[Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

[Sudy]

Well, I meant in contrast to medical grade masks, while still meeting whatever requirements have been set out by various health organizations. I've seen loosely crocheted masks for sale, which would seem to defeat the point.

[Punisher]

I believe at this point most places are saying face coverings are good enough.
Even the CDC.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-n ... ering.html
This is for non-medical professionals. They still have higher ppe requirements for the most part.

[YellowKing]

My dad just tested positive. He had to get tested because he was supposed to go in for some carotid artery surgery this week. Now that has been canceled.

This is frightening because he is 67, has heart problems, high risk of stroke (hence the artery surgery he was having), diabetes, and high blood pressure.

However, he hasn't had any symptoms, so we're crossing our fingers that maybe he's asymptomatic. He's already taking it as an automatic death sentence, because he generally has a pessimistic attitude about all things related to health, doctors, or medicine.

[Paingod]

I'm very sorry to hear that. Fingers crossed for the best outcome. The IT guy in me says "Get a wireless tablet and show him how to use it so you can have remote meetings while he's in quarantine."

[LordMortis]

My dad just tested positive. He had to get tested because he was supposed to go in for some carotid artery surgery this week. Now that has been canceled.

This is frightening because he is 67, has heart problems, high risk of stroke (hence the artery surgery he was having), diabetes, and high blood pressure.

However, he hasn't had any symptoms, so we're crossing our fingers that maybe he's asymptomatic. He's already taking it as an automatic death sentence, because he generally has a pessimistic attitude about all things related to health, doctors, or medicine.

So sorry. It's not a death sentence but I'm terrified for you and him.

[MHS]

My dad just tested positive. He had to get tested because he was supposed to go in for some carotid artery surgery this week. Now that has been canceled.

This is frightening because he is 67, has heart problems, high risk of stroke (hence the artery surgery he was having), diabetes, and high blood pressure.

However, he hasn't had any symptoms, so we're crossing our fingers that maybe he's asymptomatic. He's already taking it as an automatic death sentence, because he generally has a pessimistic attitude about all things related to health, doctors, or medicine.

So sorry to hear. Please keep us updated.

[TheMix]

Yikes! I echo the previous sentiments.

[Lorini]

Sorry to hear that YK

[Lorini]

Taco stand closes in LA because of harassment

These horrible people have no care about anyone but themselves. When the taco stand re-opens, we're going to go and bring them a big bag of store bought cookies (the ones in the white bags) to show how much we care about them and how not everyone is an asshole.

[stessier]

When the taco stand re-opens, we're going to go and bring them a big bag of store bought cookies (the ones in the white bags) to show how much we care about them and how not everyone is an asshole.

I'm not familiar with those cookies, but your phrasing suggests it's well understood. Is it an LA thing?

[Lorini]

When the taco stand re-opens, we're going to go and bring them a big bag of store bought cookies (the ones in the white bags) to show how much we care about them and how not everyone is an asshole.

I'm not familiar with those cookies, but your phrasing suggests it's well understood. Is it an LA thing?

I can't remember what the damned cookies are but they are everywhere. They are in white bags with like chocolate chip cookies or sugar cookies or other types of cookies. I'd really have preferred to make the employees some cookies at home but that's not safe, so bagged it will have to be.

Edit: Pepperidge Farm cookies

[stessier]

When the taco stand re-opens, we're going to go and bring them a big bag of store bought cookies (the ones in the white bags) to show how much we care about them and how not everyone is an asshole.

I'm not familiar with those cookies, but your phrasing suggests it's well understood. Is it an LA thing?

I can't remember what the damned cookies are but they are everywhere. They are in white bags with like chocolate chip cookies or sugar cookies or other types of cookies. I'd really have preferred to make the employees some cookies at home but that's not safe, so bagged it will have to be.

Edit: Pepperidge Farm cookies

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh! I thought it was some generic that a store sold in bulk. Got it!

[Punisher]

When the taco stand re-opens, we're going to go and bring them a big bag of store bought cookies (the ones in the white bags) to show how much we care about them and how not everyone is an asshole.

I'm not familiar with those cookies, but your phrasing suggests it's well understood. Is it an LA thing?

I can't remember what the damned cookies are but they are everywhere. They are in white bags with like chocolate chip cookies or sugar cookies or other types of cookies. I'd really have preferred to make the employees some cookies at home but that's not safe, so bagged it will have to be.

Edit: Pepperidge Farm cookies

That is an awesome thing to do..
Unfortunately, one thing that COVID has taught me is that there are a LOT more selfish assholes in this country then I previously thought possible.
I'm sure they will appreciate this (and hope they can open).
Those "customers" should have all been arrested.

[YellowKing]

Those Pepperidge Farm are fantastic. But too pricey for my budget (hence the reason they make great kindness gestures). That's awesome Lorini.

[Lorini]

They can touch the bags after 72 hours. Keeping the bags outside.

[RunningMn9]

Good luck to your dad YK, I can definitely empathize with it being scary.

[Zaxxon]

Sorry to hear, YK. Best of luck.

[LawBeefaroni]

He's already taking it as an automatic death sentence, because he generally has a pessimistic attitude about all things related to health, doctors, or medicine.

As a pessimist myself, generally that's a good thing because whatever happens, it can't be worse than you expected. But it's not great for fighting a virus or healing.


If my parents or in-laws get it, I'm expecting the worst due to age (91!) or complications (COPD,). But I won't let them expect that.

[Blackhawk]

Damn, YK. Best of luck to you and your dad.

[Daehawk]

The longer this goes on the more it feels like a world killer. A slow one but still one. There will not be a cure, there may not be a vaccine, and there may be no herd immunity if even after you have it you can get it again. If those are all in play then its simply a matter of time before it kills everyone off.

[LawBeefaroni]

The longer this goes on the more it feels like a world killer. A slow one but still one. There will not be a cure, there may not be a vaccine, and there may be no herd immunity if even after you have it you can get it again. If those are all in play then its simply a matter of time before it kills everyone off.

We've survived other viruses that are the same. Heck, we've coexisted with several for centuries if not millennia.

[Max Peck]

This seems like something we could do without for the time being.

Flu virus with 'pandemic potential' found in China

A new strain of flu that has the potential to become a pandemic has been identified in China by scientists.

It emerged recently and is carried by pigs, but can infect humans, they say.

The researchers are concerned that it could mutate further so that it can spread easily from person to person, and trigger a global outbreak.

While it is not an immediate problem, they say, it has "all the hallmarks" of being highly adapted to infect humans and needs close monitoring.

As it's new, people could have little or no immunity to the virus.

The scientists write in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences that measures to control the virus in pigs, and the close monitoring of swine industry workers, should be swiftly implemented.

[Smoove_B]

I was going to post a lengthy discussion why this is something to watch but not be concerned about, but was distracted. So..yeah. Not a pressing concern currently, but it should be monitored.

If you want to read more, this is good stuff.

[em2nought]

The longer this goes on the more it feels like a world killer.

On any given normal day about 8,000 people would die in the USA, for now this virus has increased that number to around 8,750.

Anyone getting a positive test should probably get tested again because Elon Musk says there are lots of false positives. He's the only source mentioning it that I've seen so far.

[Alefroth]

Oh no. Hoping for the best, YK.

[dbt1949]

Good luck to your dad YK.
The youngster.

[YellowKing]

Thanks for the well wishes all. I talked to him awhile ago and he was in good spirits. I told him to let me know ASAP if he starts having any symptoms so I'll keep you in the loop.

[Isgrimnur]

WaPo

When pathologist Amy Rapkiewicz began the grim process of opening up the coronavirus dead to learn how their bodies went awry, she found damage to the lungs, kidneys and liver consistent with what doctors had reported for months.

But something was off.

Rapkiewicz, who directs autopsies at NYU Langone Health, noticed that some organs had far too many of a special cell rarely found in those places. She had never seen that before, yet it seemed vaguely familiar. She raced to her history books and — in a eureka moment — found a reference to 1960′s report on a patient with dengue fever.

In dengue, a mosquito-borne tropical disease, she learned, the virus appeared to destroy these cells, which produce platelets, leading to uncontrolled bleeding. The novel coronavirus seemed to amplify their effect, causing dangerous clotting.

She was struck by the parallels: “Covid-19 and dengue sound really different, but the cells that are involved are similar.”
...
Most recently, a study out this month in the Lancet’s eClinicalMedicine, found abnormal clotting in the heart, kidney, liver, as well as the lungs of seven patients, leading the authors to suggest this may be a major cause of the multiple-organ failure in covid-19 patients.
...
The next organ studied up close was the heart. One of the most frightening early reports about the coronavirus from China was that a significant percent of hospitalized patients — up to 20 to 30 percent — appeared to have a heart issue known as myocarditis that could lead to sudden death. It involves the thickening of the muscle of the heart so that it can no longer pump efficiently.
...
NYU Langone’s Rapkiewicz, who studied seven hearts, was struck by the abundance of a rare cell called megakaryocytes in the heart. Megakaryocytes, which produce platelets that control clotting, typically exist only in the bone marrow and lungs. When she went back to the lung samples from the coronavirus patients, she discovered those cells were too plentiful there, too.
...
Of all the novel coronaviruses’s manifestations, its impact on the brain has been among the most vexing. Patients have reported a host of neurological impairments including reduced ability to smell or taste, altered mental status, stroke, seizures — even delirium.
...
Based on such data and anecdotal reports, Isaac Solomon, a neuropathologist at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, set out to systematically investigate where the virus might be embedding itself in the brain. He conducted autopsies of 18 consecutive deaths, taking slices of key areas: the cerebral cortex (the gray matter responsible for information processing), thalamus (modulates sensory inputs), basal ganglia (responsible for motor control) and others. Each was divided into a three-dimensional grid. Ten sections were taken from each and studied.

He found snippets of virus in only some areas, and it was unclear whether they were dead remnants, or active virus when the patient died. There were only small pockets of inflammation. But there were large swaths of damage due to oxygen deprivation. Whether the deceased were longtime intensive care patients, or people who died suddenly, Solomon said, the pattern was eerily similar.
...
The team from Mount Sinai Health, which took tissue findings from 20 brains, was also perplexed not to find a lot of virus or inflammation. However, the group noted in a paper that the widespread presence of tiny clots was “striking.”

[Freyland]

WaPo

When pathologist Amy Rapkiewicz began the grim process of opening up the coronavirus dead to learn how their bodies went awry, she found damage to the lungs, kidneys and liver consistent with what doctors had reported for months.

But something was off.

Rapkiewicz, who directs autopsies at NYU Langone Health, noticed that some organs had far too many of a special cell rarely found in those places. She had never seen that before, yet it seemed vaguely familiar. She raced to her history books and — in a eureka moment — found a reference to 1960′s report on a patient with dengue fever.

In dengue, a mosquito-borne tropical disease, she learned, the virus appeared to destroy these cells, which produce platelets, leading to uncontrolled bleeding. The novel coronavirus seemed to amplify their effect, causing dangerous clotting.

She was struck by the parallels: “Covid-19 and dengue sound really different, but the cells that are involved are similar.”
...
Most recently, a study out this month in the Lancet’s eClinicalMedicine, found abnormal clotting in the heart, kidney, liver, as well as the lungs of seven patients, leading the authors to suggest this may be a major cause of the multiple-organ failure in covid-19 patients.
...
The next organ studied up close was the heart. One of the most frightening early reports about the coronavirus from China was that a significant percent of hospitalized patients — up to 20 to 30 percent — appeared to have a heart issue known as myocarditis that could lead to sudden death. It involves the thickening of the muscle of the heart so that it can no longer pump efficiently.
...
NYU Langone’s Rapkiewicz, who studied seven hearts, was struck by the abundance of a rare cell called megakaryocytes in the heart. Megakaryocytes, which produce platelets that control clotting, typically exist only in the bone marrow and lungs. When she went back to the lung samples from the coronavirus patients, she discovered those cells were too plentiful there, too.
...
Of all the novel coronaviruses’s manifestations, its impact on the brain has been among the most vexing. Patients have reported a host of neurological impairments including reduced ability to smell or taste, altered mental status, stroke, seizures — even delirium.
...
Based on such data and anecdotal reports, Isaac Solomon, a neuropathologist at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, set out to systematically investigate where the virus might be embedding itself in the brain. He conducted autopsies of 18 consecutive deaths, taking slices of key areas: the cerebral cortex (the gray matter responsible for information processing), thalamus (modulates sensory inputs), basal ganglia (responsible for motor control) and others. Each was divided into a three-dimensional grid. Ten sections were taken from each and studied.

He found snippets of virus in only some areas, and it was unclear whether they were dead remnants, or active virus when the patient died. There were only small pockets of inflammation. But there were large swaths of damage due to oxygen deprivation. Whether the deceased were longtime intensive care patients, or people who died suddenly, Solomon said, the pattern was eerily similar.
...
The team from Mount Sinai Health, which took tissue findings from 20 brains, was also perplexed not to find a lot of virus or inflammation. However, the group noted in a paper that the widespread presence of tiny clots was “striking.”

Suspect the "Blood-Brain Barrier" will be credited for the lack of megakaryocytes since it doesn't let in larger cells unless inflamed, but that would still be permeable to platelets and the cytokines that make them turn sticky.

[Alefroth]

WaPo

When pathologist Amy Rapkiewicz began the grim process of opening up the coronavirus dead to learn how their bodies went awry, she found damage to the lungs, kidneys and liver consistent with what doctors had reported for months.

But something was off.

Rapkiewicz, who directs autopsies at NYU Langone Health, noticed that some organs had far too many of a special cell rarely found in those places. She had never seen that before, yet it seemed vaguely familiar. She raced to her history books and — in a eureka moment — found a reference to 1960′s report on a patient with dengue fever.

In dengue, a mosquito-borne tropical disease, she learned, the virus appeared to destroy these cells, which produce platelets, leading to uncontrolled bleeding. The novel coronavirus seemed to amplify their effect, causing dangerous clotting.

She was struck by the parallels: “Covid-19 and dengue sound really different, but the cells that are involved are similar.”
...
Most recently, a study out this month in the Lancet’s eClinicalMedicine, found abnormal clotting in the heart, kidney, liver, as well as the lungs of seven patients, leading the authors to suggest this may be a major cause of the multiple-organ failure in covid-19 patients.
...
The next organ studied up close was the heart. One of the most frightening early reports about the coronavirus from China was that a significant percent of hospitalized patients — up to 20 to 30 percent — appeared to have a heart issue known as myocarditis that could lead to sudden death. It involves the thickening of the muscle of the heart so that it can no longer pump efficiently.
...
NYU Langone’s Rapkiewicz, who studied seven hearts, was struck by the abundance of a rare cell called megakaryocytes in the heart. Megakaryocytes, which produce platelets that control clotting, typically exist only in the bone marrow and lungs. When she went back to the lung samples from the coronavirus patients, she discovered those cells were too plentiful there, too.
...
Of all the novel coronaviruses’s manifestations, its impact on the brain has been among the most vexing. Patients have reported a host of neurological impairments including reduced ability to smell or taste, altered mental status, stroke, seizures — even delirium.
...
Based on such data and anecdotal reports, Isaac Solomon, a neuropathologist at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, set out to systematically investigate where the virus might be embedding itself in the brain. He conducted autopsies of 18 consecutive deaths, taking slices of key areas: the cerebral cortex (the gray matter responsible for information processing), thalamus (modulates sensory inputs), basal ganglia (responsible for motor control) and others. Each was divided into a three-dimensional grid. Ten sections were taken from each and studied.

He found snippets of virus in only some areas, and it was unclear whether they were dead remnants, or active virus when the patient died. There were only small pockets of inflammation. But there were large swaths of damage due to oxygen deprivation. Whether the deceased were longtime intensive care patients, or people who died suddenly, Solomon said, the pattern was eerily similar.
...
The team from Mount Sinai Health, which took tissue findings from 20 brains, was also perplexed not to find a lot of virus or inflammation. However, the group noted in a paper that the widespread presence of tiny clots was “striking.”

So what you're saying is it's just like the flu?

[LawBeefaroni]

So what you're saying is it's just like the flu?

With zombie potential.

[noxiousdog]

My dad just tested positive. He had to get tested because he was supposed to go in for some carotid artery surgery this week. Now that has been canceled.

This is frightening because he is 67, has heart problems, high risk of stroke (hence the artery surgery he was having), diabetes, and high blood pressure.

However, he hasn't had any symptoms, so we're crossing our fingers that maybe he's asymptomatic. He's already taking it as an automatic death sentence, because he generally has a pessimistic attitude about all things related to health, doctors, or medicine.

Good luck. Hope he comes through.

[Blackhawk]

WaPo

When pathologist Amy Rapkiewicz began the grim process of opening up the coronavirus dead to learn how their bodies went awry, she found damage to the lungs, kidneys and liver consistent with what doctors had reported for months.

[snip]

This is another reason why, even if there is never a vaccine, even if there is no herd immunity, slowing it down can matter. The more time that passes, the better we understand it. The better we understand it, the better the treatments. The better the treatments, the fewer people who die.

[Brian]

The wife and I got our tests done today.
It was...unpleasant...but not particularly painful or anything.

For the test they basically rammed a swab so far up my nose that I saw stars. Wife was phased more than I was and said she'd prefer never having to do that again.

We should have our results by Friday.

[UsulofDoom]

I sorry but I still can't find real facts on the virus.

What temperatures kill the virus. The high and low?
What humidity kills it?

Does it survive in frozen food?

CDC site has no facts.

They sill don't explain masks.
SURGICAL MASKS DO NOT POTECT THE PERSONE WERING THEM!

[RunningMn9]

Wat?

[Kraken]

Welcome back, Usal.

[UsulofDoom]

Welcome back, Usal.

I'm sorry did I miss the answers some were?
And it's Usul.

[Kraken]

Welcome back, Usal.

I'm sorry did I miss the answers some were?
And it's Usul.

Oops, sorry.

It's bedtime so I'm not going to google all of that for you. That's what we pay Isgrimnur for. The science is still in flux on all fronts, because that's how science works, but foodborne transmission appears to be near zero. Your masks line is just a troll.

[Paingod]

I sorry but I still can't find real facts on the virus.

What temperatures kill the virus. The high and low?
What humidity kills it?

Does it survive in frozen food?

CDC site has no facts.

They sill don't explain masks.
SURGICAL MASKS DO NOT POTECT THE PERSONE WERING THEM!

The quick summary of what I think I know ( Smoove help me if I'm wrong):

• Temperatures that kill people would likely kill the virus; likewise temperatures that don't kill people probably don't kill the virus. Hand driers in restrooms don't get hot enough to kill it. If you want something hot enough to kill the virus, cook it. UV bombardment from "disinfecting lights" may also work.
• The virus can exist outside a host for typically 24-72 hours. 24 hours on surfaces like paper and cardboard. 72 hours on surfaces like stainless steel. A good practice for deliveries in cardboard boxes is to leave them somewhere safe for a day before handling them.
• I expect that the virus enjoys humidity because it lives in droplets from lungs. Don't expect humidity to kill it, but rather possibly extend its life.
• While it was still regularly freezing out, I read that it could theoretically survive freezing and thawing, meaning it could reactivate after being frozen. Don't count on frozen food being sterile. Since we're talking about freezing temps here, assume the virus can survive any normal low temp between freezing and 80ºF.
• The virus is fully capable of hitching a ride on clothing and shoes.
• The virus can enter any wet/mucus membrane on the body - eyes, nose, mouth.
• The more "viral load" you're exposed to, the more likely it is you'll get sick - and maybe even more severely. This is why it's so dangerous for healthcare workers right now, and why your average store should be protecting employees with masks and shields - as well as expecting patrons to wear masks.
• The virus is disproportionately hammering minorities as they tend to occupy more "essential" jobs and can't rely so easily on being laid off and collect unemployment. Poor communities are likewise having trouble since social distancing is harder and proper PPE is more scarce.
• The virus has a lethality scale that ramps up drastically to over 20% fatal at over 70 years of age. While younger people are more likely to require less hospitalization, they can still suffer debilitating (and potentially permanent) side-effects. Ask Punisher how things smell right now.
• The reason they say washing or sanitizing for 20 seconds can kill it is that the soap or alcohol breaks down the lipid layer around the virus that it needs to survive. This is why everyone is being urged to wash their hands regularly. Wearing gloves won't help if you're touching things and then touching your face. Wearing gloves only helps if you wear them, stop touching anything that may have been contaminated, and then take them off before touching yourself.
• The CDC site is being hamstrung by the current administration. If you're having trouble finding data there, thank the sitting President.
• Everyone's explained masks. A really good medical-grade N95 rated mask can filter out the virus, but the virus will be alive in the filter for some time, so treat it like a bio-hazard. These are what are keeping doctors and nurses alive. The typical masks you find on the street are of varying quality. A single-ply cotton mask is going to be less effective than a double-ply or other materials that have tighter weaves. The purpose of the mask for the general public is to stop YOU from exhaling droplets into a wide range around you and limit your spread. If we ALL wear masks, we keep everyone safe. Anyone who isn't wearing a mask right now is basically telling everyone around them "Hey, fuck you buddy. I don't care if I get your wife, kids, parents and grandparents sick. I don't care if I kill your immunocompromised husband."
• Ultimately there is no "perfect" way to avoid getting sick. If everyone did the best they can to keep themselves safe and worked to help stop others from getting sick regardless of whether or not you're infected, the USA would be in much better shape than it is right now. It's not a political issue to wear a mask and wash your hands. It's an issue of wanting to not kill others and enduring minor inconveniences to do it.

I hope that helps. If it doesn't, here's some myths that have been busted about the virus. If that's still not helpful enough, try this site; it's free and easy to use.