Election integrity and the transfer of power

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:57 am

Paingod wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:43 am I mean, next week will we hear that Trump is auctioning off the Smithsonian collections to help pay for national debt he created? Maybe NASA will be completely eliminated because it can be privatized. Maybe the Washington monument is blocking his view and needs to come down. That's the kind of shit I no longer think is impossible. The man, and his party, have no rock bottom at this point.

Don't joke about it. While 3 may still be satirical outrage right now. 1 and 2 are both very realistic things that fit within this administrations actions and objectives. Only I don't think POTUS group would arrange for an auction, I think they'd arrange for private sales based on the pricing of his hand chosen personal government actuaries and lawyers.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:22 am

The DeJoy hearings are happening now. More thoughts later but the hot take is that he is performing as expected. Flat out lying to Congress. He made the ridiculous claim in response to a Republican Senator that many employees and customers were already responding positively to the changes they are making. It's Trump like crazy reframing of reality. I'll say he has an ability to make it sound normal which Trump completely fails at that now.

Edit 1: As an aside, the GOP Senators are a complete disgrace. I expected tossing out softballs but they are straight out leaning into aiding and abetting the lies.

Edit 2: He is essentially saying all these problems are not his fault and he made only one policy change. Trucks have to leave the office on time no matter what. He says this change was intended to improve efficiency but a variety of reasons are behind the issues we are now seeing.

Edit 3: Senator Rosen carved him up like a turkey. Some of the most effective questioning I've seen so far. She essentially got him to admit that no one did an analysis of how the changes would affect mail delivery - specifically she called out medication delivery impact (especially to seniors) and how the changes impacted veterans.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:32 am

He actually claimed that the mail is getting there faster.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:39 am

When asked why the mail sorters were being removed he said, "I have no idea". Lying or incompetence. Pick one. In any other, non-corrupt administration would already be out the door.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:47 am

This is just alternating awkward lying with political theater. I'm just going to turn it off and read the cliff notes later.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:52 am

malchior wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:39 am When asked why the mail sorters were being removed he said, "I have no idea". Lying or incompetence. Pick one. In any other, non-corrupt administration would already be out the door.

I mean, you can't expect him to know why core infrastructure to the USPS mission is being disable and dismantled. It's not like he's in charge.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:58 am

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:52 am
malchior wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:39 am When asked why the mail sorters were being removed he said, "I have no idea". Lying or incompetence. Pick one. In any other, non-corrupt administration would already be out the door.
I mean, you can't expect him to know why core infrastructure to the USPS mission is being disable and dismantled. It's not like he's in charge.

Right. FWIW I don't smell a hint of incompetence here. This is a guy with a good command of the facts and you can tell by the way he talks that he understands the issues. He knows key figures and important metrics off the top of his head (number of trucks/cash on hand/budget numbers/overtime rates/on-time departure rates from sorting facilities/etc.).

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:00 am

malchior wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:58 am
Smoove_B wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:52 am
malchior wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:39 am When asked why the mail sorters were being removed he said, "I have no idea". Lying or incompetence. Pick one. In any other, non-corrupt administration would already be out the door.
I mean, you can't expect him to know why core infrastructure to the USPS mission is being disable and dismantled. It's not like he's in charge.
Right. FWIW I don't smell a hint of incompetence here. This is a guy with a good command of the facts and you can tell by the way he talks that he understands the issues. He also knows a lot of key figures and important metrics (number of trucks/cash on hand/budget numbers/overtime rates/etc.) off the top of his head.

One of the 'attaboys' that got tossed at him just before I tuned out was, paraphrasing, "Well, gosh. People keep asking for the data, but it's only been 60 days, and that's not long for gathering data!"

If that's true, then why the *#(&$! are you making industry-altering decisions without data?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:03 am

Yeah that was Enzi I believe. He was being a total sarcastic dick bag who doesn't take the problems seriously.

The performance of oversight by the GOP Senator here is pretty scary. Impeachment showed that the institution was damaged but if this is the caliber of performance...sheesh. It's really bad. Romney even was treating this guy like a fellow titan of industry complete with over the top back slapping. It was ridiculous.

Edit: Solid, solid take here.

https://twitter.com/waltshaub/status/12 ... 3071777792

The sham Senate hearing to rehabilitate Postmaster General Louis DeJoy’s lies is a vivid demonstration that the Fascist Party is a full service operation. The executive branch attacks your republic and the Senate his here to gaslight you about it. Ron Johnson hates America.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:18 am

As I pointed out in EBG, the credit card companies will not take lightly the slowing down of their cash flow. Let's get some Illuminati action on the case.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:44 am

Jaymann wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:18 am As I pointed out in EBG, the credit card companies will not take lightly the slowing down of their cash flow. Let's get some Illuminati action on the case.

Mnuchin engineered this whole thing for the benefit of plutocratic looting. The credit card companies and banks will get their taste.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:48 am

Won't someone think about the late fees?!?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:59 pm

Keep in mind Ron Johnson and many GOP senators said the Democrats were lying and making this issue up.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SenGaryPeter ... 4516152322

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:33 am

I can't find the original comment where someone talked about Trump having goons show up at polling stations, but hey, guess what?

From ABC News:

"Are you going to have poll watchers?" the Fox News host asked Trump on Thursday. "Are you going to have an ability to monitor, to avoid fraud and crosscheck whether or not these are registered voters?"

"We're going to have everything," Trump responded. "We're going to have sheriffs, and we're going to have law enforcement, and we're going to have, hopefully, U.S. attorneys, and we're going to have everybody, and attorney generals. But it's very hard."

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:35 pm

The DeJoy hearing is going as expected. He is basically lying again. Representative Cooper notably dug into a line of questioning that essentially invited DeJoy to admit to using straw donors. DeJoy declined to implicate himself especially since Cooper appeared to be just fishing. He also asked him if his backup plan is to be pardoned like Roger Stone. Jeez.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:49 pm

I didn't see the actual exchange, but a Facebook friend quoted where DeJoy admitted removal of sorting machines, admitted they did have a detrimental impact on mail sorting efficiency, then when asked why he wouldn't put them back replied because they were not needed.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:13 pm

I posted earlier the quote from a friend of mine who works for the USPS. My cousin also works there. He is a supervisor, and second generation USPS lifer. He said they they had their sorting machines removed and packages are piling up in every square foot of the plant.

There is no logistical control, trucks leave empty while full ones come in, adding to the backlog. No direction from leadership, just "do what you were doing before but without the machines."

This all feels like they want to completely sieze up the system by the end of Sept her.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:18 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:13 pmThis all feels like they want to completely sieze up the system by the end of Sept her.

I hereby volunteer to have every package, letter, bill, notice, and junk flier that the post office would normally deliver to my address sit untouched on the floor of a warehouse for the next four years as long as ballots get where they belong on time.

I know things are getting backed up. I just hope that there are enough people at the USPS who see this for what it is and prioritize the ballots over everything else when they start coming in.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:02 pm

In case anyone wants to see the clip:

https://twitter.com/RBReich/status/1297981449317081089

Porter: Will you commit to reversing these changes?
DeJoy: No
Porter: If the Inspector General finds you've committed misconduct, will you resign?
DeJoy: I don't think I should.

This exchange between @RepKatiePorter
and Postmaster DeJoy is breathtaking.

How he's not just tossed out immediately, I have no idea.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:14 pm

Break out ye olde fainting couch - the Republicans have been implicated in electoral shennanigans!

https://twitter.com/SCOTUSblog/status/1 ... 6532568065

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:09 am

DeJoy promised to halt changes to mail service until after the election, right?

That explains why they just shitcanned a brand new sorting machine in Grand Junction, Colorado. They spent two months getting it up and running and then tore it apart to sort by hand.

Did he promise that to Congress and there's some weight behind this or was it just a circus he was participating in?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:36 pm

Paingod wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:09 am DeJoy promised to halt changes to mail service until after the election, right?

That explains why they just shitcanned a brand new sorting machine in Grand Junction, Colorado. They spent two months getting it up and running and then tore it apart to sort by hand.

Did he promise that to Congress and there's some weight behind this or was it just a circus he was participating in?

One thing is almost certain. DeJoy is a straight up villain. I don't know what he was promised but he has a purpose in this.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:45 pm

malchior wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:36 pmOne thing is almost certain. DeJoy is a straight up villain. I don't know what he was promised but he has a purpose in this.

I do like when politicians say what I'm thinking.

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1 ... 4553978884

WHOA: Rep. Jim Cooper (D-TN) to the Postmaster General at today's hearing: "Mr. DeJoy, is your backup plan to be pardoned like Roger Stone?"

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:55 pm

I'd normally think that was grandstanding but DeJoy deserves nothing but scorn. He showed up to prove that he could lie and get away with it.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:28 pm

So what is the end game here? Does the oversight committee actually have any power to do anything? And if not, what's the point of this whole dog and pony show?

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:41 pm

YellowKing wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:28 pm So what is the end game here? Does the oversight committee actually have any power to do anything? And if not, what's the point of this whole dog and pony show?

Very much generalizing based on what I've read about this issue (Congress' ability and willingness to actually enforce punitive measures wrt those who thwart or ignore congressional hearings):
Technically they have the power, but have also ceded a lot of that power over the years to the executive branch. Either because of precedent, or ??? they have chosen not to use the literal enforcement allotted to them, which I guess is the sergeant at arms? First they would have to pass a vote on "contempt", and then they CAN actually arrest someone, but I don't think that has happened for a long time. I have no idea WHY that is so little used (and for all intents and purposes, never used in modern times).

So yes, until someone decides "OK dammit, time to bring out the damn sergeant at arms", it's a circus/dog and pony show.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:44 pm

YellowKing wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:28 pm So what is the end game here? Does the oversight committee actually have any power to do anything? And if not, what's the point of this whole dog and pony show?

It sucks to be the minority party, so there's not much the Dems can really do. But hearings generate headlines, and headlines drive voter behavior.

At a baseline, this is about motivating voters to reject this administration. It also gets the word out that if you vote by mail you should do it early.

Default · Post by **Default** » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:42 pm

Agreed. I delivered my first ballot today. Still working from six to 9 because of the parcels. 10 and 1/2 routes did not get lettersize mail on Monday, the heaviest day of the week. It's a fucking nightmare, and even the Trumpers in the office are starting to stir a little.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:08 am

In other news, the Washington Post Editorial Board takes a ... rosy view on the DeJoy hearings. They take DeJoy at his word even though we have evidence he was lying and we have ongoing reports that machines are still being decommissioned. They also don't seem to contemplate that removing/destroying processing capability seems like an odd way to save money without providing some sort of analysis proving that counter-intuitive strategy.

We now know that recent delays in mail and package deliveries were partly caused by cost-cutting measures ordered by Postmaster General Louis DeJoy, who implemented them without much prior consultation. We know, too, that Mr. DeJoy is under pressure to rein in costs from Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, who, in turn, is responding to President Trump — who is obsessed with the false notion that underpriced package delivery for Amazon is the cause of USPS’s chronic financial woes. (Amazon chief executive Jeff Bezos owns The Post.)

We know that Mr. Trump is deliberately sowing fear that the Postal Service cannot deliver mail-in ballots, which are necessary for safe voting during the pandemic, without $25 billion in congressional funding — aid House Democrats support but he does not. That claim is untrue, as the Postal Service itself has said, but the president doesn’t care because his interest is in delegitimizing the election. Nor is it necessarily true that Mr. DeJoy’s reforms would have affected the election, though you can hardly blame Democrats for saying so, given Mr. Trump’s rhetoric.

In any case, Mr. DeJoy has somewhat defused a crisis of confidence by promising to halt the cost-cutting measures through November. That provides a benchmark for continued oversight, which Congress must not hesitate to provide over the coming months. State governments also are now on notice that voters need sufficient time to obtain and mail absentee ballots. Of all the ways to prevent slow mail from disenfranchising voters, realistic state deadlines are among those Mr. Trump cannot influence, and states should pursue the necessary legislative and administrative changes urgently.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:43 am

Default wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:42 pmTrumpers in the office are starting to stir a little.

You may have eaten the Carolina Reaper whole just to prove a point. You may have ignored your gurgling, miserable stomach. It gets really hard to stay cool about it when it comes out the other end and your ass starts breathing fire.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:38 pm

A hopefully positive development

https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/1299393217633415168

BREAKING: The NBA just announced that all basketball arenas will he turned into 2020 voting locations.

Ample space for large amounts of people to vote safely.

Can't wait to see how Trump rails against this one.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:41 pm

Skinypupy wrote:A hopefully positive development

https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/1299393217633415168

BREAKING: The NBA just announced that all basketball arenas will he turned into 2020 voting locations.

Ample space for large amounts of people to vote safely.
Can't wait to see how Trump rails against this one.

BIASED NBA LOOKING TO FIX VOTE IN HOME ARENAS! UNFAIR!

Drazzil · Post by **Drazzil** » Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:10 am

Alefroth wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:51 pm
Kraken wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:20 am I, for one, miss Drazzil.
Wonder what happened to him. It would have been interesting to get his reports from Portland.

Waking up at night with my eyes burning from residual tear gas at night, listening to those flashbang things going off over and over. I live (literally) right over the Burnside bridge.

I personally did not participate in the protests becuase I had no desire to be beaten by the police or the feds. And I have pre existing medical conditions that would make having COVID difficult.

I stayed inside and watched it unfold on twitter.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:48 pm

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1 ... 1551433730

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1 ... 3229155336

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:27 pm

https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1 ... 2157280257

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:14 pm

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/ ... 61728?s=20

Yeah, that's not how it works. It gets caught later, and then you're known to have committed vote fraud.

Go for it, Trumpers!

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:37 pm

No matter. Barr isn't sure if that is illegal. He posits that maybe some theoretical state allows this (hint: they don't!)

https://twitter.com/DWUhlfelderLaw/stat ... 3882335233

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:58 pm

To against the grain here, during the primaries, Michigan said if you feared your vote was going to be late during the primaries you should vote twice and that your vote from the polls would supersede your absentee ballot.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:01 pm

LordMortis wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:58 pm To against the grain here, during the primaries, Michigan said if you feared your vote was going to be late during the primaries you should vote twice and that your vote from the polls would supersede your absentee ballot.

Really? How do they keep track? In most states a poll is anonymous - you just check in. For example, in NJ this is how it works and an absentee ballot has no identifying information. They validate the signature on the envelope is good then they toss it but keep the ballot. It'd be impossible to match them here.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:02 pm

This bears repeating:

The Attorney General of the United States:

Not sure if it is illegal to vote twice.

Not sure...