The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

[El Guapo]

Of all the potential hoists, via his own petard would be the most satisfying.

Thank goodness Trump doesn't actually have the "best people".

Honestly I think the biggest reason for hope is that Trump's opponents, by and large, are a smarter and more talented group than Trump's allies. Though they have to fight with one hand behind their backs, on account of caring about this like "laws" and "decency".

[GreenGoo]

Sure, but "laws" and "decency" are what will sink Drumpf and friends eventually. Ignoring those is not not having 1 hand tied behind your back. If they cared about laws and decency they would be untouchable, and that's what should scare people about drumpf's norms destroying. The next power hungry monster in the white house won't be a moron.

[El Guapo]

Sure, but "laws" and "decency" are what will sink Drumpf and friends eventually. Ignoring those is not not having 1 hand tied behind your back. If they cared about laws and decency they would be untouchable, and that's what should scare people about drumpf's norms destroying. The next power hungry monster in the white house won't be a moron.

Oh, I totally agree. I'm not saying that they should disregard laws and decency and all that - that would be catastrophic. I'm just saying that not caring about honesty and being shameless are advantages in a fight, and that those (along with the raw power of the office of the Presidency) are assets that the Trump administration has in a fight in the short term.

[hepcat]

If Mueller really did play Manafort in an effort to get Trump to screw himself, I will refer to Mueller as Keyser Soze from this point forward.

...I will still refer to Trump as El Doofus McIdiot though.

[GreenGoo]

Oh, I totally agree. I'm not saying that they should disregard laws and decency and all that - that would be catastrophic. I'm just saying that not caring about honesty and being shameless are advantages in a fight, and that those (along with the raw power of the office of the Presidency) are assets that the Trump administration has in a fight in the short term.

Perhaps, but when the fight can only be won if the other side doesn't care about decency and the law, it's not really an advantage. I mean, if drumpf kept to the letter of the law law and kept a modicum of decency, what could his opponents actually do? Win on the merits of their arguments?

The only way to defeat a law abiding president is in the court of public opinion. The only reason the citizenry can be safely (potentially) ignored is because the rule of law doesn't rely on public opinion. If drumpf never stepped outside of the rule of law, well, let's just say that his climate change gibberish doesn't seem to be hurting him too much. That and other gibberish is what got him elected in the first place (i.e. won the war for public opinion).

That's all I'm saying.

[GreenGoo]

If Mueller really did play Manafort in an effort to get Trump to screw himself

That is more than I could have hoped for. In retrospect, I am well aware that there are plenty of people smarter than me, and I'm very glad that Mueller is one of them.

[Remus West]

If drumpf never stepped outside of the rule of law, well, let's just say that his climate change gibberish doesn't seem to be hurting him too much. That and other gibberish is what got him elected in the first place (i.e. won the war for public opinion).

To me that is the very saddest part of this entire debacle. I do hold to the solid loss of the popular vote as slim hope though. tRump won the electoral process NOT the public opinion. I pray.

[Isgrimnur]

Newsweek

Outgoing GOP Senator Jeff Flake voted against advancing a controversial Trump judicial nominee, as previously promised, after Senate Republicans again blocked a bipartisan measure to protect special counsel Robert Mueller from being fired.

The procedural vote for Thomas Farr, which passed by a vote of 51-50 after Vice President Mike Pence broke the tie, will allow the Senate later this week to officially vote on whether or not to confirm the nominee for the Eastern District of North Carolina. Farr has been vehemently opposed by Democrats for his past work helping North Carolina Republicans institute voter suppression measures.

Flake’s vote against advancing Farr came after GOP Senator Mike Lee blocked an attempt by Flake and Democratic Senators Chris Coons and Cory Booker to force a vote on a Mueller protection bill. GOP Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has refused to hold such a vote since the bill passed the Judiciary Committee in April. The bill received the support of both Democrats and Republicans on the committee.

[Carpet_pissr]

If Mueller really did play Manafort in an effort to get Trump to screw himself, I will refer to Mueller as Keyser Soze from this point forward.

...I will still refer to Trump as El Doofus McIdiot though.

Whaaaa....wait a minute.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the theory du jour is that Manafort sacrificed himself to be a mole in the investigation for Trump. That actually makes a little sense, because of the normal trash talking that spews out of Trump's mouth when someone flips on him, or is even perceived to be "unfriendly" (journos asking tough questions, etc). We saw no trashing of Manafort by Trump, and vice versa. I thought it was a bit odd at the time, considering what Manafort was supposedly doing.

So Mannie let's his mole role play out, offers false info to the Feds, then divulges info to Trump's legal team, THEN decides to back out of the agreement. Why would Manny do that to himself, you ask? P-A-R-D-O-N.

Are you saying that Mueller KNEW about the molemanship, let it happen, to COUNTERspy on Trump, i.e. using Manny as an unwitting mole for the investigation?!

If so,
1. BRILLIANT!
and
2. my God, this book, then movie, then Netflix original series, is going to be amazing when it's all out.

That really is too much to hope for, so I am going to pretend it's not the case until something patently obvious comes out that it is.

[gilraen]

So Mannie let's his mole role play out, offers false info to the Feds, then divulges info to Trump's legal team, THEN decides to back out of the agreement. Why would Manny do that to himself, you ask? P-A-R-D-O-N.

If that's the case, then either Manafort is an idiot or his lawyers are. In both the DC and Virginia trials, Manafort has admitted to all the facts in each case. So even if Manafort is pardoned at the federal level, he will be immediately indicted at the state level for the exact same tax fraud, money laundering, etc. charges that he has ALREADY admitted to as part of the plea agreement.

[malchior]

LOL! Good luck with that.



Here is a classic from his crack expert. Or is that an expert on crack? Not sure.

[Pyperkub]

If Mueller really did play Manafort in an effort to get Trump to screw himself, I will refer to Mueller as Keyser Soze from this point forward.

...I will still refer to Trump as El Doofus McIdiot though.

Whaaaa....wait a minute.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the theory du jour is that Manafort sacrificed himself to be a mole in the investigation for Trump. That actually makes a little sense, because of the normal trash talking that spews out of Trump's mouth when someone flips on him, or is even perceived to be "unfriendly" (journos asking tough questions, etc). We saw no trashing of Manafort by Trump, and vice versa. I thought it was a bit odd at the time, considering what Manafort was supposedly doing.

So Mannie let's his mole role play out, offers false info to the Feds, then divulges info to Trump's legal team, THEN decides to back out of the agreement. Why would Manny do that to himself, you ask? P-A-R-D-O-N.

Are you saying that Mueller KNEW about the molemanship, let it happen, to COUNTERspy on Trump, i.e. using Manny as an unwitting mole for the investigation?!

If so,
1. BRILLIANT!
and
2. my God, this book, then movie, then Netflix original series, is going to be amazing when it's all out.

That really is too much to hope for, so I am going to pretend it's not the case until something patently obvious comes out that it is.

Not "counterspy", but allow Trump to think he could get away with (Mueller-known) lies in his written answers, should Trump choose to lie in those answers.

[El Guapo]

So Mannie let's his mole role play out, offers false info to the Feds, then divulges info to Trump's legal team, THEN decides to back out of the agreement. Why would Manny do that to himself, you ask? P-A-R-D-O-N.

If that's the case, then either Manafort is an idiot or his lawyers are. In both the DC and Virginia trials, Manafort has admitted to all the facts in each case. So even if Manafort is pardoned at the federal level, he will be immediately indicted at the state level for the exact same tax fraud, money laundering, etc. charges that he has ALREADY admitted to as part of the plea agreement.

To be clear, Manafort hasn't backed out of the plea agreement. It's Mueller who is basically blowing it up (though they get to keep the guilty pleas), on account of all the lying.

[hepcat]

I think you mean "alternative facts".

[LordMortis]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... PjmMs94lMs

President Donald Trump left open the possibility of pardoning his former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, in an interview with The New York Post on Wednesday, telling the publication that the option is "not off the table."

"It was never discussed, but I wouldn't take it off the table," Trump told The Post. "Why would I take it off the table?"

At least there is no mention of firing Mueller?

"If you told the truth, you go to jail," Trump said, adding that he does not know Corsi.

And his hatred for government getting people to rat continues...

"You know, this flipping stuff is terrible," Trump said. "You flip and you lie and you get — the prosecutors will tell you 99 percent of the time they can get people to flip. It's rare that they can't."

[GungHo]

So are manafort's lawyers in potential trouble here as well? Were they not discussing stuff I'm assuming is covered by attorney client privilege with the president which seems dis-barable(un-barable? Dis-un-imbarable??) to layman such as myself. Of course the other side is that manafort waived his privilege in specific cases to talk to drumpfus which sounds a lot like the president trying to obstruct justice. Nay even conspiracy to commit obstruction would possible be more politically damaging as we'd finally have our smoking gun of collusion that had been the prez's claim to fame of 'nothing to see here...THERE WAS NO COLLISION!'

Or am I playing 'Go Fish' while the legal eagles are playing 4 dimensional GO? Still, sitting here behind by cards, something does smell fishy...

But I'm with you guys if Mueller really pulled this kind of a move off on trump....well I can at least guarantee some fireworks in east Texas!

Willl be very interested to see how this plays out

[Captain Caveman]

Specifically, Cohen is copping to lying about Trump business dealings with Russia. He's already given Mueller 70 hours of testimony.

[Holman]

Oh, hey. Michael Cohen is entering a new guilty plea, this time for lying to congress about Russia contacts.

One fun bit: despite earlier denials, he now says he was still in contact with Moscow businessmen (read: oligarchs) about a Trump deal as late as August 2017. (His testimony was in October that year, so who knows what dealing has continued since?)

EDIT: I'm sure I read the above dates in some coverage, but now I can't find it. Striking for accuracy.

Also fun: he has given Mueller 70 hours of interviews and does not expect a Trump pardon.

[Captain Caveman]

[Captain Caveman]

Guess Mueller had evidence that his earlier testimony was a lie. Wonder too if there's more explosive content on the tapes Cohen recorded of Trump.

I wonder, too, about the timing. This all comes shortly after Trump submitted his answers. Perhaps he denied business dealings with Russia.

[GreenGoo]

And the thumb screws tighten (on everyone involved).

[Max Peck]

Guess Mueller had evidence that his earlier testimony was a lie. Wonder too if there's more explosive content on the tapes Cohen recorded of Trump.

I wonder, too, about the timing. This all comes shortly after Trump submitted his answers. Perhaps he denied business dealings with Russia.

It also comes shortly after the mid-term elections. As I understand it, it was expected that Mueller was not going to make any waves during the lead-up to the elections so as to avoid influencing the outcome, and would be putting things back in motion shortly thereafter.

If only he had done a better job in mentoring Comey on the importance of that one particular tradition.

[Holman]

It also comes just before Trump is set to meet Putin at the G20. (I seem to recall that Rosenstein announced indictments of Russian intelligence officers just before Helsinki.)

Incidentally, Moscow has authoritatively stated that Trump and Putin will have a two-hour private meeting at the conference. There has been no mention of this from the WH, but who wants to bet against it happening?

[Octavious]

You have to be a special kind of person to sell out on an entire country to build a f'n hotel. I'm actually starting to get optimistic that something might come of this investigation. I think he will panic and just start firing people left and right. Or he could just keep on getting away with it.

[Paingod]

I think he will panic and just start firing people left and right.

Hasn't he been doing that for two years?

[Holman]

One cool thing about the new Cohen plea is that it shows Mueller is going after people for lying to Congress.

Don Jr, Erik Prince, Roger Stone, and the whole crew of them have done a *lot* of lying to Congress.

[malchior]

Press reports are saying that Trump *surprised everyone* and went off on Cohen on his way out of the WH today calling him a liar several times and weak.

[Smoove_B]

Totally unrelated, right?

One hundred seventy officers searched the headquarters of Deutsche Bank in Frankfurt and five other sites in the area early Thursday as part of a money-laundering investigation involving hundreds of millions of euros, prosecutors in Frankfurt said.

Two employees, who were not publicly identified but whose ages were given as 50 and 46, and other “unidentified people in positions of authority” are suspected of failing to report possible money laundering for transactions worth 311 million euros, or more than $350 million.

The money flowed to organizations in the British Virgin Islands before spring 2016, prosecutors said in an emailed statement.

Can't wait to see who's on the list:

In April 2016, news organizations in cooperation with the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists released the Panama Papers, which revealed how some of the world’s wealthiest individuals, including more than 900 customers of Deutsche Bank, dodged taxes in their home countries by transferring money to offshore accounts.

Prosecutors said the documents indicated “that Deutsche Bank helped customers found offshore organizations in tax havens by transferring illegally acquired money without alerting authorities to suspected money laundering.”

Or do we need to wait?

[Jaymann]

Press reports are saying that Trump *surprised everyone* and went off on Cohen on his way out of the WH today calling him a liar several times and weak.

Too much pressha.

[Octavious]

I think he will panic and just start firing people left and right.

Hasn't he been doing that for two years?

Well I meant Mueller. I mean hell he's gotten away with everything else he's done so it might just work out for him.

[malchior]

Finally a tweet to source the President's comments! Lying to reduce your sentence by admitting you got caught lying!?! Lie-ception at its best.

[Smoove_B]

Finally a tweet to source the President's comments! Lying to reduce your sentence by admitting you got caught lying!?! Lie-ception at its best.

I like seeing him actually say it. The walls are closing in...

[YellowKing]

I love how a man who blatantly lies several times a day wants us to believe him when he says it's the other guy that's not telling the truth.

Trump is like one of those door knockers in Labyrinth that always lies and the other always tells the truth, and you have to figure out what question to ask to determine which is which. Except we already know which is which and Trump doesn't understand that we've already solved the riddle.

[Max Peck]

Except we already know which is which and Trump doesn't understand that we've already solved the riddle.

Strictly speaking, roughly 50% of you have figured it out, 40% have an unshakable belief that the 50% are wrong and 10% can't be bothered to get a clue.

[Max Peck]

On a less trollish note...

Document: Michael Cohen Plea Documents in Mueller Probe

The Associate Press reports that on Thursday morning, former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen pleaded guilty in the Southern District of New York to making false statements to Congress related to his involvement in real estate deals in Russia on behalf of Donald Trump. At the hearing, Cohen's lawyer told the judge that his client was entering a plea agreement with Special Counsel Robert Mueller. The criminal information describing Cohen's conduct and the plea agreement he reached with prosecutors are below. Lawfare will post any additional documents as they become available.

[Holman]

It also comes just before Trump is set to meet Putin at the G20. (I seem to recall that Rosenstein announced indictments of Russian intelligence officers just before Helsinki.)

Incidentally, Moscow has authoritatively stated that Trump and Putin will have a two-hour private meeting at the conference. There has been no mention of this from the WH, but who wants to bet against it happening?

And now Trump has canceled the meeting... about an hour after stating publicly that it was "a very good time to have a meeting."

[Holman]

Man, the hits keeps coming today.



The Feds just showed up and closed down the office of a Chicago Alderman whose law firm has represented Trump's businesses for 12 years.

Could be merely coincidental Chicago-level corruption, but there are claims going around that this is Trump's tax attorney.

[Smoove_B]

[malchior]

It also comes just before Trump is set to meet Putin at the G20. (I seem to recall that Rosenstein announced indictments of Russian intelligence officers just before Helsinki.)

Incidentally, Moscow has authoritatively stated that Trump and Putin will have a two-hour private meeting at the conference. There has been no mention of this from the WH, but who wants to bet against it happening?

And now Trump has canceled the meeting... about an hour after stating publicly that it was "a very good time to have a meeting."

The bullshit meter is off the scales. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the Manafort, Cohen, or the raids.

[LawBeefaroni]

And the thumb screws tighten (on everyone involved).

Ed Burke. Good riddance.




Not exactly related to Mueller but rumors it's for the tax "mitigation" work Burke and co did for Trump Tower.