Trump vs. Biden - the Final Showdown

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:32 pm

malchior wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:50 pmYes. Speaking to the article - while I laud Biden's peacemaking motive there is likely no governing coalition with both AOC and John Kasich in it.

Sure there is. AOC isn't the communist the GOP makes her out to be, and Kasich isn't a goose-stepping Nazi. There's plenty of common ground to work with.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:36 pm

On a side note, I watched AOC and Ilhan Omar play Among Us for an hour on Twitch last night.

I have no interest in that game, but it was neat to see them doing "normal people" things.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:42 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:36 pm On a side note, I watched AOC and Ilhan Omar play Among Us for an hour on Twitch last night.

I have no interest in that game, but it was neat to see them doing "normal people" things.

That's some brilliant marketing right there. Damn the Repugnicans and full speed ahead.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:46 pm

Jaymann wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:42 pm
Skinypupy wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:36 pm On a side note, I watched AOC and Ilhan Omar play Among Us for an hour on Twitch last night.

I have no interest in that game, but it was neat to see them doing "normal people" things.
That's some brilliant marketing right there. Damn the Repugnicans and full speed ahead.

AOC also did an Animal Crossing island tour earlier this year.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:56 pm

malchior wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:50 pm
naednek wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:45 pm
Defiant wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:41 pm Maybe this should be put in a thread entitled "Joe Biden's cabinet picks", but I don't want to jinx it.

Biden eyes GOP candidates for Cabinet slots

Among the names being floated for possible Biden Cabinet posts are Meg Whitman, the CEO of Quibi and former CEO of eBay, and former Ohio Gov. John Kasich, both of whom spoke at August’s Democratic National Convention. Massachusetts GOP Gov. Charlie Baker and former Sen. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) have also been mentioned, as has former Rep. Charlie Dent (R-Penn.), who resigned from Congress in 2018 and became a lobbyist.

Whitman would be a disaster
Yes. Speaking to the article - while I laud Biden's peacemaking motive there is likely no governing coalition with both AOC and John Kasich in it. However, it potentially could work since there will be so many distractions. They are going to be picking up the pieces of Trump's malpractice, dealing with a pandemic, economic issues, figuring out how to salvage the international situation, etc. It'll be quite a feat if he pulls it off.

While I do think Biden means some of this, I also expect some of it is also signaling to Republicans considering voting for Biden. Rumors of possible Republican cabinet members can only help him with the few still wavering. Hard to paint him as the big bad socialist if he is considering Republican cabinet members.

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:59 pm

Grifman wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:56 pmHard to paint him as the big bad socialist if he is considering Republican cabinet members.

More importantly, it signals a return to previous norms. Past Presidents, from both parties, have always included at least one member of the opposite party in the Cabinet - Obama had several Republicans, for instance. (for the last 40 years ago, at least....I haven't researched back farther than that.) Trump broke that tradition like he has so many others. Biden is very deliberately looking to re-establish the practice.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:05 pm

naednek wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:45 pm
Defiant wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:41 pm Maybe this should be put in a thread entitled "Joe Biden's cabinet picks", but I don't want to jinx it.

Biden eyes GOP candidates for Cabinet slots

Among the names being floated for possible Biden Cabinet posts are Meg Whitman, the CEO of Quibi and former CEO of eBay, and former Ohio Gov. John Kasich, both of whom spoke at August’s Democratic National Convention. Massachusetts GOP Gov. Charlie Baker and former Sen. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) have also been mentioned, as has former Rep. Charlie Dent (R-Penn.), who resigned from Congress in 2018 and became a lobbyist.

Whitman would be a disaster

I don't like Whitman but she would be more like like a kitchen fire after a nuclear conflagration. Our tolerance for bad cabinet appointments and disasters is a hell of a lot higher than it was 4 years ago.

Remember when Rumsfeld and Tamiflu seemed problematic?

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:08 pm

Little Raven wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:59 pm
Grifman wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:56 pmHard to paint him as the big bad socialist if he is considering Republican cabinet members.
More importantly, it signals a return to previous norms. Past Presidents, from both parties, have always included at least one member of the opposite party in the Cabinet - Obama had several Republicans, for instance. (for the last 40 years ago, at least....I haven't researched back farther than that.) Trump broke that tradition like he has so many others. Biden is very deliberately looking to re-establish the practice.

From what I can tell, it looks like Ford is the last one with no cabinet member of the opposite party at all during his entire term, but it's worth nothing that some of them were just cabinet members for a short time, or eventually switched to the party of the President.

Prior to FDR, it appears to have been much rarer to have cabinet members from the other party, although Lincoln and Johnson are pretty big exceptions.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:15 pm

Hasn't Trump left some cabinet positions open? For four years.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:16 pm

Little Raven wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:32 pm
malchior wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:50 pmYes. Speaking to the article - while I laud Biden's peacemaking motive there is likely no governing coalition with both AOC and John Kasich in it.
Sure there is. AOC isn't the communist the GOP makes her out to be, and Kasich isn't a goose-stepping Nazi. There's plenty of common ground to work with.

Sure they'll find common ground but maintaining a governing coalition is a lot more complicated than that. Like El Guapo said, it depends on who in what roll. Kasich as Chief of Staff for instance would blow up the left side of the coalition.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:20 pm

Jaymann wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:15 pm Hasn't Trump left some cabinet positions open? For four years.

Sort of - Trump has abused the Vacancy Act to the extent some judges have said that at least one cabinet member was appointed illegally. For instance, Chad Wolf at DHS. It is sort of a legal limbo that means we aren't sure whether anything he is ordering is even legal.

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:30 pm

malchior wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:16 pmLike El Guapo said, it depends on who in what roll. Kasich as Chief of Staff for instance would blow up the left side of the coalition.

Sure, but that would be highly unexpected. Having a Republican or two in the cabinet would signal a return to previous norms - having a Republican as the Chief of Staff would signal a total party realignment. I don't think we're quite there yet. It's much more likely that we'll see the sort of thing that Defiant found in the past - at most, few appointments of Republicans in relatively minor positions, many of which will probably be relatively short-lived. It's largely a symbolic gesture, but symbols are important - now more than ever.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:38 pm

What I did see (and this was just glancing so not a deep dive), was that Democrats usually got Sec of Labor or Education, while Republicans tended to get military-oriented positions...

Which stands to reason. Those that are most qualified for those positions are much more likely to be Democrat or Republican respectively, so if you're trying to pick someone very good without caring about party, you would be likely to get those kinds of picks.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:59 pm

Little Raven wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:32 pm
malchior wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:50 pmYes. Speaking to the article - while I laud Biden's peacemaking motive there is likely no governing coalition with both AOC and John Kasich in it.
Sure there is. AOC isn't the communist the GOP makes her out to be, and Kasich isn't a goose-stepping Nazi. There's plenty of common ground to work with.

I was prepared to hold my nose and unhappily vote for Kasich in 2016. I think watching the party at large react to him 2015/2016 was no small contributor to me sliding in to partisanism. If he was the example of not GOP enough, then I was left with nothing because he was actually too much the nice guy who was still going to work for the far right religion and billionaire club for me but he was willing to work enough for what was right that I was willing to work with him.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:24 pm

Defiant wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:38 pm What I did see (and this was just glancing so not a deep dive), was that Democrats usually got Sec of Labor or Education, while Republicans tended to get military-oriented positions...

Which stands to reason. Those that are most qualified for those positions are much more likely to be Democrat or Republican respectively, so if you're trying to pick someone very good without caring about party, you would be likely to get those kinds of picks.

Though I'd be more concerned if Biden appointed a Republican as Secretary of Defense than a lot of other posts. Fits into an image of Democrats as "weak on defense / security" which is particularly unfounded now, and which Democrats need to push back on fairly stridently.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:36 pm

I'm trying to figure out a cabinet position I'd like to see go to a Republican in a Biden cabinet. It's actually tough. So many agencies need repair.

My shortlist:
Veteran Affairs
HHS
CIA <- Keep Haspel

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:11 pm

Trump had a book given to Leslie Stahl with everything he had done regarding improving health care. The pages were blank:

https://twitter.com/JeffYoung/status/13 ... 08/photo/1

At least he didn't lie

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:25 pm

Well, no one called him out on the table full of folders filled with blank papers, so why not try it again? Even still, absolutely amazing. I hope it's in a museum, one dedicated to documenting the entirety of his disgraceful tenure as our 45th President.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:31 pm

Phew, I almost changed my vote because I thought he had a big thick book full of some kind of secret healthcare plan.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:34 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:25 pm I hope it's in a museum, one dedicated to documenting the entirety of his disgraceful tenure as our 45th President.

Centerpiece for his presidential library.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:55 pm

I assume that the 60 Minutes show on Sunday is going to have the interview and whatever else? I haven't watched 60 Minutes in many years, but I'm really going to have to tune in for that.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:58 pm

I think they're also interviewing Biden, Harris, and Pence for this Sunday's show.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:59 pm

https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/13 ... 7448185857

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:03 pm

coopasonic wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:34 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:25 pm I hope it's in a museum, one dedicated to documenting the entirety of his disgraceful tenure as our 45th President.
Centerpiece for his presidential library.

Make it the guestbook.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:03 pm

More weak tea from Mitt "Spineless" Romney.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:04 pm

Grifman wrote:Trump had a book given to Leslie Stahl with everything he had done regarding improving health care. The pages were blank:

https://twitter.com/JeffYoung/status/13 ... 08/photo/1

At least he didn't lie

Maybe it's in invisible ink? What a sad little man

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:49 pm

Completely parallel universes exist for these people.

https://twitter.com/ChanelRion/status/1 ... 8481400833

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:52 am

Trump's revving up that campaign machine:

In one of his most bizarre and incoherent performances to date, president Donald Trump on Tuesday night told a Pennsylvania rally "nobody wants me" before cutting the event short and dancing off the stage to YMCA.

It's not as amazingly insane as described but it's still a puzzler.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:40 am

malchior wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:49 pm Completely parallel universes exist for these people.

https://twitter.com/ChanelRion/status/1 ... 8481400833

The icing on the douchey cake is the reference to a minor being a U.S. citizen. Presumably if the minor were a foreign national being exploited it wouldn't be a big deal.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:42 am

El Guapo wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:40 am
malchior wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:49 pm Completely parallel universes exist for these people.

https://twitter.com/ChanelRion/status/1 ... 8481400833
The icing on the douchey cake is the reference to a minor being a U.S. citizen. Presumably if the minor were a foreign national being exploited it wouldn't be a big deal.

Maybe because other jurisdictions/cultures don't have the same rules we do? I'm guessing this is put up to counter the Guliani thing and they're planting the idea that a 15-YO from some Slavic nation really isn't a big deal.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:45 am

El Guapo wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:40 amThe icing on the douchey cake is the reference to a minor being a U.S. citizen. Presumably if the minor were a foreign national being exploited it wouldn't be a big deal.

If it's in the US they have a chance to hunt them down and plaster their face and family all over the internet.

It's probably going to turn out to be a niece or nephew at a pool party that was in a bathing suit and "captured on camera for nefarious purposes", though.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:53 am

Haven't Giuliani and the FBI been in possession of these materials (whatever their source) since mid-to-late 2019?

If there were anything genuinely concerning in them, it seems like it would have come out before, you know, the last two weeks before the election.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:54 am

Someone commented this morning that the Hunter Biden hard drive is like the GOP’s briefcase In Pulp Fiction.

The contents can be literally anything you can imagine them and to be, are always something extremely valuable, but you’ll never see them.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:00 am

El Guapo wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:40 amThe icing on the douchey cake is the reference to a minor being a U.S. citizen. Presumably if the minor were a foreign national being exploited it wouldn't be a big deal.

I almost made a comment about it because it's so douchey as you put it. What'd the kid do? Hold up their passport. They yelled on the video that you can't do this to a 'fellow American citizen'? It's so laughably stupid.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:11 am

El Guapo wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:40 am The icing on the douchey cake is the reference to a minor being a U.S. citizen. Presumably if the minor were a foreign national being exploited it wouldn't be a big deal.

They mean White.

It's been pointed out that a crucial part of the QAnon pedophilia panic is that the victims are always imagined as little white kids. (After all, these same MAGAs don't give a thought for the brown kids actually being mentally and physically abused in Trump's cages.)

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:57 am

One thing has been consistently bugging me. Since when did candidates' family become fair game?

There was a time when attacking a presidential candidate's family member was extremely taboo. When Cheney debated John Edwards, there was a mini-scandal just because John mentioned Cheney's gay daughter.

Now we not only have Trump attacking Biden's son for this made up corruption scam, but also because he was a drug addict. It just goes to show how far off the cliff we've gone in 4 years.

And while some may argue that Ivanka and co have been the subject of accusations, they put themselves into the administration and gave up the protection of being private citizens. And even then, when we have plenty of evidence that they themselves are in violation of the law, Biden has refrained from attacking them.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:00 am

YellowKing wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:57 am One thing has been consistently bugging me. Since when did candidates' family become fair game?

When the GOP fully embraced winning at all costs. Nothing else matters except to win. It's not about policy or norms anymore; it's winner takes all.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:10 am

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:00 am
YellowKing wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:57 am One thing has been consistently bugging me. Since when did candidates' family become fair game?
When the GOP fully embraced winning at all costs. Nothing else matters except to win. It's not about policy or norms anymore; it's winner takes all.

I think something happened when Trump went after Ted Cruz's wife and Ted eventually came crawling back. All's fair in love, war, and now politics.

But wasn't Bill Clinton's brother brought up a few times on the campaign trail? Jimmy Carter's brother too? Kids, even adult ones, have historically been left alone though.

[Edit] Palin's kids? Was that before or after the election?[/edit]

I saw a meme thing about a bunch of Biden's relatives having misdemeanor arrests or getting DUIs. If true, all that tells me is that he doesn't throw his weight around to get family members out of trouble. *Shrug*

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:18 am

YellowKing wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:57 am One thing has been consistently bugging me. Since when did candidates' family become fair game?

If there were any validity to something like the Hunter Biden hard drive, it would certainly be fair game because it would be potentially compromising material that could be used to exert influence against Joe if he wins. It's different than the Cheney incident because it's not like she was in the closet so that her sexuality could have been used to compromise Cheney.

The extra layer of lunacy, of course, comes from the idea that Biden is potentially compromised as compared to Trump.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:32 am

YellowKing wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:57 am One thing has been consistently bugging me.