Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

[Paingod]

Well it isn't like the CDC needs data when you have fine thinking like this going on.

In the news craziness, you might have missed bombshell from the CDC Director

In a swipe at Dr. Fauci, @CDCDirector Dr Redfield claimed explosion of cases in the South NOT due to opening up too much / too fast.

So what does Dr. Redfield think it is? Its the northerners

So the assertion here is that the South's COVID spike is actually the start of the second War of Northern Aggression?

[Isgrimnur]

It's played well for the last 155 years.

[Smoove_B]

And now their night terrors are our night terrors! I think I'll keep this knowledge safely tucked away from anyone I don't want to torture.

I feel like friends and family members are actively avoiding me because I'm always +1 about something.

I am legitimately happy that (so far) there haven't been any increases in mosquito-borne illnesses in NJ, though the peak for that will be another few months. But by all accounts mosquito control is continuing even during the pandemic - which was one of my initial fears. So we have that going for us - which is nice.

[malchior]

I look forward to my annual mosquito control visit then. My ridiculous busy body neighbors call the county every year if I don't close my pool immediately after labor day.

[Zaxxon]

... little to nothing on what to do once we're open when the inevitable outbreak happens. Testing/tracing, etc. Which is super-important, obviously.

I believe that once schools open and kids mingle, testing and tracing will come down to opening a map of the city and just drawing a circle around it. I give it extremely poor odds on them being able to keep track of which kid came near which other when someone does get sick... so it just ends up being everyone.

Certainly possible. But if there's to be any chance that I send my own kids back in, there's got to be some form of plan in place with somewhat objective criteria.

[Smoove_B]

IS THAT TONY FAUCHI GIVING AN INTERVIEW TO THE ATLANTIC???

As much as Trump wants and needs Americans to see the virus as a nuisance that’s soon to be overcome, Fauci is a recurring reminder that the crisis remains a grave and enduring threat, and that Trump has mishandled the pandemic. The Americans who believe the White House’s anti-science campaign risk cutting themselves off from potentially life-saving information.

“I cannot figure out in my wildest dreams why they would want to do that,” Fauci told The Atlantic, in reference to the White House document. “I think they realize now that that was not a prudent thing to do, because it’s only reflecting negatively on them.

“I can’t explain Peter Navarro,” he added. “He’s in a world by himself.”

...

The Atlantic: There’s been some reporting that the Trump administration has tried to cut back on your TV interviews. Isn’t it important at this moment for the nation and the world to hear from you?

Fauci: I can’t make a comment on that, but I think you know what the answer to that is.

The Atlantic: Can you update us on your relationship with the president?

Fauci: Well, the scene has changed a bit. When we were having frequent press briefings, I had the opportunity to have a personal one-on-one to talk to the president. I haven’t done that in a while. But a day does not go by that I am not in contact with Debbie Birx [the White House coronavirus-response coordinator], with Bob Redfield [the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention], or Steve Hahn [the commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration] and others. My input to the president goes through the vice president. But clearly, the vice president—literally every day—is listening to what we have to say, there’s no doubt about that.

[Zaxxon]

Props for a superbly-appropriate choice of GIF.

[Holman]

I'm also concerned with the fact that if one chooses e-learning, you're locked into that all year (though the realist in me thinks that'll work out just fine, the optimist worries that all is well for the spring semester but my kids are stuck at home).

Like your school, my kids' district is offering a choice between 2-days/week in person or fully online, and all signs point to it being a full year commitment one way or the other. I really wish we had the ability to switch midyear at least.

Actually I really wish we could re-choose every month or two. Ideally I'd want my kids to stay remote the first month or two while this horrible experiment plays out across the country, then maybe try putting them in person, but then have the option to get 'em out again if in-person proves to be horrible.

I'll be surprised if (assuming there's no spike to send everyone into lockdown again) teachers don't push for a re-evaluation each semester if not each quarter. They'll be teaching in-person 4 days a week *and* having to prepare all the same material for remote teaching at the same time. It'll be a huge amount of work.

Philadelphia just announced a 2-day/week A/B schedule with a fully remote option and fully in-person instruction for students who require it due to IEPs or disability accommodations. This puts teacher workloads through the roof.

The teachers were already talking about the virus risk as a major concern. I'm about half expecting them to strike. I think I would.

[El Guapo]

Navarro is one of the worst. He is a know nothing. Weirder yet, Navarro used to be one of the most progressive economists in the nation when he was tooling around in California. Now he is all #MAGA.

As always, should you or any of your IM Force be caught or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions. This tape/discTweet will self-destruct in five/ten seconds.

https://twitter.com/TheRickWilson/statu ... 6470248450

The other crazy thing is that, as David Frum points out, the story that Navarro was acting on his own is in many ways worse for the administration.

https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/12 ... HKvc8jAAAA

They're almost certainly lying that Navarro was acting rogue, but that that's their story here is bonkers.

[malchior]

Of course it's nuts. If he went rogue then what is the consequence. If didn't go rogue, well that speaks for itself too. The Trump administration is so off the wall that no one even knows how to properly describe it anymore. His Rose Garden speech yesterday was just a rambling, coherent mess but we just shrug it off. I truly don't understand how we come back from this. We have no standards anymore. They simply don't exist.

[Smoove_B]

Props for a superbly-appropriate choice of GIF.

Trying to up my game in a thread that changes by the hour.

His Rose Garden speech yesterday was just a rambling, coherent mess but we just shrug it off.

I thought yesterday's insanity was being attributed to not being able to have a rally in New Hampshire? That his Rose Garden speech was his attempt to have a mini-rally on camera for the press? Clearly not being able to get all whacked out on pills and feed off hate muppets at a rally is getting to him to some degree.

[malchior]

I thought yesterday's insanity was being attributed to not being able to have a rally in New Hampshire? That his Rose Garden speech was his attempt to have a mini-rally on camera for the press? Clearly not being able to get all whacked out on pills and feed off hate muppets at a rally is getting to him to some degree.

It was but it was disordered even by hate rally standards. Call it deteriorating capacity or being overtaxed or whatever people want to ascribe it to but he was incoherent by *his own low standards* yesterday. No one knows how to deal with it. And the sociopaths that orbit him see opportunity to try to trade in the currency of the administration which is earned by playing mean, vindictive games. And Americans are dying because of it. Everyday is the worst day in the history of the American Presidency just because he continues to occupy the office.

Exhibit Infinity - 1:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1283467919100452864

[Smoove_B]

I need there to be a purge in January. I need it in my soul.

Better news - the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine has officially released their report on K-12 schools reopening. Note, this is a 110+ page document (linked here), created by over 50 people on various committees.

While it will be impossible for schools to entirely eliminate the risk of COVID-19, the report says, young children in particular will be impacted by not having in-person learning and may suffer long-term academic consequences if they fall behind as a result. In grades K-3, children are still developing the skills to regulate their own behavior, emotions, and attention, and therefore struggle with distance learning. Schools should prioritize reopening for grades K-5 and for students with special needs who would be best served by in-person instruction.

“This pandemic has laid bare the deep, enduring inequities that afflict our country and our schools,” said Enriqueta Bond, chair of the committee that authored the report. “Many of the communities hardest hit by the virus are also home to schools with the least resources and the greatest challenges. Education leaders need to be careful when making the decision to reopen to not exacerbate these inequities.”

I haven't read it all yet, but I think it communicates what the general consensus was that I was seeing over the last few weeks. School right now should be focused on younger grades and older students should be learning online.

Of additional note:

The report also recommends schools and districts take the following precautions to protect staff and students:

Provide surgical masks for all teachers and staff. All students and staff should wear face masks. Younger children may have difficulty using face masks, but schools should encourage compliance.
Provide hand washing stations or hand sanitizer for all people who enter school buildings, minimize contact with shared surfaces, and increase regular surface cleaning.
Limit large gatherings of students, such as during assemblies, in the cafeteria, and overcrowding at school entrances, possibly by staggering arrival times.
Reorganize classrooms to enable physical distancing, such as by limiting class sizes or moving instruction to larger spaces. The report says cohorting, when a group of 10 students or less stay with the same staff as much as possible, is a promising strategy for physical distancing.
Prioritize cleaning, ventilation, and air filtration, while recognizing that these alone will not sufficiently lower the risk of COVID-19 transmission.
Create a culture of health and safety in every school, and enforce virus mitigation guidelines using positive approaches rather than by disciplining students.

The report says the cost of implementing these COVID-19 precautions will be very high, totaling approximately $1.8 million for a school district with eight school buildings and around 3,200 students. These costs are coming at a financially uncertain moment for many school districts, and could lead to funding shortfalls. While the size of the funding shortfall will depend on how well-resourced a school district is, many districts will be unable to afford implementing the entire suite of mitigation measures, potentially leaving students and staff in those districts at greater risk of infection.

[raydude]

Oklahoma Governor is the first US governor to test positive for coronavirus.

This is the dude who posted a pic of himself and his family going out to eat at a restaurant in March. And he had this to say:

He said he'll be quarantining and working from home, and that he was "pretty shocked" to be the first governor to get the virus.

Seriously dude?

[El Guapo]

Just got the news that my cousin-in-law's wedding in NJ, which was supposed to be at the end of August (after being postponed from June) has been postponed to an unknown date in 2021. Which I mean, of course it was, but glad that they did the right thing, even though it sucks for them.

[stessier]

The report says the cost of implementing these COVID-19 precautions will be very high, totaling approximately $1.8 million for a school district with eight school buildings and around 3,200 students. These costs are coming at a financially uncertain moment for many school districts, and could lead to funding shortfalls. While the size of the funding shortfall will depend on how well-resourced a school district is, many districts will be unable to afford implementing the entire suite of mitigation measures, potentially leaving students and staff in those districts at greater risk of infection.

My district has 76k students in it...so they're saying it will be a bit more than 1.8 million. Interesting.

[Blackhawk]

Ours never asked our position.

Oh, and next Saturday is Ian's graduation. It's inside the gym, and while the graduating class is only about 80 students, which is small, they're allowed six guests each. With staff, that's ~600 people in the gym.

I'm so tired of stupid.

Well, the Governor just delayed the final phase of reopening for a couple more weeks. They scheduled this for the first day of the final phase, so this seriously screws up my son's graduation.

Thank god.

It takes us from 6 guests per student to 2, so we'll only have 250 unmasked rednecks crowded into a school gym, cheering, for two hours.

[malchior]

The report says the cost of implementing these COVID-19 precautions will be very high, totaling approximately $1.8 million for a school district with eight school buildings and around 3,200 students. These costs are coming at a financially uncertain moment for many school districts, and could lead to funding shortfalls. While the size of the funding shortfall will depend on how well-resourced a school district is, many districts will be unable to afford implementing the entire suite of mitigation measures, potentially leaving students and staff in those districts at greater risk of infection.

My district has 76k students in it...so they're saying it will be a bit more than 1.8 million. Interesting.

This has the potential to be a hot button topic in NJ. The state was forced to cut school aid and some towns are going to be forced to raise taxes...a lot. I'm actually waiting to get my tax bill for the coming quarter because my town had the 5th highest cuts. The school portion of my assessment is already something like 6500 per year and some people are saying we'll get hit with a 15-20% increase. In the midst of all this shit...it is going to be ugly.

[El Guapo]

The report says the cost of implementing these COVID-19 precautions will be very high, totaling approximately $1.8 million for a school district with eight school buildings and around 3,200 students. These costs are coming at a financially uncertain moment for many school districts, and could lead to funding shortfalls. While the size of the funding shortfall will depend on how well-resourced a school district is, many districts will be unable to afford implementing the entire suite of mitigation measures, potentially leaving students and staff in those districts at greater risk of infection.

My district has 76k students in it...so they're saying it will be a bit more than 1.8 million. Interesting.

This has the potential to be a hot button topic in NJ. The state was forced to cut school aid and some towns are going to be forced to raise taxes...a lot. I'm actually waiting to get my tax bill for the coming quarter because my town had the 5th highest cuts. The school portion of my assessment is already something like 6500 per year and some people are saying we'll get hit with a 15-20% increase. In the midst of all this shit...it is going to be ugly.

You know what would be smart? If we had some sort of "federal" government above the state level, that could effectively borrow near unlimited amounts of money over the short to medium term, and that could transfer some of that money to states to help them get through a crisis like this without having to make incredibly damaging and painful cuts.

I know it sounds crazy, but I think it just might work.

[malchior]

You know what would be smart? If we had some sort of "federal" government above the state level, that could effectively borrow near unlimited amounts of money over the short to medium term, and that could transfer some of that money to states to help them get through a crisis like this without having to make incredibly damaging and painful cuts.

I know it sounds crazy, but I think it just might work.

Why should those red states continue to subsidize our socialist un-american and corrupt state governments? As an aside, I appreciate the rational way that people are discussing the back-to-school issues here. My local town feed is...pure insanity. The comments are just insane. I now understand why Parks & Rec was done in the mockumentary format.

[Zaxxon]

You know what would be smart? If we had some sort of "federal" government above the state level, that could effectively borrow near unlimited amounts of money over the short to medium term, and that could transfer some of that money to states to help them get through a crisis like this without having to make incredibly damaging and painful cuts.

I know it sounds crazy, but I think it just might work.

Why should those red states continue to subsidize our socialist un-american and corrupt state governments? As an aside, I appreciate the rational way that people are discussing the back-to-school issues here. My local town feed is...pure insanity. The comments are just insane. I now understand why Parks & Rec was done in the mockumentary format.

Meanwhile, in Denver...

https://twitter.com/jordan_chavez/statu ... 93824?s=12

[El Guapo]

You know what would be smart? If we had some sort of "federal" government above the state level, that could effectively borrow near unlimited amounts of money over the short to medium term, and that could transfer some of that money to states to help them get through a crisis like this without having to make incredibly damaging and painful cuts.

I know it sounds crazy, but I think it just might work.

Why should those red states continue to subsidize our socialist un-american and corrupt state governments? As an aside, I appreciate the rational way that people are discussing the back-to-school issues here. My local town feed is...pure insanity. The comments are just insane. I now understand why Parks & Rec was done in the mockumentary format.

I am actually in the process of working my way through Parks & Rec now (just started season 6). It's fantastic (Mike Schur is a damn genius), but it's also super weird to watch it in the current political environment. Both seeing the town craziness in general, and also seeing Leslie Knope's worship of Joe Biden (easily the most enthusiasm I've seen for Joe Biden to date).

[Kasey Chang]

Hong Kong covidiot assaults McD worker for refusing to serve him when he refused to mask up. That's gotta make a good impression on your female companion... Wait, she wasn't masked either...

In other news...

Did Chuck Woolery get instant karma when he tweeted COVID was a lie, then next day, found out his son caught COVID-19?

Huntington Beach mask-denier bicycler wants to fight two dudes handing out free masks for "denying him his rights to go mask-free" because they asked him "you want a mask, dude?"

[Enough]

You know what would be smart? If we had some sort of "federal" government above the state level, that could effectively borrow near unlimited amounts of money over the short to medium term, and that could transfer some of that money to states to help them get through a crisis like this without having to make incredibly damaging and painful cuts.

I know it sounds crazy, but I think it just might work.

Why should those red states continue to subsidize our socialist un-american and corrupt state governments? As an aside, I appreciate the rational way that people are discussing the back-to-school issues here. My local town feed is...pure insanity. The comments are just insane. I now understand why Parks & Rec was done in the mockumentary format.

I am actually in the process of working my way through Parks & Rec now (just started season 6). It's fantastic (Mike Schur is a damn genius), but it's also super weird to watch it in the current political environment. Both seeing the town craziness in general, and also seeing Leslie Knope's worship of Joe Biden (easily the most enthusiasm I've seen for Joe Biden to date).

I'm about done with my second watching, it really is perfect in some ways for right now.

[msteelers]

You know what would be smart? If we had some sort of "federal" government above the state level, that could effectively borrow near unlimited amounts of money over the short to medium term, and that could transfer some of that money to states to help them get through a crisis like this without having to make incredibly damaging and painful cuts.

I know it sounds crazy, but I think it just might work.

Why should those red states continue to subsidize our socialist un-american and corrupt state governments? As an aside, I appreciate the rational way that people are discussing the back-to-school issues here. My local town feed is...pure insanity. The comments are just insane. I now understand why Parks & Rec was done in the mockumentary format.

I am actually in the process of working my way through Parks & Rec now (just started season 6). It's fantastic (Mike Schur is a damn genius), but it's also super weird to watch it in the current political environment. Both seeing the town craziness in general, and also seeing Leslie Knope's worship of Joe Biden (easily the most enthusiasm I've seen for Joe Biden to date).

I'm about done with my second watching, it really is perfect in some ways for right now.

I've never seen the show, but it's on my to-do list right after we finish The Office.

Based on my calculations, we'll wrap up The Office by October. Just in time for the baby to be born. So I'm thinking we'll get to Parks & Rec in... 2030?

[Holman]

I am actually in the process of working my way through Parks & Rec now (just started season 6). It's fantastic (Mike Schur is a damn genius), but it's also super weird to watch it in the current political environment. Both seeing the town craziness in general, and also seeing Leslie Knope's worship of Joe Biden (easily the most enthusiasm I've seen for Joe Biden to date).

I've been doing the same. But I had to google "Mike Schur" to confirm that he was the showrunner/whatever, and the moment I saw him I said "Holy Shit, that's Mose!" I'd had no idea.

What strikes me as most weird about Parks & Rec is that the representative conservative character is presented as so stable and sane and free of seething hatred for someone like Leslie.

[LordMortis]

Did Chuck Woolery get instant karma when he tweeted COVID was a lie, then next day, found out his son caught COVID-19?

You don't wish people ill but damned if you don't want a teaching moment somehow and if his family emerges in two weeks unscathed, it becomes a matter of the tough get through it. We got hit, we got through it. The media has this all blown out of proportion.

...

On a personal this can suck note, I found out a coworker's otherwise perfectly healthy 20 year old son has been cleared of a Covid infection since April. His lungs are still fucked 2.5 months later. They have no idea if there will be a long term rehab. He's an example of young and healthy and not dying and getting through it. I have no idea how common that is but seemingly lifelong debilitation now is a side effect of 50% of all cases in someone I personally know, 100% of which are 20 and under.

[malchior]

I've never seen the show, but it's on my to-do list right after we finish The Office.

Based on my calculations, we'll wrap up The Office by October. Just in time for the baby to be born. So I'm thinking we'll get to Parks & Rec in... 2030?

Boilerplate warning for anyone tackling P&R - the first season is rough. Some find it real rough. The 2nd season fixes all issues and the show is excellent from that point on.

[stessier]

I am actually in the process of working my way through Parks & Rec now (just started season 6). It's fantastic (Mike Schur is a damn genius), but it's also super weird to watch it in the current political environment. Both seeing the town craziness in general, and also seeing Leslie Knope's worship of Joe Biden (easily the most enthusiasm I've seen for Joe Biden to date).

I've been doing the same. But I had to google "Mike Schur" to confirm that he was the showrunner/whatever, and the moment I saw him I said "Holy Shit, that's Mose!" I'd had no idea.

What strikes me as most weird about Parks & Rec is that the representative conservative character is presented as so stable and sane and free of seething hatred for someone like Leslie.

He's libertarian...and it's stated that he hated her and tried to get her fired a number of times before she won him over. He still hates her view of government and tries to stop it, but he likes, respects, and admires her.

[Holman]

I am actually in the process of working my way through Parks & Rec now (just started season 6). It's fantastic (Mike Schur is a damn genius), but it's also super weird to watch it in the current political environment. Both seeing the town craziness in general, and also seeing Leslie Knope's worship of Joe Biden (easily the most enthusiasm I've seen for Joe Biden to date).

I've been doing the same. But I had to google "Mike Schur" to confirm that he was the showrunner/whatever, and the moment I saw him I said "Holy Shit, that's Mose!" I'd had no idea.

What strikes me as most weird about Parks & Rec is that the representative conservative character is presented as so stable and sane and free of seething hatred for someone like Leslie.

He's libertarian...and it's stated that he hated her and tried to get her fired a number of times before she won him over. He still hates her view of government and tries to stop it, but he likes, respects, and admires her.

Oh, I know. But it's also pretty clear that he exists to give conservative viewers someone to like.

I guess what I really mean is that left-right tension on this show about government is so nonexistent that it feels like Leave It to Beaver.

Think of all the hilarious scenes they do with citizen testimony, and compare it to what we actually see around masks and Covid.

[El Guapo]

I am actually in the process of working my way through Parks & Rec now (just started season 6). It's fantastic (Mike Schur is a damn genius), but it's also super weird to watch it in the current political environment. Both seeing the town craziness in general, and also seeing Leslie Knope's worship of Joe Biden (easily the most enthusiasm I've seen for Joe Biden to date).

I've been doing the same. But I had to google "Mike Schur" to confirm that he was the showrunner/whatever, and the moment I saw him I said "Holy Shit, that's Mose!" I'd had no idea.

What strikes me as most weird about Parks & Rec is that the representative conservative character is presented as so stable and sane and free of seething hatred for someone like Leslie.

He's libertarian...and it's stated that he hated her and tried to get her fired a number of times before she won him over. He still hates her view of government and tries to stop it, but he likes, respects, and admires her.

Oh, I know. But it's also pretty clear that he exists to give conservative viewers someone to like.

I guess what I really mean is that left-right tension on this show about government is so nonexistent that it feels like Leave It to Beaver.

Think of all the hilarious scenes they do with citizen testimony, and compare it to what we actually see around masks and Covid.

I dunno, I think he exists more because Nick Offerman is hilarious.

[Holman]

Well, that too, of course.

[Alefroth]

They're almost certainly lying that Navarro was acting rogue, but that that's their story here is bonkers.

What a time to be alive, when you have to preface a statement by the White House Director of Strategic Communications with, 'if they are telling the truth'.

[stessier]

Think of all the hilarious scenes they do with citizen testimony, and compare it to what we actually see around masks and Covid.

I thought they did a nice job capturing the insanity without the vitriol. I see your point.

[stessier]

I dunno, I think he exists more because Nick Offerman is hilarious.

I'm rewatching for the fourth time and just got to the episodes where he has to think about his future (ie. health and will). His expressions and delivery are really fantastic to watch.

[El Guapo]

Also I recall reading about how the showrunners to some degree built the characters around the actors. Nick Offerman has a woodwork shop in his house, and while on an early call about the show he said to hold for a minute because he had to finish sawing a piece of wood. They thought that was hilarious, and that factored into their decision to make Swanson this "do everything yourself" woodsy libertarian.

[El Guapo]

They're almost certainly lying that Navarro was acting rogue, but that that's their story here is bonkers.

What a time to be alive, when you have to preface a statement by the White House Director of Strategic Communications with, 'if they are telling the truth'.

Yeah, especially since the default assumption in this type of situation is that they're lying.

[stessier]

Also I recall reading about how the showrunners to some degree built the characters around the actors. Nick Offerman has a woodwork shop in his house, and while on an early call about the show he said to hold for a minute because he had to finish sawing a piece of wood. They thought that was hilarious, and that factored into their decision to make Swanson this "do everything yourself" woodsy libertarian.

They also worked in his sax playing. And his wife.

[Max Peck]

I have no idea how common that is but seemingly lifelong debilitation now is a side effect of 50% of all cases in someone I personally know, 100% of which are 20 and under.

Apparently it may be very common.

Two months after infection, COVID-19 symptoms persist

As the COVID-19 pandemic continues unabated in many countries, an ever-growing group of people is being shifted from the "infected" to the "recovered" category. But are they truly recovered? A lot of anecdotal reports have indicated that many of those with severe infections are experiencing a difficult recovery, with lingering symptoms, some of which remain debilitating. Now, there's a small study out of Italy in which a group of infected people was tracked for an average of 60 days after their infection was discovered. And the study confirms that symptoms remain long after there's no detectable virus.

The study was incredibly simple in design. Patients being treated in Rome for COVID-19 were asked to participate in a tracking study. Overall, 143 patients agreed and were enrolled in the study following a negative test for the presence of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. The group ranged from 19 to 85 years old, with an average age of 57. Overall, they had spent an average of 13 days in the hospital while infected, and about 20 percent had needed assistance with breathing.

Roughly 60 days later, the researchers followed up with an assessment of these patients. Two months after there was no detectable virus, only 13 percent of the study group was free of any COVID-19 symptoms. By contrast, a bit over half still had at least three symptoms typical of the disease.

[pr0ner]

Of course it's nuts. If he went rogue then what is the consequence. If didn't go rogue, well that speaks for itself too. The Trump administration is so off the wall that no one even knows how to properly describe it anymore. His Rose Garden speech yesterday was just a rambling, coherent mess but we just shrug it off. I truly don't understand how we come back from this. We have no standards anymore. They simply don't exist.

Do you have macros built into OO for your posts in R&P? Because you say the same things over and over and over again in so many threads.