[Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

[YellowKing]

I'm completely baffled as to what the logic and guidance is now. NC is seeing a skyrocketing number of cases, and our effective reproduction numbers have gone in the red. Yet we're still pretty much in "stay the course on re-opening, we're all good."

My optimistic side says our testing is just so good now that the rising numbers are expected and we're still meeting recommended re-opening thresholds.

My pessimistic side says we're in "oh shit" mode and nobody wants to lock things back down after just re-opening.

I really think the genie's out of the bottle on lockdowns - people don't care anymore, and I think states are going to have a very difficult time going back to shelter-in-place restrictions.

[Isgrimnur]

https://www.cosmopolitanlasvegas.com/re ... /the-henry

A modern American eatery with casual upscale charm, The Henry is the round-the-clock spot for a unique twist on comfort food. A treat for all of your senses, colorful accents and eclectic presentations combine with savory aromas for an elevated neighborhood dining experience. Enjoy cuisine and cocktails served in fun and untraditional methods.

[Zaxxon]

My pessimistic side says we're in "oh shit" mode and nobody wants to lock things back down after just re-opening.

This one.

I really think the genie's out of the bottle on lockdowns - people don't care anymore, and I think states are going to have a very difficult time going back to shelter-in-place restrictions.

Also this.

[LawBeefaroni]

I'm assuming this is a fancy restaurant.

Aspirational dining in Las Vegas. Burgers are $20 so it's "middle class" as far as restaurants go, maybe?

[Paingod]

Yup. If you didn't do it right the first time, you're not getting a second chance. People were barely able to stay sane for one brief pause.

[LawBeefaroni]

I'm completely baffled as to what the logic and guidance is now. NC is seeing a skyrocketing number of cases, and our effective reproduction numbers have gone in the red. Yet we're still pretty much in "stay the course on re-opening, we're all good."

My optimistic side says our testing is just so good now that the rising numbers are expected and we're still meeting recommended re-opening thresholds.

My pessimistic side says we're in "oh shit" mode and nobody wants to lock things back down after just re-opening.

I really think the genie's out of the bottle on lockdowns - people don't care anymore, and I think states are going to have a very difficult time going back to shelter-in-place restrictions.

Our state has been pretty hard-line but dove into phase 3 a few days ago. The only hope I have right now is that summer weather has some magic effect on reducing spread. Looking at it as a long shot though.




Our kid's preschool opens in 10 days. We've already said we're waiting until at least mid July to send the boy back which means he could nlose his spot. So I may end up paying ghost tuition for a month just to save his spot.

[Kraken]

The hardest-hit states are still taking this seriously and reopening cautiously and slowly. States that saw minimum impact are throwing caution to the wind, and they're the ones where cases are rising faster again. Officials seem to have accepted some undefined ongoing death toll as the cost of doing business, and a lot of Americans are apparently fine with that. A dramatic increase in casualties might make them reassess...or maybe not.



Pretty sure I posted part one here previously; if you don't remember it, it's here.

[ImLawBoy]

Our parents (3 of them, all in the 70s) have been doing so good during the stay-at-home period, but now that things are opening up they seem to think everything is back to normal. We're refusing to budge on our self-quarrantine using the excuse that our oldest is particularly susceptible to this thing, but I expect we'll start getting more and more pressure to visit live with them.

[dbt1949]

Our state upped it's testing game here a few weeks back and we're going nuts discovering new cases.

[Daehawk]

Our state is solid red. I wouldn't put it past them to be doing less testing just to cook the numbers. Our Gov is too busy bending over picking up 50 bars of soap nude trying to entice Trump to have the GOP convention here. The capital leaders are trying to shut him up and telling them they dont want it here. Its a fun State. Everyone should come down and gawk.

[pr0ner]

Just a snap shot of how life has changed. I'm assuming this is a fancy restaurant.

https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status ... 7862184960

Judging by the menu and the prices, it's not that fancy. Not for a Vegas strip restaurant, anyway (I've eaten in several that are fancier than The Henry).

[YellowKing]

Our kid's preschool opens in 10 days. We've already said we're waiting until at least mid July to send the boy back which means he could nlose his spot. So I may end up paying ghost tuition for a month just to save his spot.

We are sending our kids back to daycare next week, but I have really struggled with it.

If I don't send them back, I'm stuck throwing about $1000 away each month on literally nothing in order to hold their spot. That's a bitter pill to swallow since we just moved into a temporary rental that is more than my old mortgage. I just don't have that kind of money to burn. If I don't hold their spot, I run the risk of work deciding I have to go back in and they suddenly have nowhere to go.

In addition, not sending them back means they're stuck being babysat by YouTube and Xbox all day, which is not fair to them. My work is incredibly demanding right now, and it's not unusual for me to be in 4 or 5 hours of meetings and project sessions. I'm not only unable to give them the attention they deserve, but I"m technically violating company policy by providing daycare while on the clock. That restriction was relaxed significantly during the mandated lockdown, but that's something they could choose to enforce at any time.

It's a horrible decision to have to make as a parent, because ultimately you're rolling the dice on your kids' safety no matter how small the risk.

[pr0ner]

Our kid's preschool opens in 10 days. We've already said we're waiting until at least mid July to send the boy back which means he could nlose his spot. So I may end up paying ghost tuition for a month just to save his spot.

We are sending our kids back to daycare next week, but I have really struggled with it.

If I don't send them back, I'm stuck throwing about $1000 away each month on literally nothing in order to hold their spot. That's a bitter pill to swallow since we just moved into a temporary rental that is more than my old mortgage. I just don't have that kind of money to burn. If I don't hold their spot, I run the risk of work deciding I have to go back in and they suddenly have nowhere to go.

In addition, not sending them back means they're stuck being babysat by YouTube and Xbox all day, which is not fair to them. My work is incredibly demanding right now, and it's not unusual for me to be in 4 or 5 hours of meetings and project sessions. I'm not only unable to give them the attention they deserve, but I"m technically violating company policy by providing daycare while on the clock. That restriction was relaxed significantly during the mandated lockdown, but that's something they could choose to enforce at any time.

It's a horrible decision to have to make as a parent, because ultimately you're rolling the dice on your kids' safety no matter how small the risk.

Where I work, in "normal times", you were specifically told not to work at home full time if you were going to use that time to provide day care for your kids while you're working. I'll never forget one coworker who would constantly call me asking for help, and a minute into the call, say "gotta run, baby's awake". WTF.

[noxiousdog]

I really think the genie's out of the bottle on lockdowns - people don't care anymore, and I think states are going to have a very difficult time going back to shelter-in-place restrictions.

I'm pretty sure the powers that be decided as long as the hospitals aren't overrun, we're good.

[YellowKing]

I'm pretty sure the powers that be decided as long as the hospitals aren't overrun, we're good.

And I guess that's the best we can do in providing a balance between economy and safety. The original intent was always to keep hospitals manageable, and if that is being accomplished I can't really argue with it.

For example, my local hospital only has around 20 cases in-house right now. That's in a town of 120,000. And our hospital not only serves the city, but surrounding counties, so that 120,000 number is actually much higher.

[stessier]

If I don't send them back, I'm stuck throwing about $1000 away each month on literally nothing in order to hold their spot. That's a bitter pill to swallow since we just moved into a temporary rental that is more than my old mortgage. I just don't have that kind of money to burn. If I don't hold their spot, I run the risk of work deciding I have to go back in and they suddenly have nowhere to go.

We have people in similar situations who decided to just use the money and look for a nanny type situation - particularly during the summer when there are college kids out. Even if $1000 only buys you 9-3 or 10-2 coverage, might be worth thinking about.

[gilraen]

I just ordered a pulse oximeter. Figured I'll be really glad I did, if one of us catches COVID-19.

At least my work isn't making us come back to the office any time soon...possibly at all.

[LawBeefaroni]

If I don't send them back, I'm stuck throwing about $1000 away each month on literally nothing in order to hold their spot. That's a bitter pill to swallow since we just moved into a temporary rental that is more than my old mortgage. I just don't have that kind of money to burn. If I don't hold their spot, I run the risk of work deciding I have to go back in and they suddenly have nowhere to go.

We have people in similar situations who decided to just use the money and look for a nanny type situation - particularly during the summer when there are college kids out. Even if $1000 only buys you 9-3 or 10-2 coverage, might be worth thinking about.

I'm my case, and it sounds like YK too, you need to pay to keep the kid's spot. Don't pay and find alternative care for the short term, kid loses the spot and you need to find a long term school solution.

[stessier]

Yeah, I know. I'm still operating under the assumption it's going to be e-learning this fall, so no sense in paying for a year that you won't be using.

[Anonymous Bosch]

I really think the genie's out of the bottle on lockdowns - people don't care anymore, and I think states are going to have a very difficult time going back to shelter-in-place restrictions.

Alas, when you have a governmental public health official now posting dogmatic unscientific gobshite like this, it's no wonder people are unlikely to heed their advice and restrictions again:

https://twitter.com/MarkLevineNYC/statu ... 1468559360

Let's be clear about something: if there is a spike in coronavirus cases in the next two weeks, don't blame the protesters.

Blame racism.

[Enough]

I really think the genie's out of the bottle on lockdowns - people don't care anymore, and I think states are going to have a very difficult time going back to shelter-in-place restrictions.

Alas, when you have a governmental public health official now posting dogmatic unscientific gobshite like this, it's no wonder people are unlikely to heed their advice and restrictions again:

https://twitter.com/MarkLevineNYC/statu ... 1468559360

Let's be clear about something: if there is a spike in coronavirus cases in the next two weeks, don't blame the protesters.

Blame racism.

Blaming protestors and isms alike is what we do.

[Smoove_B]

Just to be clear (via Wiki):

Mark D. Levine is the Council member for the 7th District of the New York City Council. He majored in physics at Haverford College and the University of Seville, Spain. He received a Masters in Public Policy from the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University in 1995.

He's a public official. Calling him a government public health official is not quite correct.

[AWS260]

Observations about protests and public health from a longtime AIDS activist and epidemiologist (taken from his long twitter thread):

Now, some have said, if there are thousands of new cases of #COVID19, with many of them in communities of color, over the next few months, due to the protests, was it "worth it?" Well, many in communities of color have voted with their feet.

That is, many marching know the risks of #SARSCOV2, as the epidemic is already raging in their communities. They are not acting out of ignorance, which needs to be "corrected" by the experts.

The protesters are balancing competing risks to their communities, of COVID19, police violence and centuries of systemic racism, which has led to declining, but still large gaps in life expectancy, health and wellness among African Americans and their white counterparts.
***
I think the attempt to delink racism, white supremacy & COVID19 by some are really about denying the impact of race on health in the USA. Thus, the protests against it-in this case on direct violence of police on black bodies-are just a "cause," just another social gathering.

They see support for these marches as "political," and would like "neutrality" in public health advice, which is this case would mean distancing ourselves from these protests. This is a conception of public health as a technocratic field, divorced from the world of politics.

This is about balancing competing risks to communities, understanding that the protesters are trying to address several real health risks, including factors that put communities at greater risk for COVID in the first place, which some would like to sweep under the carpet.

Everyone I know who works in public health cares deeply and intensely about racial inequity, because health data lay bare the structural racism in our society. We see this in COVID-19: Blacks who get the virus are more than 3 times more likely to die than whites.

[Isgrimnur]

I really think the genie's out of the bottle on lockdowns - people don't care anymore, and I think states are going to have a very difficult time going back to shelter-in-place restrictions.

Alas, when you have a governmental public health official now posting dogmatic unscientific gobshite like this, it's no wonder people are unlikely to heed their advice and restrictions again:

https://twitter.com/MarkLevineNYC/statu ... 1468559360

Let's be clear about something: if there is a spike in coronavirus cases in the next two weeks, don't blame the protesters.

Blame racism.

Blaming protestors and isms alike is what we do.

It's not that I condone fascism or any 'ism' for that matter. Ism's, in my opinion, are not good. A person should not believe in an 'ism,' he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon: 'I don't believe in Beatles. I just believe in me.' A good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off of people.

[Sudy]

Making masks freely available to protesters at subway station exits etc. might be a nice idea, though I don't think many people are inclined to form a government queue right now. Few things are more important than practicing proper transmission prevention methods, but this is one of them. It would be nice if we could have both, but I don't really think protests are generally compatible with physical distancing rules.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Just to be clear (via Wiki):

Mark D. Levine is the Council member for the 7th District of the New York City Council. He majored in physics at Haverford College and the University of Seville, Spain. He received a Masters in Public Policy from the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University in 1995.

He's a public official. Calling him a government public health official is not quite correct.

Governmental definition courtesy of Merriam-Webster:

Definition of government

1. : the body of persons that constitutes the governing authority of a political unit or organization: such as
   1. : the officials comprising the governing body of a political unit and constituting the organization as an active agency

He's the Chair of the New York City Council health committee, which is described as follows:

Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, Health and Hospitals Corporation and Office of the Chief Medical Examiner and EMS (health-related issues).

So he's a governmental official involved in public health. So you're drawing a distinction without much of a difference here.

[Isgrimnur]

He’s a legislator with oversight of health issues, not a trained medical professional. I don’t call Congresspeople on the health committee to get advice on a rash.

[Smoove_B]

So he's a governmental official involved in public health. So you're drawing a distinction without much of a difference here.

It might sound like I'm quibbling, but it's important. To be clear, his message is crap - which has me then look up his credentials and for whom he's speaking.

Being on the NY City Council requires nothing other than a willingness to serve. As someone that has served under (and now on) local and county Boards of Health, the qualifications for being a member are based on residency. Ideally people serving have some connection (education, experience) for the board they're on, but that's not always the case. In my experience, it's quite rare. He might be serving as the Committee Chair on Health, but he's still not a government official IMHO at least how I use the terms. He's public official - elected or appointed to office. Government official (again, as I've used it) is someone that is hired and paid. I'm not going to argue with the Dictionary; if my use is incorrect that's fine - I'm just commenting as someone that has both been employed and voluntarily served in and for the public sector for ~23 years now.

So, as a licensed professional I take umbrage with not only his statement, but that he still made it knowing his current affiliations; he's not helping. I've actively resisted saying things (for example) on social media because some might take my words as the official position of my current employer or as the local or county health agencies I currently serve on.

[Anonymous Bosch]

He’s a legislator with oversight of health issues, not a trained medical professional.

Right. Now show me where I said he was "a trained medical professional." Because that's your (mis)interpretation of what I posted, but it ain't what I said. And I just got through explaining what I said and why I said it, so what exactly are you confused about here?

[Isgrimnur]

Why I bothered, honestly.

[YellowKing]

I went to a store (Target) today, for the first time since all this started (almost 3 months). It wasn't as bad as I feared, primarily because people don't really give a crap anymore so other than approximately half the people wearing masks and a lady at the door telling us to social distance, it was a typical Target shopping run.

My cloth mask hasn't come in yet so I was using a crappy disposable one that the hospital gave me and it was fine. Wore it for an hour and other than it being a little warm to wear for that length of time, it was a small price to pay to be able to get out of the house for a bit and see some semblance of a normal weekend.

[LawBeefaroni]

On my front deck a few minutes ago, saw several families on the "closed" playground. Party to my right, probably 15-20 people, party to my left, 10 or so with kids.

There is a steady din of people partying.

There were also a lot of 20-25 year olds who looked like protest stragglers taking social media photos at a minor landmark across the street.

My bar is still closed though.

[ImLawBoy]

He’s a legislator with oversight of health issues, not a trained medical professional.

Right. Now show me where I said he was "a trained medical professional." Because that's your (mis)interpretation of what I posted, but it ain't what I said. And I just got through explaining what I said and why I said it, so what exactly are you confused about here?

When you say someone is a "governmental public health official", I think many people would reasonably think that this person had some sort of medical training, regardless of semantical dancing around the issue. I for one appreciate the clarification that this is a politician blustering rather than a medical professional saying these things, so I found Smoove's posting to be beneficial.

[Blackhawk]

When you say someone is a "governmental public health official", I think many people would reasonably think that this person had some sort of medical training

Well, unless he was a Trump appointee.

[ImLawBoy]

When you say someone is a "governmental public health official", I think many people would reasonably think that this person had some sort of medical training

Well, unless he was a Trump appointee.

Touche!

[Anonymous Bosch]

He’s a legislator with oversight of health issues, not a trained medical professional.

Right. Now show me where I said he was "a trained medical professional." Because that's your (mis)interpretation of what I posted, but it ain't what I said. And I just got through explaining what I said and why I said it, so what exactly are you confused about here?

When you say someone is a "governmental public health official", I think many people would reasonably think that this person had some sort of medical training, regardless of semantical dancing around the issue. I for one appreciate the clarification that this is a politician blustering rather than a medical professional saying these things, so I found Smoove's posting to be beneficial.

"Semantical dancing"? I'll take that as a compliment coming from a lawyer.

[dbt1949]

[em2nought]

Maybe Prilosec just makes it worse? People are misinterpreting the shit out of medical clinical studies and trials.

Ok, I'll remove the link for you no problem

[LawBeefaroni]

Doctors in China discovered that those over 80 with heartburn issues and used Pepcid had a higher coronavirus survival than those using pricier drug Prilosec.

Maybe Prilosec just makes it worse? People are misinterpreting the shit out of medical clinical studies and trials.

[Isgrimnur]

CNBC

Texas has reported two consecutive days of record-breaking Covid-19 hospitalizations as the state continues to open businesses and resume activities that were temporarily shuttered due to the coronavirus.

There are currently 2,056 patients sickened with Covid-19 in hospitals across the state as of early Tuesday afternoon, up from a record 1,935 patients Monday, according to updated data from the Texas Department of State Health Services.

Texas was among the first states to relax its statewide stay-at-home order, allowing it to expire April 30 and some businesses to resume operations May 1. On June 3, Gov. Greg Abbott issued an executive order to announce the third phase of the state’s plan to open additional businesses and activities.