Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

[Holman]

Fuck what people think of you.
Do what you feel and then live with the consequences.

Except we all have to live with shared consequences.

That's why elections are about persuading others.

See, heres the problem I see. Income inequality is making people dumber and less engaged and truly angry. There are enough people out there that are so disgusted with their lot in life; that they will knowingly who vote for the worst possible canidate just to burn it all down. I'm not even talking about the dum dums who believe in Trump, I'm talking about the people who know the system is screwing them.

If the machine doesen't work for them then why should it be allowed to work for anyone? Why should I knowingly support a canidate who may talk a good game but will give exactly two f-cks about people who work for a living (or would like to).

Its like a house burning down, and the people in the house are allowed to vote for a fireman who won't save the people in the first floor no matter what but will save the people in the floors above them, or a fireman who may help a few people in the attic but the house is gonna burn down regardless.

What incentive will the people on the first floor have to save the building? None that I can see.

F-ck I'm not explaining this right.

Your simile is a cartoon.

The choice is between a president that does some good things and one who does many, many terrible things.

You'd like it to be otherwise, but that's how it is. It's possible that options might expand in the future, but (paradoxically, because Constitution) voting third-party actually makes this less likely.

[Drazzil]

That said. I think you guys make some great points that are certainally worth considering. I think the intelligent thing would be to vote for whoever the Dem's run, but the nhilist in me says burn it all down.

I'm starting to come around to your point of view.

[Drazzil]

Fuck what people think of you.
Do what you feel and then live with the consequences.

Except we all have to live with shared consequences.

That's why elections are about persuading others.

See, heres the problem I see. Income inequality is making people dumber and less engaged and truly angry. There are enough people out there that are so disgusted with their lot in life; that they will knowingly who vote for the worst possible canidate just to burn it all down. I'm not even talking about the dum dums who believe in Trump, I'm talking about the people who know the system is screwing them.

If the machine doesen't work for them then why should it be allowed to work for anyone? Why should I knowingly support a canidate who may talk a good game but will give exactly two f-cks about people who work for a living (or would like to).

Its like a house burning down, and the people in the house are allowed to vote for a fireman who won't save the people in the first floor no matter what but will save the people in the floors above them, or a fireman who may help a few people in the attic but the house is gonna burn down regardless.

What incentive will the people on the first floor have to save the building? None that I can see.

F-ck I'm not explaining this right.

Your simile is a cartoon.

The choice is between a president that does some good things and one who does many, many terrible things.

You'd like it to be otherwise, but that's how it is. It's possible that options might expand in the future, but (paradoxically, because Constitution) voting third-party actually makes this less likely.

From a certain standpoint, a centrist Dem in the White will fuck the poor and working class. Donald Trump fucks everyone (even the rich, as instability affects EVERYONE) So why should the poor and working class vote for someone who is going to fuck just them, when they can vote in someone who will fuck everyone and maybe drive sharp systemic change?

[Kraken]

I dont think I can vote for a corporate democrat. I'll prolly go third party if some corporate dem slimes his way into the nomination.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Seriously. Have you looked at where we are?

Fight for the best Dem you can see in the primary, but then vote for the Dem nominee against Trump.

This year more than ever, third parties are absolute bullshit.

He’s moving from California to Oregon. His vote for president matters as much as mine does.

Yeah, that's both frustrating and liberating. In presidential races, only a small fraction of the American electorate matters. Those of us in deep blue or bright red states can vote for whomever we please, or nobody at all. Every now and then that blows up in our faces (see: MA Sen. Scott Brown), but most of the time the victor is preordained.

I have a lifelong history of voting for independents and third parties, with three exceptions: Gerald Ford, because my dad was his insurance agent and I had met him socially; Bronco Bama, because I thought he would transform the country for the better; and Hillary Clinton, simply to +1 Trump's defeat. In light of our country's alarming decline, IDK if I will ever go back to third-party protest votes. The stakes are just too high even if I don't matter.

[Fireball]

I dont think I can vote for a corporate democrat. I'll prolly go third party if some corporate dem slimes his way into the nomination.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Seriously. Have you looked at where we are?

Fight for the best Dem you can see in the primary, but then vote for the Dem nominee against Trump.

This year more than ever, third parties are absolute bullshit.

Children are being stolen from their parents and placed in concentration camps where some of them are dying. Anyone who in the face of this unthinkable nightmare of an Administration can’t bring themselves to vote for the Democratic, even if he or she is not their preferred candidate, is a deeply selfish, stupid and shitty excuse for a human being.

[Drazzil]

I dont think I can vote for a corporate democrat. I'll prolly go third party if some corporate dem slimes his way into the nomination.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Seriously. Have you looked at where we are?

Fight for the best Dem you can see in the primary, but then vote for the Dem nominee against Trump.

This year more than ever, third parties are absolute bullshit.

Children are being stolen from their parents and placed in concentration camps where some of them are dying. Anyone who in the face of this unthinkable nightmare of an Administration can’t bring themselves to vote for the Democratic, even if he or she is not their preferred candidate, is a deeply selfish, stupid and shitty excuse for a human being.

Yeah... People who don't vote for whatever corporatist gets the Dem nod are a real "basket of deplorables" right?

[Fireball]

I dont think I can vote for a corporate democrat. I'll prolly go third party if some corporate dem slimes his way into the nomination.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Seriously. Have you looked at where we are?

Fight for the best Dem you can see in the primary, but then vote for the Dem nominee against Trump.

This year more than ever, third parties are absolute bullshit.

Children are being stolen from their parents and placed in concentration camps where some of them are dying. Anyone who in the face of this unthinkable nightmare of an Administration can’t bring themselves to vote for the Democratic, even if he or she is not their preferred candidate, is a deeply selfish, stupid and shitty excuse for a human being.

Yeah... People who don't vote for whatever corporatist gets the Dem nod are a real "basket of deplorables" right?

Of course, I’m sure you, being a deep and informed political thinker, have a clear and unimpeachable definition of what a “corporate Democrat” is.

[Drazzil]

I dont think I can vote for a corporate democrat. I'll prolly go third party if some corporate dem slimes his way into the nomination.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Seriously. Have you looked at where we are?

Fight for the best Dem you can see in the primary, but then vote for the Dem nominee against Trump.

This year more than ever, third parties are absolute bullshit.

Children are being stolen from their parents and placed in concentration camps where some of them are dying. Anyone who in the face of this unthinkable nightmare of an Administration can’t bring themselves to vote for the Democratic, even if he or she is not their preferred candidate, is a deeply selfish, stupid and shitty excuse for a human being.

Yeah... People who don't vote for whatever corporatist gets the Dem nod are a real "basket of deplorables" right?

Of course, I’m sure you, being a deep and informed political thinker, have a clear and unimpeachable definition of what a “corporate Democrat” is.

Good point.

[em2nought]

When a lamp shade made of illegal alien skin appears on the desk in the oval office, then you can start calling them concentration camps.

[Max Peck]

No, that's when we start calling them death camps instead of concentration camps.

[Drazzil]

No, that's when we start calling them death camps instead of concentration camps.

I think by the strict definition of death camps that these places now qualify.

[Pyperkub]

Fuck what people think of you.
Do what you feel and then live with the consequences.

Except we all have to live with shared consequences.

That's why elections are about persuading others.

See, heres the problem I see. Income inequality is making people dumber and less engaged and truly angry. There are enough people out there that are so disgusted with their lot in life; that they will knowingly who vote for the worst possible canidate just to burn it all down. I'm not even talking about the dum dums who believe in Trump, I'm talking about the people who know the system is screwing them.

If the machine doesen't work for them then why should it be allowed to work for anyone? Why should I knowingly support a canidate who may talk a good game but will give exactly two f-cks about people who work for a living (or would like to).

Its like a house burning down, and the people in the house are allowed to vote for a fireman who won't save the people in the first floor no matter what but will save the people in the floors above them, or a fireman who may help a few people in the attic but the house is gonna burn down regardless.

What incentive will the people on the first floor have to save the building? None that I can see.

F-ck I'm not explaining this right.

Take a look at the perception gap :

What they found is fascinating: Americans’ mental image of the “other side” is a caricature.

According to the Democratic caricature, most Republicans stridently oppose immigration, hold deeply prejudiced views about religious minorities, and are blind to the existence of racism or sexism. Asked to guess what share of Republicans believe that immigration can strengthen America so long as it is “properly controlled,” for example, Democrats estimated about half; actually, nearly nine in ten agreed with this sentiment.

The problem isn't Americans or income inequality, it's the system which induces extreme representatives who don't fully represent their constituents.

[Drazzil]

Fuck what people think of you.
Do what you feel and then live with the consequences.

Except we all have to live with shared consequences.

That's why elections are about persuading others.

See, heres the problem I see. Income inequality is making people dumber and less engaged and truly angry. There are enough people out there that are so disgusted with their lot in life; that they will knowingly who vote for the worst possible canidate just to burn it all down. I'm not even talking about the dum dums who believe in Trump, I'm talking about the people who know the system is screwing them.

If the machine doesen't work for them then why should it be allowed to work for anyone? Why should I knowingly support a canidate who may talk a good game but will give exactly two f-cks about people who work for a living (or would like to).

Its like a house burning down, and the people in the house are allowed to vote for a fireman who won't save the people in the first floor no matter what but will save the people in the floors above them, or a fireman who may help a few people in the attic but the house is gonna burn down regardless.

What incentive will the people on the first floor have to save the building? None that I can see.

F-ck I'm not explaining this right.

Take a look at the perception gap :

What they found is fascinating: Americans’ mental image of the “other side” is a caricature.

According to the Democratic caricature, most Republicans stridently oppose immigration, hold deeply prejudiced views about religious minorities, and are blind to the existence of racism or sexism. Asked to guess what share of Republicans believe that immigration can strengthen America so long as it is “properly controlled,” for example, Democrats estimated about half; actually, nearly nine in ten agreed with this sentiment.

The problem isn't Americans or income inequality, it's the system which induces extreme representatives who don't fully represent their constituents.

And it's not just "perception". One side has lost it's mind and the other side is joined them in a suicide pact!

[YellowKing]

I don't care what they tell a pollster. The only statistic I need is that the lying piece of racist shit in the White House enjoys an 80+ percent popularity rating among Republicans.

[Daehawk]

Oh Lord its election debate time again already. It does not seem like its been long since they all started in 2015. By mid 2016 we were SICK TO DEATH of anything to do with elections. And here it is starting again. Its as if as soon as it ends it restarts. Ugh. Dread it all. Got no one to fuss about it with but the chihuahua this time. Wish they were relegated to a single special tv channel . That way if someone cared they could go watch and leave the rest of us alone.

But really the time since it started last time seems to have flown by quick.

[Drazzil]

Oh Lord its election debate time again already. It does not seem like its been long since they all started in 2015. By mid 2016 we were SICK TO DEATH of anything to do with elections. And here it is starting again. Its as if as soon as it ends it restarts. Ugh. Dread it all. Got no one to fuss about it with but the chihuahua this time. Wish they were relegated to a single special tv channel . That way if someone cared they could go watch and leave the rest of us alone.

But really the time since it started last time seems to have flown by quick.

Yeah. It sucks. But it gives me something to disagree about with most everyone.

[Drazzil]

Fuck what people think of you.
Do what you feel and then live with the consequences.

Except we all have to live with shared consequences.

That's why elections are about persuading others.

See, heres the problem I see. Income inequality is making people dumber and less engaged and truly angry. There are enough people out there that are so disgusted with their lot in life; that they will knowingly who vote for the worst possible canidate just to burn it all down. I'm not even talking about the dum dums who believe in Trump, I'm talking about the people who know the system is screwing them.

If the machine doesen't work for them then why should it be allowed to work for anyone? Why should I knowingly support a canidate who may talk a good game but will give exactly two f-cks about people who work for a living (or would like to).

Its like a house burning down, and the people in the house are allowed to vote for a fireman who won't save the people in the first floor no matter what but will save the people in the floors above them, or a fireman who may help a few people in the attic but the house is gonna burn down regardless.

What incentive will the people on the first floor have to save the building? None that I can see.

F-ck I'm not explaining this right.

Take a look at the perception gap :

What they found is fascinating: Americans’ mental image of the “other side” is a caricature.

According to the Democratic caricature, most Republicans stridently oppose immigration, hold deeply prejudiced views about religious minorities, and are blind to the existence of racism or sexism. Asked to guess what share of Republicans believe that immigration can strengthen America so long as it is “properly controlled,” for example, Democrats estimated about half; actually, nearly nine in ten agreed with this sentiment.

The problem isn't Americans or income inequality, it's the system which induces extreme representatives who don't fully represent their constituents.

I put more of the blame at the feet of money in politics our shit educational system and our grossly unfair inequitable distribution of wealth.

We are literally creating a class of uneducated peasants who happily vote against their own interests to stick it to the other.

[Drazzil]

Heres an article that expresses why I don't want to vote for a centrist. Just replace Biden with establishment canidate and it's all still true.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/44 ... -heres-why

[Daehawk]

I just feel the world is more stupid than it used to be. I blame that on pollution. Somehow.

[Drazzil]

I just feel the world is more stupid than it used to be. I blame that on pollution. Somehow.

That might be part of it too.

[em2nought]

I don't care what they tell a pollster. The only statistic I need is that the lying piece of shit in the White House enjoys an 80+ percent popularity rating among Republicans.

Everybody else in the race is a career politician and "lying" is one of your main objections with the other guy? ROTFLMFAO

[Holman]

I don't care what they tell a pollster. The only statistic I need is that the lying piece of shit in the White House enjoys an 80+ percent popularity rating among Republicans.

Everybody else in the race is a career politician and "lying" is one of your main objections with the other guy? ROTFLMFAO

As a Trump supporter, do you think Trump lies more, less, or the same as other politicians?

I'd love to hear this. Tell us please.

[tjg_marantz]

Still engaging eh?

[YellowKing]

If I supported a treasonous autocrat, I'd be trying to argue that his actions are somehow par for the course as well.

[Kraken]

And, because 23 candidates wasn't enough, a 24th Democrat has thrown his hat in the ring: Joe Sestak is in! Former congressman, almost-senator, retired admiral -- no slouch.

The 67-year-old Sestak is a latecomer in an already-crowded Democratic field — his entry brings the number of candidates to 24 — but said his decision to delay his announcement was because of the return of his daughter’s brain cancer.

Well, that sucks. She doesn't look to be much over 15 years old. One hopes she's recovering.

[Drazzil]

And, because 23 candidates wasn't enough, a 24th Democrat has thrown his hat in the ring: Joe Sestak is in! Former congressman, almost-senator, retired admiral -- no slouch.

The 67-year-old Sestak is a latecomer in an already-crowded Democratic field — his entry brings the number of candidates to 24 — but said his decision to delay his announcement was because of the return of his daughter’s brain cancer.

Well, that sucks. She doesn't look to be much over 15 years old. One hopes she's recovering.

Ohh goodie. Another centrist piles out of the g'dam'ed corporate clown car. I mean, I like him better then Biden, Harris, the Starbucks guy, Buttileg and Booker but he's no Sanders or Warren.

We need a Sanders or Warren.

[Defiant]

Not to derail but since the whole AOC thing has been brought up...

No, that's when we start calling them death camps instead of concentration camps.

I think by the strict definition of death camps that these places now qualify.

No, they're not death camps by any definition, and quite frankly, concentration camps isn't exactly appropriate vocabulary either. "Concentration camps" (which bring to mind death camps to many) particularily when coupled with the phrase "Never again" (a phrase directly connected with the Holocaust) are intended to specifically bring to mind death camps, which they are not. But they're not non-death camp Nazi concentration camps either - which had things like forced labor, torture, starvation, medical experimentation, etc. and many, many deaths and killings.

What is going on is cruel, inhuman, worthy of condemnation and should be stopped. But not everything that's cruel or inhuman is The Holocaust. I'm reminded of this quote:

Using historically invalid analogies gives those responsible for these outrages a chance to wriggle out from the avalanche of justified attacks on their policies. It gives them the opportunity to shift the conversation to the appropriateness of the comparison, and the precision of the parallel.

They don’t deserve it.

Leave the Holocaust comparisons for things like Rwanda, Darfur, etc.

[$iljanus]

Call them internment camps, like the one's we operated in WW2 for Japanese Americans.

[Holman]

And, because 23 candidates wasn't enough, a 24th Democrat has thrown his hat in the ring: Joe Sestak is in! Former congressman, almost-senator, retired admiral -- no slouch.

No slouch, but no chance of winning the primary whatsoever.

He's probably running for Secretary of Defense.

[Holman]

Call them internment camps, like the one's we operated in WW2 for Japanese Americans.

The wartime internment camps were a shameful episode in American history, but they did allow communities to develop--in large part because families were kept together and given somewhat decent housing.

Trump's camps are cruel by design. It's a whole different level of malignity.

[Smoove_B]

Leave the Holocaust comparisons for things like Rwanda, Darfur, etc.

Right, calling them death camps isn't correct. But the Nazis didn't just go from zero to death camps overnight. Instead, they started detaining women, children and undesirables in concentration camps, all prior to the start of WW2. 80 years later we (society, collectively) equate the terms concentration and death camps, but they're not the same (historically).

The core issue here is the idea that "undesirables" (including women and children) are being held indefinitely in prison-like environments. The idea that this same type of system was a precursor to the horrific acts of WW2 should be alarming.

[Jaymann]

Another parallel is Il Douche is drumming up a "crisis" of brown people where none exists, actually calling out troops as a reaction.

[hepcat]

I don't care what they tell a pollster. The only statistic I need is that the lying piece of shit in the White House enjoys an 80+ percent popularity rating among Republicans.

Everybody else in the race is a career politician and "lying" is one of your main objections with the other guy? ROTFLMFAO

Everyone in the White House is a career criminal and "lying" is one of your supporting arguments for keeping them there?

[em2nought]

Call them internment camps, like the one's we operated in WW2 for Japanese Americans.

The wartime internment camps were a shameful episode in American history, but they did allow communities to develop--in large part because families were kept together and given somewhat decent housing.

Trump's camps are cruel by design. It's a whole different level of malignity.

So these are "Trump's" camps? Camps such as this didn't exist during the Obama era? The pictures being shown of the camps aren't stock photos from Obama's camps in 2014?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/31/upsh ... ation.html

Obama's Camp

[hepcat]

Trump has tried to take credit for everything else Obama has done. Why do you care about this one?

[gbasden]

Call them internment camps, like the one's we operated in WW2 for Japanese Americans.

The wartime internment camps were a shameful episode in American history, but they did allow communities to develop--in large part because families were kept together and given somewhat decent housing.

Trump's camps are cruel by design. It's a whole different level of malignity.

So these are "Trump's" camps? Camps such as this didn't exist during the Obama era? The pictures being shown of the camps aren't stock photos from Obama's camps in 2014?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/31/upsh ... ation.html

Obama's Camp

Just to be clear, the more I hear about the situation on the border under Obama, the more upset I am about that as well. That doesn't change the fact that we now have a situation that is horrific and violates basic human decency. Being previously at disgusting does not excuse now being at 10x disgusting.

[Fireball]

The Obama crisis at the border was caused when waves of unaccompanied minors appeared, far more than could be processed. The system was overwhelmed and conditions got bad until more funds and personnel were made available, and then they got better. There are many differences between the Obama crisis a this one:

1) The Administration in this situation is refusing to take necessary, even basic, actions to improve conditions for these kids.

2) Many of these children arrived with adult family members, from whom they were separated.

3) The unaccompanied minor issue is no longer new, or a surprise.

Obama's team failed while trying to do the right thing, but eventually found their footing. Trump's team isn't even trying to do the right thing, and the situation is getting exponentially worse.

[LordMortis]

Call them internment camps, like the one's we operated in WW2 for Japanese Americans.

The wartime internment camps were a shameful episode in American history, but they did allow communities to develop--in large part because families were kept together and given somewhat decent housing.

Trump's camps are cruel by design. It's a whole different level of malignity.

So these are "Trump's" camps? Camps such as this didn't exist during the Obama era? The pictures being shown of the camps aren't stock photos from Obama's camps in 2014?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/31/upsh ... ation.html

Obama's Camp

In what reality is it OK because bad shit happened under Obama's watch? I can point to plenty of bad things that happened under Obama's watch. None of them excuse The POtuS or the sheep of Putin that voted that still make excuses for him.

[Drazzil]

Call them internment camps, like the one's we operated in WW2 for Japanese Americans.

The wartime internment camps were a shameful episode in American history, but they did allow communities to develop--in large part because families were kept together and given somewhat decent housing.

Trump's camps are cruel by design. It's a whole different level of malignity.

So these are "Trump's" camps? Camps such as this didn't exist during the Obama era? The pictures being shown of the camps aren't stock photos from Obama's camps in 2014?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/31/upsh ... ation.html

Obama's Camp

In what reality is it OK because bad shit happened under Obama's watch? I can point to plenty of bad things that happened under Obama's watch. None of them excuse The POtuS or the sheep of Putin that voted that still make excuses for him.

Seeing kids treated like that makes me mad.

[Holman]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 6907378695

Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina has really stepped up to the plate. Thom is tough on Crime, Strong on the Border and fights hard against Illegal Immigration. He loves our Military, our Vets and our great Second Amendment. I give Thom my Full and Total Endorsement!

Has anyone else noticed that Trump uses the same boilerplate tweet for every lower-office endorsement?

It's *always* "[Candidate] is tough on Crime, Strong on the Border and fights hard against Illegal Immigration. [He/She] loves our Military, our Vets and our great Second Amendment. I give [Candidate] my Full and Total Endorsement!" I know I've seen this exact template at least twenty times.

Aside from the weirdness of this particular set of supreme priorities (and their capitalization), doesn't repetition dull the effect?