Trump vs. Biden - the Final Showdown

[Skinypupy]

So if Biden wins but the Crapublicans hold the Senate, will they try to stonewall any SCOTUS appointments for four years?

How would that would work if RBG retires or, god forbid, passes relatively soon into a Biden presidency? They can't just leave a SCOTUS seat vacant for 3+ years, can they (he asks with significant trepidation)?

[Holman]

So if Biden wins but the Crapublicans hold the Senate, will they try to stonewall any SCOTUS appointments for four years?

How would that would work if RBG retires or, god forbid, passes relatively soon into a Biden presidency? They can't just leave a SCOTUS seat vacant for 3+ years, can they (he asks with significant trepidation)?

They could try, but if Biden's presidency is going decently well, it seems like the kind of thing that voters would punish.

[Defiant]

So if Biden wins but the Crapublicans hold the Senate, will they try to stonewall any SCOTUS appointments for four years?

How would that would work if RBG retires or, god forbid, passes relatively soon into a Biden presidency? They can't just leave a SCOTUS seat vacant for 3+ years, can they (he asks with significant trepidation)?

They could try, but if Biden's presidency is going decently well, it seems like the kind of thing that voters would punish.

If they had an attention span longer than a couple of weeks, anyway.

[malchior]

So if Biden wins but the Crapublicans hold the Senate, will they try to stonewall any SCOTUS appointments for four years?

How would that would work if RBG retires or, god forbid, passes relatively soon into a Biden presidency? They can't just leave a SCOTUS seat vacant for 3+ years, can they (he asks with significant trepidation)?

They could try, but if Biden's presidency is going decently well, it seems like the kind of thing that voters would punish.

If they had an attention span longer than a couple of weeks, anyway.

Another issues is it'd be hard to pin the responsibility for inaction on SCOTUS appointment (in)actions to more than a couple individuals. Heck intentional obstruction/inaction on a variety of issues *helps* them electorally sometimes.

[El Guapo]

So if Biden wins but the Crapublicans hold the Senate, will they try to stonewall any SCOTUS appointments for four years?

How would that would work if RBG retires or, god forbid, passes relatively soon into a Biden presidency? They can't just leave a SCOTUS seat vacant for 3+ years, can they (he asks with significant trepidation)?

Oh, sweet naive Skinypupy. Of course they can leave a SCOTUS seat vacant for four years. People will be initially shocked, then it will become old news pretty quickly, and people will get used to an 8 justice SCOTUS.

[Blackhawk]

But... but... who would be the tiebreaker in all those 5-3 votes?

[El Guapo]

I will say, if it's Ginsburg, then McConnell might allow Biden to confirm a replacement for her, since that wouldn't change the ideological makeup of the court. If any of the 5 conservative justices died, then he would 100% blockade any replacement.

[malchior]

More good news - Trump campaign going the way of all his businesses - Trump campaign financial advantage collapses. This likely explains the lack of ad buys we've been hearing about in key states. I can't help but feel this was "planned" and a lot of cash is making its way to Trump's corrupt brood. Call it a parting gift. Just get the f out.

Money was supposed to have been one of the great advantages of incumbency for President Trump, much as it was for President Barack Obama in 2012 and George W. Bush in 2004. After getting outspent in 2016, Mr. Trump filed for re-election on the day of his inauguration — earlier than any other modern president — betting that the head start would deliver him a decisive financial advantage this year.

It seemed to have worked. His rival, Joseph R. Biden Jr., was relatively broke when he emerged as the presumptive Democratic nominee this spring, and Mr. Trump and the Republican National Committee had a nearly $200 million cash advantage.

Five months later, Mr. Trump’s financial supremacy has evaporated. Of the $1.1 billon his campaign and the party raised from the beginning of 2019 through July, more than $800 million has already been spent. Now some people inside the campaign are forecasting what was once unthinkable: a cash crunch with less than 60 days until the election, according to Republican officials briefed on the matter.

Brad Parscale, the former campaign manager, liked to call Mr. Trump’s re-election war machine an “unstoppable juggernaut.” But interviews with more than a dozen current and former campaign aides and Trump allies, and a review of thousands of items in federal campaign filings, show that the president’s campaign and the R.N.C. developed some profligate habits as they burned through hundreds of millions of dollars. Since Bill Stepien replaced Mr. Parscale in July, the campaign has imposed a series of belt-tightening measures that have reshaped initiatives, including hiring practices, travel and the advertising budget.

[El Guapo]

Sometimes it's helpful that Trumpworld is rife with corruption and incompetence.

[Yojimbo]

Biden shows you can work in Washington and still be a good person. Watch him talk about his son Beau, service or tragedy. That’s an authentic person there, if you can recognize one.

It’s an easy stereotype to call all politicians crooks and out of touch. That’s the lie used to normalize Trump.

I'm not sure if you intended to damn Biden with faint praise - but you yielded forth the textbook definition of such.

Calling politicians crooks and out of touch predated Trump and will continue long after Trump is gone. The idea that citizens should stop calling out corruption, cronyism and failure to keep promises made back home because it might benefit the strange orange man is suspect in my view.

To your larger point, Joe does come across like he has a love for people. The pain of burying his son is past my comprehension. I never found anything creepy about him holding on to kids and sniffing hair - I think he is just "touchy". But a lot of loving 80 year olds are "nice" - I fear that a nice (yet very angry) POTUS might get chopped up by our allies, not to mention our many frenemies.

If you can, imagine Trump uttering some of Joe's choicest gaffs.
"You ain't black..."
"What you all know, but most people don’t know, unlike the African American community, with notable exceptions, the Latino community is an incredibly diverse community, with incredibly different attitudes about different things."
“...poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids,”

If Trump, Ron Paul (or most anyone else) said these things it would be evidence of his internal bigotry. It would be viewed as a glimpse at his secret heart. Yet Biden does not get treated that way by the media. Worse, he somehow still thinks he is entitled to the vote of EVERY African American citizen (as he literally said) based on their genetic makeup alone. A man can be a real "sweetheart" 90% of the time and also a racist - I had a grandfather that proves this.

Based on the pattern of those comments Biden is treating African Americans like a stepladder that he needs to use for a few moments to get where he is going.

[noxiousdog]

Are you trying to say Biden is a closet racist?

Even if that were true, I'd prefer that to someone doing it wide out in the open and encouraging and hiring more racists.

[Zarathud]

You are seriously stretching to paint Biden in the worst light possible. I think few will agree that I’m faint in my posting here.

If you are against corruption and graft, you must oppose Trump’s Crony Republicanism.

If you have evidence that Biden is any of those things you claim, state your case rather than rely on prejudice and supposition.

If you are against racism and using people, you must oppose Trump’s Anti-Immigrant Republicanism.

If you think a few gaffes or foot in mouth statements by Biden make him a racist, have you forgotten the thousands of racist statements by Trump.

But actions speak more loudly than words.

Trump wouldn’t attend civil rights leader John Lewis’ funeral. Biden was campaigning in Selma and welcomed by black leadership. Can you be a secret racist and be good friends with Obama and civil rights leader? I think not.

Trump was elected literally for opposing black President Obama and building a wall to keep Latinos out. He calls white nationalists in Charlottesville “very fine people” and wants us to hear the “many sides” in racist “innocent protests”. But black lives matters protests about videotaped abuse are called by Trump just a bunch of “thugs” on a plane there only to riot.

Even if there was a universe where Biden was taking advantage of minority voters (and he’s not), Trump is more than willing to see those voters dead or deported. Pretty easy contrast.

Biden has the benefit of being in government so we know he’s experienced and was relatively boring as VP. Stability matters after Trump’s intentional chaos.

[coopasonic]

I was listening to a podcast that offered the helpful reminder that Democrats *always* worry that they're going to lose and Republicans *always* assume they're going to win. This is true even of elections that turn out to be Blue waves, such as 2018.

I just saw something oddly relevant on facebook this morning...

Intelligent people are full of doubt, while stupid people are full of confidence.

[El Guapo]

I was listening to a podcast that offered the helpful reminder that Democrats *always* worry that they're going to lose and Republicans *always* assume they're going to win. This is true even of elections that turn out to be Blue waves, such as 2018.

I just saw something oddly relevant on facebook this morning...

Intelligent people are full of doubt, while stupid people are full of confidence.

The Dunning-Kruger effect.

[Defiant]

More good news - Trump campaign going the way of all his businesses - Trump campaign financial advantage collapses.

Trump Weighs Putting Up to $100 Million of His Cash Into Race

Yeah, I'm skeptical too.

[Yojimbo]

If you have evidence that Biden is any of those things you claim, state your case rather than rely on prejudice and supposition.

I just quoted Biden in his own words cut-n-pasted from the NYT. If you don't seen any racism in those comments there is no proof that will work for you, I understand. I don't think its secret at all - Biden says what he says about African Americans and I would not add to it or take away from it.

[Defiant]

Biden frequently puts his foot in his mouth.

But he's not a racist.

[Yojimbo]

Biden frequently puts his foot in his mouth.

But he's not a racist.

I think its OK for us to have different thresholds to acknowledge racism as individuals.

Where I see a persistent pattern of making racist comments anytime Biden is not reading from a script some may just see a kind older gentleman putting his foot in his mouth so often that iT seems racist some % of the time. As long as you all are consistently gracious to all humans who make multiple comments that seem really racist I have no beef with an open-heated standard. Maybe ignoring racism iS the path to fixing it, but we tried that in the 1970s and I was told it didn't work.

[LawBeefaroni]

Biden frequently puts his foot in his mouth.

But he's not a racist.

I think its OK for us to have different thresholds to acknowledge racism as individuals.

Where I see a persistent pattern of making racist comments anytime Biden is not reading from a script some may just see a kind older gentleman putting his foot in his mouth so often that iT seems racist some % of the time. As long as you all are consistently gracious to all humans who make multiple comments that seem really racist I have no beef with an open-heated standard. Maybe ignoring racism iS the path to fixing it, but we tried that in the 1970s and I was told it didn't work.

He's an old white rich dude. He can, and will, say things that you can construe as racist because he speaks, and thinks, like an old white rich dude. That's his native language. He's baseline at worst.

Painting him as a closet racist is not accurate.

[coopasonic]

Racist intent vs unconscious bias. I am pretty sure it is the latter for Biden.

[TheMix]

"persistent pattern"?

How many times has Biden spoken off script? 10k? 20k? And you provided 3 examples. That you find that a "persistent pattern" is likely far more telling of your prejudices than his.

[El Guapo]

Racist intent vs unconscious bias. I am pretty sure it is the latter for Biden.

Yeah I would say so. Part of this is that people tend to think of "Racist" as a binary category, in that you are either racist or not racist. Biden's 78 years old, and it's essentially impossible for someone who grew up then (or even today, on a different scale) to not grow up with some implicit ideas that are at least racist adjacent. Like the "poor kids vs. white kids" remark, or praising Obama in the lead up to 2008 as a "clean well spoken young man" (not sure if that's the exact quote, but something like that) both indicate an implicit view of African Americans that's not super flattering.

But he's grown and evolved, and clearly gotten better. Ultimately kind of a moot point for this election as the "racism contest" isn't remotely close here, but it's fair to acknowledge that Biden has some bias issues of his own.

[Yojimbo]

"persistent pattern"?

How many times has Biden spoken off script? 10k? 20k? And you provided 3 examples. That you find that a "persistent pattern" is likely far more telling of your prejudices than his.

I have quoted three and I think that is too many. Can I ask how many racist comments you think are OK?

[LawBeefaroni]

"persistent pattern"?

How many times has Biden spoken off script? 10k? 20k? And you provided 3 examples. That you find that a "persistent pattern" is likely far more telling of your prejudices than his.

I have quoted three and I think that is too many. Can I ask how many racist comments you think are OK?

That's your purity test? < 3 possibly racist comments? So who passes? Infants?

Going to be difficult to find a candidate.

[YellowKing]

I'm struggling to determine how undermining Biden helps us in any way, shape, or form. I've got friends who are incredibly disappointed that Biden was the nominee, and have spent every waking minute on social media pointing out his flaws.

But he is the nominee. So what's the alternative? Elect Trump because Biden's not the perfect candidate? Seems to be cutting off your nose to spite your face, particularly when many of the Democratic candidates who weren't nominated will likely have important positions and influence in a Biden administration.

If you think that Trump winning and letting the country suffer for 4 more years is going to somehow "wake up" the Democratic establishment and pave the way for a far left progressive candidate in 2024, I think you're living in a fantasy world. The nominee is going to be born out of the country's demographics just as Biden was. They're not going to be spawned out of some sort of revenge fantasy.

[Defiant]

https://twitter.com/GeorgeTakei/status/ ... 8354166785

[Yojimbo]

"persistent pattern"?

How many times has Biden spoken off script? 10k? 20k? And you provided 3 examples. That you find that a "persistent pattern" is likely far more telling of your prejudices than his.

I have quoted three and I think that is too many. Can I ask how many racist comments you think are OK?

That's your purity test? < 3 possibly racist comments? So who passes? Infants?

Going to be difficult to find a candidate.

If you believe that you cannot make a horrible comment without something horrible in your heart, and you consider that this man is aspiring to lead African Americans as President I don't think a high standard is that bad.

If you believe that racist comments are natural outgrowth of speech I would expect you to make all manner of allowances for every human who makes them all the time.

As long as you don't want it both ways I'm content.

[LawBeefaroni]

If you believe that racist comments are natural outgrowth of speech I would expect you to make all manner of allowances for every human who makes them all the time.

As long as you don't want it both ways I'm content.

That's a whopper of a false equivalent.


I believe that some comments that some people may construe as racist are the result of an anachronism (possibly language, possibly outlook). These are excusable in moderation.

I don't believe this is anything like the thinly veiled dog whistles and outright racist comments that others utter.

[El Guapo]

"persistent pattern"?

How many times has Biden spoken off script? 10k? 20k? And you provided 3 examples. That you find that a "persistent pattern" is likely far more telling of your prejudices than his.

I have quoted three and I think that is too many. Can I ask how many racist comments you think are OK?

That's your purity test? < 3 possibly racist comments? So who passes? Infants?

Going to be difficult to find a candidate.

If you believe that you cannot make a horrible comment without something horrible in your heart, and you consider that this man is aspiring to lead African Americans as President I don't think a high standard is that bad.

If you believe that racist comments are natural outgrowth of speech I would expect you to make all manner of allowances for every human who makes them all the time.

As long as you don't want it both ways I'm content.

Does it matter that Biden is the democratic nominee in large part because he had overwhelming support from the African American community? Notwithstanding his flaws, that seems like a pretty good qualification for leading African Americans as President (understanding that he would be leading everyone, not just any one minority group).

[noxiousdog]

"persistent pattern"?

How many times has Biden spoken off script? 10k? 20k? And you provided 3 examples. That you find that a "persistent pattern" is likely far more telling of your prejudices than his.

I have quoted three and I think that is too many. Can I ask how many racist comments you think are OK?

That's your purity test? < 3 possibly racist comments? So who passes? Infants?

Going to be difficult to find a candidate.

If you believe that you cannot make a horrible comment without something horrible in your heart, and you consider that this man is aspiring to lead African Americans as President I don't think a high standard is that bad.

If you believe that racist comments are natural outgrowth of speech I would expect you to make all manner of allowances for every human who makes them all the time.

As long as you don't want it both ways I'm content.

That's ridiculous. I've made -plenty- of horrible comments in my life and I'm pretty sure I'd only go down as above average in that category.

[malchior]

If you believe that racist comments are natural outgrowth of speech I would expect you to make all manner of allowances for every human who makes them all the time.

As long as you don't want it both ways I'm content.

That's a whopper of a false equivalent.


I believe that some comments that some people may construe as racist are the result of an anachronism (possibly language, possibly outlook). These are excusable in moderation.

It's very helpful too when they show they've learned from the mistake. The best outcome to acknowledge the gap and turn it into a teaching moment for others. These things happen. Especially nowadays where many are hyper-sensitive to everything and looking to be *outraged* all day every day.

[Holman]

Biden's gaffes around race seem to reflect an old-person's cluelessness about modern nuance and changing norms.

He might (I'm making up an example) unfortunately imply that blacks "accomplish less," but the comment would be born out of an underlying sense that they are given less opportunity to succeed.

This is miles above the racist implication that they accomplish less because they're somehow inferior people or that they'll ruin your suburb by moving in.

[Defiant]

Is Biden racist in a we're-all-a-little-racist--and-tribal-and-transpose-experiences-with-individuals-on-groups-as-a-whole, than probably, in the same way almost everyone is. And has he made mistakes in the past? Again, probably, the way most people have.

But is he actually racist-racist, then no. He's a gaffe machine, in part because of his stutter and in part because he's an old man from a different time and in part because he's been in politics for five decades and after five decades in the public eye, most people would have clips of them saying gaffes.

But if you're trying to convince me that the guy who served as Obama's VP and who earned the vote of the majority of the African American community and has been listening and open to trying to address the problems of racism, then you're trying to pull my leg.

Especially in a race where the other candidate has been openly courting white supremacists for years, it's an absurd allegation to level at Biden.

[Yojimbo]

[/quote]It's very helpful too when they show they've learned from the mistake. The best outcome to acknowledge the gap and turn it into a teaching moment for others. These things happen. Especially nowadays where many are hyper-sensitive to everything and looking to be *outraged* all day every day.
[/quote]

This is wise, I think your look toward progress can only come from acknowledgment of the mis-step.

[Holman]

More good news - Trump campaign going the way of all his businesses - Trump campaign financial advantage collapses.

Trump Weighs Putting Up to $100 Million of His Cash Into Race

Yeah, I'm skeptical too.

I just saw that the Trump campaign is pulling its TV ads out of Arizona for September in order to save money for a return in October.

Arizona is a swing state where Biden leads by 4%. It should definitely be a Trump campaign target. Ceding the airwaves for a month (which means early voting will have begun) seems pretty desperate.

Biden's August donation tally was something like $365 million, which is not only amazing but literally unprecedented. The previous record was a $200 million month by Obama. I believe Trump's best month ever was $165 million.

[Jaymann]

Money talks, grifters walk.

[Yojimbo]

Biden's gaffes around race seem to reflect an old-person's cluelessness about modern nuance and changing norms.

This is how my family view him almost exactly. When he described Obama as "bright and clean" I thought I had traveled back in time.

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man." Biden did call Obama afterward to account for this comment, in fairness. Its not clear if he apologized to every other African American he met before 2006.

I suppose if some PPM of rodent hair is allowed in my oatmeal I should probably find a Defect Level Handbook for racist comments and learn to live with it.

[malchior]

But is he actually racist-racist, then no. He's a gaffe machine, in part because of his stutter and in part because he's an old man from a different time and in part because he's been in politics for five decades and after five decades in the public eye, most people would have clips of them saying gaffes.

Seriously. The guy is potentially the first 'Silent Generation' President. A generation that previously was entirely skipped as President. He turned 18 in *1960*. He had now controversial views on busing (remember that old chestnut from last year - aka a century ago). He got knocked out of the 1988 election for mildly plagiarizing a speech from the UK (how quaint!) Despite all that, the stuff they've dredged up it is hardly mean-spirited.

[TheMix]

"persistent pattern"?

How many times has Biden spoken off script? 10k? 20k? And you provided 3 examples. That you find that a "persistent pattern" is likely far more telling of your prejudices than his.

I have quoted three and I think that is too many. Can I ask how many racist comments you think are OK?

Don't be an ass. I never stated that comments that could be perceived as racist are okay. I said that your jump to calling three comments out of tens of thousands of comments a "persistent pattern" is absurd.

And for the record, I'm going to take the stance that you are racist. I'm willing to bet that if we could look at every comment you ever made since you learned to speak, that we'd find at least 3 comments that could be taken as racist.

I'm reasonably confident that I've probably made some comments that were not fully thought through. Hell, by your measure I'm likely a sexist as well. And likely a lot of other "-ists".

[Yojimbo]

"persistent pattern"?

How many times has Biden spoken off script? 10k? 20k? And you provided 3 examples. That you find that a "persistent pattern" is likely far more telling of your prejudices than his.

I have quoted three and I think that is too many. Can I ask how many racist comments you think are OK?

Don't be an ass. I never stated that comments that could be perceived as racist are okay. I said that your jump to calling three comments out of tens of thousands of comments a "persistent pattern" is absurd.

And for the record, I'm going to take the stance that you are racist. I'm willing to bet that if we could look at every comment you ever made since you learned to speak, that we'd find at least 3 comments that could be taken as racist.

I'm reasonably confident that I've probably made some comments that were not fully thought through. Hell, by your measure I'm likely a sexist as well. And likely a lot of other "-ists".

The personal attacks are not really needed here. You could do better, I think.