Political Randomness

[Daehawk]

https://twitter.com/RichardGarriott/sta ... 6106432512

[Jaymann]

She looks like a fucking demon.

[Kurth]

For once, I think I may agree with ICE here: This one deserves some skepticism.

I’d like to see a little more evidence before I’m comfortable with the notion that ICE is responsible for implementing a plan to stem illegal immigration by performing mass hysterectomies.

It's not as stratecic as that. It's more like, "these people are trash, sterilize them." As mentioned, we have a long history of this thinking. And it's not ICE, it's the doctor(s) they use. Probably why they use rhe particular doctor(s) though.

Or it could be indicative that they don't care about the significant impact to the person of the procedure. I don't see this as being some Mengele type but it could be someone deeply unethical. To counter balance the skepticism somewhat, the person who came forward to blow the whistle is in the medical unit allegedly. I think it is very likely that something off is happening. The reason/motives are however totally unknown if and when confirmed. The more important part to me is that it indicates that they do not treat these people with dignity. And that isn't unreasonable since this is ICE. They've shown disregard for human rights that we shouldn't tolerate at all.

Seems like a reasonable and rational take. Way more so than instant allegations of genocide and concentration camp experiments.

[malchior]

One million dollar bail for protesters/rioters arrested in protests after a police shooting in Lancaster, PA. Methinks the local judge is a bit of a Trumpist.

As a reference this armed robbery suspect was assessed bail of $250K. However upon looking around for Lancaster, PA bail comparisons...they are just out of their fucking gourd there. They may have a bit of a cash bail issue. John Oliver would not be pleased!

[malchior]

For once, I think I may agree with ICE here: This one deserves some skepticism.

I’d like to see a little more evidence before I’m comfortable with the notion that ICE is responsible for implementing a plan to stem illegal immigration by performing mass hysterectomies.

It's not as stratecic as that. It's more like, "these people are trash, sterilize them." As mentioned, we have a long history of this thinking. And it's not ICE, it's the doctor(s) they use. Probably why they use rhe particular doctor(s) though.

Or it could be indicative that they don't care about the significant impact to the person of the procedure. I don't see this as being some Mengele type but it could be someone deeply unethical. To counter balance the skepticism somewhat, the person who came forward to blow the whistle is in the medical unit allegedly. I think it is very likely that something off is happening. The reason/motives are however totally unknown if and when confirmed. The more important part to me is that it indicates that they do not treat these people with dignity. And that isn't unreasonable since this is ICE. They've shown disregard for human rights that we shouldn't tolerate at all.

Seems like a reasonable and rational take. Way more so than instant allegations of genocide and concentration camp experiments.

Well then we have some more abuses at these facilities like sexually abusing prisoners for favors and then deporting the main witness despite an IG request to keep her available for questioning.

The U.S. government late Monday deported a crucial witness in an ongoing investigation into allegations of sexual assault and harassment at an El Paso immigrant detention center, the witness’ lawyers said.

The 35-year-old woman has been held in the facility, which is overseen by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, for about a year and told lawyers about a “pattern and practice” of abuse there, including that guards systematically assaulted her and other detainees in areas that were not visible to security cameras.

Several guards “forcibly” kissed her, and at least one touched her intimate parts, often as she was walking back from the medical unit to her barrack, according to her complaint filed with law enforcement agencies.

“If she behaved,” she said one guard told her, “he would help her be released.”

The Department of Homeland Security’s Office of Inspector General launched an investigation into the accusations after ProPublica and The Texas Tribune first reported them last month. At least two more women have since come forward with similar allegations of assault.

The inspector general requested that ICE not deport the woman and the FBI interviewed the woman extensively, according to her lawyers. Her attorneys also sent a complaint to the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Western District of Texas and the El Paso County District Attorney’s Office, warning of a potential criminal investigation.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, public health and public health adjacent groups/individuals that I trust and respect promoted the original story on Monday, so I'm inclined to believe it's probably just as (if not more so) horrific than being portrayed.

There needs to be an accounting for this - no question. I genuinely fear what's on the horizon if we don't pull out of the nosedive in November.

[malchior]

FWIW - in a proof there is no bottom in the right - they have a ready defense for this. It doesn't make sense because it isn't cost/time efficient. Really? I'm not saying this person even is right-wing (eh probably is) but I've now seen this similar line on several of the ICE related threads.

Also to note. I saw this segment last night and this was a very weak portion of the incident that was laid out. With more context you understand why an IG and the FBI were taking it seriously. It really sounds like this was *one* doctor but he was not being supervised properly at all. The clip below was just her answering a specific question.

The clip does makes it sound a whole lot like hearsay but relying solely on this clip misleads. What she heard consistently was that many of the females who complained about pain found themselves diagnosed with some reproductive issues (e.g. ovarian cyst, cancer, etc.), went in for an exploratory procedure, and came out sterilized. Was it a billing scam? Maybe but it really needs to be investigated.

https://twitter.com/JohnnyPenso/status/ ... 0437918723

[Paingod]

Sounds bogus. A tubal ligation is a much quicker...

If your goal was simple sterilization, a litigation may be easier. If your goal is to dehumanize and punish, removing reproductive organs is a clearer method.

My wife willingly had her ovaries out in order to give herself a shot at not getting a fatal cancer she would have otherwise had an 87% chance of getting. To this day, years later, she claims she feels like less of a woman and breaks down into tears about it.

Imagine having that level of "care" forced upon you.

Fuck cancer, both at the cellular level and in the executive office.

[disarm]

A tubal ligation is quicker and easier, but it's also harder to make up a justification because pretty much the only reason for doing it is sterilization. In contrast, diagnose a woman with an painful ovarian cyst or malignancy and you can justify removing the ovaries. Abnormal uterine bleeding? Perform a hysterectomy and problems solved. It's much easier to cover up wrongdoing if you have a documented explanation (true or not) to perform the surgery.

[malchior]

I almost can't believe this is a real result but the sampling sounds robust - 1000 nationwide and 200 *per state*. That is a big sample.

23% deny the Holocaust. 66% don't know that 6 M Jews were killed. What the hell is going on? These are supposed to be basic well understood facts...

https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1306091539530223621

[Unagi]

Is that from something like this:

How many Jews were killed in the Holocaust?:

1) None were killed
2) < 50,000
3) < 500,000
5) < 5,000,000
6) < 50,000,000

[stessier]

Is that from something like this:

How many Jews were killed in the Holocaust?:

1) None were killed
2) < 50,000
3) < 500,000
5) < 5,000,000
6) < 50,000,000

Looks like it - which isn't really fair.

Nationally, 63% of respondents did not know 6 million Jews were murdered during the Holocaust, and more than one in three (36%) thought 2 million or fewer had been killed.

Also, I'm not sure the concentration camp thing is concerning. I think it's more a time/distance thing. Knowing it happened is the important part.

According to the study of millennial and Gen Z adults aged between 18 and 39, almost half (48%) could not name a single concentration camp or ghetto established during the second world war.

[Isgrimnur]

Is that from something like this:

How many Jews were killed in the Holocaust?:

1) None were killed
2) < 50,000
3) < 500,000
5) < 5,000,000
6) < 50,000,000

Study

[Smoove_B]

It's much easier to cover up wrongdoing if you have a documented explanation (true or not) to perform the surgery.

And as the party focused on the sanctity of (creating) life, I am sure the GOP is feverishly working behind the scenes right now to uncover exactly what happened. I can only assume that, since they must be so busy on investigating this that they don't have time to comment.

[El Guapo]

And I don't know that I'm that worked up about people not knowing the death toll. Like if someone said 1 or 2 million, I think of that and above as being essentially "a whole lot".

Thinking it was 25,000 or 100,000 is not ideal, though.

[malchior]

And I don't know that I'm that worked up about people not knowing the death toll. Like if someone said 1 or 2 million, I think of that and above as being essentially "a whole lot".

Thinking it was 25,000 or 100,000 is not ideal, though.

Exact no especially since it isn't even universally agreed. More like 6M is the best accepted estimate but not in the neighborhood...not great. But about a quarter not thinking it happened? That's real bad. Is it unfair to think it probably correlates highly with #MAGA and #FLATEARTH?

[TheMix]

I'm confused by the tweet that said ~66% of US adults didn't know 6 million were killed. I assumed that Isg was posting the information from that study. But according to his link, 65% did think it was 6 million (I decided that if someone thinks that 20 million died, they get credit for 6 million.) Wouldn't that mean then that only 35% weren't aware that 6 million were killed? Seems like they got the numbers flipped for the tweet.

[LordMortis]

Is that from something like this:

How many Jews were killed in the Holocaust?:

1) None were killed
2) < 50,000
3) < 500,000
5) < 5,000,000
6) < 50,000,000

Study

Without knowing more, I personally did not learn the term Shoah until college in a class on contemporary philosophy where we watched The Shoah and have only scant heard it referenced since. Also, we should remember WW 2 was 80 years ago now. The numbers will become increasingly abstract as time marches forward. How many Soldiers died in WW 2 or the American Civil War or Viet Nam? What I tend to find odd in these sort of polls is how many people are demonstrably ignorant that would rather guess than simply answer "not sure".

[Defiant]

The used the term "Holocaust" in the US.

*The term ”Shoah” is used in place of “Holocaust” in France

[Isgrimnur]

What I tend to find odd in these sort of polls is how many people are demonstrably ignorant that would rather guess than simply answer "not sure".

Ego is a hell of a drug.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

If nothing else, the fact that the options go 1 million, 2 million, 6 million, 20 million should be a pretty clear giveaway of the correct answer...

[LordMortis]

If nothing else, the fact that the options go 1 million, 2 million, 6 million, 20 million should be a pretty clear giveaway of the correct answer...

I agree, which suggests to me that more good guessers who would refuse to answer "not sure" would answer 6 million because of the way it was set apart. If this was a history test, and those were multiple guess choices, and points weren't subtracted for wrong answers, and I didn't know the answer, I would have answered 6 million from those choices.

But then I'm still stuck on the amount of people who don't know and just don't answer they don't know when nothing is on the line. That's hard for me to get past.

[Jaymann]

I can only name Auschwitz and Dachau, are there others commonly known?

[stessier]

I can only name Auschwitz and Dachau, are there others commonly known?

The survey suggests even those are not commonly known.

[stimpy]

Guess I'll post this here to hopefully satiate anyone that cares. This is in regards to my posts in the NFL thread.
I have expressed my opinion in the past about mixing politics and/or personal beliefs and sports.
I am against it.
Are racial issues politics? I think they can certainly be used as such.
Do I condemn athletes when they speak out against what they feel are injustices? Never.
Do I condemn sports franchises that speak out against what they feel are injustices? Never.
Do I think it's wrong to mix the 2 and then try to force it down my throat? Yes.
Do I think the NFL is backtracking to try and save face? Yes.
Do I think the NFL are hypocrites for banning or threatening to fine players for previous attempts to voice their opinions on matters the players may hold, but for whatever reason (money) have "embraced" this cause? Yes.
Would I have been happy if the NFL caved in on that policy for any other reason? No.
Have I said anything about any other sport that has chosen to partake in the fight to end racism? No.
Do I think the NFL are the most egregious in their new found attempts to support ending racism? Yes.

I hope the above statements clear up any ambiguity to any of those who are interested.

[Jaymann]

While the NFL are certainly no saints, at least they admitted they got it wrong and did an about face. Certainly preferable to ignoring the problem and hugging the flag.

[Fretmute]

I can only name Auschwitz and Dachau, are there others commonly known?

I have those and Treblinka, but that's only because of Say Anything.

[Unagi]

Is that from something like this:

How many Jews were killed in the Holocaust?:

1) None were killed
2) < 50,000
3) < 500,000
5) < 5,000,000
6) < 50,000,000

Study

How is that "Nationally 63%" ?

Also, if you call it the Shoah, that's seem like a bit of a gotcha too.

[Smoove_B]

I have expressed my opinion in the past about mixing politics and/or personal beliefs and sports.
I am against it.

I just wanted to laser in on this, only because I think the core issue is that people want distractions that allow them to completely ignore/forget that the world is on fire. So when trying to watch cars drive around a circular track or see athletes at any level manipulate a sportsball it's really, really uncomfortable to be reminded of systemic racism.

When I (broadly) see people complaining about the interjection of topics like BLM into whatever circus they're using to forget about life for a while, it's another way of saying "I don't care", which is lamentable.

It's also why I think certain people/groups/political parties want sportsball back - because it's a distraction. That it would then be used to broadcast a brief message of social injustice then is extra-intolerable as that is the very thing they're hoping people will forget about and get numb to as distractions are dialed up to 11.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

[Isgrimnur]

And I am annoyed by October pink and Nov-Dec Salvation Army kettles.

[Defiant]

With regards to the poll, perhaps the most disturbing thing is the 7-19% (depending on state) that feel the Jews caused the Holocaust.

http://www.claimscon.org/millennial-study/

[pr0ner]

Do I think the NFL are the most egregious in their new found attempts to support ending racism? Yes.

I hope the above statements clear up any ambiguity to any of those who are interested.

There's ambiguity because you don't explain what the NFL has done with their new found attempts that is so egregious to you for you to be reveling in declining TV ratings.

[stimpy]

How about we laser in on this:

Would I have been happy if the NFL caved in on that policy for any other reason? No.

How many dui's do NFL players get?
Does the NFL have MADD logos and do the announcers talk about the dangers of drinking and driving?
How many wife beaters?
Does the NFL put the names of the victims on their helmets?
Where is the line? What makes one cause more important than any other?
It's them trying to be politically correct and getting behind a cause that doesnt directly make them confront their own league wide issues.

[Defiant]

Is that from something like this:

How many Jews were killed in the Holocaust?:

1) None were killed
2) < 50,000
3) < 500,000
5) < 5,000,000
6) < 50,000,000

Study

How is that "Nationally 63%" ?

Also, if you call it the Shoah, that's seem like a bit of a gotcha too.

This was a different poll from the one mentioned above. This one was run in several countries, was released in January and it used the term Shoah in France.

[hitbyambulance]

I can only name Auschwitz and Dachau, are there others commonly known?

I have those and Treblinka

i had also thought of Buchenwald

[Jaymann]

How about we laser in on this:

Would I have been happy if the NFL caved in on that policy for any other reason? No.

How many dui's do NFL players get?
Does the NFL have MADD logos and do the announcers talk about the dangers of drinking and driving?
How many wife beaters?
Does the NFL put the names of the victims on their helmets?
Where is the line? What makes one cause more important than any other?
It's them trying to be politically correct and getting behind an issue that doesnt directly make them confront their own league wide issues.

Exactly! There is a little publicized but critical shortage of pool boys. It's high time the players wear cut-off jeans and pool net logos on their helmets!

[pr0ner]

How about we laser in on this:

Would I have been happy if the NFL caved in on that policy for any other reason? No.

How many dui's do NFL players get?
Does the NFL have MADD logos and do the announcers talk about the dangers of drinking and driving?
How many wife beaters?
Does the NFL put the names of the victims on their helmets?
Where is the line? What makes one cause more important than any other?
It's them trying to be politically correct and getting behind a cause that doesnt directly make them confront their own league wide issues.

Did you bash the NBA or MLS or the NHL for any of their own anti-racism stances in 2020, many of which mirror what the NFL is doing? Why are you so laser focused on the NFL?

[stimpy]

How about we laser in on this:

Would I have been happy if the NFL caved in on that policy for any other reason? No.

How many dui's do NFL players get?
Does the NFL have MADD logos and do the announcers talk about the dangers of drinking and driving?
How many wife beaters?
Does the NFL put the names of the victims on their helmets?
Where is the line? What makes one cause more important than any other?
It's them trying to be politically correct and getting behind an issue that doesnt directly make them confront their own league wide issues.

Exactly! There is a little publicized but critical shortage of pool boys. It's high time the players wear cut-off jeans and pool net logos on their helmets!

I'd tune in for that!!

[LawBeefaroni]

Is that from something like this:

How many Jews were killed in the Holocaust?:

1) None were killed
2) < 50,000
3) < 500,000
5) < 5,000,000
6) < 50,000,000

Study

How is that "Nationally 63%" ?

Also, if you call it the Shoah, that's seem like a bit of a gotcha too.

This is the number from the study's site. Not sure how the Guardian got to 63%.

[malchior]

This is the number from the study's site. Not sure how the Guardian got to 63%.

I'm trying to find the details but they were talking one specific age grouping (25-39). Not overall.