Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:43 pm

Since hydroxychloroquine is trending again today thanks to Dr. Sleeps-With-Demons, this data seems notable.

Roughly 1,300 patients at Department of Veterans Affairs medical facilities have received hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 since late March, according to VA Secretary Robert Wilkie.

In a letter to Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-New York, this week, Wilkie said that, between Feb. 1 and April 23, the VA purchased more than 6.3 million tablets of the antimalarial drug, which was approved by the Food and Drug Administration in late March on an emergency use basis to treat the novel coronavirus.

A retrospective review of the use of hydroxychloroquine on VA patients with COVID-19 showed that 28% of veterans who received the drug died; 22% of those who received hydroxychloroquine, along with the antibiotic azithromycin, also died, while just 11% of patients in the study who received standard care died.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:48 pm

And because of our wonderful legal system, their families wil have little to no legal remedies available.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:56 pm

When the Governor here in Indiana finally released the text of his mask mandate, I had a sigh of relief: Masks were required in all schools, including all students of the 3rd grade and higher. Then came the exceptions: No masks are required in classrooms if they can maintain 6' of separation at all times. Now, there is no way they can achieve that to begin with (maybe, if the teacher never leaves the chalkboard and nothing is ever passed out, and nobody ever gets up), but our school has responded by stating that masks won't be required in classrooms at all.

Every other school plan I've read on here would have me jumping for joy over the murderous negligence our school administration has chosen, and our local health department has approved. I honestly just want to ask them, straight up, if they think the virus is real or a political stunt.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:08 pm

https://twitter.com/adammintzer/status/ ... 9255700480

EVERY county in S.C. is now experiencing "high" COVID-19 activity...According to the AccelerateED report, school districts in "high" activity counties are recommended to do full virtual learning until conditions improve.

And here is the article talking about it. Most notably -

Most school systems in the state currently plan to begin classes with a hybrid-model, that would have some students at school for part of the week, or a fully-virtual model.

There are a few districts offering in-person five-day a week instruction and others offering virtual-only learning. South Carolina Superintendent Molly Spearman said her department will only approve plans that include some type of in-person option.

Seems like perfect agreement...

My county has ~75k kids. As of today, 23k have opted for the full virtual model for the year. The rest are relying on the county plan to adapt as the spread changes.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:33 pm

So today we had to make a decision regarding the first quarter of the school year. My county has 1274 reported cases, or 0.7% of the reported cases in Illinois. 12% of the cases are in my city, or 153 people. Subtracting those who are reported recovered, that leaves about 49 infected people in town.

Our choice was full remote -- 5 hours per day on the computer; hybrid - half day in class, half day home on computer, and full day in class. While my wife is really worried he might bring it home; based on summer school remote learning experience, I don't think it would work having him home. Whenever he'd get frustrated with something he didn't understand, he would shut down and scream he didn't want to do it anymore. The hybrid really isn't a consideration -- a half day is plenty of time to catch it from an infected student or teacher. So he's signed up for full day and now we'll nervously see what happens.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:55 pm

Blackhawk wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:56 pmNow, there is no way they can achieve that to begin with (maybe, if the teacher never leaves the chalkboard and nothing is ever passed out, and nobody ever gets up), but our school has responded by stating that masks won't be required in classrooms at all.

NPR was running a story yesterday on Israel, I think, and the lessons they learned from re-opening classrooms too soon. It included spiking infections and teachers who said that every other line out of their mouths were "put your mask back on"

... schools re-opening before a vaccine is a horrible idea.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:07 pm

Paingod wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:55 pm
NPR was running a story yesterday on Israel, I think, and the lessons they learned from re-opening classrooms too soon. It included spiking infections and teachers who said that every other line out of their mouths were "put your mask back on"

... schools re-opening before a vaccine is a horrible idea.

IIUC, one mistake they made was temporarily lifting the mask requirement due to a heatwave.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:07 pm

I think I saw it posted here, but wasn't there a chart of appropriate responses to parents making decisions on how to do schooling? I think it went something like this.

Parent decision: I have decided to do remote learning for my child(ren) this year.
Appropriate response: That must have been a difficult decision, and I respect it.

Parent decision: I have decided to do partial-remote learning/partial onsite learning for my child(ren) this year.
Appropriate response: That must have been a difficult decision, and I respect it.

Parent decision: I have decided to do fulltime onsite learning for my child(ren) this year.
Appropriate response: That must have been a difficult decision, and I respect it.

Parent decision: I have decided to homeschool my child(ren) this year.
Appropriate response: That must have been a difficult decision, and I respect it.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:13 pm

Uhhuh. That's about it.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:16 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:07 pmI think I saw it posted here, but wasn't there a chart of appropriate responses to parents making decisions on how to do schooling? I think it went something like this...

If this is in response to my "horrible idea" that was the government's choice, not the parents.

I have nothing but sympathy for parents (like me) having to navigate this mess.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:19 pm

I have sympathy for the difficulty of the decision but more sympathy for the professionals in education and people who need to around people who had to make the tough choice to send their kids to school and whose ability to choose is even tougher.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:26 pm

Paingod wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:16 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:07 pmI think I saw it posted here, but wasn't there a chart of appropriate responses to parents making decisions on how to do schooling? I think it went something like this...
If this is in response to my "horrible idea" that was the government's choice, not the parents.

I have nothing but sympathy for parents (like me) having to navigate this mess.

Not so much a direct response as it was an "inspired by" response. I didn't necessarily think you were attacking parents who are making the choice to send their kids to school, but it seemed a good entry to remind people that it's a touchy topic and that most parents really are doing what they feel is best for their kids and their families given their individual circumstances.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:20 pm

After announcing at the beginning of the month that the College of Charleston would have normal, in person classes all semester, today they’ve changed course a bit. Virtual classes for the first three weeks and then in person classes starting mid-September. My guess is that this is just the first step in what ultimately will be online only classes for the whole semester. Just delaying the inevitable.

In other news, apparently Russia has announced they have a vaccine that will be ready in two weeks? I don’t think I’ll be the first in line for that one.... Wait - does that make me an anti-vaxxer???

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:07 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:20 pmIn other news, apparently Russia has announced they have a vaccine that will be ready in two weeks? I don’t think I’ll be the first in line for that one.... Wait - does that make me an anti-vaxxer???

I thought I read a few weeks ago (last month? two months ago?) that they were giving government officials and members of the military an experimental vaccine? I'm sure it's not being done in any way to allow Putin to suddenly consolidate power when there's mysterious non-vaccine related deaths (total coincidence).

gilraen · Post by **gilraen** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:14 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:07 pm
Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:20 pmIn other news, apparently Russia has announced they have a vaccine that will be ready in two weeks? I don’t think I’ll be the first in line for that one.... Wait - does that make me an anti-vaxxer???
I thought I read a few weeks ago (last month? two months ago?) that they were giving government officials and members of the military an experimental vaccine? I'm sure it's not being done in any way to allow Putin to suddenly consolidate power when there's mysterious non-vaccine related deaths (total coincidence).

I went to some Russian websites today to read about it - it's basically just Phase 1 of trials, they are not even pretending that it's any further along than that. They only tested on 2 groups of about 40 people each, using only healthy military guys, that they quarantined and observed in an inpatient setting for 28 days. It's a standard adenovirus vaccine, similar in design to what Moderna, Novartis et. al. are currently testing. But Russian DoD declared that theirs is good enough and they'll start mass producing it.

And the general sentiment on Russian discussion boards and in comments is that one would have to be out of their mind to get vaccinated with this thing.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:27 pm

This is Putin’s lifeline to Trump, and Trojan Horse fo America. Trump is desperate for any solution to our coronavirus problem. He’ll pay anything, do anything.

On top of it, Putin has Trump primed to ignore the US national security and medical experts. This is not going to end well.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:23 am

pr0ner wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:17 am Here we go again.

https://www.twitter.com/UrbanAchievr/st ... 4508837891

You know, this is just insane. I have several otherwise intelligent friends who are posting this on Facebook (fyi, I reported their posts and at least one has been taken down, but she reposted it again - and I reported it again). I just don't understand it, I really don't. The only thing that explains it is that for many people, Trumpism is a cult. You don't question the leader, he can never be wrong, and you look for things that reinforce your belief and you refuse to accept any information that contradicts your belief. It still astounds me.

Just an aside, I have another friend who posts fake news all of the time and never blinks an eyelash. I uselessly, along with a couple of her other friends, constantly post fact checks and other data that show that she is wrong - again and again. I wonder all the time - isn't she embarrassed by being shown that she is wrong? isn't it humiliating to post again and again only to be shown ignorant and gullible time after time? Doesn't she care that she looks stupid? How can she not care?

The level of willful ignorance in this country is just astounding. I just don't understand it, I just don't. And it doesn't bode well for the future of this country.

Formix · Post by **Formix** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:41 am

So FL has over 31,000 cases of COVID in children under 17. First, that's terrible, but second, I'm very interested to hear more about that. Are there any confirmed cases of these kids infecting anyone else? What is their severity? There is valuable data there that the rest of the parents in America need to help them in making the decision to send their kids to school or not. Does this back up or refute the South Korea research?

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:46 am

Zarathud wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:27 pm He’ll pay anything out of other people's pocket, do anything.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:17 am

Smoove_B wrote:
In the sermon, Immanuel preserved special vitriol for the Magic 8-Ball, a toy that can be shaken up to “reveal” any answer. Immanuel claims the otherwise innocuous Magic 8-Ball was in fact a scheme to get children used to witchcraft.
I can't wait to hear what position she'll be given in the Trump Administration because she sounds super qualified.

She was wearing a white doctor coat in a picture so I guess she knows what she's talking about.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:52 am

Grifman wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:23 am The level of willful ignorance in this country is just astounding. I just don't understand it, I just don't. And it doesn't bode well for the future of this country.

Got into a couple discussions yesterday about this. I was completely shocked when people were defending her, saying that "all doctors have the right to believe whatever they want". Two of my MAGA friends claimed that everyone was "persecuting her for her religious beliefs" by pointing out her buffonery and that her crazy religious views have no effect on truth of what shes saying about COVID-19. I simply had to walk away from the discussion at that point.

I've known the two people making that argument for years, and they've been - up to the past 12 months - incredibly intelligent, rational people. Watching them continually defend this garbage is just...sad.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:07 am

Skinypupy wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:52 amI've known the two people making that argument for years, and they've been - up to the past 12 months - incredibly intelligent, rational people. Watching them continually defend this garbage is just...sad.

I wonder if it's something to do with the universal stress of the moment. As things get harder, some people just can't accept it and look for a light at the end of the tunnel. Any light. Even if it's the train barreling towards them.

I don't know how people can deny things like the Holocaust and Sandy Hook, except that it's so incomprehensibly wrong that it just can't fit in their head.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:15 am

Immanuel is doubling down on demon sperm this morning.

https://twitter.com/stella_immanuel/sta ... 2651268096

Also:

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1 ... 5571699714

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:21 am

pr0ner wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:15 amImmanuel is doubling down on demon sperm this morning.

To be fair, I think Trump is too.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:22 am

Paingod wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:07 am
Skinypupy wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:52 amI've known the two people making that argument for years, and they've been - up to the past 12 months - incredibly intelligent, rational people. Watching them continually defend this garbage is just...sad.
I wonder if it's something to do with the universal stress of the moment. As things get harder, some people just can't accept it and look for a light at the end of the tunnel. Any light. Even if it's the train barreling towards them.

I don't know how people can deny things like the Holocaust and Sandy Hook, except that it's so incomprehensibly wrong that it just can't fit in their head.

The two that I'm thinking of are both devoutly religious, and have always expressed the idea that Christianity is "under attack". They feel that while Trump isn't perfect and they don't like a lot of what he does, that he is "sent from God" to save Christians in this country from the evil liberal hordes.
It's completely nonsensical, but also a viewpoint that you're never going to be able to talk them out of.

It has almost completely destroyed one of their careers. He used to be an extremely in-demand consultant, but now no one on my team will touch him with a 10 foot pole. Most of our clients will do at least some cursory research when they engage a consultant, and his FB feed is a veritable cornucopia of ultra-conservative nuttery. He has claimed (of course) that he's being discriminated against for his faith, but it's much simpler than that. We just can't take the risk of ever putting him in front of our clients to do work, so his entire career has simply dried up and withered away over the past year.

It's kinda sad to watch, but since it doesn't seem to be changing his behavior, there's not much we can do to help him.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:24 am

I was supposed to have a dental appointment back in I think April, which was of course canceled. I just got an e-mail from the dentist, as apparently they have set a new appointment up for me in September. Probably just going to cancel it...I assume that they would have masks and precautions, but all the same seems better to wait until early next year.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:27 am

El Guapo wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:24 am I was supposed to have a dental appointment back in I think April, which was of course canceled. I just got an e-mail from the dentist, as apparently they have set a new appointment up for me in September. Probably just going to cancel it...I assume that they would have masks and precautions, but all the same seems better to wait until early next year.

I have both a dentist appt and an optometrist appt next Wednesday. I'm keeping both. I see no reason not to.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:34 am

El Guapo wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:24 am I was supposed to have a dental appointment back in I think April, which was of course canceled. I just got an e-mail from the dentist, as apparently they have set a new appointment up for me in September. Probably just going to cancel it...I assume that they would have masks and precautions, but all the same seems better to wait until early next year.

I had to go in about three weeks ago for the tooth that was bugging me. Everyone there had both masks and shields, and I felt pretty comfortable with it.

That said, I have a long history of dental nightmares. So if a tooth hurts, nothing short of the building being on fire will keep me from the dentists office.

Scraper · Post by **Scraper** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:37 am

pr0ner wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:27 am
El Guapo wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:24 am I was supposed to have a dental appointment back in I think April, which was of course canceled. I just got an e-mail from the dentist, as apparently they have set a new appointment up for me in September. Probably just going to cancel it...I assume that they would have masks and precautions, but all the same seems better to wait until early next year.
I have both a dentist appt and an optometrist appt next Wednesday. I'm keeping both. I see no reason not to.

I agree. I went to the dentist for a regular cleaning about 2 weeks ago. You would have thought the people working there were all going into a surgery. They were fully gloved and masked up, plus they had on a face shield and heavier than normal medical coats. They also spaced the appointments out so there was no one else in the lobby and my appointment started right on time. If your Dentist is taking the same precautions I would go.

Toe · Post by **Toe** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:49 am

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:10 pm
wonderpug wrote:
"Coincide" is putting it lightly. The trajectory magically changes direction the day they made the reporting change.

I wonder how much of the plateau is due to limitations in testing capability.

I have a suspicion that it has little to do with testing capabilities, given that the rate of increase seem to be unchanging for blue states.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:51 am

Scraper wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:37 am
pr0ner wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:27 am
El Guapo wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:24 am I was supposed to have a dental appointment back in I think April, which was of course canceled. I just got an e-mail from the dentist, as apparently they have set a new appointment up for me in September. Probably just going to cancel it...I assume that they would have masks and precautions, but all the same seems better to wait until early next year.
I have both a dentist appt and an optometrist appt next Wednesday. I'm keeping both. I see no reason not to.
I agree. I went to the dentist for a regular cleaning about 2 weeks ago. You would have thought the people working there were all going into a surgery. They were fully gloved and masked up, plus they had on a face shield and heavier than normal medical coats. They also spaced the appointments out so there was no one else in the lobby and my appointment started right on time. If your Dentist is taking the same precautions I would go.

Similar here. I've gone twice, and my kids once. We're nearly 5 months into this pandemic and will be dealing with it for at least another 6, so not going means not taking care of our teeth. That said, my dentist is doing IMO pretty well with precautions. Only filling every other exam room, waiting room is closed (you text from the lot and they let you know when it's clear to come up), masks required, temp and exposure screening at the door, etc. I have literally not seen another patient during any of the 3 visits.

I don't like going right now, and I did reschedule appointments early on in the pandemic. But we're beyond rescheduling being feasible now, and I'm not a fan of skipping out since I'm not a young gun anymore.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:57 am

Grifman wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:23 amJust an aside, I have another friend who posts fake news all of the time and never blinks an eyelash. I uselessly, along with a couple of her other friends, constantly post fact checks and other data that show that she is wrong - again and again. I wonder all the time - isn't she embarrassed by being shown that she is wrong? isn't it humiliating to post again and again only to be shown ignorant and gullible time after time? Doesn't she care that she looks stupid? How can she not care?

I think you know this, but the answer to all of your questions is no. She isn't embarrassed/humiliated, as in her eyes she has not been shown to be ignorant, gullible, or stupid.

There is only one way to still be on the MAGA train, especially for someone that's actively participating in spreading the misinformation--that's to either have bought in whole-hog and honestly believe what she's sharing (which requires bulletproof mental shielding against rationality and facts), or to know that it's not honest/factual but have the cognitive-dissonance fortitude to just not care.

We as a country are well beyond the point at which rational debate and fact-checking will sway anyone still strongly supporting DJT. We left the stage where we have a shared set of facts on which to base our view of objective reality many moons ago. It's extremely disheartening, and is the root cause of my continual shouting that we're fuct. DJT is a symptom; the disease is that we as a country are no longer capable of rational discussion, much less productive debate across political divides.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:38 am

pr0ner wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:27 am
El Guapo wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:24 am I was supposed to have a dental appointment back in I think April, which was of course canceled. I just got an e-mail from the dentist, as apparently they have set a new appointment up for me in September. Probably just going to cancel it...I assume that they would have masks and precautions, but all the same seems better to wait until early next year.
I have both a dentist appt and an optometrist appt next Wednesday. I'm keeping both. I see no reason not to.

No reason? I can think of about 19 reasons (well, OK, it's just one reason, but then the joke doesn't work).

Seriously, though, there are certainly reasons not to go. That doesn't mean one shouldn't go. One needs to weigh the risks of going to a smallish enclosed room without a mask while people poke around in your mouth vs. the risks of postponing basic care and preventative treatment. It's not an easy call for all people, and I think it's a bit cavalier to say there are no reasons not to.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:44 am

ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:38 am
pr0ner wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:27 am
El Guapo wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:24 am I was supposed to have a dental appointment back in I think April, which was of course canceled. I just got an e-mail from the dentist, as apparently they have set a new appointment up for me in September. Probably just going to cancel it...I assume that they would have masks and precautions, but all the same seems better to wait until early next year.
I have both a dentist appt and an optometrist appt next Wednesday. I'm keeping both. I see no reason not to.
No reason? I can think of about 19 reasons (well, OK, it's just one reason, but then the joke doesn't work).

Seriously, though, there are certainly reasons not to go. That doesn't mean one shouldn't go. One needs to weigh the risks of going to a smallish enclosed room without a mask while people poke around in your mouth vs. the risks of postponing basic care and preventative treatment. It's not an easy call for all people, and I think it's a bit cavalier to say there are no reasons not to.

Well, for me, I see no reason not to. Is that really that cavalier when I live alone and I've already been going back to the office for the last month? I don't think it is.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:46 am

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:57 am
Grifman wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:23 amJust an aside, I have another friend who posts fake news all of the time and never blinks an eyelash. I uselessly, along with a couple of her other friends, constantly post fact checks and other data that show that she is wrong - again and again. I wonder all the time - isn't she embarrassed by being shown that she is wrong? isn't it humiliating to post again and again only to be shown ignorant and gullible time after time? Doesn't she care that she looks stupid? How can she not care?
I think you know this, but the answer to all of your questions is no. She isn't embarrassed/humiliated, as in her eyes she has not been shown to be ignorant, gullible, or stupid.

There is only one way to still be on the MAGA train, especially for someone that's actively participating in spreading the misinformation--that's to either have bought in whole-hog and honestly believe what she's sharing (which requires bulletproof mental shielding against rationality and facts), or to know that it's not honest/factual but have the cognitive-dissonance fortitude to just not care.

We as a country are well beyond the point at which rational debate and fact-checking will sway anyone still strongly supporting DJT. We left the stage where we have a shared set of facts on which to base our view of objective reality many moons ago. It's extremely disheartening, and is the root cause of my continual shouting that we're fuct. DJT is a symptom; the disease is that we as a country are no longer capable of rational discussion, much less productive debate across political divides.

"STIGGINIT" has proven to be a far greater motivator than any of us really expected, I think.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:48 am

pr0ner wrote:Well, for me, I see no reason not to. Is that really that cavalier when I live alone and I've already been going back to the office for the last month? I don't think it is.

We'll just disagree on the level of cavalierness (cavalierity?).

Maybe I'm being pedantic, but there are reasons not to go, and I'm guessing you can actually see them but you've weighed the risks vs. benefits for your scenario and feel that the reasons to go outweigh the reasons not to go.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:51 am

ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:48 am
pr0ner wrote:Well, for me, I see no reason not to. Is that really that cavalier when I live alone and I've already been going back to the office for the last month? I don't think it is.
We'll just disagree on the level of cavalierness (cavalierity?).

Maybe I'm being pedantic, but there are reasons not to go, and I'm guessing you can actually see them but you've weighed the risks vs. benefits for your scenario and feel that the reasons to go outweigh the reasons not to go.

I don't think you're being pedantic. Of course there are reasons not to go, such as for example the chance that pr0ner catches the Rona and passes away several weeks later. Everything is risk/benefit analysis, and pr0ner seems to have chosen to refer to 'very low relative risk' as 'no risk.'

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:54 am

Grifman wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:23 am Just an aside, I have another friend who posts fake news all of the time and never blinks an eyelash. I uselessly, along with a couple of her other friends, constantly post fact checks and other data that show that she is wrong - again and again. I wonder all the time - isn't she embarrassed by being shown that she is wrong? isn't it humiliating to post again and again only to be shown ignorant and gullible time after time? Doesn't she care that she looks stupid? How can she not care?

The level of willful ignorance in this country is just astounding. I just don't understand it, I just don't. And it doesn't bode well for the future of this country.

Social media is very much to blame.

Think of what your friends' SM feed probably looks like: while you and a few others post fact checks, you're probably outnumbered 50:1 by posts confirming and reinforcing her biases. And the experience of social media is such that (unless she is uncommonly information-literate) those 50 reinforcements each carry the same weight of persuasion as your pushback. No doubt your fact checks are receiving rebuttals from her like-minded friends, and you probably don't even see these.

Willful ignorance isn't just something we start with. It's something we curate ourselves into.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:55 am

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:20 pm After announcing at the beginning of the month that the College of Charleston would have normal, in person classes all semester, today they’ve changed course a bit. Virtual classes for the first three weeks and then in person classes starting mid-September. My guess is that this is just the first step in what ultimately will be online only classes for the whole semester. Just delaying the inevitable.

In other news, apparently Russia has announced they have a vaccine that will be ready in two weeks? I don’t think I’ll be the first in line for that one.... Wait - does that make me an anti-vaxxer???

My niece is seriously considering just taking off a year of college. She has a free ride (won a prestigious scholarship which has given all the winners that option) because she doesn't want to miss more of her college experience. If I were her I'd do that. The university plan doesn't really make sense. Most classes would be online but with kids in dorms and the college environment, does anyone thing parties are NOT going to happen (and even if they don't, kids in dorms?!).

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:58 am

Formix wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:41 am So FL has over 31,000 cases of COVID in children under 17. First, that's terrible, but second, I'm very interested to hear more about that. Are there any confirmed cases of these kids infecting anyone else? What is their severity? There is valuable data there that the rest of the parents in America need to help them in making the decision to send their kids to school or not. Does this back up or refute the South Korea research?

I''m not downplaying this but the real question is how many have been hospitalized and how many have died? I think those are the key metrics. A lot of people get sick and never show symptoms, and even more get it and just get sick but never need to go to the hospital.