Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:27 am

LordMortis wrote: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:12 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:04 am 1099s go online at TD Ameritrade on Feb 15th. You can just download them then.
Will they accurately reflect December SPY dividends? Scottrade never did until mid march.

Yes. It's the 2018 1099. Ameritrade has always met the deadline for me (it used to be Jan 31).

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:07 am

Well then, that will be one bonus to the migration from Scottrade, then.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:41 pm

NBC News

The Trump administration's $1.5 trillion tax cut package appeared to have no major impact on businesses' capital investment or hiring plans, according to a survey released a year after the biggest overhaul of the tax code in more than 30 years.

milo · Post by **milo** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:46 pm

This is my shocked face.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:53 pm

OTOH, it's likely to wreak havoc on ordinary people's tax refunds. Haven't calculated ours yet, but I strongly suspect that the withholding tables are wrong. Our effective rate last year was 12.6% and they withheld less than 10%. I am steeling myself for a reaming, especially in light of anecdotal reports from friends and relatives.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:00 pm

I talked about this earlier in the thread but I had several conversations with my employer about ADP being way off early last year on withholding. I was assured it was ok. I didn't trust them which paid off. I just did my interim taxes over the weekend. First off, my guess that I'd be boned something about $4-5k was about right on the money (

) and secondly the ADP withholding was way off. I'm pretty pissed off. I made estimated payments and boy am I glad. Everyone has been fucking useless and I expect a lot of my fellow blue staters are going to be in for a surprise. My raise this year *almost* restores me to earning parity before the cut so I guess it could be worse.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:18 pm

I have most of the info I need to do my taxes (save for my busiest investment account). I am curious about the damage, as in terms of raw numbers on my W-2 this year, with 0 exemptions, $15k of extra wages saw a $600 decrease in the amount of taxes taken from my paycheck.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:21 pm

pr0ner wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:18 pm I have most of the info I need to do my taxes (save for my busiest investment account). I am curious about the damage, as in terms of raw numbers on my W-2 this year, with 0 exemptions, $15k of extra wages saw a $600 decrease in the amount of taxes taken from my paycheck.

For me the vast damage is due to the hard $10K cap on local taxes. My property taxes are $14K by themselves. I effectively lost tax deductibility on $4K just there and 100% of everything else including our insane NY/NJ income taxes. We're getting badly burned here. Like you they tried to withhold *less* so I would have been extra boned. Top to bottom this whole tax cut is incompetence all around. I think we may be hearing about surprise tax bills this year.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:26 pm

Yeah, I take it on the chin every year despite my best efforts to anticipate the tax burden. This year? I'm expecting a full-on curb-stomp.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:28 pm

When the tax bills come due, expect the economy and Trump's favorability ratings to plummet. Blue States are going to decimate their remaining Republicans.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:28 pm

malchior wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:21 pm
pr0ner wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:18 pm I have most of the info I need to do my taxes (save for my busiest investment account). I am curious about the damage, as in terms of raw numbers on my W-2 this year, with 0 exemptions, $15k of extra wages saw a $600 decrease in the amount of taxes taken from my paycheck.
For me the vast damage is due to the hard $10K cap on local taxes. My property taxes are $14K by themselves. I effectively lost tax deductibility on $4K just there and 100% of everything else including our insane NY/NJ income taxes. We're getting badly burned here. Like you they tried to withhold *less* so I would have been extra boned. Top to bottom this whole tax cut is incompetence all around. I think we may be hearing about surprise tax bills this year.

I put a lot aside for the inevitable "tax cut" payment I'll have. Pretty sure it's going to be big.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:30 pm

My wife has't gotten her tax form yet because her company sucks. So far with just mine entered we're fine. I expect it explode into a mess when we enter hers as her company is totally incompetent at doing paychecks. One time they accidentally overpaid her by 800 bucks. Which we of course had to return.

I purposely paid extra into state taxes to at least make sure I don't get hosed there. Fingers crossed that I don't owe a couple k.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:37 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:41 pm NBC News

The Trump administration's $1.5 trillion tax cut package appeared to have no major impact on businesses' capital investment or hiring plans, according to a survey released a year after the biggest overhaul of the tax code in more than 30 years.

This result is hardly a shock. The tax cut mostly returned capital to people who were already "saturated" in capital. They ended up pumping money into the market, seeking returns in hedge funds, or passing it through the low tax regime and then returning it overseas. This was a deeply stupid tax cut that enriched folks who didn't need the help at the expense of people struggling in high tax states. But it worked as designed.

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:38 pm

malchior wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:21 pm
pr0ner wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:18 pm I have most of the info I need to do my taxes (save for my busiest investment account). I am curious about the damage, as in terms of raw numbers on my W-2 this year, with 0 exemptions, $15k of extra wages saw a $600 decrease in the amount of taxes taken from my paycheck.
For me the vast damage is due to the hard $10K cap on local taxes. My property taxes are $14K by themselves. I effectively lost tax deductibility on $4K just there and 100% of everything else including our insane NY/NJ income taxes. We're getting badly burned here. Like you they tried to withhold *less* so I would have been extra boned. Top to bottom this whole tax cut is incompetence all around. I think we may be hearing about surprise tax bills this year.

Cant you itemize? Then you get to write off the $14K

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:40 pm

malchior wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:21 pm
pr0ner wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:18 pm I have most of the info I need to do my taxes (save for my busiest investment account). I am curious about the damage, as in terms of raw numbers on my W-2 this year, with 0 exemptions, $15k of extra wages saw a $600 decrease in the amount of taxes taken from my paycheck.
For me the vast damage is due to the hard $10K cap on local taxes. My property taxes are $14K by themselves. I effectively lost tax deductibility on $4K just there and 100% of everything else including our insane NY/NJ income taxes. We're getting badly burned here. Like you they tried to withhold *less* so I would have been extra boned. Top to bottom this whole tax cut is incompetence all around. I think we may be hearing about surprise tax bills this year.

The $10k state tax deduction limit is going to hit me, too. My property taxes aren't nearly as high as yours (thanks, Virginia), but the combination of that and my state income tax payments is over $10k.

I mean, I guess the raw numbers were to be expected when my salary dropped from the 28% bracket to the 24% bracket. But the whole thing is so needlessly annoying.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:40 pm

stimpy wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:38 pm
malchior wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:21 pm
pr0ner wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:18 pm I have most of the info I need to do my taxes (save for my busiest investment account). I am curious about the damage, as in terms of raw numbers on my W-2 this year, with 0 exemptions, $15k of extra wages saw a $600 decrease in the amount of taxes taken from my paycheck.
For me the vast damage is due to the hard $10K cap on local taxes. My property taxes are $14K by themselves. I effectively lost tax deductibility on $4K just there and 100% of everything else including our insane NY/NJ income taxes. We're getting badly burned here. Like you they tried to withhold *less* so I would have been extra boned. Top to bottom this whole tax cut is incompetence all around. I think we may be hearing about surprise tax bills this year.
Cant you itemize? Then you get to write off the $14K

Not anymore. There is a cap on the amount of property and state tax you can deduct (that being $10k).

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:41 pm

stimpy wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:38 pm
malchior wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:21 pm
pr0ner wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:18 pm I have most of the info I need to do my taxes (save for my busiest investment account). I am curious about the damage, as in terms of raw numbers on my W-2 this year, with 0 exemptions, $15k of extra wages saw a $600 decrease in the amount of taxes taken from my paycheck.
For me the vast damage is due to the hard $10K cap on local taxes. My property taxes are $14K by themselves. I effectively lost tax deductibility on $4K just there and 100% of everything else including our insane NY/NJ income taxes. We're getting badly burned here. Like you they tried to withhold *less* so I would have been extra boned. Top to bottom this whole tax cut is incompetence all around. I think we may be hearing about surprise tax bills this year.
Cant you itemize? Then you get to write off the $14K

It is itemized. The crux is right there. They put a 10K cap on it that heavily impacted blue states. The tax code was generally pretty unfair to blue states before reform. Now it is punitive. And they literally said it at the time.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:41 pm

stimpy wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:38 pm
malchior wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:21 pm
pr0ner wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:18 pm I have most of the info I need to do my taxes (save for my busiest investment account). I am curious about the damage, as in terms of raw numbers on my W-2 this year, with 0 exemptions, $15k of extra wages saw a $600 decrease in the amount of taxes taken from my paycheck.
For me the vast damage is due to the hard $10K cap on local taxes. My property taxes are $14K by themselves. I effectively lost tax deductibility on $4K just there and 100% of everything else including our insane NY/NJ income taxes. We're getting badly burned here. Like you they tried to withhold *less* so I would have been extra boned. Top to bottom this whole tax cut is incompetence all around. I think we may be hearing about surprise tax bills this year.
Cant you itemize? Then you get to write off the $14K

He can itemize, but you can only deduct $10k of state and local income/property taxes now. Hard stop. So he gets to deduct $10k of the $14k of property taxes, and NONE of the state income taxes he paid. It was Trump's way of sticking it to the high income blue states.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:41 pm

Lol, 3 people saying the exact same thing at almost the exact same time. Well done.

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:44 pm

Ah......my property tax is under $10K so thats why it kept it when I itemized.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:48 pm

stimpy wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:44 pm Ah......my property tax is under $10K so thats why it kept it when I itemized.

It's property AND state income taxes, though, that's subject to the $10k limit. Which is what really bones the people living in blue states.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:49 pm

Ya there's zero point for me to even try to itemize in my case. I'll never hit the new standard limit anyway. Makes my taxes super easy assuming my wife's company didn't 100% fuck up her paycheck. Which I'm sure they did.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:41 pm

Octavious wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:49 pm Ya there's zero point for me to even try to itemize in my case. I'll never hit the new standard limit anyway. Makes my taxes super easy assuming my wife's company didn't 100% fuck up her paycheck. Which I'm sure they did.

This is where being a corporation might help me. Losing the home office deduction will surely mean that we can't itemize anymore, but I can shift at least some of those expenses to Kraken Enterprises to generate a nice fat K-1 loss. This year's bottom line will determine whether we need to increase Wife's withholding, as I suspect we will. She already filed a new W4 with 0 deductions last year, so the problem is with the withholding tables, not with her status. Gonna have to figure out the "additional withholding" thing and file another W4, I guess. Writing off Curio City's inventory will deliver another juicy K-1 loss for 2019, but after that it will be harder to avoid profits.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:31 pm

Looks like my wife got her W2 in today. My rough calcs have us breaking even unless I'm doing something wrong, but I'll know tonight. I should get a chunk back from the state which I purposely overpaid a bit. Somehow I owed like 600 bucks last year and I wasn't amused.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:31 pm

This is the first year where I have 1099-MISC income to go along with pass through income from my business, plus W2 income for both the wife and I. So I have no idea if the new tax law helped or hurt me. I’m assuming it’s a wash.

It looks like I’ll be cutting a check for a little over $2k. I guess it’s time to start paying estimated taxes.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:22 pm

I can confirm that I did not get screwed by my taxes this year. I owe the feds a little under 200 bucks and I'm getting like 500 something from the state. I think I might adjust the fed a tiny tiny bit just to get it into the green, but that's just about perfect. Not being able to itemize made my taxes take like 10 minutes.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:39 pm

Looks like the corporate giveaway won't pay dividends, just an initial lump sum:

Wall Street has swiftly marked down its hopes for corporate profits because of decelerating economic growth, nagging trade tensions and turbulent oil prices.
Since mid-October, analysts have slashed their estimates of S&P 500 earnings for the first half of 2019 by 4.5%, according to FactSet. That's the sharpest pace of downgrades in four years and nearly twice the 15-year average, FactSet said.

And guess who will end up footing the bill...

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:06 pm

Bloomberg

The U.S. Treasury Department is set to maintain elevated sales of long-term debt to finance the government’s widening budget deficit, with new issuance projected to top $1 trillion for a second-straight year.
...
The fiscal 2018 U.S. budget gap hit a six-year high of about $780 billion, and the Congressional Budget Office forecasts it will reach $973 billion in 2019 and top $1 trillion the next year. Over the next decade, the U.S. government will spend about $7 trillion just to service the nation’s debt, according to the CBO.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:20 pm

People are taking to Twitter in anger, now that they've realized Trump's tax plan wasn't all it's cracked up to be after doing their tax returns. It's pretty amazing to see.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:50 pm

pr0ner wrote: Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:20 pm People are taking to Twitter in anger, now that they've realized Trump's tax plan wasn't all it's cracked up to be after doing their tax returns. It's pretty amazing to see.

This is how to identify those who were not paying attention last year.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:37 pm

pr0ner wrote: Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:20 pm People are taking to Twitter in anger, now that they've realized Trump's tax plan wasn't all it's cracked up to be after doing their tax returns. It's pretty amazing to see.

I just filled out new W-4s for all three of Wife's jobs, which collectively underwithheld around $4,500, as nearly as I can tell. Unless our tax rate really went down by that much, we're going to get boned this year. We shall see.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:45 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:50 pmThis is how to identify those who were not paying attention last year.

It's actually a bit depressing that THIS will be the proverbial straw for some people. However, it also fits the general narrative. Until it directly impacts them individually, who cares? Well, brace for impact - the face eating leopards are coming.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:44 am

So interesting to see the reactions to articles about Trump supporters finding out they're screwed on their tax refunds.

And they still don't realize how bad it will be over time.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:17 pm

Me wrote:

I still haven't received any of my tax docs and won't even do my taxes until the second round of amended tax documents are released from TD Ameritrade in March (if Scottrade was any indicator) but the internet has suggested that as someone in cheap ass and paid off house who takes standard deductions, I should be one of the elect who is not at the top of the food heap. Taking my standard deduction from $6,350 to $12,000. I think, in total my check went up about $2,300 last year due to this "reform". This suggests, that while ally'all may be in for some suck ass times, my typical refund of about $1,000 should be about $4,500 this year. I'll believe it when I see it.

Reality said nope. Somehow my standard deduction of $6,350 merged with other stuff to $10,400 last year. Probably Property Taxes and State of Michigan sales taxes.

So the great big tax cut amounted to $1600, which I saw more than in my pay increase, so my refund evaporated (at least I don't owe).

If I was the dream case for getting a tax break and doubling my deduction amounted $1600 real dollars, I can only imagine... Just about everyone else.

There are going to be pissed off Republican voters in Michigan who will somehow blame this on the incoming House for this. I can't speak for how standard deductions were bumped in other states.

Also I am so glad "over" I withhold. I'da been pissed if I'd owe more money.

Edit. The $1600 didn't feel right because deductions don't mean so much, so I did percentage instead

in 2017 I paid 15.992% of my income to federal taxes (in addition to all the payroll taxes paid to the federal government) In 2018, I paid 0.15193% of my income to federal taxes, or I got to keep an extra .8 cents for ever dollar I made, considerably less than the $1600 I thought I was up.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:33 pm

At least widespread recognition is dawning that the middle class was duped.

Amazon made an $11B profit last year and is receiving a $127M refund.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:54 pm

Massive incentives to spend on machinery and amortizable business investments. It's a goddamn corporate give-away to forestall an economic downturn and buy loyalty.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:20 am

My wife just did our taxes. We've got a slightly weird situation. We own a house in NH, where there's no income tax, but relatively high property taxes. We both work in MA (because there's no jobs in our lines of work that pay worth a damn in NH), but we both have a regular schedule of working at the office part of the week, and from home the other days. That means we get to apportion our income between MA and NH. That takes the sting out of paying both higher income and property taxes.

This year, it wound up that our federal refund went down by more than half. That's with owning a house, having two kids, and both of us having 0 exemptions on our payroll taxes. That's way better than owing money, but still not the big big raise the GOP promised. The state refund wound up being three times more than federal, and basically in line with what we got from state last year.

It'll be hilarious and awful to watch when, in a few years the Dems inevitably try to roll these "tax cuts" back, and the GOP will try to argue that no, really, they've been great for "real Americans."

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:05 am

Chaz wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:20 am This year, it wound up that our federal refund went down by more than half. That's with owning a house, having two kids, and both of us having 0 exemptions on our payroll taxes. That's way better than owing money, but still not the big big raise the GOP promised. The state refund wound up being three times more than federal, and basically in line with what we got from state last year.

What was the difference in federal income taxes withheld from your paychecks between 2017 and 2018? That's where the "big big raise" you might have been expecting came from. As I previously mentioned, my tax withholdings for 2018 went down approx. $570 while my taxable income went up $15k between 2017 and 2018. By my rough math, I paid $6k LESS in withholdings (without changing the exemptions) in 2018 than I would have on that same amount of money in 2017. There's a good chance that's where your "big big raise" was, and you just missed it.

Also, the exemption calculations were allegedly changed to try to make people actually get smaller refunds.

Chaz wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:20 am It'll be hilarious and awful to watch when, in a few years the Dems inevitably try to roll these "tax cuts" back, and the GOP will try to argue that no, really, they've been great for "real Americans."

The tax cuts for the middle class end on January 1, 2026. The Democrats won't have to try to roll them back - they'll roll themselves back, and middle America will get slammed. The GOP House tried to make them permanent last year, but the Senate wouldn't take up the bills.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:42 am

I am under the impression that the worker tax reform expires in 2025 but the corporate tax reform lasts forever. The GOP would say that it is not a rollback but a Tax Increase on the small business owner and that it will cost jobs.

... or what pr0ner said...

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:47 am

LordMortis wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:42 am I am under the impression that the worker tax reform expires in 2025 but the corporate tax reform lasts forever. The GOP would say that it is not a rollback but a Tax Increase on the small business owner and that it will cost jobs.

... or what pr0ner said...

I found this useful for determining what expires when.

TLDR - at least some of the corporate stuff does expire. I don't know everything that was added so don't know how significant these are.