucks people over financially, socially, culturally. Fuck that guy.
Civility is a delicate balance and he pokes that bear daily. The damage that politicians do and pundits can do has real world consequences. The idea that they shouldn't be inconvenienced outside of work is a priviledge based on a fostered culture. I feel they reap what they sow.
My wife's family went from preparing to retire to destitute and moving into my home because rich mother fuckers in Washington convinced rural poor people that medicaid wasn't in their personal interest, and that liberals were just trying to kill grandma. I think people making you feel uncomfortable at dinner and in your home isn't a shocking result.


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk