Election integrity and the transfer of power

[Blackhawk]

We need to be but do you honestly think we will? We see the machinations happening right before our eyes and all we do as a nation is tweet about it and bitch about it. Who is actually trying to stop it?

I was thinking about all of this earlier. It reminded me about a problem that gifted kids have. See, gifted kids have an easy time in school. Obviously, right? Everything comes easy. They don't need to do a lot of extra studying. They don't have to struggle to figure things out. They don't have to sacrifice their free time to get good grades. It is simple for them. That's all well and good, but it comes at a cost: The kids grow up never learning to try. They never had to work in order to achieve, so they never learn how to work to achieve. For most kids this bites them in the ass when they get to college or to their first real job and discover that they have no clue how to put effort in when it is needed. They've never had to before. It is a problem for my kids, and it was a problem for me when I hit college.

We, as a nation, have forgotten how to try. Most of us have never had to. It's been three generations since Americans have really been under a significant threat.* There haven't been any world wars or Great Depressions. We've had it easy. We've never had to fight to exist. We've never had to fight for our rights, or for our freedom. Those are things that have been there since our earliest memory, and nobody has ever tried to take them away, so we've become complacent. We've forgotten how to struggle, and we've forgotten how to fight.** It is what has made us such easy pickings for the likes of Trump, and it is something that we're going to have to get past if we want to survive.


*

Spoiler:

For a 'significant threat' I'm going back to the height of the cold war. The first members of Generation X weren't even born until three years after the Cuban Missile crisis, and most of them are too young to even remember Vietnam. We had the tail end of the cold war, and the only real threat to America since then was 9/11, which, to be honest, wasn't an existential threat to America, nor did it threaten 95% of Americans, nor did it last as a danger.

**

Spoiler:

Minorities and some marginalized groups have not had it easy, and they have not forgotten how to struggle. The problem is that they have, largely, struggled alone. The majority of the nation sat and watched. We sympathized, and may have even openly agreed with them, but we sat and watched. There's hope: from multiple sources I've read, one thing that has really stood out to a lot of civil rights leaders in the George Floyd protests is how diverse the crowds are this time around. This isn't just minorities fighting back this time. It isn't being treated as a them problem. This is a nation learning what it means to fight back. Hopefully it is enough to wake people up to the fact that what's right requires effort.

[Holman]

If you want to see how an authoritarian steals an election and how (some) citizens respond, start doing searches for Belarus, where the president has all-but-openly rigged the tallies and is cracking down hard on dissent.

There are huge protests in Minsk, where the city has effectively been cordoned off (all highways closed) and the military is moving in to (as someone once suggested) dominate the streets.

[malchior]

https://twitter.com/MalcolmNance/status ... 9218256896

[El Guapo]

If you want to see how an authoritarian steals an election and how (some) citizens respond, start doing searches for Belarus, where the president has all-but-openly rigged the tallies and is cracking down hard on dissent.

There are huge protests in Minsk, where the city has effectively been cordoned off (all highways closed) and the military is moving in to (as someone once suggested) dominate the streets.

Belarus is kind of a different situation, as that's been a dictatorship forever - this isn't a would-be authoritarian trying to seize power, it's an authoritarian working to maintain it. And this is far from the first fake Belarussian election, so I'm curious what has set off protests now.

Still, godspeed to the people of Belarus.

[pr0ner]

If you want to see how an authoritarian steals an election and how (some) citizens respond, start doing searches for Belarus, where the president has all-but-openly rigged the tallies and is cracking down hard on dissent.

There are huge protests in Minsk, where the city has effectively been cordoned off (all highways closed) and the military is moving in to (as someone once suggested) dominate the streets.

Belarus is kind of a different situation, as that's been a dictatorship forever - this isn't a would-be authoritarian trying to seize power, it's an authoritarian working to maintain it. And this is far from the first fake Belarussian election, so I'm curious what has set off protests now.

Still, godspeed to the people of Belarus.

Apparently there is genuine belief Lukashenko actually lost this election (the opposition actually coalesced around one candidate this time), and he's doing everything he can to rig it so that he won.

[malchior]

If you want to see how an authoritarian steals an election and how (some) citizens respond, start doing searches for Belarus, where the president has all-but-openly rigged the tallies and is cracking down hard on dissent.

There are huge protests in Minsk, where the city has effectively been cordoned off (all highways closed) and the military is moving in to (as someone once suggested) dominate the streets.

Belarus is kind of a different situation, as that's been a dictatorship forever - this isn't a would-be authoritarian trying to seize power, it's an authoritarian working to maintain it. And this is far from the first fake Belarussian election, so I'm curious what has set off protests now.

Still, godspeed to the people of Belarus.

Apparently there is genuine belief Lukashenko actually lost this election (the opposition actually coalesced around one candidate this time), and he's doing everything he can to rig it so that he won.

Another factor was that they announced an outcome that seemed preposterous. Lukashenko claims he received 80% of the vote. The opposition candidate got 10% despite huge election rallies that indicated lots of support and 2-3 others pulled 2% each.

[Holman]

Belarus is kind of a different situation, as that's been a dictatorship forever - this isn't a would-be authoritarian trying to seize power, it's an authoritarian working to maintain it. And this is far from the first fake Belarussian election, so I'm curious what has set off protests now.

Trump can dream, can't he?

[El Guapo]

Belarus is kind of a different situation, as that's been a dictatorship forever - this isn't a would-be authoritarian trying to seize power, it's an authoritarian working to maintain it. And this is far from the first fake Belarussian election, so I'm curious what has set off protests now.

Trump can dream, can't he?

I mean, that's definitely where Trump would like to go if he can.

[malchior]

Absentee ballot USPS fun.

The Sterling Heights clerk said Monday that 165 absentee voter ballots for the Aug. 4 primary election arrived in the mail six days late, underscoring delivery problems with the U.S. Postal Service that businesses and government agencies have been experiencing for months during the coronavirus pandemic.

The late ballots, which now can't be legally counted despite being postmarked five days before the primary, could have been enough to change the outcome of one Democratic primary for the Macomb County Commission that was narrowly decided by 87 votes.

Sterling Heights clerk Melanie Ryska said the ballots arrived at her office Monday and were postmarked July 30 at "Metroplex," meaning they were likely processed at the either the U.S. Postal Service's Detroit or Pontiac mail facilities.

...


A USPS spokeswoman did not immediately respond late Monday to a request for comment from Crain's.

In the Macomb County Commission's 4th District in southern Sterling Heights, retired educator Carole Chi defeated Tim Hamlin by 87 votes in the closet primary race on Aug. 4. It's unclear how many of the 165 late absentee ballots came from the 4th District or how many were cast in the Democratic primary.

With the expansion of any-reason absentee voting that voters enshrined in the state Constitution in 2018, clerks across Michigan reported record absentee voting by mail.

Statewide, 64 percent or 1.6 million of the 2.5 million ballots counted were cast by absent voters ahead of last week's primary, according to Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson's office.

In Sterling Heights, more than 70 percent of the 27,676 ballots counted in the Aug. 4 primary were absentee, according to unofficial results.

But the 165 ballots that arrived Monday can't be legally counted, Ryska said.

In order to be counted, absentee ballots must be received before polls close at 8 p.m. on an Election Day. Because of delays in the mail blamed on staffing shortages in the U.S. Postal Service, municipal clerks began advising voters a week before the primary to hand-deliver their ballots to their offices.

[LordMortis]

I can't speak for other states and for what to do when you are voting absentee because, you know, you are absent but you should just go drop your vote at the clerks office if that is an option.

I hope these issues and the resolution are broadly exposed before November.

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/sos/ ... 5992_7.pdf

https://www.michigan.gov/som/0,4669,7-1 ... --,00.html

Voters can find their clerk’s location and contact information at Michigan.gov/Vote. A list of ballot drop boxes is at Michigan.gov/SOS.

I still have to figure out why I didn't get my primary ballot.

[Jeff V]

The other day I received an application for a vote-by-mail application from the county clerk. Included was an application to be an election judge. I'm thinking about it...while it will be an inconvenient commitment if I'm gainfully employed by then, there's no reason for optimism so maybe I should send it in.

[Alefroth]

Why can't those late ballots be counted if they were postmarked before the election day?

edit: Nevermind, just read the last sentence. In WA they don't have to be received by election day, just postmarked.

[malchior]

Why can't those late ballots be counted if they were postmarked before the election day?

That is the law there. They aim to be able to decide the election that day.

[El Guapo]

Why can't those late ballots be counted if they were postmarked before the election day?

That is the law there. They aim to be able to decide the election that day.

Another joy from a system that gives each state so much latitude in who is allowed to vote and how.

[malchior]

Why can't those late ballots be counted if they were postmarked before the election day?

That is the law there. They aim to be able to decide the election that day.

Another joy from a system that gives each state so much latitude in who is allowed to vote and how.

In a less desperate time setting this would be a gee whiz story. Now it is life and death. They should amend the law even if it is just for this year.

[LordMortis]

Why can't those late ballots be counted if they were postmarked before the election day?

That is the law there. They aim to be able to decide the election that day.

Another joy from a system that gives each state so much latitude in who is allowed to vote and how.

In a less desperate time setting this would be a gee whiz story. Now it is life and death. They should amend the law even if it is just for this year.

That ain't gonna happen. The GOP and its SIGs (most especially the Chamber of Commerce and DeVoses, fuck them...) were defeated no fewer than four times and had the Supreme Court weigh in while weighing in for (North Carolina, was it?) all before we got this far. We've also had POTUS and his lapdogs specifically attack our state with allegations of the corrupt nature to fix the election and call its impending results into question. If you vote by mail, vote friggen early. Otherwise drop the ballot off at the clerk's office for you district.

[Grifman]

I thought about another thread but I guess it fits here.

I have a lot of concerns about the vote by mail snowball we are probably facing. From what I have read, many Democrats plan on voting by mail, while relatively few Republicans do. So my concerns are these:

1) Are the states that don't normally have a lot of this prepared to handle it. It is my understanding that NY is still counting votes from their primary election on June 23 and had numerous problems:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/03/nyre ... oting.html

2) I am afraid that with above normal number of mail ballots, that an abnormally high number will be disqualified because people are just dumb and make mistakes filling out the ballots. As noted in the article about NY, the Postal Service also had issues (and that was even without Trump lackeys in charge). I could see a critical number of Democratic ballots being disqualified which could hurt in a very close election. I am afraid that this could cost the election.

3) If we have massive mail in voting, it will be impossible to call the election in many states on Election Night or even the next morning. That would be unprecedented (Bush/Gore excepted) because this could happen in quite a number of states, not just one. We could get to the next morning with a significant number of states whose outcomes, and hence the national outcome, is unknown. And how long could it take to know who actually won?

4) It is highly likely that Trump could be leading the day after Election Day and then slowly start to see his lead decline as mail in Democratic ballots are counted. This is only going to feed his allegations of the election being fixed and fuel the frenzy of his crazed base.

5) I can see us not having one "Florida" (Bush/Gore) but a dozen "Florida's", with Trump filing a lawsuit in every one of those states contesting the results in each state. Are the courts prepared to handle all of these suits quickly? Is the Supreme Court prepared to make a dozen decisions on virtually the same issue, because you know that is where these suits are going to end up?

I am very concerned about how this process will play out and the impact it will have on a very polarized country with a president who has no respect for constitutional norms. Despite the concerns about the virus, I am starting to be more worried about whether it was wise for the Democrats to put such an emphasis on voting by mail.

[Kraken]

Despite the concerns about the virus, I am starting to be more worried about whether it was wise for the Democrats to put such an emphasis on voting by mail.

Those two things are inseparable, though. Without mail-in ballots, many people will be unable to vote at all -- especially in cities.

I do share your concerns about prolonged counting and disputed results.

[Smoove_B]

3) If we have massive mail in voting, it will be impossible to call the election in many states on Election Night or even the next morning. That would be unprecedented (Bush/Gore excepted) because this could happen in quite a number of states, not just one. We could get to the next morning with a significant number of states whose outcomes, and hence the national outcome, is unknown. And how long could it take to know who actually won?

As a nation, we need to get away from the "instant results" mentality that the 24 hour news feeds into during election season. We likely need to move future national elections to span a few days, possibly over a weekend to encourage people to vote. That it's held on a random Tuesday in November is an anachronism from another society.

Regardless, I never expected results on election night in 2020; I presumed it was going to be contested and/or held up by long lines and people slamming the polls nationwide. Now that it will likely be done via mail, that's absolutely going to make it longer and it won't surprise me at all if its 2+ weeks before we know for sure the results and they're certified.

It's going to be chaos no matter what. More important is that people have the ability to vote and their votes are counted.

Also, F Trump and F Mitch McConnell.

[Alefroth]

I think we also need to be pushing for expanded early voting in every state to allow as many COVID precautions as possible to be in place.

[Holman]

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status ... 96416?s=21

[LordMortis]

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status ... 96416?s=21

I don't get the context for this. I must have missed a 15 minute news cycle. The last I remember Trump and the GOP wanted to raid USPS money and was installing a postmaster that was friendly to this purpose much like he's done with all of appointments and this would eventually be in spite of pandemic that is increasing parcel movement. His envy of Bezos only seemed to increase his effort.

[Holman]

I don't get the context for this.

Vote suppression is a GOP constant.

[Max Peck]

I don't get the context for this.

Trump outright stated that he is blocking the coronavirus aid package in order to prevent Congress from providing funding for election infrastructure, such as mail-in voting.

Trump says he is holding up coronavirus aid to block Democrats' bid for election funding

Funding for the U.S. Postal Service and to shore up election infrastructure is the main sticking point in talks between the White House and top congressional Democrats over a fresh round of coronavirus relief, President Donald Trump said on Thursday.

Trump said his negotiators have resisted Democrats’ calls for additional money to help U.S. election officials prepare for a presidential contest during a pandemic that has killed more than 165,000 Americans and presented severe logistical challenges to organizing large events like the Nov. 3 election.

“The items are the post office and the $3.5 billion for mail-in voting,” Trump told Fox Business Network, saying Democrats want to give the post office $25 billion. “If we don’t make the deal, that means they can’t have the money, that means they can’t have universal mail-in voting. It just can’t happen.”

It's a win-win for him, the poors get to suffer more and vote less.

[El Guapo]

I'm glad that the Democrats are finally fighting for election funding, at least.

[malchior]

In a sane world saying that he is intentionally suppressing the vote during the pandemic would be an impeachable offense.

https://twitter.com/AshaRangappa_/statu ... 8866037766

[malchior]

Politico is as helpful as usual

Edit: For some context Trump said that @aoc was a poor student in college and isn't smart.

https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/ ... 2981795842

[Isgrimnur]

Politico is as helpful as usual

Edit: For some context Trump said that @aoc was a poor student in college and isn't smart.

Deleted.

[Max Peck]

https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/ ... 8633742338

So, what did the "stupid tweet" actually say?

[malchior]

https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/ ... 8633742338

So, what did the "stupid tweet" actually say?

I don't have the exact words but we'll get a screenshot. It essentially was along the lines of something that sounded like a grown man talking down to a woman about how it is the job of Congress to pass funding. I get where it might have been a joke because it was an extremely literal take on @aoc's original tweet and seemed to ignore the context. It definitely fell real flat and he was getting a ton of angry women replying.

Edit: Added screenshot

https://twitter.com/brentutk/status/129 ... 69/photo/1

[Smoove_B]

JFC already.

https://twitter.com/A_W_Gordon/status/1 ... 4764203011

New: the USPS has been quietly removing mail sorting machines from distribution facilities, including ones that sort ballots. "I’m not sure you’re going to find an answer for why,” a union official told me, “because we haven’t figured that out either.”

Tell me again why this mother f'er hasn't been impeached at least two more times since March?

[stessier]

From the article, they know of 19 machines from 5 facilities. It's not a good look, but it's not necessarily nefarious.

[Smoove_B]

From the article, they know of 19 machines from 5 facilities. It's not a good look, but it's not necessarily nefarious.

It's a test. Did anyone notice or report a random small sampling of sorting machines suddenly going offline for no apparent reason? If not, continue. If so, do something else.

[Carpet_pissr]

Remember back in June when he did his photo op? I'm pretty sure that Joint Chiefs guy was walking with him. In addition, now Trump is using 'federal agents' instead of military to do his bidding. I can foresee a worst case scenario where Trump claims fraud and tells the public he's going to remain President until the fraud is sorted out. This obviously won't happen any time soon because of the pandemic complicating things. Meanwhile he uses federal agents to secure his position. These agents have shown, in Portland, that they'll follow his orders. Meanwhile the military doesn't help Trump, not wanting to operate on US soil against civilians but the military also does not move against him. Their excuse will be he's their commander in chief as long as he's President, and it's up to the legislative or judicial branch to sort out the election.

At that point, who gets the job of removing him from the White House? Who would have the authority to give the 'go' command for that operation?

Imagine seeing this post in 2016 or before. Just wrap your head around that for a sec. The blowback for alarmism (?) and hyperbole would have been swift and brutal, methinks.

[malchior]

From the article, they know of 19 machines from 5 facilities. It's not a good look, but it's not necessarily nefarious.

Is it 100% "nefarious"? No. Still they also don't deserve the benefit of doubt anymore. If it smells with this administration it probably is bad. It doesn't even have to be Trump based. DeJoy is a ethical nightmare. It could just be some scheme to skim out money to put in his own pocket. We're dealing with out in the open kleptocracy here.

[Blackhawk]

It doesn't matter if they're funded when the guy with the checkbook works for Trump. They can triple the funding if they want. The PMG can then spend millions of high end equipment, for instance, but never order it to be installed.

[Enough]

From the article, they know of 19 machines from 5 facilities. It's not a good look, but it's not necessarily nefarious.

Is it 100% "nefarious"? No. Still they also don't deserve the benefit of doubt anymore. If it smells with this administration it probably is bad. It doesn't even have to be Trump based. DeJoy is a ethical nightmare. It could just be some scheme to skim out money to put in his own pocket. We're dealing with out in the open kleptocracy here.

Agreed, adn given all the other reporting we clearly know that changes are leading to in some cases serious delivery delays. Another thing they might normally do but raises suspicions under current circumstances:

https://twitter.com/ThinkUpstream/statu ... 3309445120

https://twitter.com/ThinkUpstream/statu ... 3309445120

Spoiler:

he USPS is literally backing up trucks to mailboxes and taking them away. Here are photos of mailboxes being “decommissioned” in SE Portland and Eugene, Ore. Check out how many are already on the trucks! But today's news is probably going to be about "golden showers" instead.

And speaking of golden showers, maybe this is why Trump wants those high-flow showers?

[malchior]

Let's be honest. The country is in a state of open lawlessness. I've been saying this will be the worst election we've ever seen and yet I didn't think it'd get this bad. I thought we'd be dealing with bullshit investigations (probably still coming!) but this is a full on assault we have to be ready to take to the streets. We might not have a choice here.

[Kraken]

Let's be honest. The country is in a state of open lawlessness. I've been saying this will be the worst election we've ever seen and yet I didn't think it'd get this bad. I thought we'd be dealing with bullshit investigations (probably still coming!) but this is a full on assault we have to be ready to take to the streets. We might not have a choice here.

And if enough of us manage to vote anyway and elect Biden, trump will incite the other side into the streets. It is hard to imagine an orderly, peaceful outcome.

[Holman]

Let's be honest. The country is in a state of open lawlessness. I've been saying this will be the worst election we've ever seen and yet I didn't think it'd get this bad. I thought we'd be dealing with bullshit investigations (probably still coming!) but this is a full on assault we have to be ready to take to the streets. We might not have a choice here.

And if enough of us manage to vote anyway and elect Biden, trump will incite the other side into the streets. It is hard to imagine an orderly, peaceful outcome.

I'm actually optimistic that we won't be seeing Trump-supporting mobs.

Trump's most fervent supporters (aside from the alt-right militias whose numbers are too small for national impact and who actually consider themselves independent of GOP control) are the middle-aged social-media soldiers of right-wing conspiracy theory.

If Trump is going to turn out mobs in the street, those would be the cadres, but here's the thing: they've never shown up. Democrat-aligned groups have managed to self-generate sustained protests for weeks on end, even in the face of tear gas and truncheons and unmarked arrests, but the Right can barely produce a handful of beer bellies for a single day's significant action. When QAnon or the rump of the Tea Party declares a Big Day on the D.C. Mall, they produce crowds in the low dozens. When Dems do the same in cities across America, they get tens of thousands.

I believe the Right has a dangerous handful of dangerous extremists, and I fear that some of them will be willing to take dangerous action, but I don't believe they have crowds that they can mobilize to match ours.