[Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

[Daehawk]

No they actually said it in the press conference on tv. 2 have died but only the resident from here is counted. Anyone who dies in a hospital in TN and is from out of state they dont count that here and its counted in their home state as a death there.

All these numbers has me wondering. What is the flu was counted like this every year. Infections , deaths, locations on tv each night the entire flu season. I wonder if people would see it in a different light? be more careful and wary of it. Actually get your shots?

[LawBeefaroni]

They can't do anything about it now except try to ease the symptoms and make you comfortable.

For severe symptoms hospitals can put you on ventilators with oxygen, if they have them. This can save your life.

[em2nought]

The proper way to wash your hands
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... =emb_title

[Kurth]

They can't do anything about it now except try to ease the symptoms and make you comfortable.

For severe symptoms hospitals can put you on ventilators with oxygen, if they have them. This can save your life.

Definitely possible and effective in some cases, but has anyone seen figures on how effective? I’ve heard that by the time you require a ventilator for COVID-19, your chances of pulling through and recovering are not good. I’d be interested to know how many patients who are put on a ventilator end up recovering.

[gameoverman]

So here's positive(?) news:

48% of Diamond Princess passengers were asymptomatic.

I'm thinking this is way, way widespread than people think. If you take the above into account, that means we don't have 61,000 cases, it means we have at least 120,000 as asymptomatic people are not being tested in most locations. But it also means it's half as dangerous.

Another issue that makes me think it's maybe even 10 times that number is there's an awful lot of celebrities infected for only .0007% of the world being infected.

The fact that we don't have tests everywhere is criminal. Until we have good tracking data nearly everything we are doing is worthless.

This is why it was so comical to me back when people were still talking about 'containment'. Look at how many countries it was in at the end of January. Hell yeah this thing has been widespread for a long time. Testing might still be helpful. If we know hospitals will be overwhelmed by a surge in cases, and testing shows up which areas are most likely to have surges, theoretically we could shift resources there ahead of the surge. That would require coordinated efforts though, and I think the President and his people are working at cross purposes to everyone else.

[Daehawk]

The proper way to wash your hands
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... =emb_title

Well Im screwed then because I cant talk with that accent too well.

Anddddddddd........................

Another issue that makes me think it's maybe even 10 times that number is there's an awful lot of celebrities infected for only .0007% of the world being infected.

Idris Elba hits back at Cardi B’s coronavirus comments: “Such stupidness”

Idris Elba has responded to accusations made by Cardi B, claiming celebrities are being paid to say they have contracted COVID-19.

“Such stupidness. People want to spread that as if it’s news. That’s stupid. It’s the quickest way to get people sick because there’s no benefit to me and Sabrina sitting here saying we’ve got it if we ain’t got it. I don’t even understand the logic of that.”

I mean just look at this picture. Who ya gonna trust?

[LawBeefaroni]

They can't do anything about it now except try to ease the symptoms and make you comfortable.

For severe symptoms hospitals can put you on ventilators with oxygen, if they have them. This can save your life.

Definitely possible and effective in some cases, but has anyone seen figures on how effective? I’ve heard that by the time you require a ventilator for COVID-19, your chances of pulling through and recovering are not good. I’d be interested to know how many patients who are put on a ventilator end up recovering.

When you're at that point your chances of pulling through without intervention are pretty much zero. The odds of pulling through with intervention are far better. And increase the fewer co-morbidities you have and the healthier your were going in.

We're taking coughing up blood, dangerously low oxygen levels, all sorts of nasty stuff. Everyone saying it's just a tough flu hasn't seen the extreme cases.

[Daehawk]

Id sure like numbers for things like who has done great but had other problems, who did great older, who did worse younger. this thing is all over the place from didn't know i was sick to dead.

[wonderpug]

Id sure like numbers for things like who has done great but had other problems, who did great older, who did worse younger. this thing is all over the place from didn't know i was sick to dead.

Here's some data along those lines:

[Kraken]

I read that hospitals are quietly considering whether they can legally impose Do Not Resuscitate orders on covid patients. Ah, here it is.

[Kurth]

They can't do anything about it now except try to ease the symptoms and make you comfortable.

For severe symptoms hospitals can put you on ventilators with oxygen, if they have them. This can save your life.

Definitely possible and effective in some cases, but has anyone seen figures on how effective? I’ve heard that by the time you require a ventilator for COVID-19, your chances of pulling through and recovering are not good. I’d be interested to know how many patients who are put on a ventilator end up recovering.

When you're at that point your chances of pulling through without intervention are pretty much zero. The odds of pulling through with intervention are far better. And increase the fewer co-morbidities you have and the healthier your were going in.

We're taking coughing up blood, dangerously low oxygen levels, all sorts of nasty stuff. Everyone saying it's just a tough flu hasn't seen the extreme cases.

Yeah, but that’s a pretty crappy answer, if I’m understanding what you’re saying.

Of course, if the chances of a successful outcome are near zero without a ventilator, a subsequent 5% chance of survival is a very significant improvement. But it still pretty much sucks, and it would certainly be legitimate to question whether a good use of our resources right now is in securing additional ventilators, no?

[Daehawk]

Good chart Wonderpug. Now if they could just tell me why patient A has the symptoms of a mild cold while patient B died and are the same age with no other factors that would be helpful.

[em2nought]

Stole this from a post at yahoo by Mecham

If medical facilities become overwhelmed, then knowing what to do at home to help will be useful. Here is a medical paper on CoV19, see section "6. Treatment and Control"
(go through this and highlight what you CAN do yourself. It is intended for a hospital environment, but there are still things you can do at home.)
https://mmrjournal.biomedcentral.com/ar ... 020-0233-6
(save this document so you have a copy, just in case.)

If you have pneumonia, sleep on your stomach. This alone reduces mortality rates by 30-40% because in the prone position, lung compression is decreased, secretions drain better, and collapsed alveoli reopen.
Source:https://digitalcommons.ric.edu/cgi/view ... ontext=etd

Here are some additional proactive tips coming from several doctors on coronavirus. If you have a compromised immune system or just want to boost it against this virus here are some proactive measures that can help according to pulmonologist Dr. Seheult. & John Campbell. Make sure you are not Zinc deficient and start a daily dose 10-50 micrograms (400-2000 IU). of Vitamin D, get some daily sun in. Getting more than 50 micrograms reduces the positive effect. Taking this amount reduces respiratory infection by 50%. During the beginning of the H1N1 outbreak many nurses recall docs prescribing Vit D.

Also quercetin was mentioned as a supplement. There are researchers right now developing a quercetin treatment for COVID-19 it is a supplement you can get very cheap. It was used against SARS, Ebola and Zika. Either way consult with a physician before starting any supplement. Quercetin dihydrate has the best bioavailability.

If you have a dry throat/cough make sure you drink enough water as the virus thrives on dry throats.

The only true way to protect yourselves is to presume everyone is infected. Containment will prevent infections and save lives. Use strict hand hygiene. Stay away from crowds. Use a paper towel to turn off faucets and open doors with. Do not go out unless you have to. Leave your shoes at the door. Wash your hands before leaving work and as soon as you get home. Wipe down supplies you buy (milk cartons, water jugs, etc.) with Clorox wipes or alcohol 70%. Clean all door handles, light switches, surfaces with antiviral/bacterial cleaners. Don't hug or shake hands. Spray down mail or packages with Lysol then sanitize with a UV-C cleaner http://uvcmobilekleaner.pg-blog.com/

UV C light is germicidal because it inactivates microorganisms by destroying nucleic acids and disrupting their DNA with its short wavelength. Companies like Germ Falcon and Xenex are using UV C light emitting robots on airplanes and in hospitals against coronavirus COVID 19 currently

Based on a paper on March 10, 2020 titled High temperature and high humidity reduce the transmission of COVID-19 source:https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm ... id=3551767 What they found out is higher temperatures and higher humidity significantly reduces the spread of the infection. So for every one degree increase in temperature there is a decrease of R that means effective reproduction. Singapore Malaysia and Thailand had much smaller outbreaks than South Korea Iran China and Italy.

There is a big difference in their temperature and humidity in these countries versus Italy currently and NY. If you are running heat at home make sure you don't have too much dry air/ low humidity. A personal humidifier something like this works with water http://humidifierkit.pg-blog.com/ These zen humidifiers/purifiers were mostly used in the summer but actually provide more humidity versus cooling.

NY https://www.nytimes.com/video/nyregion/ ... d=pl-share

[dbt1949]

Here in Arkansas there is a 1 in 4 chance of being tested positive for those who have taken the test.

[LawBeefaroni]

They can't do anything about it now except try to ease the symptoms and make you comfortable.

For severe symptoms hospitals can put you on ventilators with oxygen, if they have them. This can save your life.

Definitely possible and effective in some cases, but has anyone seen figures on how effective? I’ve heard that by the time you require a ventilator for COVID-19, your chances of pulling through and recovering are not good. I’d be interested to know how many patients who are put on a ventilator end up recovering.

When you're at that point your chances of pulling through without intervention are pretty much zero. The odds of pulling through with intervention are far better. And increase the fewer co-morbidities you have and the healthier your were going in.

We're taking coughing up blood, dangerously low oxygen levels, all sorts of nasty stuff. Everyone saying it's just a tough flu hasn't seen the extreme cases.

Yeah, but that’s a pretty crappy answer, if I’m understanding what you’re saying.

Of course, if the chances of a successful outcome are near zero without a ventilator, a subsequent 5% chance of survival is a very significant improvement. But it still pretty much sucks, and it would certainly be legitimate to question whether a good use of our resources right now is in securing additional ventilators, no?

Same resource question could be asked of lung cancer drugs that extend life by a 6 months or a LVAD implant for a morbidly obese 65-year-old diabetic. It's a good question but not really the right time to debate an answer.

If ventilators are a predicted bottleneck we should get more ventilators. Debate the moral and ethical implications of extending life under various scenarios when we have to or when we have the luxury.

[soulbringer]

I read that hospitals are quietly considering whether they can legally impose Do Not Resuscitate orders on covid patients. Ah, here it is.

By the time we get our protective equipment on and start appropriate life saving measures, its likely that the patient will be brain dead anyway even if we get them back. Its getting uglier and uglier by the day. And all the talk of ventilators ventilators ventilators dont mean squat if you dont have the staff to manage the ventilators and believe me there is a shortage of staff trained to adequately maintain those ventilators.

[LawBeefaroni]

I read that hospitals are quietly considering whether they can legally impose Do Not Resuscitate orders on covid patients. Ah, here it is.

By the time we get our protective equipment on and start appropriate life saving measures, its likely that the patient will be brain dead anyway even if we get them back. Its getting uglier and uglier by the day. And all the talk of ventilators ventilators ventilators dont mean squat if you dont have the staff to manage the ventilators and believe me there is a shortage of staff trained to adequately maintain those ventilators.

It depends where you are. We have MDs and techs sitting at home waiting for the call up. All our non-clinical nurses are now off their regular jobs and are in the COVID labor pool. They are not ER trained but in the event of a system overload they are ready. That's why we're losing a boatload of revenue every day, because we stopped all non urgent/emergent services in order to keep staff levels up in preparation. What we don't have is a proportionate supply of PPE or ventilators. True we don't need them right now. We will if the models are correct. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

[Kurth]

They can't do anything about it now except try to ease the symptoms and make you comfortable.

For severe symptoms hospitals can put you on ventilators with oxygen, if they have them. This can save your life.

Definitely possible and effective in some cases, but has anyone seen figures on how effective? I’ve heard that by the time you require a ventilator for COVID-19, your chances of pulling through and recovering are not good. I’d be interested to know how many patients who are put on a ventilator end up recovering.

When you're at that point your chances of pulling through without intervention are pretty much zero. The odds of pulling through with intervention are far better. And increase the fewer co-morbidities you have and the healthier your were going in.

We're taking coughing up blood, dangerously low oxygen levels, all sorts of nasty stuff. Everyone saying it's just a tough flu hasn't seen the extreme cases.

Yeah, but that’s a pretty crappy answer, if I’m understanding what you’re saying.

Of course, if the chances of a successful outcome are near zero without a ventilator, a subsequent 5% chance of survival is a very significant improvement. But it still pretty much sucks, and it would certainly be legitimate to question whether a good use of our resources right now is in securing additional ventilators, no?

Same resource question could be asked of lung cancer drugs that extend life by a 6 months or a LVAD implant for a morbidly obese 65-year-old diabetic. It's a good question but not really the right time to debate an answer.

If ventilators are a predicted bottleneck we should get more ventilators. Debate the moral and ethical implications of extending life under various scenarios when we have to or when we have the luxury.

In a scenario where you have unlimited resources, sure, debate efficacy and ethics later. But that’s not where we’re at. In the current situation, where we are facing multiple drastic shortages in resources needed to fight this thing, I hope someone is taking a really hard look at the moral and ethical implications of focusing on ventilators so much.

[Isgrimnur]

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best

...Mom?

[Blackhawk]

Here in Arkansas there is a 1 in 4 chance of being tested positive for those who have taken the test.

If they're like everywhere else, that's probably because they're only testing those who they know probably have it.

[Xmann]

I read that hospitals are quietly considering whether they can legally impose Do Not Resuscitate orders on covid patients. Ah, here it is.

By the time we get our protective equipment on and start appropriate life saving measures, its likely that the patient will be brain dead anyway even if we get them back. Its getting uglier and uglier by the day. And all the talk of ventilators ventilators ventilators dont mean squat if you dont have the staff to manage the ventilators and believe me there is a shortage of staff trained to adequately maintain those ventilators.

It depends where you are. We have MDs and techs sitting at home waiting for the call up. All our non-clinical nurses are now off their regular jobs and are in the COVID labor pool. They are not ER trained but in the event of a system overload they are ready. That's why we're losing a boatload of revenue every day, because we stopped all non urgent/emergent services in order to keep staff levels up in preparation. What we don't have is a proportionate supply of PPE or ventilators. True we don't need them right now. We will if the models are correct. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

This is pretty much the position we are in. I'm at a 700 bed facility and we are sitting at only 75% occupancy. We are usually near full capacity most days. Feels like a ghost town with no visitors.

I'm putting nurses on call or calling them off daily. I'm not naive to think this could turn around and get ugly at a minutes notice. But generally speaking we are doing really well compared to other parts of the country. I really feel for those struggling and having to make tough decisions on how to provide care for patients and protect staff at the same time.

[Kasey Chang]

Seems DOJ is watching and acting against fraudsters... At least one website claiming to have COVID-19 vaccine is facing C&D

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-files-its-first-enforcement-action-against-covid-19-fraud

[coopasonic]

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best

...Mom?

No, mom is more like "Fuck it we all gotta go one day." Did I mention she is 71 years old with all the lifelong smoker lung issues? On the plus side she lives in a town of 600 that nobody actually wants to visit and rarely ventures out.

[dbt1949]

Oh, she lives in a big city.

[Max Peck]

https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/status ... 8571211776

[Moat_Man]

That's why we're losing a boatload of revenue every day, ....

It is so strange to hear someone in healthcare talk, or care, about revenue. I can't imagine how frightening that must be to people in your country without the means to pay. :shudder:

[Daehawk]

Some more stimulus info.

https://www.wrcbtv.com/story/41940935/c ... ed-to-know

[hitbyambulance]

read a prediction today that 75% of the independently-owned restaurants in this city 'will never open again'

[Z-Corn]

Damn, and that's a Food City too...

[em2nought]

read a prediction today that 75% of the independently-owned restaurants in this city 'will never open again'

Am I evil for using my gift cards while I still can?

[Paingod]

read a prediction today that 75% of the independently-owned restaurants in this city 'will never open again'

Or, in a different light, approximately 1 job will be available for every 4 people who were in food services.

[ImLawBoy]

read a prediction today that 75% of the independently-owned restaurants in this city 'will never open again'

Or, in a different light, approximately 1 job will be available for every 4 people who were in food services.

Except that there will be more restaurants opening to meet the demand from people wanting to eat out. It might not happen immediately, but new restaurants will open to replace the guys that couldn't hold out.

[LawBeefaroni]

That's why we're losing a boatload of revenue every day, ....

It is so strange to hear someone in healthcare talk, or care, about revenue. I can't imagine how frightening that must be to people in your country without the means to pay. :shudder:

Revenue keeps our doors open. Without it, we close. Simple as that.

Revenue being income, not profit, of course.

[Kraken]

read a prediction today that 75% of the independently-owned restaurants in this city 'will never open again'

Or, in a different light, approximately 1 job will be available for every 4 people who were in food services.

Except that there will be more restaurants opening to meet the demand from people wanting to eat out. It might not happen immediately, but new restaurants will open to replace the guys that couldn't hold out.

In the Before Time, restaurants were suffering from a serious labor shortage, so having a surplus will be a welcome change for those that can reopen. Since the majority that can't reopen will still be configured and equipped as restaurants, new owners should be able to bring them back online fairly quickly. In the city, where the restaurants are trendy, concepts have a short lifespan anyway (5 years is considered a long run) and a renaissance will be welcome. I don't mean to minimize the pain and dislocation of those who won't make it, but the industry should bounce back.

[gameoverman]

read a prediction today that 75% of the independently-owned restaurants in this city 'will never open again'

I really do feel bad for the owners and workers in these businesses. It's one thing to go out of business due to poor service, or maybe because the food was mediocre, or even because of things like a bad location. To get wiped out due to no fault of your own is a bitter pill to swallow.

[IceBear]

So a worker in one of the grocery stores about 20 minutes from my house came up positive for Covid-19 on the 19th (luckily we haven't shopped there). The news reported that he died today...in his 40s with no underlying health conditions. Yeah....panicking more than before now

[Daehawk]

This stuff makes me think of the world wars.

[hitbyambulance]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/25/busi ... fever.html

the sociological findings and ramifications from this cooping-up is going to be fascinating

[The Meal]

USA #1!

[gameoverman]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/25/busi ... fever.html

the sociological findings and ramifications from this cooping-up is going to be fascinating

I’m even getting annoyed with the dog, being in one place.

He should just tell the dog to walk around that way the dog won't always be in one place and it won't be so annoying.