It used to be a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:57 am

I don't keep up with the CW's DC shows, but this promo shot makes them seem both insane and fun:

The Green Arrow actor in the Flash costume! The Flash actor in the Green Arrow costume! The actor who played the Flash in the 1990s show in his 1990s costume!

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:24 pm

They've also been seen recently meeting with the Smallville cast.

And the crossover that all of this is tied in to will introduce Gotham and Batwoman. Oh, and the Anti-Monitor, which has huge implications.

Unfortunately, I'm still trying to get Michelle caught up on the Arrowverse. We're still one season back, so I'll be watching all of this a few weeks late.

Daveman · Post by **Daveman** » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:05 pm

I bailed on Legends this season but have really liked Arrow. Flash has been OK.

sgoldj · Post by **sgoldj** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:12 pm

Over and done for this year’s cross over. Next year seems interesting too. Opinions on the cross over? Opened up some interesting possibilies. All in all, pretty good. Enjoyable but not great.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:05 pm

Michelle is still a year behind, but we're catching up fast. I'm really, really looking forward to being able to watch this season once she's caught up.

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:59 am

Of the three, I thought the Supergirl one was the weakest. Enjoyed the various call backs to theme music from the different shows. Seeing John Wesley Shipp back as the original (albeit much older) Flash was a treat. Wished we could have seen more about Batwoman (but man, that wig. Hope they fix that for the future, because it just looked bad...)

And...

Spoiler:

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:42 am

So, how is Black Lightning faring? I hear almost zero about it...even in this thread.

I stopped about halfway through Season One...mainly due to a move.

sgoldj · Post by **sgoldj** » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:22 pm

Black Lightning is very good IMO. Does not have quite the same crazy-ness that the other shows have, so it is off in it's own little corner of the Multiverse.

I will say again the DC's best move was introducing the Multiverse to the TV shows. Everything can be explained like that (How come the Flash on TV isn't the Flash in Justice League?) John Wesley Shipp as the 1990's Flash (Barry Allen) was a GREAT addition to the mythos. Although it seems there are more than 53 worlds in canon now.

BTW, is there a Counsel of Earth Numberers? How do folks from the Multiverse know they are from Earth-90 instead of Earth-32? Are we Earth Prime or Earth-14??? Is a puzzlement

Lot's of Spoilers and potential story lines laid out between Elseworlds and Legends of Tomorrow this week though. They seem fun to me, as a geeek, to explore.

rittchard · Post by **rittchard** » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:12 pm

I'm generally a Marvel fan, but I've been big on the DC TV series. The way they've been able to run these crossovers so seamlessly and timely is nothing short of amazing to me. I've said this in other places, but as a network TV watcher for over 40 years, it's absolutely unprecedented to coordinate 3 separate series so well. It's not just that they give us an incredibly fun ride, but they always find a way to work in each series' ongoing plotlines into the crossover narrative. And find a way to have the implications carry over. Plus the interplay between the "big" stars is always just sheer fun. I was so excited for next year's Crisis crossover I immediately ordered the comic compilation to get an idea of the base material.

All that said, unfortunately I feel like each of the three series has been a little lackluster this year. Supergirl has been the worst; losing Mon-El and Wynn really hurt the ensemble IMHO, and the villain(s) have been kind of dull. Brainiac is kind of annoying to me, but I suspect he will be important as they move to the Crisis plotline. Flash started OK, but again, the big bad just wasn't very big or bad, and from the getgo I kept getting irritated that they wouldn't let Killer Frost come out to play. Flash's daughter has become more and more irritating, but hopefully it's building up to something interesting.

Arrow, surprisingly, has been my favorite of the three this year, even though the core plotline completely infuriated me carrying over from last year. If you watched any of it, the "big bad" was freaking Alvarez from Oz, with no super powers other than being incredibly annoying. Somehow he lasted the whole freaking season, and they kept making him seem unbeatable. But aside from having a lot of henchman, he had NOTHING going for him. This is where the crossovers become a hindrance. Why on earth would Oliver not call Flash for help on this? The Flash against a bunch of regular human henchmen? Even 10000 henchmen wouldn't be able to do anything. Not to mention if he asked Supergirl for help. But nooooo.... somehow even though the entire city was at risk and they'd run out of all options (except in the end for Oliver to put himself in jail), they don't even mention the idea of getting some help. Now I understand from a narrative standpoint you don't want to keep relying on another series' characters, but the fact is they've done minor crossovers whenever it pleases them, so it's not like they live in a vacuum. Anyway, sorry for the ranting sidetrack, it just drove me nuts. But... it did allow them to put Stephen Amell in jail for half a season, and appear shirtless at least a few extra times. And they used the excuse to turn Felicity "dark" - or at least make us think she is dark. All that and his cute son grows up gay, wheeeee!!!! Did I mention they are doing a flashforward plotline as well? I think that's what's keeping me most entertained.

- - -

Oh yeah, just remembered, is anyone watching the Titans on DC Universe? It's been pretty good from the getgo. Too bad they can't cross them over as well lol.

sgoldj · Post by **sgoldj** » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:36 pm

rittchard wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:12 pm
Arrow, surprisingly, has been my favorite of the three this year, even though the core plotline completely infuriated me carrying over from last year. If you watched any of it, the "big bad" was freaking Alvarez from Oz, with no super powers other than being incredibly annoying. Somehow he lasted the whole freaking season, and they kept making him seem unbeatable. But aside from having a lot of henchman, he had NOTHING going for him. This is where the crossovers become a hindrance. Why on earth would Oliver not call Flash for help on this? The Flash against a bunch of regular human henchmen? Even 10000 henchmen wouldn't be able to do anything. Not to mention if he asked Supergirl for help. But nooooo.... somehow even though the entire city was at risk and they'd run out of all options (except in the end for Oliver to put himself in jail), they don't even mention the idea of getting some help. Now I understand from a narrative standpoint you don't want to keep relying on another series' characters, but the fact is they've done minor crossovers whenever it pleases them, so it's not like they live in a vacuum.

I understand the "why don't we just call....?" issue, but that is a consistent thing in all comic book properties. HISHE made a big deal about it in their "How the Winter Soldier" should have ended parody.

Not seen Titans yet, it is on the list when Young Justice starts back up. I hate having to wait week by week. Young Justice was a big surprise to me when I started watching it back then. I hope they continue that quality.

rittchard · Post by **rittchard** » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:25 pm

I read the foreword on the Crisis reprint volume I just bought, and apparently the entire goal was to simplify the DC universe for newcomers, so they effectively killed off all the other universes or something like that. I haven't read it yet, but I think both Flash and Supergirl die, which is kind of interesting.

I'm wondering if they might similarly end the series by merging the universes into one, which would basically just allow Supergirl to be more accessible and/or allow a "real" Justice League show. That would be pretty cool. I almost prefer they discontinue all (or some) of the individual shows and just have one super team show, as it's getting harder to follow so many shows, and it feels like a lot of the individual stories are running dry. The biggest problem is Arrow, because let's face it, he has the same problem as Hawkeye, he's just not in the same league as the others so it makes it difficult to make him relevant. As a team member (or even leader), though, he could really shine in a new way.

How about a lineup of:

Green Arrow
Supergirl or Superman
Flash
Green Lantern (old Diggle)
Batwoman
Black or White Canary

I'd even put that lineup against The Avengers lol.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:06 pm

Don't forget Black Lightning.

I was given the complete Crisis run - original print run - last Christmas. Hopefully they don't follow it exactly, as one of their major characters dies in that story - and stays dead for more than 20 years, real-world time.

Spoiler:

sgoldj · Post by **sgoldj** » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:10 pm

Spoiler:

rittchard · Post by **rittchard** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:18 pm

Titans (DC Universe) has it's finale this Friday. I've really enjoyed the series in general, but there are some perplexing things. I don't mind that they've taken a "darker" and more violent approach to the characters, that worked out well enough. The core storyline revolves around Raven and Starfire and their mysterious backgrounds and relationship to each other. And of course a lot of introductory/background material for each of the four "main" team members.

The odd thing is that with only an 11 episode season, they spend one full episode on a Hawk and Dove origin story. Then another on introducing Hawk and Dove into the main story. These are cool characters/actors who could potentially have their own series, but unless they are joining the team, I'm not sure why they spend this much time with them. Another episode spends a lot of time with Wonder Girl (Donna Troy). Again, she's a great character and I'd love to see her join the team, but it doesn't seem like that's the intention. All the promos show only the 4 (Robin, Raven, Starfire and Beast Boy). The "team" really only works together in a small part of one episode, and presumably they will in the finale (at least I hope so). It's as if the producers started off with a plan but then didn't think the core 4 were interesting enough or something? I don't know.

Anyway, I'm going to assume there will be at least one more season, and that perhaps in time they will unify all the characters and that there's a plan in place for them to actually function together as a team. With that in mind, it's very enjoyable. Otherwise it's kind of odd.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:55 pm

It also confused me that they gave Hawk & Dove a full episode to themselves (not that I didn't enjoy that episode.)

They are definitely trying to bring together the classic character lineup mixed with their current equivalents. A few haven't been teased in any way, or are in other shows, like Speedy, Aqualad (Kaldur'Ahm, not Garth, please!), Kid Flash, and Cyborg. But Starfire, Raven, Beast Boy, Robin, and Wonder Girl are standards.

I do hope we get to see Dick reveal his new identity and costume in the finale, though!

Spoiler:

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:33 pm

The Hawk and Dove episode was my Karen episode from season 3 of Daredevil. I made it to the 15 minute mark before I just decided to skip it altogether.

While Titans has managed to outdo Batman vs. Superman and Justice League in terms of awfulness, the season finale seems interesting...as long as I remember this isn’t really based on any comic incarnation of the characters, and that they’re just tossing grim crap onto the screen in hopes that Zak Snyder will release the hostages he must have taken in order to get his DC gig.

But thankfully, the animated division is still pumping out great stuff at a pretty steady pace.

rittchard · Post by **rittchard** » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:25 pm

The three WB DC shows are in an odd state, each seeming to be finding odd ways to purposely make their show irritating. Now that the back halves of the shows are beginning, there seems to be hope they are on the way back...

Arrow had it's 150th episode (wow!) and thankfully it was very well done, filled with a lot of guest stars. They cleverly mixed a regular episode during which a documentary crew was filming, with footage from the documentary itself. Because the documentary had supposedly been started years ago, they got to include "old" footage from deceased characters and others. They also had time to introduce (and defeat) a new villain, but most importantly, re-unite Team Arrow (albeit with a rather flimsy excuse that could have easily been used at any point this season). Hopefully they can put behind the inane anti-vigilante nonsense that they used to keep the team apart, and get back to the more enjoyable style from a few seasons back. They've also been seeding a creepy future plotline where Star City is destroyed and Felicity is supposedly dead, which has arguably been the most intriguing part of the show this year. But how does that all fit in with what we are seeing in the present? It's so grim it just doesn't feel like they are going to show the lead up to those events. Or... perhaps they are showing us an alternate reality that will have to get fixed in next year's Crisis crossover?

Flash has been decidedly dull for the most part this season, with a really poor main villain whose main power is that he can use a chintzy object to sap meta-powers. His daughter from the future comes back in time to help him beat him. The problem is this guy is freaking lame. Chris Klein looks like a dumpy dad who has chubbed out on too much beer and does a terrible terrible job of trying to act evil. But the worst part is to make him seem formidable, they somehow make the entire cast look like a bunch of idiots when they don't have their powers. It's like the anti-Arrow. Just as The Flash could have wiped out Arrow's big bad last year without breaking a sweat, Arrow could easily have bitch slapped Cicada into never never land. This was made abundantly clear when Iris nearly took him out by herself in last night's episode. Seriously WTF. This is not to mention that Killer Frost is not affected by his power dampening. I don't know why they are drawing this out so long, but hopefully it will be done with soon.

Also having trouble on the "we need a plot" front, is Supergirl. In one of the most irritating plotlines of all time, they have govt oversight bitching about Supergirl's "meddling" even though she's saved the f-ing planet multiple times. So they have some cockamamie excuse for why she has to keep her identity a secret and end up mind-wiping her sister. ARGH. Even though they have Brainiac and a telepath that can wipe minds at their disposal, they have to resort to such idiocy to... what? Fool the pathetic govt forces? It's all so frustrating to watch I don't know why I put up with it lol. The sole redeeming quality of the show is the introduction of a transgender character. I thought it was just a stunt casting exercise, but she's actually been a breath of fresh air compared to the rest of this trash. In the mean time the Russians have a cloned Supergirl flying around but the writers don't seem to know what to do with her yet.

I'll admit it's a lot of fun to have all these superhero shows to watch (sorry I didn't add Black Lightning or Legends, I think I've reached super saturation), and I love what they've done with the crossovers. But each show seems to have trouble reconciling the power creep (or lack thereof in Arrow's case). Team Flash is incredibly powerful, with 2 (or 3) speedsters that can time travel, a super ice/cold controller, a stretcher a la Mr. Fantastic, and a teleporter. Supergirl is already unbelievably powerful, and then you add Martian Manhunter and Brainiac and it's just ridiculous. But the writers seem reluctant to embrace all this power and are constantly trying to find ways to turn their powers against them. And on the opposite side, you have Arrow, where any one of the characters in the other shows would be godlike, yet they have to constantly struggle against even the most trivial of villains. I don't know what my point is, but I do feel they are in need of a big change, perhaps cancelling or merging, or going with a new set of writers.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:32 pm

Fans of DC should do themselves a favor and subscribe to DC Universe. The 3rd season of Young Justice is already about a dozen or so episodes into its 26 episode run and it’s superb. Also, they’re premiering DC animated films before they even hit stores or other streaming services. Combined with the rapidly growing library of comics, remastered classic Batman the Animated Series, and upcoming shows like Doom Patrol, it’s well worth the money.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:02 pm

rittchard wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:25 pm I don't know what my point is, but I do feel they are in need of a big change, perhaps cancelling or merging, or going with a new set of writers.

I'm pretty sure that they're aware of that, and that's why they're setting up Crisis on Infinite Earths for next season. And in the comics, Crisis...

Spoiler:

hepcat wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:32 pm Fans of DC should do themselves a favor and subscribe to DC Universe.

It is my personal monthly splurge. I still watch all five of the CW shows (and will watch Batwoman when it premiers.)

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:46 pm

Holy crap, Doom Patrol on DC Universe is outstanding.

I was not expecting that after the mediocre Titans appearance. But the show is going Vertigo instead of straight DC. It’s tragic, creepy, funny, and weird, all at once. I hope they keep it up.

The cast is excellent, every one of them. But Brendan Fraser does more with just his voice than most actors I’ve seen recently.

And Alan Tudyk!

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:40 pm

What is funny is the I remember reading the comic years and years ago, and didn't realize they were still a thing. It was sort of an oddball comic, and I had not thought of it in years. I find interesting that of all their properties, they chose this one to make a TV show of.

MonkeyFinger · Post by **MonkeyFinger** » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:50 pm

Holy crap indeed, Doom Patrol? I think I still have some of the comics stashed away in the basement!

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:32 am

I have a feeling that Bruce Timm’s influencing things. He’s always had a more eclectic approach to turning their properties into shows.

Critics are raving about Doom Patrol in almost every review I’ve seen. 93 percent on RT and holding.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:50 pm

Looks bad to me but I dont really watch this stuff now. But we always loved Brendan Fraser is everything he did.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:15 pm

Not sure why that trailer looks bad to you. If anything, it makes me want to watch the pilot yet again. It's not Legion level (nothing is), but it's pretty damn close.

Although I do admit to not being a fan of including Cyborg. I feel like that character is being forced into every single show DC does these days. However, he hasn't shown up yet in DP, so hopefully it's a different approach to the character.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:07 pm

Playing Oliver Queen has been the greatest professional experience of my life... but you can’t be a vigilante forever.

Arrow will return for a final run of 10 episodes this Fall.

There’s so much to say... for now I just want to say thank you.

I'm pretty sure I know how they're going to do it, too, with Arrow ending with the next crossover.

rittchard · Post by **rittchard** » Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:02 pm

Blackhawk wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:07 pm I'm pretty sure I know how they're going to do it, too, with Arrow ending with the next crossover.

That's pretty much what I've been hoping for (see my previous posts). I just hope they make good choices with which series/characters they decide to end and allow for guest appearances and whatnot.

Arrow has continued to be the best of the series this year IMHO. The addition of a mysterious flash forward plotline involving all the team's kids has really made the show far more interesting. And in the main timeline, they FINALLY seem to be progressing past their obsession with the absolutely terrible villain Ricardo Diaz. Hopefully the remainder of the season will continue to improve.

In the mean time, Flash and Supergirl continue to flounder with inane plotlines. Last night's Flash was Grodd vs. Human Shark or something like that. I gave up after falling asleep 3 times. Supergirl seems obsessed with their new Dreamer trans girl and the annoying Brainiac, and have thus far wasted what seemed like a cool Russian clone Supergirl plotline.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:23 pm

I actually thought that Diaz was one of the better villains in a while. Flash I still enjoy for what it is. Supergirl... just needs to stop with the awkward, heavy-handed political commentary. I agree with a lot of their positions and even I cringe at some of it. There is also a rumor going around that Legends is about to end.

sgoldj · Post by **sgoldj** » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:56 am

I have not watched Flash since “Elseworlds” so will catch up in that later. Supergirl had me bored for reasons stated above, but the last two episodes have got me looking forward to it again.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:47 am

Doom Patrol continues to be one of the best anti-superhero/superhero shows on TV. It's up there with Legion in terms of quality at this point, in my opinion. This last episode gave us a character from the comics that I never thought I'd see on television due to its overall weirdness

Spoiler:

Brendan Fraser still steals the show with his Robotman, but the entire cast is really strong. Although I'm still not on board with adding Cyborg. But I guess he'll end up being the connection between the world of the superheroes and the world of the...well...strange and weird that Doom Patrol lives in.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:09 pm

Tonight's Doom Patrol was dark, more so than normal. I knew Crazy Jane's origin, but damn.

The stuff they only hinted at, as explained in the comics:

Spoiler:

In other news, Iain Glen (Jorah from GoT) was just cast as Batman in Titans.

Punisher · Post by **Punisher** » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:31 am

Spoiler:

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:37 am

Blackhawk wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:09 pm Tonight's Doom Patrol was dark, more so than normal. I knew Crazy Jane's origin, but damn.

The stuff they only hinted at, as explained in the comics:

Spoiler:
Kay was regularly molested by her father. This caused her to withdraw and create the 'Miranda' personality to cope. The Miranda personality was then brutally raped, causing it to explode into dozens of personalities. When the Dominators (the same ones from Supergirl) later set off a 'gene bomb', it turned all of her personalities into different superheroes with different powers.
In other news, Iain Glen (Jorah from GoT) was just cast as Batman in Titans.

I usually dislike “mind episodes”, but this one was done well. There was a real reason for it. Plus, the Underground and its denizens are interesting. Oh, and an old REM reference is always a good thing.

I love how they’ve structured some of the story architecture this season. For example: when Jane and Cliff wake up, they notice the lab is in disarray and ask what happened. Rita just says “it’s a long story”...and it appears next episode covers that story. This isn’t the first time this has happened.

Also, I want an entire episode based around Jack Straw.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:41 pm

There is already buzz going around that Warner is 'reevaluating' DC Universe, and has apparently shut down production on Swamp Thing early, re-jiggering it for 10 episodes instead of 13.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:43 pm

Because it's losing money for them?

edit: never mind, I found something on it.

I love it and planned on sticking with it for as long as it was around, so that would suck if it went belly up.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:45 pm

Seeing as it doesn't come out for a month and a half...?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:46 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:45 pm Seeing as it doesn't come out for a month and a half...?

We were talking about the DC Universe subscription service.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:49 pm

I went with Swamp Thing.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:51 pm

I assumed as much, which is why I clarified for you.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:02 pm

If you dig deeper in, the source article includes

Sources said the reason given to crew for the abrupt end of filming was so Warner Bros. could evaluate the future of its DC Universe streaming platform, on which “Swamp Thing” is scheduled to premiere May 31. That premiere will still go forward.

I've heard that Disney had a big impact on this and other streaming services with their lower price for more content. Hopefully if they drop DC Universe they'll move their shows (Titans, Doom Patrol, Swamp Thing, plus the back catalog) over to the upcoming Warner streaming service.