Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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Holman
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Holman »

Smoove_B wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:04 pm
Holman wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:55 pmAre they re-selling and price gouging?
Like that douche Shakespeare?
"Over a 15-year period he purchased and stored grain, malt and barley for resale at inflated prices to his neighbours and local tradesmen," they wrote, adding that Shakespeare "pursued those who could not (or would not) pay him in full for these staples and used the profits to further his own money-lending activities."

He was pursued by the authorities for tax evasion, and in 1598 was prosecuted for hoarding grain during a time of shortage.
One fun thing about Shakespeare's England is that they were *extremely* litigious. That's part of how we know so much about the economy and lifestyle of the era--they were always suing each other, and the courts kept good records.

(I know the case mentioned was different from a lawsuit, but I'll jump on a tangent whenever possible.)
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Smoove_B »

Oh hey look, yet another political official voicing advice in direct opposition to public health recommendations during a communicable disease pandemic. I've said it before - this is unprecedented.
Rep. Devin Nunes of California urged Americans to go out and visit bars and restaurants on Sunday, amid mounting calls by experts for people to avoid public gatherings to avoid spreading coronavirus, which causes the disease COVID-19.

In an appearance on Fox News’ Sunday Morning Futures , Nunes told that people should “stop panicking here.” He was concerned that the COVID-19 pandemic could harm the economy, “because people are scared to go out.”
Order take-out or delivery (I'm doing it tonight) if you want to support local small business.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by El Guapo »

Smoove_B wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:28 pm Oh hey look, yet another political official voicing advice in direct opposition to public health recommendations during a communicable disease pandemic. I've said it before - this is unprecedented.
Rep. Devin Nunes of California urged Americans to go out and visit bars and restaurants on Sunday, amid mounting calls by experts for people to avoid public gatherings to avoid spreading coronavirus, which causes the disease COVID-19.

In an appearance on Fox News’ Sunday Morning Futures , Nunes told that people should “stop panicking here.” He was concerned that the COVID-19 pandemic could harm the economy, “because people are scared to go out.”
Order take-out or delivery (I'm doing it tonight) if you want to support local small business.
Is take-out and delivery safe? I worry (in the pre-President Sanders era) about restaurant employees who are sick but can't afford to take time off or go to the doctor.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Smoove_B »

El Guapo wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:31 pmIs take-out and delivery safe? I worry (in the pre-President Sanders era) about restaurant employees who are sick but can't afford to take time off or go to the doctor.
Yes. One of my academic mentors is a food-safety expert and he's been fielding this question steadily for the last few weeks. I'll default to him via his Twitter messages to the world. He taught me everything I know about communicable diseases.
Spraying all your “order in” food with Lysol is probably an overreaction. Your biggest risk is if the delivery person sneezes or coughs on you. If you want to be sure wash and/or disinfect your hands after handling the packaging and beginning to eat, but either way very low risk.
And:
There is also no evidence of transmission the foods. Doesn’t mean it can’t happen, but it’s a low probability event. You’re more likely to catch it from someone sneezing next to you in a restaurant and you breathing it in versus if somebody sneezed on your food.
He's kind of a big deal if you want to follow him (and I would recommend it):
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Holman »

Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Blackhawk »

And no doubt claim that he made it himself with his Li'l Prez Chemistry Set.

/edit - If he was wanting to take us back to post-WWII 'greatness', that would be a way to do it, though. Leave the US intact and the rest of the world in shambles. I doubt he's smart enough to figure that out, though. Well, that and the fact that the rest of the world wouldn't let that stand.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Daehawk »

So are the idiots preaching to go out and mingle actually doing that themselves? I hope so. I hear Italy is beautiful this time of year.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

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Hodor.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Grifman »

Smoove_B wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:38 pm
El Guapo wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:31 pmIs take-out and delivery safe? I worry (in the pre-President Sanders era) about restaurant employees who are sick but can't afford to take time off or go to the doctor.
Yes. One of my academic mentors is a food-safety expert and he's been fielding this question steadily for the last few weeks. I'll default to him via his Twitter messages to the world. He taught me everything I know about communicable diseases.
Spraying all your “order in” food with Lysol is probably an overreaction. Your biggest risk is if the delivery person sneezes or coughs on you. If you want to be sure wash and/or disinfect your hands after handling the packaging and beginning to eat, but either way very low risk.
And:
There is also no evidence of transmission the foods. Doesn’t mean it can’t happen, but it’s a low probability event. You’re more likely to catch it from someone sneezing next to you in a restaurant and you breathing it in versus if somebody sneezed on your food.
He's kind of a big deal if you want to follow him (and I would recommend it):
Ok, but help me make sense of this. If someone can cough or sneeze on me or I can pick it up from touching something that someone else has touched, then why not food? Someone is preparing it, will touch it, can cough or sneeze on it. How can it be safe? Why is food any different than any other object out there that we should avoid touching? I'd love to continue to support some local favorites of mine but I'm not sure how safe. Take out may be "safer" because I'm not in a room with with a bunch of infected strangers but I'm not sure how it's "safe". Does he explain it anywhere and can you provide his quote/explanation here?
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by LawBeefaroni »

[Illinois governor] Pritzker orders all bars and restaurants to close to dine-in customers by end of day Monday.

“The time for persuasion and public appeals is over. The time for action is here,” the governor said. “This is not a joke. No one is immune to this, and you have an obligation to act in the best interests of all the people of this state.”
Oh boy...
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Grifman »

Holman wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:06 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:47 am
Kraken wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:42 am Americans used to be more community-minded, more compliant to authority, and believed the same news. Growing up during the depression and fighting WW2 (as my parents did) did instill a sense of pulling together. IDK that we're softer today, but we're certainly more fractious.
People during the depression certainly wouldn't have bought up all of the toilet paper in town in order sell it back to the community at a steep mark up. Well, a few might have, but they wouldn't have been well-received. By which I mean they'd have been made an example of.
But how many people are *actually* doing that?
Well, I can't speak for others but my church is getting together a committee and other volunteers to make sure all of our elderly get their needs taken care of - groceries, prescriptions, regular contact, whatever they need to that they can isolate themselves and stay safe. I'm kind of proud of our response.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Grifman »

On the negative side far too many of my Trumpaloo friends still think this is;

Overblown by the media and it will all work out in the end
A Chinese/Democratic Party conspiracy organized by John Kerry (seriously1!)
A hoax to take down Trump since impeachment failed

Sometimes I just want to tell them to put their head in a buck of corona virus if it's not so bad and just shut up.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Grifman »

It felt weird last night going to see my 93 year old mom for dinner (at her house of course) and not being able to hug or kiss her, and sitting on the opposite end of the couch from here.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by LawBeefaroni »

The Federal Reserve, saying “the coronavirus outbreak has harmed communities and disrupted economic activity in many countries, including the United States,” cut interest rates to near-zero on Sunday and launched a massive $700 billion quantitative easing program to shelter the economy from the effects of the virus.

Facing highly disrupted financial markets, the Fed also slashed the rate of emergency lending at the discount window for banks by 125 bps to 0.25%, and lengthened the term of loans to 90 days.

The new fed funds rate, used as a benchmark both for short-term lending for financial institutions and as a peg to many consume rates, will now be targeted at 0%-0.25%.

The Fed also cut reserve requirement ratios for thousands of banks to zero.
This is just announced. Not the same stuff from Friday.

Guessing the markets were headed down meltdown open tomorrow.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Daehawk »

Wish I could refinance the home and get off this 11.5% interest.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by mori »

If someone was going to pay me for the next two weeks, I would bunker down and go through my Steam library.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Z-Corn »

...and we just closed on our refi last Thursday...crap.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by malchior »

This press conference was un-fucking-real. I'll take Pence at this point - heck I'd take Ivanka - anyone is better than this lunatic. The man is unhinged. He got asked about the Google website, got pissed off, lied/gaslit the entire world, and then threw his paper on the floor. Then Fauci basically told the truth. When this is over we need to demand a full accounting of this disaster.

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1239309140884938754
Trump minutes ago: We have "tremendous control" of the coronavirus.

Fauci just now at the same briefing, after Trump leaves: "The worst is yet ahead for us. It is how we respond to that challenge that is going to determine what the ultimate end point is going to be."
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by pr0ner »

Z-Corn wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:52 pm ...and we just closed on our refi last Thursday...crap.
Interest rates actually spiked at the end of the week since the virus appears to be slowing down home sales. Week before last my bank was at 2.875% for a 30 year conforming at 0.250 points. Right now they're at 3.5% and 1.250 points.

I put in a refi application 2 weeks ago and I haven't been quoted a rate yet. I'm not sure I want to pay a few thousand bucks to maybe go down .75% when I could have gone down 1.375% a week ago almost for free (if my bank could have gotten back to me faster).
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Smoove_B »

Grifman wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:14 pmOk, but help me make sense of this. If someone can cough or sneeze on me or I can pick it up from touching something that someone else has touched, then why not food? Someone is preparing it, will touch it, can cough or sneeze on it. How can it be safe? Why is food any different than any other object out there that we should avoid touching? I'd love to continue to support some local favorites of mine but I'm not sure how safe. Take out may be "safer" because I'm not in a room with with a bunch of infected strangers but I'm not sure how it's "safe". Does he explain it anywhere and can you provide his quote/explanation here?
Yes, it's the method of transmission. Without putting everyone to sleep, there are different ways bacteria/viruses/parasites get from the host into a new host. The virus (based on what we know right now) is seemingly most likely transmitted through droplets - tiny globs of saliva/mucous that are ejected from hosts nose and/or mouth when they cough or sneeze. Those tiny globs then need to come into contact with your eyes or nose and/or you're breathing in through your mouth and you inhale them. The mucosal membranes of your throat and stomach are more protected.

So basically, here are the scenarios:

* If someone is making you a burger and they cough/sneeze into it, then cook it, the virus is killed (no risk) - but still gross.

*If someone is making you a burger, they cook it, sneeze in their hand, pick up the burger and hand it to you, and then you eat it (extremely low risk). When you eat the burger and ingest the virus it is (based on current knowledge) inactivated by stomach acids and destroyed.

*Someone makes you a burger, they cook it, place it inside a container, sneeze on their hand and then touch the outside of the container and hand it to you; your hand touches that container / package surface, then you rub your eye (riskier, unknown level). This last scenario is no different than touching a doorknob or a handrail - it's just a non-food surface (packaging/container) that has been contaminated (in my world, we call these fomites) and you've now spread those droplets from that surface to your body.

In years to come there will be studies to figure all this out. We're not there yet. So best practices would say if you're really concerned, washing your hands after opening all the packages would be safest but (so far) risk seems low as we don't believe (yet) that cardboard, plastic or Styrofoam containers are likely surfaces that can transmit this virus; that may change.

tl;dr the risk for disease transmission is highest through the air (short distances); being sneezed on, being coughed on is to be avoided. Being in close proximity to people coughing and sneezing? Also should be avoided. Making sure to wash your hands when you're out and about, then back in a safe place and/or you're caring for someone is paramount.

This is also why there's been a call for greater sanitizing of surfaces. To deal with those tiny droplets that have collected on incidental surfaces when people cough or sneeze without covering. Here, we're trying to minimize risk that someone touches that surface, picks up viral droplets and then ends up touching their face.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by malchior »

I am in the process of looking at a refi now but might back off for now. My wife's employer is off the rails, wants to keep running the factory, and is leaning on her to be the only manager to come in and supervise QA production. Everyone else not on the floor is going to work remote. Unsurprisingly she is pretty upset. If she quits then the whole thing will collapse so I'm probably going to hedge my bets and stop it now. Luckily I haven't paid for the appraisal yet.
Last edited by malchior on Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Grifman »

Daehawk wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:44 pm Wish I could refinance the home and get off this 11.5% interest.
Why can't you?
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Smoove_B »

Grifman wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:22 pm Well, I can't speak for others but my church is getting together a committee and other volunteers to make sure all of our elderly get their needs taken care of - groceries, prescriptions, regular contact, whatever they need to that they can isolate themselves and stay safe. I'm kind of proud of our response.
This is exactly the kind of thing that needs to be done and it will likely be something that will be pointed out as having been quite helpful. I would recommend calling your local/county health department and seeing if their visiting nurse can assist in any way. Worst case, you've now opened up a communication channel with the regional community health nurse and they have another point of contact for seniors that potentially need assistance but are currently receiving some community-based help.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Grifman »

Smoove_B wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:16 pm
Grifman wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:14 pmOk, but help me make sense of this. If someone can cough or sneeze on me or I can pick it up from touching something that someone else has touched, then why not food? Someone is preparing it, will touch it, can cough or sneeze on it. How can it be safe? Why is food any different than any other object out there that we should avoid touching? I'd love to continue to support some local favorites of mine but I'm not sure how safe. Take out may be "safer" because I'm not in a room with with a bunch of infected strangers but I'm not sure how it's "safe". Does he explain it anywhere and can you provide his quote/explanation here?
Yes, it's the method of transmission. Without putting everyone to sleep, there are different ways bacteria/viruses/parasites get from the host into a new host. The virus (based on what we know right now) is seemingly most likely transmitted through droplets - tiny globs of saliva/mucous that are ejected from hosts nose and/or mouth when they cough or sneeze. Those tiny globs then need to come into contact with your eyes or nose and/or you're breathing in through your mouth and you inhale them. The mucosal membranes of your throat and stomach are more protected.

So basically, here are the scenarios:

* If someone is making you a burger and they cough/sneeze into it, then cook it, the virus is killed (no risk) - but still gross.

*If someone is making you a burger, they cook it, sneeze in their hand, pick up the burger and hand it to you, and then you eat it (extremely low risk). When you eat the burger and ingest the virus it is (based on current knowledge) inactivated by stomach acids and destroyed.

*Someone makes you a burger, they cook it, place it inside a container, sneeze on their hand and then touch the outside of the container and hand it to you; your hand touches that container / package surface, then you rub your eye (riskier, unknown level). This last scenario is no different than touching a doorknob or a handrail - it's just a non-food surface (packaging/container) that has been contaminated (in my world, we call these fomites) and you've now spread those droplets from that surface to your body.

In years to come there will be studies to figure all this out. We're not there yet. So best practices would say if you're really concerned, washing your hands after opening all the packages would be safest but (so far) risk seems low as we don't believe (yet) that cardboard, plastic or Styrofoam containers are likely surfaces that can transmit this virus; that may change.

tl;dr the risk for disease transmission is highest through the air (short distances); being sneezed on, being coughed on is to be avoided. Being in close proximity to people coughing and sneezing? Also should be avoided. Making sure to wash your hands when you're out and about, then back in a safe place and/or you're caring for someone is paramount.

This is also why there's been a call for greater sanitizing of surfaces. To deal with those tiny droplets that have collected on incidental surfaces when people cough or sneeze without covering. Here, we're trying to minimize risk that someone touches that surface, picks up viral droplets and then ends up touching their face.
Smoove, thanks, that was very helpful. I appreciate the time to you took to explain all that in detail very much.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Smoove_B »

No problem. If things change, I'll modify what the new recommendations are. I'm hoping that this type of thing can keep restaurants in business. It won't be exactly the same, but if it keeps them open and using the food we all still need; there's value in that for everyone.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by gameoverman »

the supply chain remained healthy

I don't thing Trump or his people realize this isn't about the supply chain. People are worried that OTHER people will buy up the supplies, so therefore they must buy as much as possible before there's a shortage. Done on a wide scale, this causes the shortage and that shortage only reinforces the panic to buy more. Nowhere in this sequence of events does anyone care that toilet paper is still being made and shipped.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Grifman »

gameoverman wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:48 pm
the supply chain remained healthy

I don't thing Trump or his people realize this isn't about the supply chain. People are worried that OTHER people will buy up the supplies, so therefore they must buy as much as possible before there's a shortage. Done on a wide scale, this causes the shortage and that shortage only reinforces the panic to buy more. Nowhere in this sequence of events does anyone care that toilet paper is still being made and shipped.
Yes, but if you reassure people that the supply chain is still working, then that should calm at least some of the panic buying down. Other than rationing it, there's not much more you can do other than reassure people. This comment may or may not have helped but I wouldn't fault anyone for it.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Z-Corn »

pr0ner wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:00 pm
Z-Corn wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:52 pm ...and we just closed on our refi last Thursday...crap.
Interest rates actually spiked at the end of the week since the virus appears to be slowing down home sales. Week before last my bank was at 2.875% for a 30 year conforming at 0.250 points. Right now they're at 3.5% and 1.250 points.

I put in a refi application 2 weeks ago and I haven't been quoted a rate yet. I'm not sure I want to pay a few thousand bucks to maybe go down .75% when I could have gone down 1.375% a week ago almost for free (if my bank could have gotten back to me faster).
We still have bad timing. We closed at 3.875% with no points. Rate was locked like a month ago.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Smoove_B »

First story I'm seeing, so I figured I'd share. What happens when you refuse to take a voluntary suggestion to self-isolate? It's enforced by law.
BARDSTOWN, Ky. (WDRB) -- At a home in Nelson County sheriff's deputies are doing something unprecedented that the governor and others ordered.

A 53-year-old man in Nelson County who has a confirmed case of the novel coronavirus refused to self-isolate, Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear said Saturday.

...

Nelson County Sheriff Ramon Pineiroa said the man is now cooperating, but deputies will remain outside his house 24/7 for the foreseeable future. Pineiroa did not identify where in Nelson County the man lives.

The man left a hospital against medical advice, according to Beshear. It's unknown what facility the man left, but Pineiroa said the man gave a Meade County address at the hospital despite living in Nelson County for quite some time.
Asshole. To have officers of the law wasting their time standing there? This man should be thrown into an isolation cell for 2+ weeks so resources can't be better spent doing police work.
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by mori »

People do not seem to understand there will always be TP available. People seem to be buying it until it is bursting from the seams in their homes. I guess this is what survivors of The Walking Dead have been living off of for years. I do not know if they think it will be a bartering commodity in the future or are leaving it for the survivors. I did witness a few people coming into taprooms/bars and trying to buy their drinks with rolls of TP (as a joke).
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Daehawk »

Mr friend posted this....

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I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
When in doubt, skewer it out...I don't know.
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Unagi
Posts: 28638
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Location: Chicago

Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Unagi »

mori wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:15 pm People do not seem to understand there will always be TP available. People seem to be buying it until it is bursting from the seams in their homes. I guess this is what survivors of The Walking Dead have been living off of for years. I do not know if they think it will be a bartering commodity in the future or are leaving it for the survivors. I did witness a few people coming into taprooms/bars and trying to buy their drinks with rolls of TP (as a joke).
I think Pascal would wager that it couldn’t hurt to have a little more than normal stocked.
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Smoove_B
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Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Smoove_B »

Defiant wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:50 am It's nice to know that at least some assholes trying to profit on this aren't succeeding How about donating it?


Looks like the TN Attorney General is helping him "donate" his supplies, as I'd hoped.

https://twitter.com/hunterhoagland/stat ... 7064288259
HAPPENING NOW: Matt did not answer our calls so we went to his storage unit. The AG’s office was on the scene facilitating with the donation. This is the 3rd stop they’ve been to this morning to gather the sanitizer.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Daehawk
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Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Daehawk »

I would have no problem with the dude if he was making a $1 or so off each bottle. Say $3 - $5 for those big bottles. But $70 makes me glad this happened to him.
--------------------------------------------
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
When in doubt, skewer it out...I don't know.
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em2nought
Posts: 5883
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:48 am

Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by em2nought »

If you die before an election, but you've already sent in your absentee ballot does that vote get counted? :think:
Em2nought is ecstatic garbage
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Holman
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Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by Holman »

Oh hey remember this guy?

https://twitter.com/SheriffClarke/statu ... 71266?s=20
Wacko Trump Sheriff wrote:It is now evident that this is an orchestrated attempt to destroy CAPITALISM. First sports, then schools and finally commercial businesses. Time to RISE UP and push back. Bars and restaurants should defy the order. Let people decide if they want to go out

...

GO INTO THE STREETS FOLKS. Visit bars, restaurants, shopping malls, CHURCHES and demand that your schools re-open. NOW!
If government doesn’t stop this foolishness...STAY IN THE STREETS.
END GOVERNEMNT CONTROL OVER OUR LIVES. IF NOT NOW, WHEN?
THIS IS AN EXPLOITATION OF A CRISIS.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
malchior
Posts: 24795
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Corona Virus/Superbug Thread: It's the End of the World as We Know It...

Post by malchior »

If this gets bad, is there any way to hold these guys criminally liable? There are limits to free speech. This is not far off from yelling fire in a theater.
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