The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:19 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:24 pm Looking like the Russian spy has now flipped.

Federal prosecutors and defense attorneys may have reached a plea deal in the criminal case against gun rights activist and alleged Russian agent Maria Butina.

In a joint filing Monday, the parties asked the federal district court judge overseeing the case to set a plea hearing at the court’s earliest convenience.

“The parties have resolved this matter, and the Defendant Maria Butina remains in custody,” they wrote.

The parties asked for the plea hearing to be held on either Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday of this week.
Having this shitstorm potentially splatter all over the NRA is just icing on the cake.

It's possible that her aversion to Polonium means that she will simply plead guilty without actually cooperating. Still bad for the NRA, but not the tell-all we would like.

[EDIT: I suppose it's possible that exposing NRA and GOP collusion serves the mission at this stage. Putin's goal has always been to corrupt and and sow distrust of democracy.]

Meanwhile, let's remember that Trump just *happened* to call on Butina in an audience of hundreds at something called FreedomFest in 2015. She asks a question about sanctions, and he very pointedly declares that he likes Putin and that there is no need for sanctions (1:48).

Link to video.

He goes on for quite a while, actually. It almost feels like he was ready with these points about Russia, ya know?

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:08 pm

This is about Paul Erikson, the 50-something conservative consultant with NRA ties whom the 20-something Butina pretty clearly caught in a Honeypot. She then used his connections to make Russian inroads.

These must be the world's stupidest traitors.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:21 am

Holman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:08 pmThese must be the world's stupidest traitors.

Maybe. Maybe it catches up with them. I don't really have faith that it will do much until the Republicans lose both houses and the Presidency. I don't see that happening with the construction of the Senate. So........

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:08 am

Remus West wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:21 am
Holman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:08 pmThese must be the world's stupidest traitors.
Maybe. Maybe it catches up with them. I don't really have faith that it will do much until the Republicans lose both houses and the Presidency. I don't see that happening with the construction of the Senate. So........

Republicans will turn on Trump before they go down with his ship. It's human nature to put one's own interests first, and at some point their fortunes will diverge from Trump's. If/when we reach that turning point, they will turn on a dime.

Today I read that the incoming D leadership tossed out the "I" word. A couple of Republican senators gave noncommittal "we shall see" reactions. CNN told me (fwiw...CNN says a lot of things) that Trump believes impeachment is a real possibility.

Maybe justice is possible. It's becoming unavoidably clear that Trump is a felon. Whether he becomes a convicted felon depends on Mueller's endgame and how the public takes it. The senators will do whatever saves their own skins.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:34 am

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:12 am

Drumpf believes a helluva lot of things that aren't true. I think impeachment is one of them.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:24 am

Daily Beast, NBC, and others are now reporting that Butina's deal includes cooperation.

In the coming months, I hope I pass a lot of trucks and Jeeps with scraped-off NRA stickers.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:10 am

44 former Senators (both R and D) pen a "quick being dicks and do your jobs" editorial to WaPo

We are at an inflection point in which the foundational principles of our democracy and our national security interests are at stake, and the rule of law and the ability of our institutions to function freely and independently must be upheld.

Regardless of party affiliation, ideological leanings or geography, as former members of this great body, we urge current and future senators to be steadfast and zealous guardians of our democracy by ensuring that partisanship or self-interest not replace national interest.

While I appreciate the sentiment, wake me when the current Senators give a shit.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:16 am

Holman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:24 amIn the coming months, I hope I pass a lot of trucks and Jeeps with scraped-off NRA stickers.

You won't see many - a few moderates who quit, but the "Conservatives" will stay. These are the folks who've found their outlet for life's frustrations. They have embraced the dark side, and chosen to bury their heads in the lies being told to them instead of thinking for themselves - which has gotten to be too painful.

There's nothing "Conservative" about the GOP anymore. It's a legion of people vomiting hate at the great injustices of life as they perceive them, looking for anything other than themselves to blame for where they are right now. It's not even a "Christian" party - unless being a good Christian means bending over for the devil to get what you want. I don't know how else I can rationalize them lining up behind a petty, narcissistic, lying, adulterous, filthy degenerate like we have running the country.

If anything, you'll see them doubling down in denial.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:01 am

Holman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:24 am Daily Beast, NBC, and others are now reporting that Butina's deal includes cooperation.

In the coming months, I hope I pass a lot of trucks and Jeeps with scraped-off NRA stickers.

Doubtful IMO, Russian influence on the hearts and minds was already a news cycle a year ago in all the social media hubub and the conservative/NRA response was why would we look a gift horse in the mouth? They were just providing resources for us to follow the path we were already on.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:51 am

Paingod wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:16 amThere's nothing "Conservative" about the GOP anymore. It's a legion of people vomiting hate at the great injustices of life as they perceive them, looking for anything other than themselves to blame for where they are right now. It's not even a "Christian" party - unless being a good Christian means bending over for the devil to get what you want. I don't know how else I can rationalize them lining up behind a petty, narcissistic, lying, adulterous, filthy degenerate like we have running the country.

You have to separate their base from the GOP. The GOP is a pro-Corporate cabal basically that identified a population that they can influence to achieve their goals. They are well-funded by Corporate interests who had a plan to take over power. Newt Gingrich kicked off the effort followed by Karl Rove who took a first stab at building what he openly talked about as a *permanent majority* openly for awhile last decade. That didn't pan out because their "stable" (was) is generally made up of the cast of incompetents and criminals we saw in the Bush II presidency.

I think what then happened is the Republicans looked at what happened and drew up a new strategy. They realized that the road to power came by further pressing on the imbalance between the rural and coastal states. They had an effective propaganda arm (Fox News) and a burgeoning legislative effort (ALEC). Combine that with strategy support from Conservative think tanks and they happened upon an effective road map built on several pillars:

* take over state and national 'lower houses' via gerrymandering
* establish control over the Senate by exploiting the small state/big state divide to re-make the judiciary
* suppress the vote to aid with above
* undermine the Democratic union power base at the state level by rolling out 'right to work' initiatives
* obstruct Dem agendas whenever in a position to do so and then press on them for being ineffective
* consolidate power whenever possible (see NC, WI, and MI)
* use the press as a megaphone to repeat talking points
* control the flow of funding for campaigns (so-so results here at present)

To tie together this they had social issues like abortion, healthcare, and a huge dollop of racism woven all throughout to capture the base you describe above. This is by design - not to say they didn't luck into some of it but this didn't happen by accident.

If anything, you'll see them doubling down in denial.

Correct - they have been duped. It is hard to admit you have been duped by your own tribe. Plus, they are generally less educated, economically stressed, which increases their susceptibility to more manipulation.

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:52 am

LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:01 am
Holman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:24 am Daily Beast, NBC, and others are now reporting that Butina's deal includes cooperation.

In the coming months, I hope I pass a lot of trucks and Jeeps with scraped-off NRA stickers.
Doubtful IMO, Russian influence on the hearts and minds was already a news cycle a year ago in all the social media hubub and the conservative/NRA response was why would we look a gift horse in the mouth? They were just providing resources for us to follow the path we were already on.

+1

I don’t even know that those NRA stickers really even stand for any serious commitment to that particular organization half the time. I think that more often than not, the people with those stickers (along with the ever present “OREGUNIAN” stickers I see out here all the time) are putting them on their cars as mechanisms to self-identify with their chosen tribe. And particular issues with the NRA or any one of their specific tribal identifiers aren’t going to shake them from their tribal affiliations.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:06 pm

Paingod wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:16 am These are the folks who've found their outlet for life's frustrations. They have embraced the dark side, and chosen to bury their heads in the lies being told to them instead of thinking for themselves - which has gotten to be too painful.

There's nothing "Conservative" about the GOP anymore. It's a legion of people vomiting hate at the great injustices of life as they perceive them, looking for anything other than themselves to blame for where they are right now.

QFT

And Kurth's post above is bang on as well I think. It's not so much showing love for guns or the NRA as it is a cultural badge.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:09 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:51 amYou have to separate their base from the GOP.

I don't know if I can do that. I see distinct heads on the beast, and a multitude of broken forms lumped together to make the body. They work in concert as a single entity, though each part could leave at any time.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:16 pm

Paingod wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:09 pm
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:51 amYou have to separate their base from the GOP.
I don't know if I can do that. I see distinct heads on the beast, and a multitude of broken forms lumped together to make the body. They work in concert as a single entity, though each part could leave at any time.

I get that belief but the GOP creates so many of the issues they care about. And when the issues come from outside they just absorb them. As an example, when the tea party rose up it looked like a serious problem for the GOP. Instead, over time they just brought those people in piece by piece digesting them until they were mostly gone. Today those same people are banging on the drum about the success of the tax cuts that gave the very same banks huge payouts *again* at our expense.

Edit: Look at what happened to Ammon Bundy as another example. Fresh off acquital after the Malheur incident he criticizes Trump to only find that his support had been co-opted by the larger #MAGA movement.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:36 pm

Kurth wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:52 am
LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:01 am
Holman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:24 am Daily Beast, NBC, and others are now reporting that Butina's deal includes cooperation.

In the coming months, I hope I pass a lot of trucks and Jeeps with scraped-off NRA stickers.
Doubtful IMO, Russian influence on the hearts and minds was already a news cycle a year ago in all the social media hubub and the conservative/NRA response was why would we look a gift horse in the mouth? They were just providing resources for us to follow the path we were already on.
+1

I don’t even know that those NRA stickers really even stand for any serious commitment to that particular organization half the time. I think that more often than not, the people with those stickers (along with the ever present “OREGUNIAN” stickers I see out here all the time) are putting them on their cars as mechanisms to self-identify with their chosen tribe. And particular issues with the NRA or any one of their specific tribal identifiers aren’t going to shake them from their tribal affiliations.

I'm not an NRA member and that used to be met with, "What are you, a gay commie?" type of response from the more ardent gun enthusiasts. Now there's far more, "well, I get your issues with how they handle some things but no one else is looking out for 2A like them..." It's a huge change in some quarters. Still largely ignorant but much less so than before. Almost guarded. Not everyone, but a lot.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:05 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:10 am 44 former Senators (both R and D) pen a "quick being dicks and do your jobs" editorial to WaPo

We are at an inflection point in which the foundational principles of our democracy and our national security interests are at stake, and the rule of law and the ability of our institutions to function freely and independently must be upheld.

Regardless of party affiliation, ideological leanings or geography, as former members of this great body, we urge current and future senators to be steadfast and zealous guardians of our democracy by ensuring that partisanship or self-interest not replace national interest.
While I appreciate the sentiment, wake me when the current Senators give a shit.

I wish they had named the threat more specifically. Trumpsters can read that as warning against impeachment.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:09 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:05 pm
I wish they had named the threat more specifically. Trumpsters can read that as warning against impeachment.

As well as "the freedom caucus" who see themselves as the Elect and only real representatives of "the founding principles"at least until they disagree with each other or they can gather power or money for ignoring such principles.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:27 pm

GOP shrugs at Trump's involvement in Cohen crimes

Of course they do.

Sen. Orrin Hatch, the retiring Utah Republican and most-senior GOP senator, strongly dismissed the federal government's allegations that Trump committed two crimes by directing Cohen to make the hush money payments.

Asked if he had any concerns that Trump was implicated, Hatch told CNN: "The Democrats will do anything to hurt this President." Informed it was alleged by federal prosecutors in New York, Hatch said: "OK, but I don't care, all I can say is he's doing a good job as President."

I wish they'd investigate the entire GOP..hell Dems too. Find stuff on all they can, prove it, have them turn on each other like the animals they are, and put them all away. Disgusting Government full of corruption and idiots.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:00 pm

"OK, but I don't care, all I can say is he's doing a good job as President."

Because being a nation of laws is only important when it is a speech to rally supporters. Because the market is only important if it's doing poorly under your adversary. Because not shutting the government down is only important if you feel like it's a good chip for your to play. Because moral turpitude is only a problem if you can make it look a problem on the other side. Otherwise it's just a word from Porky's. Because the mark of a good president is a gas lighting international jet setter forging personal disposable global business bridges masking himself as a nationalist changing the normal of the presidency for the worst by testing boundaries of being wicked like a two year old discovering they have a self. How long do I go on? Go retire your family pharmaceutical spoils already.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:07 pm

I don't think he masks the fact that he's a nationalist. He embraces it.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:37 pm

LM is saying that he's not actually a nationalist. That it's a mask he wears while generating his personal wealth globally.

That's what my LM to English translator claims anyway.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:00 pm

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:37 pm LM is saying that he's not actually a nationalist. That it's a mask he wears while generating his personal wealth globally.

That's what my LM to English translator claims anyway.

Its working fine then. Glad that last upgrade took.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:31 pm

Salon ties together the Butina story into an comprehensive narrative detailing the coordination between Russia and the Trump campaign using the NRA as a conduit. I believe that the GOP is going to protect Trump but I can't believe it in a way considering the damning story that is emerging. The collusion is looking like it is provable now. It was definitely illegal on the part of the people involved and it was directed from inside the President's campaign. Plus it was linked to actual FSB agents. This should make a nation tremble but I wonder if anything actually will happen.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:06 pm

Without a powerful enemy to focus on the American people have turned on themselves. Liberals are scarier than Russians now. If it takes a little Russian interference to gain/stay in power, it's better than a democrat.

There are literally signs to this effect held at drumpf rallies. It's nuts.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:07 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:31 pm Salon ties together the Butina story into an comprehensive narrative detailing the coordination between Russia and the Trump campaign using the NRA as a conduit. I believe that the GOP is going to protect Trump but I can't believe it in a way considering the damning story that is emerging. The collusion is looking like it is provable now. It was definitely illegal on the part of the people involved and it was directed from inside the President's campaign. Plus it was linked to actual FSB agents. This should make a nation tremble but I wonder if anything actually will happen.

Trump and a mass of his voters and the GOP that court them have convinced themselves that it's not collusion because they were going to vote for him anyway. The only way it's collusion (to them) is if you can prove voter fraud, which I personally don't think happened. Now, if Hillary had won with a a paper trail of her known associates working with the FSB and Russian Oligarchs on the US shitlist while she was making business deals in Russia and the Russian mafia were taking advantage of her hospitality business with crazy inflated rates while they independently attacked social media with false narratives and I dunno, NOW? was show to have a hand it, that would be a totally different story.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:12 pm

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:06 pm Without a powerful enemy to focus on the American people have turned on themselves. Liberals are scarier than Russians now. If it takes a little Russian interference to gain/stay in power, it's better than a democrat.

The next wave of spy movies are going to be confusing. Agents infiltrating Berkeley? A liberal plot to build a gay bomb? Stopping an evil plan to smuggle all the guns out of the country?

gilraen · Post by **gilraen** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:21 pm

Cohen sentenced to 3 years:

Former Trump attorney Michael Cohen was sentenced Wednesday to three years in federal prison, followed by three years of supervised release, during a sentencing hearing in federal court in Manhattan in which Cohen claimed he acted out of "blind loyalty" to President Trump. The judge declared he will serve time for a "smorgasbord" of fraudulent crimes.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:24 pm

Kinda like sentencing a child over what the adult tells them to do. Well except Trump isn't an adult.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:26 pm

Cohen is no child.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:30 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:12 pm
GreenGoo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:06 pm Without a powerful enemy to focus on the American people have turned on themselves. Liberals are scarier than Russians now. If it takes a little Russian interference to gain/stay in power, it's better than a democrat.
The next wave of spy movies are going to be confusing. Agents infiltrating Berkeley? A liberal plot to build a gay bomb? Stopping an evil plan to smuggle all the guns out of the country?

That absolutely would be the case if "Liberal Hollywood" wasn't in charge of movie making in your country. I have no doubt about it. It's not like many movies coming out of Hollywood aren't "conservatives are bad" themed. If I were a conservative I would probably be offended by the characterization. Unfortunately far too many "conservatives are bad" movies are accurate, except that it only applies to certain conservatives, not all conservatives. As we saw with Hillary's "Deplorables" comment. You can't criticize certain members of a group without the entire group taking offense. It's not really possible.

Some comedies *do* attack certain aspects of Liberalism. PC culture is an easy target. Tree huggers. Hippies. Helicopter parenting (which I always associate with Liberalism, whether that's valid or not). The ability to laugh at yourself is something that many conservatives lack, and that's a shame.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:31 pm

Unagi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:26 pm Cohen is no child.

Cohen is a full blown co-conspirator in drumpf's machinations. He was his right hand man for years. He deserves more time, so I hope the plea deal is worth it for the prosecution.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:34 pm

Yeah, I'd scream for a whole lot more than 3 years but if he opened the door for a much larger investigation then I'm willing to accept him being a rat, quite unlike some criminal heads of law enforcement using their celebrity and authority to publicly influence our justice system and proclaim that being a rat should be illegal and as should trying to bad actors to become rats concurrent with statements like the CiC should bypass Congress to deploy the US military in the US to build an $4 Billion installation that is almost built anyway.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:43 pm

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:31 pm
Unagi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:26 pm Cohen is no child.
Cohen is a full blown co-conspirator in drumpf's machinations. He was his right hand man for years. He deserves more time, so I hope the plea deal is worth it for the prosecution.

I'm not sure if Daehawk was saying: "This is cruel, this is like punishing a child" (how I took it)
or: "That's Nothing, he deserves more - that's as if he was just a child."

In any case, I will third that I hope they (we) got something more out of this, cause the man deserves a good deal more time.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:17 pm

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:31 pm
Unagi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:26 pm Cohen is no child.
Cohen is a full blown co-conspirator in drumpf's machinations. He was his right hand man for years. He deserves more time, so I hope the plea deal is worth it for the prosecution.

AMI (National Enquirer) also admitting it bought off the Playmate in concert with to aid the campaign:

As a part of the agreement, AMI admitted that it made the $150,000 payment in concert with a candidate’s presidential campaign, and in order to ensure that the woman did not publicize damaging allegations about the candidate before the 2016 presidential election,” prosecutors said. They added that AMI is cooperating with their investigation.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:24 pm

malchior wrote: This should make a nation tremble but I wonder if anything actually will happen.

It will happen. All the partisanship in the world hasn't stopped the flood of indictments and guilty pleas coming out of this administration. And we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg.

Until Trump can stop a free press, something he has been unable to do, then people like him will be held accountable. Maybe not as quickly as we would like, but they'll be held accountable.

GungHo · Post by **GungHo** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:38 pm

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:17 pm
AMI (National Enquirer) also admitting it bought off the Playmate in concert with to aid the campaign:

As a part of the agreement, AMI admitted that it made the $150,000 payment in concert with a candidate’s presidential campaign, and in order to ensure that the woman did not publicize damaging allegations about the candidate before the 2016 presidential election,” prosecutors said. They added that AMI is cooperating with their investigation.

I feel like this is a really big deal. Maybe something that is haunting the trump family for a decade after deadbeat Don is in the ground. Here's hoping anyway.

The more this investigation goes on the more it feels like the movie 'The Firm'. Ultimately tom cruise gets the bad guy law firm on mail fraud. The FBI was after something sexier but they had to take what they could get. And on review the 'what they could get' ended up being pretty huge.
Hopefully that's where we are anyway bc if I'm in a Tom Cruise movie I want it to be top gun.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:40 pm

At this point I don't think this is nearly enough to make any impact at all. Hell there was already someone this week that said he didn't care if he did this or not.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:41 pm

GungHo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:38 pm
Pyperkub wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:17 pm
AMI (National Enquirer) also admitting it bought off the Playmate in concert with to aid the campaign:

As a part of the agreement, AMI admitted that it made the $150,000 payment in concert with a candidate’s presidential campaign, and in order to ensure that the woman did not publicize damaging allegations about the candidate before the 2016 presidential election,” prosecutors said. They added that AMI is cooperating with their investigation.

I feel like this is a really big deal. Maybe something that is haunting the trump family for a decade after deadbeat Don is in the ground. Here's hoping anyway.

The more this investigation goes on the more it feels like the movie 'The Firm'. Ultimately tom cruise gets the bad guy law firm on mail fraud. The FBI was after something sexier but they had to take what they could get. And on review the 'what they could get' ended up being pretty huge.
Hopefully that's where we are anyway bc if I'm in a Tom Cruise movie I want it to be top gun.

Trump has also lied multiple times about this payoff. Now there are multiple witnesses stating that it was done with the knowledge of the campaign, to illegally influence the election (so it's not just Cohen vs. Trump, he said/she said) - he may also have lied in writing to Mueller about the payoffs too...

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:50 pm

Octavious wrote:At this point I don't think this is nearly enough to make any impact at all. Hell there was already someone this week that said he didn't care if he did this or not.

They're going to continue to say that until the proof comes in, because most of them are complicit in it. There will be a turning point in which the evidence is so overwhelming and so damning that they have no recourse. These are politicians. They will do anything to save their own hides, and we haven't yet put them in a position where they're forced to do so.