Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:44 pm

LordMortis wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:17 pm

Go shop somewhere else, you MAGAts.

I highly doubt they were actually shopping. Attention whoring, yes. Spending money, no.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:53 pm

Then GTFO. There are soliciting and loitering laws aren't there? I know if I sat in front of a 7-11 telling people how it is, especially while flagrantly breaking the store policy (not to mention health hazard) I'm droning on about, the police would be in that parking lot in 10 minutes and the conversation would go from warning to citation if dispersal didn't happen with no questions immediately.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:08 pm

I wish someone had the nerve to walk up to them and urinate on them.

I mean, just for video entertainment value...

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:15 pm

FWIW another revelation from the Redfield hearing today. He said that funding is being diverted from CDC to run a coronavirus "messaging" campaign that they will not have input into. Cool. I'm sure it'll be totally in line with the intended purpose of the funding -- promoting public health.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:17 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:56 pm Who do we believe?

https://twitter.com/NPRHealth/status/13 ... 0045754373

CDC Director Says COVID Vaccine Likely Won't Be Widely Available Until Next Year

Well widely available is different than out. I'm sure all Trump et al. care about is being able to say that some vaccine has been tested and now *some* people could potentially get it.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:25 pm

So Trump...went...batshit on Redfield at his press conference. Prepare to see many memes about this. It was insane even for Trump.

Edit: First catch of the day!

https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1306357906556608512

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:37 pm

LordMortis wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:53 pm Then GTFO. There are soliciting and loitering laws aren't there? I know if I sat in front of a 7-11 telling people how it is, especially while flagrantly breaking the store policy (not to mention health hazard) I'm droning on about, the police would be in that parking lot in 10 minutes and the conversation would go from warning to citation if dispersal didn't happen with no questions immediately.

Even if someone bothered call the cops, by the time they go there, if they bothered to respond, the kids and that dad/old guy would be done with their little demonstration and would just leave.

I mean they're white kids not wearing masks. No way anything happens. Hopefully they get some social media loving though. And by loving, I mean mild to moderate shitpile.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:12 pm

Im glad Doctor Trump explained it all.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:37 pm

https://twitter.com/AmerIndependent/sta ... 8680054784

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:41 pm

Also looks like Redfield is going with the Renfield option.

https://twitter.com/CDCDirector/status/ ... 6992952320

Freyland · Post by **Freyland** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:21 pm

malchior wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:37 pm https://twitter.com/AmerIndependent/sta ... 8680054784

Because those states aren't real AMERICA!

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:11 pm

Freyland wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:21 pm
malchior wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:37 pm https://twitter.com/AmerIndependent/sta ... 8680054784
Because those states aren't real AMERICA!

I think the message is, "if you take the blue states out..."

Take them out like Thomas Becket.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:17 pm

malchior wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:37 pm Praising his own virus response as deaths near 200,000, Trump says, "if you take the blue states out, we're at a level I don't think anybody in the world would be at."

Well, that should remove any doubt as to how and why aid was distributed (or not) back in March and April. Seriously - Fuck Trump.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:31 pm

So, sunk cost fallacy and post hoc reasoning?

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:32 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:11 pm I think the message is, "if you take the blue states out..."

Take them out like Thomas Becket.

Yup. And the message is clearly "As a Republican president, I do not help Blue state Americans."

I wish he would just say it.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:43 pm

malchior wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:37 pm https://twitter.com/AmerIndependent/sta ... 8680054784

Yeah, we should definitely discount the places where most of the people live when gauging the effectiveness of our response to a public health crisis.

Truly a stable genius.

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:19 am

i think any sort of ethical analysis might conclude that a president that proclaims they don't care about a large segment of the population for [some_shallow_reason] might indicate they actually don't care about _any_ of the population in the first place. at all. that would require one to be capable of ethical analysis and not possess a mindset that can only function in binary, however

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:38 am

You're on a trolley, going 50mph down the tracks. Up ahead you see 5 people that you don't know stuck and unable to get out of the way. You can switch tracks, but on the other one you see someone you do know, who is also stuck. Do you switch tracks or do you stay the course?

Trump: Is there a way to go faster on this track? When was the last time that other person said they loved me?

In other news, Maine (my home state) is in the news for being awesome. The CDC has been able to clearly track the transmission of COVID-19 from a wedding that violated state mandates during the summer to over 175 cases and 7 deaths. I hope the people who attended all feel like absolute garbage and spend the rest of their lives knowing they're directly responsible for these deaths. I want them to know who they killed.

As a state, we've done pretty well and still have fewer than 5,000 cases. Almost everyone out there is wearing a mask, but we've got clumps of idiots here and there.

I swear, if anyone I knew or loved ever died from this disease I'd just be out there sucker-punching every asshole without a mask that I saw.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:56 am

NCers seem to be pretty good about wearing masks, but I occasionally see the dude bro whose wife and children are wearing masks, but he's walking through the store, no mask, with his chest puffed out. It's those guys I just want to punch in the face. Your dick's not going to shrink from wearing a mask tough guy, you can dispense with the charade.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:21 am

There aren't enough facepalm/head-banging-into-the-wall emojis to cover how angry this story makes me.

https://twitter.com/CheriJacobus/status ... 60800?s=20

Spoiler:

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:33 am

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:21 am There aren't enough facepalm/head-banging-into-the-wall emojis to cover how angry this story makes me.

https://twitter.com/CheriJacobus/status ... 60800?s=20

Spoiler:
REVEALED: USPS had a plan to send 5 facemasks to every home in America – but the White House killed it -

"The service specifically identified Orleans and Jefferson parishes in Louisiana as the first areas to receive face coverings, with deliveries shortly thereafter to King County, Wash.; Wayne County, Mich.; and New York, according to the newly unearthed document, which is labeled a draft.”

"Take them out."

I bet the group providing the masks weren't making a profit for cronies. This was back when $0.05 masks were selling for $5 and there were some super shady supply diversions.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:37 am

Paingod wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:38 am I swear, if anyone I knew or loved ever died from this disease I'd just be out there sucker-punching every asshole without a mask that I saw.

Trust me, resisting the impulse has become a daily struggle.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:01 pm

At what point does it become a matter of self defense?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:04 pm

Paingod wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:01 pmAt what point does it become a matter of self defense?

The Supreme Court already decided that in 1905. I'm actually kinda surprised it hasn't been pressed. Oh no, wait - it hasn't. Because freedom.

Upon the principle of self-defense, of paramount necessity, a community has the right to protect itself against an epidemic of disease which threatens the safety of its members.

We don't need to individually punch people. The state can press the issue. No mask? No vaccine? No contact tracing compliance? Please do enjoy these quarantine quarters at the following location until we can verify you're no longer a threat to the community.

I'd love to Mecha-Shiva with Mr. Fed and get nutty.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:26 pm

Article published on Medium by a respected source (i.e. not a rando with a background in package engineering) related to the most likely way you'll get infected with COVID-19:

Six months later, we’ve learned a lot about how SARS-CoV-2 spreads, and it turns out most of VanWingen’s tips are largely unnecessary and some are flat-out dangerous (you should never bleach your food, but hopefully you already knew that). Instead of obsessing over objects and surfaces, scientists now say the biggest infection risk comes from inhaling what someone else is exhaling, whether it’s a tiny aerosol or a larger droplet. And while a virus traveling through the air sounds terrifying, the good news is there is a safe, cheap, and effective way to stop the spread: wearing a mask. Here are the three primary pathways of transmission, and what experts know about them six months in.

...

Armed with this knowledge, think about how you can make fall and winter safer, both physically and mentally. Instead of buying another can of Lysol, maybe invest in an air purifier, more comfortable two-ply cloth masks, or even an outdoor fire pit or space heater. Be prepared to meet friends outside in colder temperatures or insist upon masks, even in your home. We’ve still got a long way to go before we can declare victory over the novel coronavirus, but at least we know more now than we did six months ago. And you don’t have to sanitize your apples anymore.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:47 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:04 pm I'd love to Mecha-Shiva with Mr. Fed and get nutty.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:52 pm

Glad someone got it.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:55 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:26 pm Article published on Medium by a respected source (i.e. not a rando with a background in package engineering) related to the most likely way you'll get infected with COVID-19:

Thanks for this.

“If you start out with a realistic amount, and a realistic amount would be between 10 and 100 virus particles, because that’s what a droplet of a cough or sneeze is likely to have, then your virus is gone in a day,” Goldman says. “Now, I’m not saying that you can’t get it, that it’s impossible to get it from surfaces, but a very specific set of events have to occur for that to happen.”
Regardless, it’s critical that people keep washing their hands — although that’s something we should all be doing for normal hygiene anyway — but, Goldman says, you don’t have to do anything excessive, like disinfecting your groceries.

This, in particular, is helpful. We've largely been quarantining items coming into the house for... Let's call it ' more than 24 hours,' so knowing that we can reduce that safely is reassuring.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:05 pm

My random Covid-19 pet peeve for the day was at the supermarket checkout line. Finished paying and was putting the last of my bagged groceries in the cart when the woman behind me came forward to put her card in the card reader. I muttered what the fuck, especially since her groceries were just getting started on the belt and it's not a foot race to get that card inserted when your groceries are being scanned. And along with all the signs talking about social distancing there's no real excuse. Really wanted to turn around and yell "Back the fuck off!"

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:25 pm

$iljanus wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:05 pm My random Covid-19 pet peeve for the day was at the supermarket checkout line. Finished paying and was putting the last of my bagged groceries in the cart when the woman behind me came forward to put her card in the card reader. I muttered what the fuck, especially since her groceries were just getting started on the belt and it's not a foot race to get that card inserted when your groceries are being scanned. And along with all the signs talking about social distancing there's no real excuse. Really wanted to turn around and yell "Back the fuck off!"

You guys don't use paypass?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:33 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:55 pm Thanks for this.

Glad it's helpful. You can post it on social media and have it deleted too.

This, in particular, is helpful. We've largely been quarantining items coming into the house for... Let's call it ' more than 24 hours,' so knowing that we can reduce that safely is reassuring.

My patron saint of (food) transmission has been saying since day one "it depends..." (which in fairness is his signature phrase). What I think is going to be difficult is trying to get this message out and have it accepted. Resistance is high, particularly when people don't understand or consider our recommendations are coming from science and this is all evolving. The other issue (in my experience) is that it's pretty easy to focus on the physical - putting groceries or Amazon packages into "quarantine" for 3+ days thinking that will do something is easier to adopt because you can make a tangible decision ("Put that box in the garage for 3 days. Do not touch"). It's much harder to think about and process invisible viral particles coming out of someone's face and floating into your eyes, nose or mouth while you're in close contact. I can't see the virus, floating around so it's not real! I'm a clean person, so I'm not shedding virus particles everywhere!

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:54 pm

Thanks for the piece Smoove_B. It at least confirms my approach "to life" lately. The main problem I face personally is the cult of conformity around what is safe and not safe based on ... incomplete data. When I go to the store I wave off the guy who wants to wipe off my cart. Why? He is exposed to many people and I'm in more danger of being in proximity to him than some theoretical surface contact on the cart. However, that more than once earned me the very disapproving looks from the people who thought I was just shy of anti-masker.

In reality, my goal is to race through the store and get the fuck out. The radioactivity comparison is apt in my mind. Level of Exposure x Time. If I'm in a space I don't control, I minimize contact with people, minimize time over target so to speak, and make sure to take reasonable precautions to avoid introducing the virus to where it is most dangerous -- eyes/nose/lungs. Everything beyond that is something I've started to not care about except in the sense that other diseases still exist.

Edit: To get into a very real example, I was at the store the other day and an old friend of my wife was right in line behind me. I recognized her and her boyfriend, but they didn't recognize me. I was wearing a mask and a baseball cap. I ignored the hell out of them because I didn't want to have a conversation. Not to avoid the conversation socially. Just physiologically. Is that shitty? Sure but they both work retail. I hate to say it but I'll say hi to them after this is done.

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:54 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:21 am There aren't enough facepalm/head-banging-into-the-wall emojis to cover how angry this story makes me.

https://twitter.com/CheriJacobus/status ... 60800?s=20

Spoiler:
REVEALED: USPS had a plan to send 5 facemasks to every home in America – but the White House killed it -

my county (King) would have been one of the first recipients. I COULD HAVE REALLY USED THOSE, THEN

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:01 pm

The radioactivity comparison is apt in my mind. Level of Exposure x Time.

That's what's so frustrating about these school districts that are so focused on showcasing their cleaning protocols front and center as how they're stopping the virus from spreading. Not for anything, but they should be wiping down and sanitizing surfaces already and whatever they were doing prior to March is likely appropriate now.

I've been avoiding close contact indoor spaces now for 6 months; it sucks. I'm also not going to hang out with random people in open areas and no masks (like outdoor dining or drinking) for the same reason.

NJ rate of transmission has been (slightly) over 1.0 for over two weeks now and after holding steady for a few days, it's ticking up. We're about to find out (collectively) the fruits of Labor Day weekend, plus all the businesses that were given the green light to open indoor activities. I haven't seen widespread reports of mask issues, but I also know that contact tracing in NJ isn't going well. If the rates continue to tick up and cases aren't cooperating...

Always. Be. Preparing.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:04 pm

Our county had a plan for schools. The put out a note Monday that the council had voted to ignore it and despite a COVID rating of High, they were maintaining 2 days/week in person (should have gone down to 1 or back to full online). So that's fun.

I also want to thank you for the article. It was a nice summary of where the current understanding is.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:14 pm

I'm supposed to go to a meeting after work. I would have preferred a video call but everyone wanted to meet in person. So we decided on a bar with outdoor seating. It's a beautiful, sunny fall day, will be around 65 degrees by meeting time. A invitee messaged that we should move to indoor seating "due to the cold".

I just replied, "Wear a jacket or send me the Zoom info." Felt like a bait and switch.

We will not make it through the winter.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:31 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:33 pmGlad it's helpful. You can post it on social media and have it deleted too.

I feel like there's a story here that I missed.

My patron saint of (food) transmission has been saying since day one "it depends..." (which in fairness is his signature phrase). What I think is going to be difficult is trying to get this message out and have it accepted. Resistance is high, particularly when people don't understand or consider our recommendations are coming from science and this is all evolving. The other issue (in my experience) is that it's pretty easy to focus on the physical - putting groceries or Amazon packages into "quarantine" for 3+ days thinking that will do something is easier to adopt because you can make a tangible decision ("Put that box in the garage for 3 days. Do not touch"). It's much harder to think about and process invisible viral particles coming out of someone's face and floating into your eyes, nose or mouth while you're in close contact. I can't see the virus, floating around so it's not real! I'm a clean person, so I'm not shedding virus particles everywhere!

I totally get it, but personally the quarantine-physical-stuff part is the much harder side for me. I am perfectly OK wearing my mask, staying the hell away from all of the people, not going indoors away from home except where absolutely necessary, making my travel trips campouts, etc. But putting all our near-daily arriving packages into quarantine for a week, plus quarantining or wiping down all the groceries, tracking it all, etc? FML.

Drastically reducing that side of things is a great relief for me. I had already seen that we were likely going way overboard in this area, but it's nice to see further confirmation.

stessier wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:04 pm Our county had a plan for schools. The put out a note Monday that the council had voted to ignore it and despite a COVID rating of High, they were maintaining 2 days/week in person (should have gone down to 1 or back to full online). So that's fun.

I also want to thank you for the article. It was a nice summary of where the current understanding is.

Hey, they could be like our district and have decided that after a few weeks of 2 days/week in person, it's time to bring everybody back all the time after Fall break next month. Yay? Our numbers are pretty good, but this seems drastically premature to me. 6 feet of distance in the school will be impossible. Further, those who initially opted for the hybrid approach rather than e-learning are now tied to that choice even though they were bait-and-switched: they can no longer opt out into full e-learning.

Fun times we live in.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:41 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:31 pm I feel like there's a story here that I missed.

I have a secret identify on social media (because I value privacy and like to pretend I'm superhero) that I use to work as a force of goodness, particularly now during the pandemic. When I see something I can share broadly or can offer assistance by pointing someone in need of service in the right direction, I will. However, the article I shared here was labeled "political" and deleted, because of course it was.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:07 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:31 pm
stessier wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:04 pm Our county had a plan for schools. The put out a note Monday that the council had voted to ignore it and despite a COVID rating of High, they were maintaining 2 days/week in person (should have gone down to 1 or back to full online). So that's fun.

I also want to thank you for the article. It was a nice summary of where the current understanding is.
Hey, they could be like our district and have decided that after a few weeks of 2 days/week in person, it's time to bring everybody back all the time after Fall break next month. Yay? Our numbers are pretty good, but this seems drastically premature to me. 6 feet of distance in the school will be impossible. Further, those who initially opted for the hybrid approach rather than e-learning are now tied to that choice even though they were bait-and-switched: they can no longer opt out into full e-learning.

Fun times we live in.

We have two kids - one is in the county schools and we chose full virtual for her. The other is in a charter school and based on their plan, my wife convinced me to go hybrid. Thus far, the spread has kept them in full virtual. Well, the Board of Directors met this week and noted that other schools had been in session for 2 days/week with no increase in spread (although the county remains categorized as high). They said they are sticking to the plan for now, but will revisit in 2 weeks. Like you, we're stuck - no option to now opt in to full virtual. If they break their protocol, I will not be pleased. (I'm not really pleased even if they stick to it and it allows in person classes, but at least I had reasoned consent in making that choice.)

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:17 pm

We actually did go full virtual through the first semester, but had we gone hybrid I'd be livid. We'll see how it goes.