Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

[Grifman]

Biggest farce since Milli Vanili. The numbers don't add up. I'm surprised how many are happy the village is burning down.

Exactly what numbers don't add up?

[El Guapo]

EDIT: And I see there are now 20 states that have created four different regional partnerships. Amazing, amazing times.

what's the fourth? i know of the western, northeastern and midwestern-ish ones.

Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont, at least as of two days ago.

Are there flags yet? Should I be joining a militia?

[Kraken]

EDIT: And I see there are now 20 states that have created four different regional partnerships. Amazing, amazing times.

what's the fourth? i know of the western, northeastern and midwestern-ish ones.

Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont, at least as of two days ago.

Are there flags yet? Should I be joining a militia?

There are jackets for those who know the secret elbow bump.

[$iljanus]

Given how physicians handle antibiotics, who could have seen this coming?

While Ligia’s symptoms were consistent with those of COVID-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus, she was never tested for the virus, her brother-in-law, Lee Levitt, told NBC News. Ligia received the drug after speaking by phone with her doctor, Levitt said. She was never evaluated in person and received no heart screening or warning about the potential side effects.

In summary:

A New York woman with coronavirus symptoms died last week after being prescribed a drug cocktail with known cardiac side effects, and family members say she was not tested for COVID-19 or for heart problems before receiving the medication.

I wonder where her doctor got the idea to try this route? I'm sure we'll find out as the investigation continues.

“I’m not looking at it one way or another. But we want to get out of this. If it does work, it would be a shame if we didn’t do it early. What do I know? I’m not a doctor. But I have common sense. The FDA feels good about it, as you know, they approved it.”

“We don’t have time to say, Gee, let’s take a couple of years and test it out, and let’s go and test with the test tubes and the laboratories. It doesn’t kill people.”

[stessier]

My governor (SC) has said the end is in sight and our economy should be humming by the end of May and nearly back to normal by the end of June. He said this after getting off the phone with Trump. I'm so relieved!

Even knowing what is going to happen, I was surprised how strong of an appeal the idea of returning to normalcy was.

[malchior]

My governor (SC) has said the end is in sight and our economy should be humming by the end of May and nearly back to normal by the end of June. He said this after getting off the phone with Trump. I'm so relieved!

Even knowing what is going to happen, I was surprised how strong of an appeal the idea of returning to normalcy was.

I think everyone wants an easy way out. It is why we keep hearing about miracle drugs, simple life saving techniques, and magical thinking over and over yet the death toll trend continues. If there really a simple way out this would end. You might even get an OK summer out of it. Who knows but you're right this is going to not go the way they think it will.

[Formix]

Again, I feel like this means that I'm a terrible person, but I feel like If one side clearly and loudly says that re-opening is a terrible idea, and people will die, and the other says acceptable losses. Well, okay then have at it and we'll see who's right. It will be a terrible bloody I told you so, and ultimately playing into Putin's chaos seeking, but fine. You want to send people to die for $$, let's be crystal clear about who owns the end results, and do it.

[Paingod]

Again, I feel like this means that I'm a terrible person, but I feel like If one side clearly and loudly says that re-opening is a terrible idea, and people will die, and the other says acceptable losses. Well, okay then have at it and we'll see who's right. It will be a terrible bloody I told you so, and ultimately playing into Putin's chaos seeking, but fine. You want to send people to die for $$, let's be crystal clear about who owns the end results, and do it.

If it was possible to guarantee everyone who was okay with a quarantine and isolation would get top-tier care instead of all the chuckleheads who think this is a hoax, I'd say go for it. Problem is a lot of people who want to do the right thing will end up dying because the hospitals are choked with people who thought it was a cold.

If you could separate the two groups, you've got my approval too. I also feel like it means I'm a terrible person, but I'm tired of feeling like I'm stuck in a car with a maniac who's mashing his foot down on the gas pedal and fighting me for control of the steering wheel so he can veer towards a brick wall and commit suicide. The only reason I haven't let him is because I can't get out.

[malchior]

Again, I feel like this means that I'm a terrible person, but I feel like If one side clearly and loudly says that re-opening is a terrible idea, and people will die, and the other says acceptable losses. Well, okay then have at it and we'll see who's right. It will be a terrible bloody I told you so, and ultimately playing into Putin's chaos seeking, but fine. You want to send people to die for $$, let's be crystal clear about who owns the end results, and do it.

The problem's with this approach are pretty clear: death is irreversible and they won't own the results. They are fact free. That is why many of us are not buying their death cult bullshit. When they press the issue, well then I guess we get to see how that goes for them but we'll suffer for their idiocy again. Their increasing agitation is why I see the beginnings of a political crisis brewing fwiw. This whole thing is stressing the many problems we faced pre-coronavirus. Heck Governor Murphy of NJ was on Carlson last night. I don't know why to be honest because the interview is a trainwreck. Murphy talking sense and Carlson talking sociopath. I can't figure out why Murphy did it.

[malchior]

China has revised their death numbers upward of 50% in Wuhan. It won't throw much sand on the China is lying fire but the reasons are sounds. Deaths at home. Deaths that were never registered at hospitals, etc. Official tally at at about 4K from about 2.6K.

[RunningMn9]

There is so much WTF in this story that it is unimaginable. 68 deaths in one place and it went unnoticed including 2 of the nurses. They were tipped off to the whole thing because they moved a body into a shed? This needs to be investigated. Emphasis added below for heaps of WTF.

Chalk one up for RM9’s home town! Ugh. That’s the facility my wife’s grandmother was in during her final years with Alzheimer’s. I went to high school with Eric (the police chief). WTF indeed.

[RunningMn9]

This would barely have been a blip 100 years ago. It's a big deal because we value lives more.

It’s also relative in the sense that 100 years ago, this would be taking out a much higher number of people. We are able to deal with things in ways we couldn’t 100 years ago, so when we are faced with something like this, it’s a big deal.

And we are much more aware, which forces us to care more (to your point).

[Skinypupy]

Trump invites all the GOP Senators to join the economic recovery team - except Mitt Romney.

He is such a petulant child.

[malchior]

Trump invites all the GOP Senators to join the economic recovery team - except Mitt Romney.

He is such a petulant child.

Yeah I dropped this into the reprisal thread. For good housekeeping'w sake.

Anyway, the irony is that Romney legitimately is great at turning around businesses. He is exactly the type of person we need. Instead we'll get death cult MAGAts. Expectations are beyond low.

[malchior]

There is another interlocked crisis brewing as well. Local/state revenues issues are beginning to rear its head. Governor Murphy is looking at a bond issue to deal with the collapse in revenue. This will put pressure on states. Southern states in particular are heavily consumption tax based (e.g. Texas) are exposed and may drive them to prematurely re-open their economies.

[Paingod]

...may drive them to prematurely re-open their economies.

The best part is that this isn't something that can be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear - and it absolutely will not stop, ever, until we have a vaccine.

Toss open the doors to your economy and watch as everyone emerges and then heads to the hospitals a week later.

Starts with FOX News trying to get Fauci to say that this will "disappear" like SARS did; he refuses. Dr. Phil says people die all the time (to things like car crashes, tobacco, and swimming pools) and we're not closing the country to stop that. Dr. Oz says we should kill 2% to 3% of the population so we can get the kids back in school. Why are these "doctors" wanting people to die for the economy? Best guess is that the GOP is willing to gamble lives to get the economy back online so Trump looks better come November and it can help him win. In short - people need to die so Trump can be re-elected.

[malchior]

...may drive them to prematurely re-open their economies.

The best part is that this isn't something that can be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear - and it absolutely will not stop, ever, until we have a vaccine.

Toss open the doors to your economy and watch as everyone emerges and then heads to the hospitals a week later.

We are seeing this in NJ. My wife's factory is still running. Non-stop. They make soaps/shampoos/etc. And people are quitting left and right. Yet what we are also seeing is that people are working no matter what and they are getting sick. They are under incredible stress. One of compounders just called my wife and said that his two neighbors just died. And this is in a state with a 'lock down'. Look what happened to Smithfield in South Dakota. I can't see this not getting worse. So you can open your economy, you can keep running, but eventually it will shut you down anyway. And we are probably going to learn that the hard way.

[Paingod]

I can't see this not getting worse.

Yeah.

A few weeks ago people were saying "If it looks like we didn't need to lock down, that's because it worked." ... so as infection rates in the US are slowing down, people who refuse science are saying things are magically getting better, and now we've got leaders saying "Hey, look, things aren't as bad as they could have been, so let's get back out there."

Another instance where I'm glad I'm in a state that's not run by insane people. Granted, we flip-flop on that. Our last governor would have still refused to have people stay home for any reason; he was a mini-me to Trump. He loved to cut public health workers and refuse to fill the openings. Right now we've got a Democrat who's not afraid to save some lives and work with other blue states, but she failed to rebuild the slashed departments fast enough.

[malchior]

Baker in MA and some of the midwestern states (e.g. DeWine in OH) are showing there are competent R governors who get it. The linchpins of disaster if and when it comes may very well be the deep red ones who are strongly tied to the cult.

[stessier]

Dr. Oz says we should kill 2% to 3% of the population so we can get the kids back in school.

He actually said that it would be additional deaths. So if there 100,000 dead, re-opening would lead to 2-3,000 more deaths.

I still find it horrible, but I think the difference is meaningful.

Edit: Also, it should be mentioned that his opinion was based on an OPINION piece out of England based on a model of Britain and their results. So it's really, really weak if it's meaningful at all.

[Unagi]

Dr. Oz says we should kill 2% to 3% of the population so we can get the kids back in school.

He actually said that it would be additional deaths. So if there 100,000 dead, re-opening would lead to 2-3,000 more deaths.

I still find it horrible, but I think the difference is meaningful.

Edit: Also, it should be mentioned that his opinion was based on an OPINION piece out of England based on a model of Britain and their results. So it's really, really weak if it's meaningful at all.

Well, one certainly doesn't need to have originally thought he was talking about 2% of the population to have had their jaw drop when he made that statement.
The difference is only in magnitude - it's not all that 'meaningful', IMO. When a "doctor" starts to give economic advise that hinges on killing more people.... lol...

[Holman]

Re-opening schools at this point is crazy talk. Many areas have not even reached their peak, and sending kids back to packed rooms so they can all bring the virus home to parents and relatives is an absurdly dangerous idea. And then there's the fact that schools run on adult teaching/staffing/supply/service labor, so that's a whole other population of adults being re-exposed.

The crucial question for schools right now is how to handle the possibility of needing to teach remotely (or suddenly switch to it again) in the Fall, and how to virus-proof facilities and practices if they don't.

I don't hear talk of this yet, but I don't think it's unrealistic to imagine that many kids will be graduating a year later than they expected.

[LawBeefaroni]

Dr. Oz says we should kill 2% to 3% of the population so we can get the kids back in school.

He actually said that it would be additional deaths. So if there 100,000 dead, re-opening would lead to 2-3,000 more deaths.

I still find it horrible, but I think the difference is meaningful.

Edit: Also, it should be mentioned that his opinion was based on an OPINION piece out of England based on a model of Britain and their results. So it's really, really weak if it's meaningful at all.

Well, one certainly doesn't need to have originally thought he was talking about 2% of the population to have had their jaw drop when he made that statement.
The difference is only in magnitude - it's not all that 'meaningful', IMO. When a "doctor" starts to give economic advise that hinges on killing more people.... lol...

We make that choice all the time. Orders of magnitude differences in fatalities are the difference between approving a drug or not. They are the difference between allowing planes to fly or not.

As I said in the other thread where this was discussed, Oz is a charlatan TV doctor asswipe and I don't think his case is compelling at all (neither on a cost NOR humanitarian level). However, as a society we do make these kinds of calculations all the time.

[Unagi]

Dr. Oz says we should kill 2% to 3% of the population so we can get the kids back in school.

He actually said that it would be additional deaths. So if there 100,000 dead, re-opening would lead to 2-3,000 more deaths.

I still find it horrible, but I think the difference is meaningful.

Edit: Also, it should be mentioned that his opinion was based on an OPINION piece out of England based on a model of Britain and their results. So it's really, really weak if it's meaningful at all.

Well, one certainly doesn't need to have originally thought he was talking about 2% of the population to have had their jaw drop when he made that statement.
The difference is only in magnitude - it's not all that 'meaningful', IMO. When a "doctor" starts to give economic advise that hinges on killing more people.... lol...

We make that choice all the time. Orders of magnitude differences in fatalities are the difference between approving a drug or not. They are the difference between allowing planes to fly or not.

As I said in the other thread where this was discussed, Oz is a charlatan TV doctor asswipe and I don't think his case is compelling at all (neither on a cost NOR humanitarian level). However, as a society we do make these kinds of calculations all the time.

I get that we do it all the time as a society.

My point was that a “Dr” doesn’t make the argument he made.
Well, a medical one doesn’t, I should be more clear before I’m corrected.

[Unagi]

So I am seeing more news with 'Wuhan Virus"...
So that rebranding worked? I probably shouldn't let it bother me, but it does. It may even be fair.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ch ... spartanntp
Example. this article doesn't say the phrase Wuhan Coronavirus, but the headline that the Guardian gave it was: China denies cover-up as Wuhan coronavirus deaths revised up 50%
And the link that Yahoo News had to the article was: Wuhan Virus Deaths Revised Up 50%

although, maybe I'm being alarmist and missing that they are trying to talk about the deaths in Wuhan, so they must include that in the phrase?? Just doesn't seem like it though, certainly not the Yahoo News link that just say Wuhan Virus.

[Victoria Raverna]

Boeing 737 Max 8's flaws killed much less than 2% of the passengers that fly with that plane model. Why waste so much money and time trying to fix it?

[Smoove_B]

Oz is a charlatan TV doctor asswipe

I think he and Dr. Phil graduated from the same medical school must have taken a similar oath - "To do 2% harm".

[Holman]

Oz is a charlatan TV doctor asswipe

I think he and Dr. Phil graduated from the same medical school must have taken a similar oath - "To do 2% harm".

Dr. Phil isn't even a medical doctor. He has a PhD in clinical psychology, but he is no longer licensed to practice anywhere. (Guests on his show sign a waiver that they are only getting "advice," not professional psychological counseling.)

[Unagi]

Oz is a charlatan TV doctor asswipe

I think he and Dr. Phil graduated from the same medical school must have taken a similar oath - "To do 2% harm".

I’m stealing this.

[LawBeefaroni]

Baker in MA and some of the midwestern states (e.g. DeWine in OH) are showing there are competent R governors who get it. The linchpins of disaster if and when it comes may very well be the deep red ones who are strongly tied to the cult.

Ohio and Michigan are now floating May 1 to "start" opening things up.

Speaking to Good Morning America on Friday morning, Whitmer was responding to a question George Stephanopoulos asked about Ohio's governor – who said he hopes to start opening things back up by May 1.

"I do hope to have some relaxing come May 1, but it's two weeks away and the information and the data and our ability to test is changing so rapidly it's hard to tell precisely where we'll be in a week from now much less two," Whitmer said on Friday.

[Isgrimnur]

Dr. Phil says people die all the time (to things like car crashes, tobacco, and swimming pools) and we're not closing the country to stop that. Dr. Oz says we should kill 2% to 3% of the population so we can get the kids back in school. Why are these "doctors" wanting people to die for the economy?

Dr. Phil no longer has a medical license, and he was a psychologist.

Dr. Oz was a heart surgeon. But he's also a proponent of homeopathy and alternative medicine.

Neither of them are virologists, epidemiologists, or infectious disease experts. And given that their main paychecks come as a result of being seen on tv, I'm pretty sure they no longer have to follow any Hippocratic Oath.

Vox: Why Dr. Oz can say anything and keep his medical license

* edit: I don't think there's a BAM big enough for this one.

[LawBeefaroni]

So I am seeing more news with 'Wuhan Virus"...
So that rebranding worked? I probably shouldn't let it bother me, but it does. It may even be fair.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ch ... spartanntp
Example. this article doesn't say the phrase Wuhan Coronavirus, but the headline that the Guardian gave it was: China denies cover-up as Wuhan coronavirus deaths revised up 50%
And the link that Yahoo News had to the article was: Wuhan Virus Deaths Revised Up 50%

although, maybe I'm being alarmist and missing that they are trying to talk about the deaths in Wuhan, so they must include that in the phrase?? Just doesn't seem like it though, certainly not the Yahoo News link that just say Wuhan Virus.

Yes, they restated deaths in Wuhan (only). So Guardian at least is fine. They mean "coronavirus deaths in Wuhan."

[malchior]

Baker in MA and some of the midwestern states (e.g. DeWine in OH) are showing there are competent R governors who get it. The linchpins of disaster if and when it comes may very well be the deep red ones who are strongly tied to the cult.

Ohio and Michigan are now floating May 1 to "start" opening things up.

Speaking to Good Morning America on Friday morning, Whitmer was responding to a question George Stephanopoulos asked about Ohio's governor – who said he hopes to start opening things back up by May 1.

"I do hope to have some relaxing come May 1, but it's two weeks away and the information and the data and our ability to test is changing so rapidly it's hard to tell precisely where we'll be in a week from now much less two," Whitmer said on Friday.

Whitmer is walking a line there. That said, hope to open up is a far cry from doing it. DeWine also has to deal with the cult and who knows if he is serious or just trying to buy some time. However, at least for now it appears he isn't kowtowing to the cult and I think they both know there is little chance of it. Still, we may see interesting dynamics as these purple-ish states have to contend with power struggles.

[stessier]

So I am seeing more news with 'Wuhan Virus"...
So that rebranding worked? I probably shouldn't let it bother me, but it does. It may even be fair.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ch ... spartanntp
Example. this article doesn't say the phrase Wuhan Coronavirus, but the headline that the Guardian gave it was: China denies cover-up as Wuhan coronavirus deaths revised up 50%
And the link that Yahoo News had to the article was: Wuhan Virus Deaths Revised Up 50%

although, maybe I'm being alarmist and missing that they are trying to talk about the deaths in Wuhan, so they must include that in the phrase?? Just doesn't seem like it though, certainly not the Yahoo News link that just say Wuhan Virus.

They are literally referring to deaths in Wuhan from the virus. Its like saying New York coronavirus deaths are being revised. It's the most compact way to say it.

[Paingod]

What I keep discovering is that two weeks is a magical number in this. Everything will happen in two weeks.

A month ago, my workplace was considering fully re-opening in two weeks. Then I was let go two weeks later. After two more weeks they brought me back. Now we're going to re-open again in two weeks? I'm probably going to be laid off again in two weeks, again.

Next week projections will again say "two more weeks" ... and in two months, they'll still be saying "two more weeks"

[Holman]

https://twitter.com/joycewhitevance/sta ... 87841?s=21

What the actual fuck?

Didn’t Trump give a press conference *yesterday* proposing a phased, gradual approach to opening the economy?

[Isgrimnur]

[Unagi]

So I am seeing more news with 'Wuhan Virus"...
So that rebranding worked? I probably shouldn't let it bother me, but it does. It may even be fair.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ch ... spartanntp
Example. this article doesn't say the phrase Wuhan Coronavirus, but the headline that the Guardian gave it was: China denies cover-up as Wuhan coronavirus deaths revised up 50%
And the link that Yahoo News had to the article was: Wuhan Virus Deaths Revised Up 50%

although, maybe I'm being alarmist and missing that they are trying to talk about the deaths in Wuhan, so they must include that in the phrase?? Just doesn't seem like it though, certainly not the Yahoo News link that just say Wuhan Virus.

They are literally referring to deaths in Wuhan from the virus. Its like saying New York coronavirus deaths are being revised. It's the most compact way to say it.

And yet, CNN headlines the same story as:
“Wuhan Revises it’s Coronavirus death toll up by 50%”

So. I think to say there isn’t thought put behind the phrasing, is naive.

[Unagi]

What I keep discovering is that two weeks is a magical number in this. Everything will happen in two weeks.

A month ago, my workplace was considering fully re-opening in two weeks. Then I was let go two weeks later. After two more weeks they brought me back. Now we're going to re-open again in two weeks? I'm probably going to be laid off again in two weeks, again.

Next week projections will again say "two more weeks" ... and in two months, they'll still be saying "two more weeks"

I pointed this out to my wife like 2 weeks ago

[stessier]

So I am seeing more news with 'Wuhan Virus"...
So that rebranding worked? I probably shouldn't let it bother me, but it does. It may even be fair.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ch ... spartanntp
Example. this article doesn't say the phrase Wuhan Coronavirus, but the headline that the Guardian gave it was: China denies cover-up as Wuhan coronavirus deaths revised up 50%
And the link that Yahoo News had to the article was: Wuhan Virus Deaths Revised Up 50%

although, maybe I'm being alarmist and missing that they are trying to talk about the deaths in Wuhan, so they must include that in the phrase?? Just doesn't seem like it though, certainly not the Yahoo News link that just say Wuhan Virus.

They are literally referring to deaths in Wuhan from the virus. Its like saying New York coronavirus deaths are being revised. It's the most compact way to say it.

And yet, CNN headlines the same story as:
“Wuhan Revises it’s Coronavirus death toll up by 50%”

So. I think to say there isn’t thought put behind the phrasing, is naive.

And I think it is overly sensitive to suggest the Yahoo title is somehow improper. Unless the article goes on to call it the Wuhan virus, I see nothing wrong with it.