Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:55 pm

Defiant wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:38 pm If this paper is correct, it's some positive news for when the temperature starts to rise:

High Temperature and High Humidity Reduce the Transmission of COVID-19

Which is what POTUS said... but miscommunicated with his this is fake news. It will all go away when it gets warm. or something similar.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:56 pm

Who would ever think it wouldn't be NY that Trump disses. Hope its NY that puts him in prison for tax fraud.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:03 pm

Defiant wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:04 am Anti-inflammatories may aggravate Covid-19, France advises

So if I understand this right, take acetaminophen / Tylenol and not Ibuprofen.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:09 pm

El Guapo wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:03 pm
Defiant wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:04 am Anti-inflammatories may aggravate Covid-19, France advises
So if I understand this right, take acetaminophen / Tylenol and not Ibuprofen.

If true, that can't be good. Anti intinflamatories are the exact thing they give to people with compromised immune systems.

I'm down to Aspirin. I can't take Ibuprphen for my crones. I can't take acetaminophen for my liver. I can't take anaparox for my asthma.

I must take aspirin for my heart though, so it's all good right?

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:12 pm

Sorry.... Aspirin and ibuprofen are nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) used to treat fever, pain, and inflammation in the body. Aspirin is also used to prevent blood clots, and to reduce the risk of strokes and heart attacks.

My wife had to stop taking her baby aspirin a day she had taken since her heart bypass when she had an infection that was aggravated by NSAIDS.

I think between having to stop her aspirin and starting that blood thinner it lead to her stroke.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:17 pm

[sarcastic defeat]Thanks[/sarcastic defeat]

Given my stent, they were pretty clear that I am an aspirin a day for the rest of my life.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:26 pm

LordMortis wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:09 pm Anti intinflamatories are the exact thing they give to people with compromised immune systems.

Apparently it is the opposite. NSAIDs are linked to reduced immune response.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:10 pm

Defiant wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:19 pm
The Department of Health and Human Services experienced a form of cyberattack Sunday night related to its coronavirus response in an attempt to slow down its operations, administration sources confirmed to ABC News Monday.
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/cyberattack-h ... ories.html

Sickening.

I see what you did there.

Probably some of Trump's Russian friends.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:11 pm

Paingod wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:47 pm
Defiant wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:38 pm If this paper is correct, it's some positive news for when the temperature starts to rise:

High Temperature and High Humidity Reduce the Transmission of COVID-19
So we just need to wait for April and then this won't be a problem anymore?

No, if it does abate during the summer, it will most likely come back next flu season, it will become seasonal, hence the need for a vaccine going forward.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:16 pm

Grifman wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:11 pm
Paingod wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:47 pm
Defiant wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:38 pm If this paper is correct, it's some positive news for when the temperature starts to rise:

High Temperature and High Humidity Reduce the Transmission of COVID-19
So we just need to wait for April and then this won't be a problem anymore?
No, if it does abate during the summer, it will most likely come back next flu season, it will become seasonal, hence the need for a vaccine going forward.

Oh, I know. I was jabbing (stabbing?) at Trump with that.

Mancheeto wrote:“By April, you know, in theory, when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:21 pm

malchior wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:29 am Also, ouch!

https://twitter.com/JeremyKlemin/status ... 2521859073

That's fake. The original post on Facebook is still up (as of when I ran it down yesterday, anyway), is in Norwegian, and makes no mention of the USA.

GungHo · Post by **GungHo** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:22 pm

malchior wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:48 pm Projection.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 0669699073

Just had a very good tele-conference with Nations’s Governors. Went very well. Cuomo of New York has to “do more”.

Tweet deleted. Was trump suggesting Cuomo 'do more' to combat the democratic hoax? I'm confused.

We were just told we're go ng to be able to sign up for a 1 continuing education webinar RE: coronavirus. That's good right?

Scheduled date? 3/25

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:35 pm

Max Peck wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:21 pm
malchior wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:29 am Also, ouch!

https://twitter.com/JeremyKlemin/status ... 2521859073
That's fake. The original post on Facebook is still up (as of when I ran it down yesterday, anyway), is in Norwegian, and makes no mention of the USA.

It actually was real however they've since edited the message since it was mistranslated. It was about "poor" transportation infrastructure (e.g. you need a car often). I'll dig it back up. I checked it at the time and it was still there. I read about the change and lo and behold it was different.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:29 pm

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:29 pm

https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/ ... 94125?s=20

link

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:38 pm

He started the presser by congratulating the press corps for practicing good social distancing....

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:43 pm

Lord help us

https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/ar ... ts-serious

Read it to disbelieve it.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:47 pm

Stupid people gonna stupid.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:51 pm

One question - isn't the coronavirus technically not airborne? My understanding is that it's spread primarily by 'droplets' from when an infected person coughs. Which still makes it bad to be in enclosed spaces with large groups of people, because anyone in the group who is coughing will spread it to nearby people, and spread it via coughing on things, or coughing on their hands and touching things, etc.

Is that right? That's my understanding of the 6 ft distance rule, for example.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:05 pm

Public health / communicable disease has very specific terminology. These terms are often confused/misused, which is understandable as they sound similar.

Direct transmission, droplet spread is how cornoavirus is spread. These are small droplets of mucous/saliva that have a relatively short existence in the environment. They come flying out of your nose/mouth and arc through the air, striking surfaces and/or falling to flat areas (counter tops, hand rails, tables, door handles, etc...). Maintaining distance is about lowering risk of incidental exposure to saliva/mucous as someone is speaking and heaven forbid they're unable to cover a cough or sneeze.

Indirect transmission, airborne is how something like measles, TB or chicken pox can be spread. Someone coughing or sneezing and they leave the room. Hours later someone else wanders into that room and breathes in the particles that have been floating around in the air. Much more persistent in the environment and can be spread through ventilation systems. Environmental variables also change things (humidity, sunlight) but overall much more concerning.

It's a matter of where the organisms are being ejected from (top vs bottom of lungs), persistence in the environment and overall risk. It's also why we're way more concerned about someone with the measles wandering through an airport than someone with influenza.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:21 pm

What’s the risk for someone, say, coming into a conference room with a wooden table about 24 hours after a later confirmed case of coronavirus? Assuming they’re not licking the table.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:27 pm

BI

President Donald Trump on Monday told a group of governors that they should get vital equipment to treat coronavirus patients on their own.

"Respirators, ventilators, all of the equipment — try getting it yourselves," Trump told the governors during a phone call, The New York Times reported. "We will be backing you, but try getting it yourselves. Points of sales, much better, much more direct if you can get it yourself."

The Times reported that Trump's directive took some of the governors by surprise given that states are already working overtime to contain the spread of the novel coronavirus and are hoping for more federal aid.

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:34 pm

trumpadministration mitigation strategy appears to be the 'thinning the herd' approach

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:39 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:27 pm BI

President Donald Trump on Monday told a group of governors that they should get vital equipment to treat coronavirus patients on their own.

"Respirators, ventilators, all of the equipment — try getting it yourselves," Trump told the governors during a phone call, The New York Times reported. "We will be backing you, but try getting it yourselves. Points of sales, much better, much more direct if you can get it yourself."

The Times reported that Trump's directive took some of the governors by surprise given that states are already working overtime to contain the spread of the novel coronavirus and are hoping for more federal aid.

Nothing like pitting all the states against each other too. Will the Feds have to step in to mediate eventually?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:40 pm

Zarathud wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:21 pm What’s the risk for someone, say, coming into a conference room with a wooden table about 24 hours after a later confirmed case of coronavirus? Assuming they’re not licking the table.

What kind of weird meetings do you have where you have to clarify no table-licking is happening? I kinda want to be there!

I know there are studies and FB posts circulating now screaming about how the virus persists for 24 hours on a tabletop or 3 days on cardboard, but this single study everyone is sharing is a laboratory evaluation (i.e. controlled conditions). It reinforces how important wiping down surfaces should be, but AFAIK overall risk for the type of exposure you're describing (being in a room 24 hours after someone with coronavirus was in it) are low. When you add in HVAC systems, sunlight, competing environmental organisms, everything changes.

So my professional opinion (based on what I've seen) - low risk.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:42 pm

malchior wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:39 pmNothing like pitting all the states against each other too. Will the Feds have to step in to mediate eventually?

The President that dragged his feet on helping Puerto Rico is refusing to act on federal level and help states in need?

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:54 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:42 pm
malchior wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:39 pmNothing like pitting all the states against each other too. Will the Feds have to step in to mediate eventually?
The President that dragged his feet on helping Puerto Rico is refusing to act on federal level and help states in need?

Maybe he's not really racist, he's just grossly incompetent?

Nah, it's both.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:09 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Zarathud wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:21 pm What’s the risk for someone, say, coming into a conference room with a wooden table about 24 hours after a later confirmed case of coronavirus? Assuming they’re not licking the table.
What kind of weird meetings do you have where you have to clarify no table-licking is happening? I kinda want to be there!

Estate planning involves equal parts empathy, law, psychology, and obsequiousness. People with money expect you to kiss ass, especially when talking about who inherits their stuff. Which is why my best clients are my dead clients.

Thanks. It’s not ok to relax until my pretend internet expert assesses the risk.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:17 pm

This weekend I talked to my parents about the virus.

They're elderly (80ish) but sharp and smart. However, as lifelong movement conservatives (since Goldwater), they've spent the past couple of decades moving to a Fox-and-internet-based media diet.

Dad is currently undergoing chemo. He mentioned that he would be staying home from church but that mom would be going. (Their church is one they helped start from nothing some years back, so they're very invested in it. It now boasts a 1,000-seat auditorium with two full services every Sunday morning, although I assume at least some people are staying home these days.)

I tried my gentle best to persuade them that mom could easily become the vector that brings the virus home to dad. They heard me, and I think they both stayed home yesterday. But, honestly, it's a scary revelation: these two intelligent adults just weren't processing the reality of the situation because (it was clear) their chosen media was obscuring it for them.

I won't be surprised to see Red America suffering disproportionately from this crisis.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:25 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:00 pm
Paingod wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:17 am
Jeff V wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:52 am
Defiant wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:33 am
$iljanus wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:32 am
Paingod wrote:There was one thought this morning that I woke up with that made me sit bolt upright and start sweating.

Where is Ruth Bader Ginsburg and have we gotten her into a bubble yet. Trump cannot have a third Supreme Court justice.
Yeah, she needs to be quarantined in a negative pressure room and give opinions remotely! And keep Sotomayor safe for good measure.

Also Breyer, who's 81.
I thought the precedent was now "no new justices within a year of an election".
That was Mitch's thinking to thwart Obama. I'm sure he's had a change of heart by now.
He's already publicly stated that his actions were not precedent. He'd ram through a SCOTUS appointment made by Trump even if it came a week before Trump was to leave office.

https://twitter.com/hillhulse/status/12 ... 00768?s=20

link

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:34 pm

Holman wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:17 pm I tried my gentle best to persuade them that mom could easily become the vector that brings the virus home to dad. They heard me, and I think they both stayed home yesterday. But, honestly, it's a scary revelation: these two intelligent adults just weren't processing the reality of the situation because (it was clear) their chosen media was obscuring it for them.

I won't be surprised to see Red America suffering disproportionately from this crisis.

Haven't seen anything here that I haven't seen on my mother's news sources a day or two later. Maybe they're just at peace with whatever will be will be Que Sera Sera. Republicans are older by and large so I would expect more of them to die, but not because of their sources of information.

So does the left have RBG ensconced in a bubble yet?

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:43 pm

I hope when Mitch's time comes its horrible, slow, and painful ....and makes him mute and unable to move during it.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:07 pm

Daehawk wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:43 pm I hope when Mitch's time comes its horrible, slow, and painful ....and makes him mute and unable to move during it.

Locked-in-syndrome + stick him in front of a tv to watch MSNBC all day + watching the GOP be torn apart would be delightful.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:31 pm

Holman wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:17 pm I tried my gentle best to persuade them that mom could easily become the vector that brings the virus home to dad. They heard me, and I think they both stayed home yesterday. But, honestly, it's a scary revelation: these two intelligent adults just weren't processing the reality of the situation because (it was clear) their chosen media was obscuring it for them.

I 100% get it. My parents are in their 70s and I've been talking to them about this for weeks. Two weeks ago, I'm telling them to start picking up a few extra things (canned goods, TP, any medical/personal care items) every trip. Last week, I offered to get whatever they were missing. Just spoke to them tonight and they're still stuck on "We need milk and OJ...and toilet paper." They've been hearing me, but it's like they're living in a bubble or just not processing the enormity of what's happening. They'd likely be driving to a casino tomorrow if they were open. For whatever reason, things just aren't sinking in for them. They acknowledge it's "crazy in places" but they don't seem to recognize the imminent threat looming.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:34 pm

Holman wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:25 pm
Sen McConnell and other Senate Republicans have been reaching out to fed judges nominated by Presidents Reagan and Bush I and II to say if you are going to retire, the next few months would be a good time to do it.
link

I do not have the words for this, at least none that I should be sharing. Suffice to say, the day will come where there is a celebration from coast to coast. I hope that day is soon.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:48 pm

President Trump said the coronavirus outbreak could last into the summer, perhaps as long as August, an indication that the widespread nationwide slowdown in response to the virus is just beginning. Mr. Trump also didn't rule out further quarantines or curfews in the future, as he rolled out new 15-day guidelines for everyday American life.

"They think August, it could be July," he said at a press briefing Monday, referring to members of the White House task force. "Could be longer than that. But I've asked that question many, many times."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-says ... or-august/

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:55 pm

He is genuinely - and I mean this from the bottom of my heart - a giant sack of shit. I absolutely cannot imagine an individual worse than Trump currently acting in his capacity. So much worse. This is going to get so.much.worse.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:21 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Holman wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:25 pm
Sen McConnell and other Senate Republicans have been reaching out to fed judges nominated by Presidents Reagan and Bush I and II to say if you are going to retire, the next few months would be a good time to do it.
link
I do not have the words for this, at least none that I should be sharing. Suffice to say, the day will come where there is a celebration from coast to coast. I hope that day is soon.

I see this as a rare ray of good news. McConnell knows his time is up. The GOP days are numbered.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:37 pm

Scoop20906 wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:21 pm
Smoove_B wrote:
Holman wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:25 pm
Sen McConnell and other Senate Republicans have been reaching out to fed judges nominated by Presidents Reagan and Bush I and II to say if you are going to retire, the next few months would be a good time to do it.
link
I do not have the words for this, at least none that I should be sharing. Suffice to say, the day will come where there is a celebration from coast to coast. I hope that day is soon.
I see this as a rare ray of good news. McConnell knows his time is up. The GOP days are numbered.

Maybe I'm grading McConnell on a shitty curve at this point, but this doesn't really bother me. I really wish Ginsburg had retired in 2014, for example, and I wouldn't have been upset if Obama administration folks had reached out to her to gently suggest that.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:40 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:05 pm Public health / communicable disease has very specific terminology. These terms are often confused/misused, which is understandable as they sound similar.

Direct transmission, droplet spread is how cornoavirus is spread. These are small droplets of mucous/saliva that have a relatively short existence in the environment. They come flying out of your nose/mouth and arc through the air, striking surfaces and/or falling to flat areas (counter tops, hand rails, tables, door handles, etc...). Maintaining distance is about lowering risk of incidental exposure to saliva/mucous as someone is speaking and heaven forbid they're unable to cover a cough or sneeze.

Indirect transmission, airborne is how something like measles, TB or chicken pox can be spread. Someone coughing or sneezing and they leave the room. Hours later someone else wanders into that room and breathes in the particles that have been floating around in the air. Much more persistent in the environment and can be spread through ventilation systems. Environmental variables also change things (humidity, sunlight) but overall much more concerning.

It's a matter of where the organisms are being ejected from (top vs bottom of lungs), persistence in the environment and overall risk. It's also why we're way more concerned about someone with the measles wandering through an airport than someone with influenza.

Thank you.

So as our forum coronavirus expert, one follow-up. If someone is not coughing at all, could you theoretically contract coronavirus from them? I understand that asymptomatic folks can pass it along, but I'm just curious how. If they're not coughing, then would they have to sneeze on you? Breathe on you? Breathe on their hand, then shake your hand?

Partly I'm curious, but also I have to run through these explanations with my kids when I repeatedly tell them why the can't have playdates right now.