Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

[Kraken]

This was posted on the FB page of one of my most conservative acquaintances this morning. He’s a former neighbor that I haven’t seen in probably 15 years. I only keep connected with him to get a glimpse into the mindset of MAGA-land.

(snip)

Crazy is scariest when it's lucid.

You think you could break out your editor's pen and make that dribbling wall of text readable?

Usually when I encounter sentiments like those, they're full of misspellings, arbitrary capitalization, and random punctuation (or none at all). That fellow's a veritable right-wing Shakespeare.

[Defiant]

Also I dont get that video. Who is in the wrong there?

Mostly it's showing how shitty and unproductive some local leaders are being in the face of this crisis.

[Defiant]

Here's How New York Hospitals Could Decide Who Gets a Ventilator — and Who Doesn't


The tl/dw version is that they prioritize patients who aren't well enough to pull through without ventilators, but are well enough to be likely to survive with ventilators. And that it wouldn't be the front line doctors that make these decisions, but a committee with some distance from them that would.

It's an awful decision to have to make.

[Unagi]

Also I dont get that video. Who is in the wrong there?

Mostly it's showing how shitty and unproductive some local leaders are being in the face of this crisis.

In fair and honest contrast, the Gov. of Illinois, Pritzker, was great in the news conference where he delivered the 'shelter in place' order.
I'm not one to quickly give a ton of credit to politicians, but he spoke with honesty and transparency....

IMO - It's nice to listen to, If any would care to.

[Daehawk]

They need to get money out now. Lots of it and to everyone. If they could do that then later on the businesses and workers will still be there and the money will return. But failing to get lots of money out to everyone now means the businesses and workers might not be there later and there will be nothing but a pile of shit of a country left.

Also just in case this is the end then if ya got someone to sex it up with Id suggest doing that

[Skinypupy]

This was posted on the FB page of one of my most conservative acquaintances this morning. He’s a former neighbor that I haven’t seen in probably 15 years. I only keep connected with him to get a glimpse into the mindset of MAGA-land.

(snip)

Crazy is scariest when it's lucid.

That what scares me the most. Knowing that I’m surrounded by lots of people with that exact mindset makes me concerned what would happen if shit really went sideways (worse than it already has).

There’s lots of things I love about living here. Being among the uber-Mormon conservative assholes like that are definitely not one of them. Those folks ain’t right in the head.

[Zenn7]

I dont get why Amtrak doesn't make money. Its the same with the USPS. They charge. they have tons of customers. So wheres the money going? Pockets Im assuming.

Without the USPS, how much do you think it would cost you to get a letter from TN to CA?

Free included with my monthly internet. Im saying they charge a fee that they themselves set and have customers yet they dont make anything? That has to be either an outright lie or they are totally incompetent.

Think the USPS has to get approval to raise the price of stamps. On the whole, they have to keep their prices for other things competitive with UPS/Fed Ex/others or they won't have customers. So their prices are not entirely in their control. Amtrak has similar issues. Unlike cable monopolies, that are supposed to keep their prices in check, I believe USPS and Amtrak have actual governmental controls on their pricing.

[Zenn7]

This was posted on the FB page of one of my most conservative acquaintances this morning. He’s a former neighbor that I haven’t seen in probably 15 years. I only keep connected with him to get a glimpse into the mindset of MAGA-land.

(snip)

Crazy is scariest when it's lucid.

That what scares me the most. Knowing that I’m surrounded by lots of people with that exact mindset makes me concerned what would happen if shit really went sideways (worse than it already has).

There’s lots of things I love about living here. Being among the uber-Mormon conservative assholes like that are definitely not one of them. Those folks ain’t right in the head.

Great letter! I'm sure we all recall how the left was pushing all that removal of our rights after 9/11 (thank god for the conservative right and their Patriot act to protect our rights)! And Nazi Germany, the communist state, no wonder they got along so well with Russia!

[pr0ner]

If there was ever a tweet to sum up 2020 media reporting of everything that's going on, I think this is it.

https://www.twitter.com/ddale8/status/1 ... 6850665474

[raydude]

Well, the impact of the Coronavirus just got real for our household. The Franciscan monk who blessed our house, was my wife's patient in the past, and gave my youngest daughter her baptism, became the first known death in DC from the coronavirus.
I didn't interact with him much other than the blessing and baptism. But I remember he used to send boxes of Florida oranges to our house every Christmas as a thank you to my wife for providing him excellent care.

I didn't want to believe it but then I checked on the plaque that has our house blessing and his name, and it was there.
God damn fucking Trump and the fucking coronavirus.

[Kraken]

We must have an Amtrak thread somewhere down in the cellar, but if we're going to derail (heh) this thread, I'll just point out that every other form of transportation in this country gets government subsidies, from airports to highways. Amtrak makes an operating profit on its busy Northeast Corridor, but is required to maintain huge losers like its transcontinental lines. And USPS is only unprofitable because of its mandate to prefund retirement benefits for 75 years. No other company or government entity has that requirement. And lest you think it's prudent for USPS to set those billions aside for people who haven't even been born yet...the money gets diverted into the government's general fund.

[malchior]

I dont get why Amtrak doesn't make money. Its the same with the USPS. They charge. they have tons of customers. So wheres the money going? Pockets Im assuming.

Without the USPS, how much do you think it would cost you to get a letter from TN to CA?

Free included with my monthly internet. Im saying they charge a fee that they themselves set and have customers yet they dont make anything? That has to be either an outright lie or they are totally incompetent.

Think the USPS has to get approval to raise the price of stamps. On the whole, they have to keep their prices for other things competitive with UPS/Fed Ex/others or they won't have customers. So their prices are not entirely in their control. Amtrak has similar issues. Unlike cable monopolies, that are supposed to keep their prices in check, I believe USPS and Amtrak have actual governmental controls on their pricing.

It's funny that these two are mentioned since the reason why they don't make money is clear. It is Congress's fault largely.

USPS services the entire nation no matter how cost effective it is at the same rate as urban areas where costs may be lower to provide service. It also has much higher retirement costs as Congress mandates they make a certain level of payments (called prefunding) into their pension plan. This has taken a lot of control out of "managements" hands about how to keep the business running. Trump has also contributed a little by undermining the USPS/Amazon relationship which was good for both. Amazon however was moving away no matter what...Trump just accelerated it.

Amtrak has similar issues. Congress mandates them to run many routes which are unprofitable at artificially low rates. These route are partially subsidized by Congress. It also pushed unfunded safety initiatives on them like PTC after an accident in California. The big crash in PA about 5-6 years ago would have been prevented if those safety controls were in place. The controls were accelerated with partial funding after the PA crash and those efforts are largely complete. However, it didn't help the financial position of Amtrak.

[Daehawk]

Theres a thing called the TP Challenge now. Celebs and young folk using rolls to practice soccer moves...using them like the old hacky sack crap. Id like to smack them all. I cant even find any to buy.

Oh and looky here. Its that Lindsey Graham fucktard.... Lindsey Graham, Mark Meadows Pushing Trump to Oppose Cash Payouts for Coronavirus Relief

Graham, who on Tuesday said “it won’t help the economy just throwing money at a problem,” did not return a request for comment. He then pushed back on the reporting, tweeting that he is “willing to pay 75 percent of people’s income up to $80,000 to get us through.”

[malchior]

I actually prefer the UK plan. You keep the businesses running, ready to get back into action when the crisis passes. Otherwise, who knows how bad it'll be. Dropping set amounts into people's hands? You have no idea if they'll spend it or not. Pay their salary and its fairly close to the norm even if spending isn't 100% on par.

[Daehawk]

If they want to give me $1,000,000 Ill sign a contract that I'll spend it

Maybe its me but out of all the emails Ive gotten trying to reassure me of what they are doing to help during the coronavirus the one I just got from my mortgage place sounded simply as "Hey we're open keep sending us your money. Its ok...many ways to give us the money. Be sure and send us the money. Ok dont forget your payment."

[Zarathud]

It’s not about free money. It’s about the cost of getting shut down by government action to serve public health. By that measure, Daehawk, you should get NOTHING because you don’t have a business, don’t work, and don’t often get out of the house.

If your only inconvenience is not getting toilet paper, count your blessings. People are getting fired, getting sick, and even dying. Staying home isn’t a sacrifice until you no longer have a job.

[Pyperkub]

It’s not about free money. It’s about the cost of getting shut down by government action to serve public health. By that measure, Daehawk, you should get NOTHING because you don’t have a business, don’t work, and don’t often get out of the house.

If your only inconvenience is not getting toilet paper, count your blessings. People are getting fired, getting sick, and even dying. Staying home isn’t a sacrifice until you no longer have a job.

Since the fed rate is effectively zero, corporations can get zero interest loans to stay in business. People can't.

[Daehawk]

So I should get nothing even though Ive had to use up what little I do get buying stuff I need and have no money at all for 2 weeks until I get a little more? Thats kinda insane. Plus it isn't just about unemployed its about the economy too. Id contribute by spending the cash to help me survive. I dont see big corporations and needing anything. They should have big pockets and insurances and plans.

Also not sure what one of my neighbors are doing. They are a couple with a kid left at home and one away. They have 2 cars. But for over a week now the cars start coming in around 4 and 5 and theres now 5 there each night. I guess its family staying there but wouldn't that be just what you dont want?

[LawBeefaroni]

It’s not about free money. It’s about the cost of getting shut down by government action to serve public health. By that measure, Daehawk, you should get NOTHING because you don’t have a business, don’t work, and don’t often get out of the house.

If your only inconvenience is not getting toilet paper, count your blessings. People are getting fired, getting sick, and even dying. Staying home isn’t a sacrifice until you no longer have a job.

Since the fed rate is effectively zero, corporations can get zero interest loans to stay in business. People can't.

Corporations are people.

That aside, corporations don't get zero interest loans when the Fed rate is at zero. They issue debt at low rates. Banks get the 0 interest loans at the overnight window to provide liquidity.



However, zero interest loans to small business would be welcome right now.

[Daehawk]

So far I dont see anyone getting free money. They already said up to $1200 from your own future tax refunds. They're simply giving you your own money from the future where you'll get nothing. As business as normal the GOP want to pour money into their cronies pockets so they'll pour some back into theirs while ignoring the people who make the corps and the economy.

[Defiant]

The Trump Department of Justice has asked Congress to craft legislation allowing chief judges to indefinitely hold people without trial and suspend other constitutionally-protected rights during coronavirus and other emergencies, according to a report by Politico’s Betsy Woodruff Swan.

While the asks from the Department of Justice will likely not come to fruition with a Democratically-controlled House of Representatives, they demonstrate how much this White House has a frightening disregard for rights enumerated in the Constitution.

DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights During Coronavirus Emergency
The Department of Justice has secretly asked Congress for the ability to detain arrested people “indefinitely” in addition to other powers that one expert called “terrifying”

[malchior]

Beat me to it. I didn't know which thread to park this in. Probably should start thinking about a Rise of the Trump Autocracy thread soon.

[pr0ner]

I am surprised there are no comments on Rashida Tlaib's $1 TRILLION coin plan.

[malchior]

I am surprised there are no comments on Rashida Tlaib's $1 TRILLION coin plan.

Well mostly because she can't even smell the food being served up at the 'plutocrat' table in the Senate right now.

[malchior]

https://twitter.com/blainecapatch/statu ... 3092481030

i'm sure i'm not the first person to point out the irony of America being bankrupted by an illness

[El Guapo]

I dont get why Amtrak doesn't make money. Its the same with the USPS. They charge. they have tons of customers. So wheres the money going? Pockets Im assuming.

Amtrak makes money on the northeast corridor. But they're also required to run routes across the country that lose money. If Amtrak were a private business it would cover many fewer routes.

[Kraken]

So far I dont see anyone getting free money. They already said up to $1200 from your own future tax refunds. They're simply giving you your own money from the future where you'll get nothing. As business as normal the GOP want to pour money into their cronies pockets so they'll pour some back into theirs while ignoring the people who make the corps and the economy.

You are still fixating on proposals that haven't passed. Let's wait and see what the House has to say about it and how loud their voice is. Odds are that the GOP will get phat loot for bankers and corporations, and the Democrats will cobble together a lifeline for displaced workers. Since you're neither a worker nor displaced, I wouldn't get my hopes up...but there could be some crumbs for the disabled and retirees, too. They are all under pressure to do something fast, so this shouldn't drag on past next week.

[LawBeefaroni]

I dont get why Amtrak doesn't make money. Its the same with the USPS. They charge. they have tons of customers. So wheres the money going? Pockets Im assuming.

Amtrak makes money on the northeast corridor. But they're also required to run routes across the country that lose money. If Amtrak were a private business it would cover many fewer routes.

Same with USPS. If they were private they wouldn't be doing the money-losing routes, or they'd charge the appropriate fee to get a letter to BFE. They also wouldn't be prefunding their pension and retirement plans by whim of Congress. Hell, they wouldn't offer a pension anymore.

[Blackhawk]

FWIW, Daehawk, I'm in a similar situation to you. I desperately need the money, having spent a considerable amount on stuff that I can't touch. I spent about three weeks food budget equivalent to prepare for this thing and still need to provide normal food on top of it, plus I'm two months away from a permanent ~20% income reduction. But I'm better (we both are better off) off than someone with a family to feed who doesn't have any savings and suddenly loses 100% of their income. I very badly need that money, but those people are the priority.

[Daehawk]

What was special about the 2008 and 2009 stimulus? We each got a check in those years. More in 2008 than 2009. I had nothing then either. Less.

[Blackhawk]

What was special about the 2008 and 2009 stimulus? We each got a check in those years. More in 2008 than 2009. I had nothing then either. Less.

That was a stimulus check. It was to stimulate the economy. Get people spending, get businesses making money as part of an attempt to get us out of recession. This is survival money, and should first go to those whose survival is in question. Our income sucks, but it is reliable.

[Zarathud]

It should be to cover being unable to work due to government action. If your income stops, you can’t pay your bills without going to work.

At the sane time, the production snd supply chains are shut down. So you see scarcity — that’s the double whammy that WILL put the world into a recession. The economy got hit in the head (demand) and swept off its feet (supply).

With Trump being unable to explain what’s going on, and McConnell being an opportunist, we’re more likely to see Congress throw money to supporters and loud interest groups. A leader (like Bush/Obama) would come up with a plan on how to keep forward momentum. But Trump really has no clue.

[em2nought]

A leader (like Bush/Obama) would come up with a plan on how to keep forward momentum.

Longing for the days of George Bush and Dick Cheney?

[Trent Steel]

A leader (like Bush/Obama) would come up with a plan on how to keep forward momentum.

Longing for the days of George Bush and Dick Cheney?

Yes. And I’m not laughing.

I’d take Homer Simpson and Krusty the Clown right now.

[Grifman]

I want to say I was encouraged last night. I have local family owned pizza joint that I frequent. Everyone recognizes me and I talk with the owner some when I visit. I decided last night to order a take out pizza from them to support them. When I went by I talked some with the owner and he said the response from customers had been amazing. Tons of people had been ordering take out (they had a number of pizzas they were preparing at 5:30 pm already) and that he and his staff were really touched by the support customers were giving them. Just wanted to share something positive during this time.

[Defiant]

https://twitter.com/tomaspueyo/status/1 ... 8764438529

[raydude]

A leader (like Bush/Obama) would come up with a plan on how to keep forward momentum.

Longing for the days of George Bush and Dick Cheney?

Yes. And I’m not laughing.

I’d take Homer Simpson and Krusty the Clown right now.

Ditto. At least Homer and Krusty listen to their advisers (Lisa, Marge, Bart) and act in others interests when in a crisis.

[Blackhawk]

What was special about the 2008 and 2009 stimulus? We each got a check in those years. More in 2008 than 2009. I had nothing then either. Less.

That was a stimulus check. It was to stimulate the economy. Get people spending, get businesses making money as part of an attempt to get us out of recession. This is survival money, and should first go to those whose survival is in question. Our income sucks, but it is reliable.

And just to be fair, there are two factors in play here. The first is that people with employment income are losing that income. That only affects taxpayers for the most part, and people like me and Daehawk are safe. The second factor is that life is getting more expensive. It's getting harder to find what's needed, requiring substitutes and more expensive options, which destroys tight budgets, plus emergency supplies are a huge expense, kids need fed (my food cost skyrocketed from this alone), and so on. That second factor affects everybody, both taxpayers and non, and is what we'll likely need eventual help on. Still not as much as those affected by both problems.


------The below skewed a little off-topic, sorry--------------

Personally, I'm looking at a more complicated problem. Michelle works. She works in a place that depends on tourism, so the chance of her being laid off is high. Unfortunately, prior to us getting back together she was a years-long housewife. Simply put, she didn't pay taxes in 2018. If they base this off of 2018's taxes, we're losing work income and still aren't eligible for the relief. And in six weeks Ian (now 18) graduates high school, which immediately ends his portion of my benefits. His autism and related problems have gotten severe enough that he won't be able to work or continue in college, probably for years. He's in a program that helps to get him ready for a part-time job after graduation (probably ~10-15 hours/week), but that's been canceled now, too. We've been told that he needs to go on disability himself by 4 (!) different professionals, but that takes years and the Social Security office is shuttered anyway. We used our emergency fund (aka my credit card) to get through the winter, and were counting on a tax check to replenish it, but Ian turning 18 plus Michelle working in 2019 means that isn't happening, costing us ~$6,000+ that we usually get, and is something we discovered about a week before the virus hit. That will leave us with ~$1200/month for four people. That's food and rent and nothing else with nothing to fall back on. I've done everything I can to cut back. I've refunded Kickstarters and returned 'luxury' items purchased before we found out about the tax check, I've canceled subscriptions and so forth, but it's a drop in the bucket.

It's terrifying enough that I'm losing sleep and can't focus enough to get things done. But it is also an unknown. She could end up keeping her job and a decent relief plan could come through and we'd be fine (which is why I've turned down help - we aren't sure we'll need it.) Or we could be choosing between rent and food before this is over. The worst part is that I have no idea which is looming on the horizon, but boy is it looming.

[Smoove_B]

Another really good article on what we're dealing with here:

Some experts have written about a Catch-22 we may be facing. Essentially, as I understand it, with a certain level of social distancing, the virus could still come back. And with an extreme amount of social distancing over a period of time, long enough to get a vaccine, the economy and society would be irreparably harmed. How do you view that Catch-22, if you agree that it is one, and is there a solution?

I do. Here is the idea: those are your two terrible choices. We can just say we can’t do extreme social distancing for eighteen months because it will destroy our economy and the fabric of our society, so forget it, and then you are going to have hundreds of thousands—if not millions—of people dying, and many, many more times that getting very sick. And that has its own huge economic and social consequences. So it is not a your-money-or-your-life situation. We can either take a big economic hit, which has huge health effects, or create terrible health outcomes, which has huge economic effects. I think we are between two terrible places.

Regarding social distancing and the near future:

But the other thing is that, if we slow this down enough, we essentially get where China is today, where they are not having more infections—but the moment they let their foot off the brakes the infection will come back. And what a lot of people are predicting is that, if we slow things down enough and get testing, we can maybe get into the summer, and maybe during the summer months the virus will slow down and there will not be as much infection. But it will come back with a vengeance in the fall. That is what happened with the 1918 flu, and a lot of people are worried about that.

What we are saying is to use the time that social distancing is buying you to essentially ramp up production of personal protective equipment and ventilators, and get ubiquitous fast testing available, so that if we can make it into the summer months without too much damage we can use that time to get ready for the fall. And then, in the fall, when the virus comes back, if you have aggressive testing you can identify people quickly, you can isolate them, you can quarantine them, you can do the contact tracing. Essentially, you get a do-over from the time that we lost in January. But we will be much, much better prepared, and when we are better prepared we can stay ahead of it. You won’t have to have mass school closings. You can imagine in some communities there might be outbreaks that get bad, and you shut down schools for two weeks, you test everybody and isolate people, and then you can open the schools back up. So we may have some of those periods during the fall, but we don’t have to go through what we are going through now, where we have extended periods of social distancing and really destroying our economy. So we think there is a way to thread this needle.

Is it too early for scotch?

[Defiant]

https://twitter.com/charlesornstein/sta ... 0249785353