Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

[Kraken]

Anti-malarial drug Trump touted is linked to higher rates of death in VA coronavirus patients, study says

An anti-malarial drug President Trump has aggressively promoted to treat covid-19 had no benefit and was linked to higher rates of death for Veterans Affairs patients hospitalized with the novel coronavirus, according to a study, raising further questions about the safety and efficacy of a treatment that has seen widespread use in the pandemic.

The study by VA and academic researchers analyzed outcomes of 368 male patients nationwide, with 97 receiving hydroxychloroquine, 113 receiving hydroxychloroquine in combination with the antibiotic azithromycin, and 158 not receiving any hydroxychloroquine.

Rates of death in the groups treated with the drugs were worse than those who did not receive the drugs, the study found. Rates of patients on ventilators were roughly equal, with no benefit demonstrated by the drugs.

So it was necessary to kill a few veterans to prove Trump is full of shit?

My first thought is that the guinea pigs were already closer to death. That's just a WAG, though.

[Holman]

Anti-malarial drug Trump touted is linked to higher rates of death in VA coronavirus patients, study says

An anti-malarial drug President Trump has aggressively promoted to treat covid-19 had no benefit and was linked to higher rates of death for Veterans Affairs patients hospitalized with the novel coronavirus, according to a study, raising further questions about the safety and efficacy of a treatment that has seen widespread use in the pandemic.

The study by VA and academic researchers analyzed outcomes of 368 male patients nationwide, with 97 receiving hydroxychloroquine, 113 receiving hydroxychloroquine in combination with the antibiotic azithromycin, and 158 not receiving any hydroxychloroquine.

Rates of death in the groups treated with the drugs were worse than those who did not receive the drugs, the study found. Rates of patients on ventilators were roughly equal, with no benefit demonstrated by the drugs.

So it was necessary to kill a few veterans to prove Trump is full of shit?

Wait--Didn't Trump already announce that we were buying a shitload of that stuff? Before any testing, apparently?

Was he recklessly wasteful and stupid, or was he just lying again?

[Max Peck]

Nearly 25,000 email addresses and passwords allegedly from NIH, WHO, Gates Foundation and others are dumped online

Unknown activists have posted nearly 25,000 email addresses and passwords allegedly belonging to the National Institutes of Health, the World Health Organization, the Gates Foundation and other groups working to combat the coronavirus pandemic, according to the SITE Intelligence Group, which monitors online extremism and terrorist groups.

While SITE was unable to verify whether the email addresses and passwords were authentic, the group said the information was released Sunday and Monday and almost immediately used to foment attempts at hacking and harassment by far-right extremists. An Australian cybersecurity expert, Robert Potter, said he was able to verify that the WHO email addresses and passwords were real.

The lists, whose origins are unclear, appear to have first been posted to 4chan, a message board notorious for its hateful and extreme political commentary, and later to Pastebin, a text storage site, to Twitter and to far-right extremist channels on Telegram, a messaging app.

“Neo-Nazis and white supremacists capitalized on the lists and published them aggressively across their venues,” said Rita Katz, SITE’s executive director. “Using the data, far-right extremists were calling for a harassment campaign while sharing conspiracy theories about the coronavirus pandemic. The distribution of these alleged email credentials were just another part of a months-long initiative across the far right to weaponize the covid-19 pandemic.”

[El Guapo]

Anti-malarial drug Trump touted is linked to higher rates of death in VA coronavirus patients, study says

An anti-malarial drug President Trump has aggressively promoted to treat covid-19 had no benefit and was linked to higher rates of death for Veterans Affairs patients hospitalized with the novel coronavirus, according to a study, raising further questions about the safety and efficacy of a treatment that has seen widespread use in the pandemic.

The study by VA and academic researchers analyzed outcomes of 368 male patients nationwide, with 97 receiving hydroxychloroquine, 113 receiving hydroxychloroquine in combination with the antibiotic azithromycin, and 158 not receiving any hydroxychloroquine.

Rates of death in the groups treated with the drugs were worse than those who did not receive the drugs, the study found. Rates of patients on ventilators were roughly equal, with no benefit demonstrated by the drugs.

So it was necessary to kill a few veterans to prove Trump is full of shit?

Wait--Didn't Trump already announce that we were buying a shitload of that stuff? Before any testing, apparently?

Was he recklessly wasteful and stupid, or was he just lying again?

He's desperate for a magic bullet to make this all go away. Plus he's stupid and prone to conspiracy theories and wishful thinking.

[Freyland]

Anti-malarial drug Trump touted is linked to higher rates of death in VA coronavirus patients, study says

An anti-malarial drug President Trump has aggressively promoted to treat covid-19 had no benefit and was linked to higher rates of death for Veterans Affairs patients hospitalized with the novel coronavirus, according to a study, raising further questions about the safety and efficacy of a treatment that has seen widespread use in the pandemic.

The study by VA and academic researchers analyzed outcomes of 368 male patients nationwide, with 97 receiving hydroxychloroquine, 113 receiving hydroxychloroquine in combination with the antibiotic azithromycin, and 158 not receiving any hydroxychloroquine.

Rates of death in the groups treated with the drugs were worse than those who did not receive the drugs, the study found. Rates of patients on ventilators were roughly equal, with no benefit demonstrated by the drugs.

So it was necessary to kill a few veterans to prove Trump is full of shit?

Relax. They were all Vets that had been captured at one time or another.

[Defiant]

Well, states in the South-East are making their own coalition

The newly formed coalition includes Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Alabama and Mississippi, a part of the country that has underfunded health systems, as well as high rates of obesity, diabetes and other illnesses that amplify the deadliness of the coronavirus.

And unlike their peers in New York, New Jersey and other Northeastern states that have been working cooperatively since last week to restart their economies, the six in the South have lagged on testing and social distancing measures.

[Daehawk]

Maybe it will clean some of the idiots out from around here.

[Zarathud]

Republican Missouri Attorney General attempts to sue China over the Covid outbreak. I can't wait for the counter-argument about the Trump administration in court, but this is so obviously an attempt to feed Trump's propaganda machine rather than a serious lawsuit.

Schmitt's office also outlined what they described as key factual allegations. Those allegations include the Chinese government denying the risk of human-to-human transmission, silencing whistleblowers, failing to contain the outbreak, and hoarding personal protective equipment.

Now replace China with Trump. When did Republicans lose all sense of irony and truth? The Colbert Report?

[Formix]

Well, states in the South-East are making their own coalition

The newly formed coalition includes Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Alabama and Mississippi, a part of the country that has underfunded health systems, as well as high rates of obesity, diabetes and other illnesses that amplify the deadliness of the coronavirus.

And unlike their peers in New York, New Jersey and other Northeastern states that have been working cooperatively since last week to restart their economies, the six in the South have lagged on testing and social distancing measures.

Welcome to the Conservative Confederated States of Jesus, please leave your "science" at the border.

[LawBeefaroni]

Republican Missouri Attorney General attempts to sue China over the Covid outbreak. I can't wait for the counter-argument about the Trump administration in court, but this is so obviously an attempt to feed Trump's propaganda machine rather than a serious lawsuit.

Schmitt's office also outlined what they described as key factual allegations. Those allegations include the Chinese government denying the risk of human-to-human transmission, silencing whistleblowers, failing to contain the outbreak, and hoarding personal protective equipment.

Now replace China with Trump. When did Republicans lose all sense of irony and truth? The Colbert Report?

Projection, projection, projection. Want to know what they're up to? Listen to what they accuse others of doing.

[LawBeefaroni]

Kudlow on CNBC calling for legislation/EO to block liability lawsuits for businesses that open up.

[Dogstar]

Kudlow on CNBC calling for legislation/EO to block liability lawsuits for businesses that open up.

I'm pretty sure you can't pre-empt lawsuits through Executive Order. And there's no way in hell a Democratic House agrees to that legislation.

[Skinypupy]

Seen on Twitter this morning:

BREAKING: Atlanta has announced plans to reopen the city now that they have a 28-3 lead on COVID-19.

I lol'd

[Defiant]

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status ... 8603309057

[LawBeefaroni]

Kudlow on CNBC calling for legislation/EO to block liability lawsuits for businesses that open up.

I'm pretty sure you can't pre-empt lawsuits through Executive Order. And there's no way in hell a Democratic House agrees to that legislation.

"Can't legally" can "can't" are two very different things. Certainly they'll try.

White House economic advisor Larry Kudlow said Wednesday that he was in favor of shielding companies from coronavirus-related lawsuits as the administration eyes a speedy reopening of the economy.

Kudlow, speaking on on CNBC’s “Squawk Box,” said that businesses, and particularly small businesses, should not have to face what he called “trial lawyers putting on false lawsuits.”

“You’ve got to give the businesses some confidence here that if something happens, and it may not be their fault — the disease is an infectious disease — if something happens, you can’t take them out of business,” Kudlow said “You can’t throw big lawsuits at them. And I think liability reforms and safeguards are going to be a very important part of it.”

...

On Monday, President Donald Trump addressed the topic at a White House press briefing, saying “we have tried to take liability away from these companies.” Trump said a “legal opinion” would be forthcoming.

“We just don’t want that because we want the companies to open and to open strong,” Trump said.

...

Justin Wolfers, an economics and public policy professor at the University of Michigan, wrote in a widely circulated post on Twitter last week that such a proposal was “bad economics and bad policy.”

“The whole point of making employers liable for risking the lives of their staff is to prevent them from exposing their staff to undue risk,” Wolfers wrote. “Businesses are asking for the right to expose their workers to fatal risks with no consequences.”

[Dogstar]

Justin Wolfers, an economics and public policy professor at the University of Michigan, wrote in a widely circulated post on Twitter last week that such a proposal was “bad economics and bad policy.”

“The whole point of making employers liable for risking the lives of their staff is to prevent them from exposing their staff to undue risk,” Wolfers wrote. “Businesses are asking for the right to expose their workers to fatal risks with no consequences.”

I'm sure that a ton of state AG's as well as employment lawyers look forward to challenging that, and it won't be hard to find a court that will side with the plaintiffs, tying this up in the system indefinitely. You remove liability and you start undermining the basic reason for having OSHA.

[ImLawBoy]

I can understand some very limited shielding for companies that open up, provided they are complying with certain guidelines that would ideally be set by the government. Of course, I don't trust this government to set up appropriate safety guidelines, and such guidelines would by their nature have to be vague and subject to interpretation. (Lawyer employment opportunity there.) Employers have to absolutely remain liable for their negligence, however, and they shouldn't be able to rely on blanket immunity to avoid their responsibilities.

So I could support some level of immunity that protects employers from claims that opening up (if their local (city/state) governments open up business generally) is per se negligence. If they then fail to institute reasonable measures to keep their employees safe, however, then they lose that immunity.

Just spitballing here, and I could likely be convinced either way based on solid arguments. (And again, I don't really trust the Trump administration to properly set guidelines around such immunities).

[Smoove_B]

It's not like there isn't a ton of case law already for Legionnaire's Disease and exposures at garden shows by way of hot tubs. If there is documented disease exposure risk from [X] in a working environment and your organization should have known about the risks, that's a problem. Is there anyone that could argue in April of 2020 they didn't understand the risk of exposure? Where I guess it could get dicey is that we still don't have a firm handle on the disease etiology at this point. Control measures we're putting into place are a best guess. They might be too restrictive; the might not be restrictive enough. Opening up regular retail business (facilities like what Kemp has ordered) that have zero experience in communicable disease prevention (other than tattoo parlors) seems strange. There's no such thing as no risk, but I can't imagine a situation where an business liability insurance carrier in places like Georgia isn't flipping the hell out right now.

[malchior]

Justin Wolfers, an economics and public policy professor at the University of Michigan, wrote in a widely circulated post on Twitter last week that such a proposal was “bad economics and bad policy.”

“The whole point of making employers liable for risking the lives of their staff is to prevent them from exposing their staff to undue risk,” Wolfers wrote. “Businesses are asking for the right to expose their workers to fatal risks with no consequences.”

I'm sure that a ton of state AG's as well as employment lawyers look forward to challenging that, and it won't be hard to find a court that will side with the plaintiffs, tying this up in the system indefinitely. You remove liability and you start undermining the basic reason for having OSHA.

You also remove the basic reason for having a nation of laws. Besides, business owners have too much power over employees. Even if there was reasonable guidelines I don't see how many of these businesses could meet them in this case. It is opening the door for a lot of shady employers to essentially endanger other people for their own purposes. They'll ram right through the massive gaps in the guidelines.

[malchior]

There's no such thing as no risk, but I can't imagine a situation where an business liability insurance carrier in places like Georgia isn't flipping the hell out right now.

Insurers would probably love the out. They often write pandemic/war type clauses into policies and if the state essentially makes the risk pool everyone then the insurers may end legally free of the risk.

[Jeff V]

If they then fail to institute reasonable measures to keep their employees safe, however, then they lose that immunity.

The nature of "reasonable measures" is likely to be a hard thing to pin down. Is requiring employees to wear masks and gloves considered "reasonable measures" when the efficacy of such things is questionable at best? Certainly over time more data will become available and what might seem "reasonable measures" based on non-scientific intuition might be laughable a month or two from now. To me, "reasonable measures" would be along the lines of (and I can't believe I'm saying this but credit is due) what Little Caesar's is doing with contactless pickup. Finding ways to reduce liability by eliminating employees will become a thing, and that won't help with unemployment.

[stessier]

...
Later this week they will decide about reopening the schools. (Spoiler - they are totally going to reopen the schools. )

...

Edit: The more I think about it, the more they can't open the schools, right? I'm legally required to send my kid and there is no way to socially distance anyone in that environment. They have to keep them closed. Right? Please let sanity reign...

They closed the schools through the end of the year. Not only that, the Superintendent said they are already making plans for using e-learning next year. Huzzah!

I'd love it if they don't need it, but at least they are planning for the possibility (which I see as the likely reality). Way better than throwing it together at the last minute out of surprise.

[Smoove_B]

I suspect we're going to see more stories like this in the coming months:

At least two people who died in early and mid-February had contracted the novel coronavirus, health officials in California said Tuesday, signaling the virus may have spread — and been fatal — in the United States weeks earlier than previously thought.

Tissue samples taken during autopsies of two people who died at home in Santa Clara County, Calif., tested positive for the virus, local health officials said in a statement. The victims died on Feb. 6 and Feb. 17, respectively.

Initially, the nation’s earliest coronavirus fatality was thought to have occurred on Feb. 29, in Kirkland, Wash., a suburb of Seattle that rapidly became a hot spot. In March, health officials there linked two Feb. 26 deaths to covid-19, the disease caused by the new virus.

[Unagi]

https://mobile.twitter.com/stop_trump20 ... 6577948672

I keep watching it.
She really has nailed it.

[ImLawBoy]

If they then fail to institute reasonable measures to keep their employees safe, however, then they lose that immunity.

The nature of "reasonable measures" is likely to be a hard thing to pin down.

I mean, yeah.

such guidelines would by their nature have to be vague and subject to interpretation. (Lawyer employment opportunity there.)

Of course you can't come up with what, exactly, reasonable measures would be. It will vary from industry to industry and possibly even city to city. Our legal system is set up to handle such disputes, however. What I'm suggesting is that immunity from suits that claim opening up business in accordance with whatever guidelines are set forth is in and of itself negligence can be a good thing. That will prevent some of the inevitable meritless suits that will be filed. It won't stop all of them, of course, but it will provide some level of relief for responsible business owners who do open. To make an actionable claim, a suit will have to say more than, "The employer opened for business." They'd have to show some level of negligence beyond that.

[LordMortis]

https://mobile.twitter.com/stop_trump20 ... 6577948672

I keep watching it.
She really has nailed it.

Nailed it!

[El Guapo]

https://twitter.com/aedwardslevy/status ... 2853459969

FYI Trump's numbers continue to trend down, albeit not fast enough.

[Daehawk]

Saw someone online today say "Im glad to see Trump supporting the protesters."

Im like I just dont get their way of thinking.

[LawBeefaroni]

Saw someone online today say "Im glad to see Trump supporting the protesters."

Im like I just dont get their way of thinking.

"The enemy of my country is my friend."

[Alefroth]

Why do we calculate mortality rate by deaths/infections rather than deaths/cases that had an outcome?

[El Guapo]

Why do we calculate mortality rate by deaths/infections rather than deaths/cases that had an outcome?

I"m confused what you mean by "cases that had an outcome"? Infections is everyone who contracted coronavirus. So the mortality percentage is out of that whole universe of infected people, how many died?

[Defiant]

Why do we calculate mortality rate by deaths/infections rather than deaths/cases that had an outcome?

I"m confused what you mean by "cases that had an outcome"? Infections is everyone who contracted coronavirus. So the mortality percentage is out of that whole universe of infected people, how many died?

I assume cases that had an outcome are either people that died or people that recovered. Doing it by deaths/infections would include those that haven't yet recovered. Either way would have errors in it, because people who are hospitalized but recovered take up to six weeks to recover, whereas people who die usually die early on.

Ideally, what you would want is to look at is the set of cases that all started at the same time, and then wait until all of those cases reached an outcome (say six weeks), and look at the death rate of that set. Although even that would have issues, since there are going to be cases of people who were asymptomatic, or who were symptomatic but didn't get tested, or did get tested but got a false negative.

[Smoove_B]

By definition, epidemiological rates must include time as a factor. You're getting into period (usually a week or more) vs point (usually 24 hours) rates now with your additional questioning. This is also why when people were talking about the death rate back in January and February people like me were banging our heads against the desk. We didn't know (and still don't) the death rate for COVID-19 because the global outbreak is still happening. We can calculate period death rates in various cities or communities and there's value in that, but trying compare a currently unfolding pandemic to what happened in 2003 with SARS or 1918 with influenza isn't all that useful - particularly when we're still only identifying a fraction of the actual cases.

[hitbyambulance]

top three 'spreader' states are all ones without a shelter in place order:



from https://rt.live, of course

[Daehawk]

You'd need a 100% perfect test and 100% testing then a wait time before looking back.

[Alefroth]

Why do we calculate mortality rate by deaths/infections rather than deaths/cases that had an outcome?

I"m confused what you mean by "cases that had an outcome"? Infections is everyone who contracted coronavirus. So the mortality percentage is out of that whole universe of infected people, how many died?

Cases that had an outcome is either recovering or dying. If they still have it, they may still die. Basing mortality rate off of all those who have it assumes they all live.

[Smoove_B]

Death cult, Wisconsin style:

Wisconsin's Republican-led legislature filed a lawsuit Tuesday in an attempt to reopen the state and block the extension of a stay-at-home order issued by state health officials to slow the spread of the coronavirus.
The lawsuit was filed against Wisconsin's Department of Health Services Secretary-designee Andrea Palm and other health officials, who recently extended the state's "Safer at Home" emergency order until May 26, but loosened some restrictions on certain businesses.
In the complaint, lawmakers argue that if this order remains in effect, "many Wisconsinites will have lost their jobs, and many companies will have gone under, to say nothing of the Order's countless other downstream societal effects. Our State will be in shambles."

[hitbyambulance]

just watched Gov. Inslee's address - main takeaway from it is IF Trump sends the promised number ("millions") of swabs in the next couple weeks, WA state will finally have the testing capacity it needs.

that of course is a big yellow IF

[Isgrimnur]

Reuters

.S. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday opened the door to allowing U.S. states to file for bankruptcy to deal with economic losses stemming from the coronavirus outbreak that are punching big holes in their budgets.

McConnell said in a radio interview that Republicans would not support giving state and local governments more money in future coronavirus aid legislation, saying those funds could end up being used to bail out state pensions.

Speaking on Hugh Hewitt’s syndicated conservative talk radio show, McConnell said he instead “would certainly be in favor of allowing states to use the bankruptcy route.”
...
Currently, states cannot file for bankruptcy, while cities and other local governments can use Chapter 9 municipal bankruptcy to restructure their debt if allowed by their states. Puerto Rico, a U.S. commonwealth, commenced a form of municipal bankruptcy in 2017 after the U.S. Congress authorized it.
...
Muni market analysts played down McConnell’s comments as political posturing. Matt Fabian, a partner at Municipal Market Analytics, said he doubted whether such a move was constitutionally or politically possible.

“The whole point is a red herring,” he said. “(McConnell’s) statement is more about how Republicans are going to require concessions from Democrats if Democrats want states to get additional aid.”

[malchior]

top three 'spreader' states are all ones without a shelter in place order:



from https://rt.live, of course

I can't caution enough against reading anything into this visualization. Their algorithm produces a drastically different result day to day. For example, at one point early in the week CT was at the far left of the scale. And then was 2nd from the right day the next day. Their model isn't even close to stable. I can't even prove this because the results from yesterday are based on a re-compute from today that has different results.