Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

[Grifman]

Unfortunately we will need to bailout a number of corporate bad actors in the end to keep people employees. That said, at a minimum, any govt aid should be in the form of loans with interest or stock investments by the govt. No more socializing losses while privatizing gains.

[Octavious]

I'm pretty sure if you cut someone hours to zero they can get unemployment. That would be crazy if you couldn't.

[malchior]

Unfortunately we will need to bailout a number of corporate bad actors in the end to keep people employees. That said, at a minimum, any govt aid should be in the form of loans with interest or stock investments by the govt. No more socializing losses while privatizing gains.

This is pretty much the only reason I am ok with a blanket money drop. At least it isn't driven by cronyism. But still that is only $250B of a $1T bill. I expect the other $750B will be a devil's brew of giveaways.

[stessier]

Do we know anything about the "money drop"? Make it an advance on our taxes like the last time would be monumentally stupid - which is why I'm sure that's what they are talking about.

[Skinypupy]

Gaslighting in it's purest form here, folks.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 8708839424

I always treated the Chinese Virus very seriously, and have done a very good job from the beginning, including my very early decision to close the “borders” from China - against the wishes of almost all. Many lives were saved. The Fake News new narrative is disgraceful & false!

[malchior]

And he probably believes it after a round of watching Fox News to soothe his fragile ego.

[LordMortis]

Gaslighting in it's purest form here, folks.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 8708839424

I always treated the Chinese Virus very seriously, and have done a very good job from the beginning, including my very early decision to close the “borders” from China - against the wishes of almost all. Many lives were saved. The Fake News new narrative is disgraceful & false!

I was just coming to post something similar.

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-sho ... t-n1162056

"I have seen that where people actually liked [Monday's tone], but I didn't feel different. I've always known this is a real -- this is a pandemic. I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic.... I've always viewed it as very serious."

vs

"The Fake News Media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything within its semi-considerable power (it used to be greater!) to inflame the CoronaVirus situation, far beyond what the facts would warrant. Surgeon General, 'The risk is low to the average American.'"

[Grifman]

I'm pretty sure if you cut someone hours to zero they can get unemployment. That would be crazy if you couldn't.

Marriott employees are reporting that they are being denied in some states due to this.

[LawBeefaroni]

I'm pretty sure if you cut someone hours to zero they can get unemployment. That would be crazy if you couldn't.

Marriott employees are reporting that they are being denied in some states due to this.

It's possible it wasn't the intent of Marriott to skimp on unemployment insurance. In many cases it's simply the only way to keep jobs.

I spoke with one of our consultants from a massive firm (Fortune 100 financial services company) and he said they went 100% WFH yesterday with a lot of mandatory PTO or unpaid leave. The alternative was to let people go. There was a lot of bitching that ended quickly when everyone realized the binary choice.

[Isgrimnur]

In a case of corporate generosity, Marriott is telling the govt that employees that have been laid off are still working for them, but have just been assigned “0 hours”. Hence this doesn’t impact the their future unemployment insurance rate - because these people aren’t really unemployed - and also making laid off workers ineligible for unemployment insurance. So nice of them, hope they don’t ask for any bail out money.

Texas

To be eligible for benefits based on your job separation, you must be either unemployed or working reduced hours through no fault of your own.

[Kraken]

Unfortunately we will need to bailout a number of corporate bad actors in the end to keep people employees. That said, at a minimum, any govt aid should be in the form of loans with interest or stock investments by the govt. No more socializing losses while privatizing gains.

Amen to that. If your company spent all of its cash on stock buybacks, maybe the government gets stock for its bailout money.

[Grifman]

Ok the outlines of the Republican Senate plan of about one trillion dollars are coming together, and so far, I like most of what I am hearing:

1) $500 billion for INDIVIDUALS, based upon income and family size
2) $300 billion for small business - less than 500 employees - loans to be made by private companies (banks, etc) based upon payroll but 100% guaranteed by the federal govt. The only problem is that there is a 6 week cap - I don't think that will be enough given what I am reading, but it's a good start. The other problem is that these are loans - most small business don't have large margins so how will they pay this back?
3) The last $200 billion is targeted towards industries impacted - airlines, hotels, etc. No mention of cruise lines. There would be restrictions on executive pay but I did not read of any others.

Of course this has to be negotiated with the Democratic House so there's that. I suspect the Democrats will be ok with 1) and 2). Those are directly helping average Americans. There will be pushback on 3) though. Democrats will insist on more than just executive pay/bonus restrictions. But the fact that Republicans have already proposed some restrictions shows they know it can't be BAU (Bailout As Usual), so I suspect there will be further compromises and restrictions here.

Further info here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... omic-plan/

[LawBeefaroni]

There was discussion of the small business loans being zero interest with conditions. No idea if that is in the current proposal.

[El Guapo]

Democrats should insist on election protection as part of any stimulus bill.

Makes a ton of sense to me. This may be the Democrats best (maybe only) chance to ensure a fair vote this November.

[LawBeefaroni]

Democrats should insist on election protection as part of any stimulus bill.

Makes a ton of sense to me. This may be the Democrats best (maybe only) chance to ensure a fair vote this November.

What would election protection look like? I mean how would it stop an assault on democracy that couldn't be overridden by bigger assault on democracy?

[Smoove_B]

I said it earlier, if states aren't doing things right now to get a mail vote system in place for everyone, that is a problem.

[LordMortis]

1) $500 billion for INDIVIDUALS, based upon income and family size

It's never me. Oddly enough. I'm more OK with it now than I was in the 2008 era (and all the times before that, for that matter). Back then, it was a bunch of bad actors at all levels that contributed to the collapse and it made me resentful. This is a much different story. My sense of community responsibility and reaction is way different.

[El Guapo]

Democrats should insist on election protection as part of any stimulus bill.

Makes a ton of sense to me. This may be the Democrats best (maybe only) chance to ensure a fair vote this November.

What would election protection look like? I mean how would it stop an assault on democracy that couldn't be overridden by bigger assault on democracy?

The basics of a bill to protect the 2020 election are straightforward. It should require every state to allow both early voting (with drop-off ballots) and voting by mail, and it should include federal funding for a rapid switch to those systems in the coming months. About 30 states already allow something known as “no-excuse absentee voting,” which is essentially early voting. Another five states — Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah and Washington — conduct elections largely or entirely by mail.

Both systems work well, removing many of the hassles, like long waits in line, that can keep Americans from voting. Mail voting has been especially successful at increasing turnout, as I explained in a 2018 column. During a pandemic, voting by mail and early voting have the crucial added benefit of allowing people to cast a ballot with minimal human contact.

It’s true that there is one downside to early voting: The possibility that new information will emerge in the final few days of a campaign, after some people have already voted. But this downside is quite modest during a general election in our highly polarized country. Not many people will be changing their mind in the final few days. And during a national crisis, there are not perfect solutions to every problem.

Senators Amy Klobuchar and Ron Wyden, both Democrats, have written a good starting-point bill. It would require all states to hold at least 20 days of early voting, as well as to allow anybody to request a mail-in ballot. The federal government would pay for the changeover, which would probably cost around $1 billion, relatively little compared with other emergency bills now being discussed.

There are still some technical details to address. I think that — for 2020 only — the bill should also mandate states to create drop-off boxes at polling places, where people could bring the ballot they requested by mail. This would reduce the number of completed ballots that might arrive after Election Day, because of postal delays. Hasen, the election law scholar, raises a couple of other issues, including steps to ensure ballot security, in a Slate column.

But all of these issues are manageable. The key is for Congress — ideally, Democrats and Republicans together — to act now to protect the country’s ability to hold a fair election this year.

A core point would be to allow safe voting under various coronavirus scenarios, both because that's important in its own right, and also to avoid Trump using coronavirus diffuclties as an excuse to curtail / postpone / fuck with voting.

It's also a reasonable time to work in ballot security measures that McConnell otherwise hasn't been considering.

[Smoove_B]

I have it from a very reliable source that the feds are pushing insurance companies to cover things related to this outbreak that were excluded and/or not covered. Like for example, let say business interruption insurance. Sounds great except covering something you weren't billing premiums for is a problem. Cash injections for everyone!

[Isgrimnur]

I doubt any tears are being shed for the actuaries.

[LordMortis]

The cracks are turning in to holes

https://www.kentucky.com/news/coronavir ... 64651.html

Kentucky’s phone line and website for filing unemployment insurance claims were not functioning Tuesday and have not since Monday morning, when Gov. Andy Beshear ordered all restaurants and bars to close dine-in services in an effort to curb the new coronavirus.

The errors come amid a massive spike in unemployment claims, from an average of 2,000 claims a week before the virus outbreak to 9,000 claims processed on Tuesday alone.

To combat the influx of claims, officials issued new protocols for Kentucky residents who want to file for unemployment insurance.

The state is asking people to follow a schedule based on the first letter of their last name if they plan to file for unemployment this week.

On Wednesday, the state asks that only people whose last name begins with A-I apply for benefits; on Thursday, J-R; on Friday, S-Z.

People who missed their designated day should apply on Friday.

“We’re doing everything that we can to fix it — putting new procedures in place so that individuals who lost their job this week can make sure that they file claims on time,” Josh Benton, deputy secretary of the Kentucky Education and Workforce Development Cabinet, said during a press conference Tuesday.

[Smoove_B]

There were ~15,000 claims made in NJ yesterday; it crashed the system.

Also, This pandemic will expose who we are as a country:

While social distancing is our best tool for slowing the spread of this virus, it’s also likely to create what my Vox colleague Ezra Klein has called a “loneliness epidemic.” In a fragmented society like ours, asking people to isolate themselves for an extended period will be hard on vulnerable populations, like older people and those with disabilities and existing medical conditions.

To reduce those effects, we’ll need what Eric Klinenberg, a sociologist at New York University, calls “social solidarity.” We’ll have to care about more than “our own personal security,” he wrote in a New York Times article. We’ll have to knock on our older neighbor’s door, call friends and loved ones, volunteer to deliver food to people who can’t leave their homes, and whatever else we can do to be of use to the people around us.

But the reality, Klinenberg says, is that American culture will make this kind of collective effort difficult. We live in a deeply individualistic society, and that way of thinking is corrosive to the cooperation we now need. Yet despite all that, Klinenberg believes there are many things you can do individually to make a significant difference.

Probably ignorant, but there's such a huge potential for innovation right now. This will absolutely be a war-time effort moving forward.

[gilraen]

https://twitter.com/danagould/status/12 ... 11493?s=20

Spoiler:

An emergency bill that should have passed last week is further delayed because Mitch McConnell wanted a long weekend and now Rand Paul wants attention.

Do the people of Kentucky think they’re immune?

Senate Coronavirus vote delayed after Rand Paul pushes doomed amendment

[Daehawk]

Another bad day for the DOW so far....

19,123.90 −2,113.48 (9.95%)

I need to watch and see if they all clap at the end of trading.

[El Guapo]

Another bad day for the DOW so far....

19,123.90 −2,113.48 (9.95%)

I need to watch and see if they all clap at the end of trading.

Well, one question is what is equilibrium for the Dow for an economy under large scale quarantines (and, you know, subject to a pandemic)?

[Isgrimnur]

What makes you think there is one?

[Daehawk]

Coronavirus shutdowns provide unintended climate benefits: cleaner air, clearer water

In Venice, the often murky canals recently began to get clearer, with fish visible in the water below. Italy’s efforts to limit the coronavirus meant an absence of boat traffic in the city’s famous waterways. And the changes happened quickly.

Countries that have been under stringent lockdowns to stop the spread of the coronavirus have experienced an unintended benefit. The outbreak has, at least in part, contributed to a noticeable drop in pollution and greenhouse gas emissions in some nations.

[LawBeefaroni]

Coronavirus shutdowns provide unintended climate benefits: cleaner air, clearer water

In Venice, the often murky canals recently began to get clearer, with fish visible in the water below. Italy’s efforts to limit the coronavirus meant an absence of boat traffic in the city’s famous waterways. And the changes happened quickly.

Countries that have been under stringent lockdowns to stop the spread of the coronavirus have experienced an unintended benefit. The outbreak has, at least in part, contributed to a noticeable drop in pollution and greenhouse gas emissions in some nations.

It's like... we're the Earth's coronavirus and coronavirus is the Earth's vaccine.

[Keanu Reeves woah]

[Kraken]

Another bad day for the DOW so far....

19,123.90 −2,113.48 (9.95%)

I need to watch and see if they all clap at the end of trading.

Well, one question is what is equilibrium for the Dow for an economy under large scale quarantines (and, you know, subject to a pandemic)?

At the low point of the Great Recession the Dow fell as low as 8,700, so I'm going with that.

[malchior]

Trump promises Cuomo a hospital ship. Predictably...it is in the middle of maintenance and unavailable for weeks. I predict Trump will claim that Cuomo was lying and he never promised help.

https://twitter.com/OKnox/status/1240300571996889089

WOW. Cuomo announces that Trump is sending the USNS Comfort "hospital ship," with a total patient capacity of 1,000, to help New York.

https://twitter.com/rtiron/status/1240339988602146818

Breaking: The Comfort hospital ship won’t be able to go to NYC for weeks, @ChiefPentSpox says. Ship is in maintenance in Norfolk, Va., and Pentagon is now expediting maintenance

[El Guapo]

Coronavirus shutdowns provide unintended climate benefits: cleaner air, clearer water

In Venice, the often murky canals recently began to get clearer, with fish visible in the water below. Italy’s efforts to limit the coronavirus meant an absence of boat traffic in the city’s famous waterways. And the changes happened quickly.

Countries that have been under stringent lockdowns to stop the spread of the coronavirus have experienced an unintended benefit. The outbreak has, at least in part, contributed to a noticeable drop in pollution and greenhouse gas emissions in some nations.

It's like... we're the Earth's coronavirus and coronavirus is the Earth's vaccine.

[Keanu Reeves woah]

This is kind of like...a happening.

[Daehawk]

More dolphins are back in the bay too having a great time.

[Daehawk]

Another bad day for the DOW so far....

19,123.90 −2,113.48 (9.95%)

I need to watch and see if they all clap at the end of trading.

Well, one question is what is equilibrium for the Dow for an economy under large scale quarantines (and, you know, subject to a pandemic)?

At the low point of the Great Recession the Dow fell as low as 8,700, so I'm going with that.

What happens if the DOW gets to 0? Do they just keep digging past that?

[stessier]

Another bad day for the DOW so far....

19,123.90 −2,113.48 (9.95%)

I need to watch and see if they all clap at the end of trading.

Well, one question is what is equilibrium for the Dow for an economy under large scale quarantines (and, you know, subject to a pandemic)?

At the low point of the Great Recession the Dow fell as low as 8,700, so I'm going with that.

3/1/2009 I see a low of 6469.

[El Guapo]

Another bad day for the DOW so far....

19,123.90 −2,113.48 (9.95%)

I need to watch and see if they all clap at the end of trading.

Well, one question is what is equilibrium for the Dow for an economy under large scale quarantines (and, you know, subject to a pandemic)?

At the low point of the Great Recession the Dow fell as low as 8,700, so I'm going with that.

What happens if the DOW gets to 0? Do they just keep digging past that?

No, then we all form Mad Max gangs.

[El Guapo]

Also, the big 3 automakers have halted production. I would have thought that moving to all robots would have prevented that.

[GungHo]

Dang it. Y'all post too fast.

Of course the hospital ship thing was a lie. I was actually thinking 'wow trump finally, FINALLY did something. And it was good!'. So of course it's a lie. Like everything else with him.

But definitely time to sell my 401k right now, yeah? (Jk)

The other crazy thing with all of the market insanity is...where is safe? Bonds give u fractions of pennies on the dollar, gold is wildly fluctuating, and good luck picking a winner stock(though I was reading the market is being a little more reasonable of late and recognizing there will actually be some 'winners' in this).

Being a know- nothing schmuck I guess I'll just sit and watch.

[LawBeefaroni]

Also, the big 3 automakers have halted production. I would have thought that moving to all robots would have prevented that.

Supply chain. Plus probably a huge drop in demand.

[Daehawk]

Another bad day for the DOW so far....

19,123.90 −2,113.48 (9.95%)

I need to watch and see if they all clap at the end of trading.

Well, one question is what is equilibrium for the Dow for an economy under large scale quarantines (and, you know, subject to a pandemic)?

At the low point of the Great Recession the Dow fell as low as 8,700, so I'm going with that.

What happens if the DOW gets to 0? Do they just keep digging past that?

No, then we all form Mad Max gangs.

Damn I dont even have any leathers anymore.

[YellowKing]

I'm fairly certain I've been on the USNS Comfort. It stopped in port and I got to tour it with my granddad when I was younger. If it wasn't the Comfort then it was the Mercy, but "Comfort" rings a bell more as the name. Definitely made an impression on me as I remember the tour vividly some 30-odd years later.