Trump vs. Biden - the Final Showdown

[Octavious]

It will take about 10 minutes before Fox News has a headline that says Joe wants to get rid of oil. So dumb of him..

[YellowKing]

If we're in a position where a Biden statement in a debate about environmental policy, taken out of context, loses him the race against someone like Trump, then this country deserves to go up in flames.

[malchior]

I wouldn't worry too much about this oil stuff. Anyone working or adjacent to those industries have seen two major oil price crashes and widespread job losses in the industry over the last 20 years. Most of them are already planning for a green future on their own since Saudi Arabia crashed the oil market this year. Shell is running ReShape and announced carbon neutral by 2035. BP announced they are halting all exploration efforts.

[malchior]

Everyone's pointing out that Strassel is an opinion-page columnist, not an actual reporter.

Strassel is just plain awful. She's been a Trump apologist from the get go, with no attempt at even trying to appear even handed or unbiased in any way. I love the WSJ and have considered re-upping my subscription but I won't due to their editorial support of Trump under Murdoch. The old WSJ would have never bowed the knee to Trump and it is very sad.

Don't cancel just yet. It's absurd they are in this spot but still this is the right call from the other side of the firewall in the newsroom. Good on them to push back on it.

https://twitter.com/NoahShachtman/statu ... 8020834306

[Zaxxon]

It will take about 10 minutes before Fox News has a headline that says Joe wants to get rid of oil. So dumb of him..

I mean, while we're on the topic, it's worth mentioning that we do in fact want and need to get rid of oil for most uses. Further, it's already a done deal on economics alone in the next decade or so.

But as others mentioned, our country's level of discourse is a farce and so this will be a 'gaffe.'

[Grifman]

Everyone's pointing out that Strassel is an opinion-page columnist, not an actual reporter.

Strassel is just plain awful. She's been a Trump apologist from the get go, with no attempt at even trying to appear even handed or unbiased in any way. I love the WSJ and have considered re-upping my subscription but I won't due to their editorial support of Trump under Murdoch. The old WSJ would have never bowed the knee to Trump and it is very sad.

Don't cancel just yet. It's absurd they are in this spot but still this is the right call from the other side of the firewall in the newsroom. Good on them to push back on it.

https://twitter.com/NoahShachtman/statu ... 8020834306

I was just going to post that - Strassel got destroyed by her own paper:

https://twitter.com/natemcdermott/statu ... 16064?s=20

That said, I know the new side of the WSJ does good work but I don't want to reward the opinion side.

[Zaxxon]

Currently in line to vote. This is the 2nd day that early voting has been open at this location, but it was open at another nearby location for the last two weeks. Nevertheless, it’s a pretty long line, especially for the middle of a Tuesday afternoon. I’ guessing it’ll take about an hour to get vote. But, all in all, seems pretty well organized and everyone is wearing a mask, so I can’t complain too much. And it’s encouraging to see so many people voting.

This morning we crossed over 25% of the total 2016 vote count already cast in this election. Foregone conclusion that 2020's early voting count will set a new record by a wide margin. It'll be interesting to see the total including election day and how that total compares to 2016.

< 2 days later, and we're now at 33.2% of total 2016's vote count.

TX is at 65.5%! (8 days of early voting to go)

Yeah, TX is nuts.

Could the Democrat dream of a blue TX be coming true? If turn out is much higher than 2016 does that mean minorities, urban and suburban voters are turning out enough to offset small town, rural Trump Texas?

Polling generally points towards Texas being a toss-up (538 currently gives Biden a 48.4% chance of winning). I don't know that turnout numbers really impact that much. Odds are (in the absence of shenanigans) that Trump will eke out a narrow win in TX, but Biden has a real shot there.

Agree with Guap's assessment of TX, but it's still fun to track. Overall the country's up to 36.5% of 2016 at this point, with TX now at 71.1%.

Interestingly, while mail ballots have heavily favored Dems as expected, in-person ballots for states that disclose party registration are also slightly favoring Dems so far. (Included states: CO, FL, KS, KY, LA, MD, NC, NM, NV, SD, count 4.1M votes so far.)

[hepcat]

Every time Biden chuckled at one of Trump's outlandish lies, it looked like Trump was about to

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Polling generally points towards Texas being a toss-up (538 currently gives Biden a 48.4% chance of winning). I don't know that turnout numbers really impact that much. Odds are (in the absence of shenanigans) that Trump will eke out a narrow win in TX, but Biden has a real shot there.

And even if Trump ends up winning Texas, the closeness of the race has forced Trump to spend money in Texas. Biden has spent money there as well, but the Trump campaign is much more strapped for cash than the Biden campaign.

[Paingod]

Watching highlights, knowing he can't talk, Biden should have had a sign he could hold up with a tired look on his face that simply had "BS" written on it.

[El Guapo]

Polling generally points towards Texas being a toss-up (538 currently gives Biden a 48.4% chance of winning). I don't know that turnout numbers really impact that much. Odds are (in the absence of shenanigans) that Trump will eke out a narrow win in TX, but Biden has a real shot there.

And even if Trump ends up winning Texas, the closeness of the race has forced Trump to spend money in Texas. Biden has spent money there as well, but the Trump campaign is much more strapped for cash than the Biden campaign.

Ultimately the only significance of Texas is that if Biden wins TX, it will help hammer home the narrative that this was a blowout, which would probably boost efforts to move the GOP away from Trumpism. But in terms of the electoral outcome, Biden's easiest route is to reclaim the upper midwest states (MI, WI, PA). If that goes wrong, his viable backup plan is FL, NC, + AZ. Hard to imagine a scenario where Biden wins TX but not FL + AZ.

[The Meal]

Yep, TX for Biden would be running up the score.

[Defiant]

Bernie Sanders makes a play for Biden Labor secretary

Personally, I'd rather have people like Warren (with her tons of thought out plans) than someone like Sanders (IMO, he's more style and less substance than Warren). But another issue is, does Sanders have the discipline to be in the cabinet? As the public faces of the administration, cabinet members aren't suppose to criticize the administration, and if there's one thing Sanders does a lot of is criticize.

[El Guapo]

Bernie Sanders makes a play for Biden Labor secretary

Personally, I'd rather have people like Warren (with her tons of thought out plans) than someone like Sanders (IMO, he's more style and less substance than Warren). But another issue is, does Sanders have the discipline to be in the cabinet? As the public faces of the administration, cabinet members aren't suppose to criticize the administration, and if there's one thing Sanders does a lot of is criticize.

Vermont having a Republican governor is pretty fatal to Sanders getting a cabinet role. Per the article VT's Republican governor would get to appoint a replacement; even though a special election would be required within six months, that's an enormous amount of time when the Democrats couldn't count on holding Congress in 2023.

[Isgrimnur]

Yep, TX for Biden would be running up the score.

[Alefroth]

If Biden won Texas, I'm guessing that would give Hegar good odds of winning as well.

[El Guapo]

If Biden won Texas, I'm guessing that would give Hegar good odds of winning as well.

FWIW Hegar seems to be several points behind Biden. Entirely plausible for Biden to eke out a narrow win in TX while Hegar loses.

[coopasonic]

If Biden won Texas, I'm guessing that would give Hegar good odds of winning as well.

FWIW Hegar seems to be several points behind Biden. Entirely plausible for Biden to eke out a narrow win in TX while Hegar loses.

Call it the Trump effect. TX doesn't have straight ticket voting this year so this is even more plausible.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Very anecdotal, but my brother's FIL in Texas is voting for Biden - the first time he's voted for a Democrat in his life. And his wife's sister, who also lives in Texas and is very traditionally Republican, also didn't' vote for Trump (but couldn't pull the lever for Biden). Unfortunately my brother and his wife couldn't get through to his MiL who is the definition of a one-issue voter (abortion, of course). She hates Trump but still voted for him. Still, 2/3 ain't bad!

[Holman]

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/131 ... 49792?s=20

Follow the link.

[stessier]

There is a serious problem with their link.

Spoiler:

Clicking Learn More a second time next to Biden's Plan loads nothing.

[Zaxxon]

There is a serious problem with their link.

Spoiler:

Clicking Learn More a second time next to Biden's Plan loads nothing.

Works for me.

[LawBeefaroni]

There is a serious problem with their link.

Spoiler:

Clicking Learn More a second time next to Biden's Plan loads nothing.

Spoiler:

Goes here for me: https://joebiden.com/covid19/

[stessier]

There is a serious problem with their link.

Spoiler:

Clicking Learn More a second time next to Biden's Plan loads nothing.

Spoiler:

Goes here for me: https://joebiden.com/covid19/

Your link works. The one on the page still gives me a "ERR_CONNECTION_RESET".

Glad it works for everyone else.

[Zaxxon]

From the 'scare folks into voting, maybe, I think must be the plan?' corner:

https://twitter.com/RepClayHiggins/stat ... 74817?s=20

[Isgrimnur]

Won't someone think of the Kinder eggs?!

[Carpet_pissr]

From the 'scare folks into voting, maybe, I think must be the plan?' corner:

https://twitter.com/RepClayHiggins/stat ... 74817?s=20

What happened to your freedom? NOTHING, you stupid fuck, because it was a DREAM.

[Holman]

Just FYI, "the gift of premonition" here isn't some kind of metaphor. Plenty of fundamentalists believe in "spiritual gifts," including premonition. (Speaking in tongues is another one.)

So the good congressman here believes his wife is a wizard.

[LawBeefaroni]

From the 'scare folks into voting, maybe, I think must be the plan?' corner:

https://twitter.com/RepClayHiggins/stat ... 74817?s=20

What happened to your freedom? NOTHING, you stupid fuck, because it was a DREAM.

But she has the gift of premonition!

The problem with premonition, as anyone who has watches supernatural fiction knows, is that they're not always 100% literal. She what she saw was wage garnishment.

[NickAragua]

Bernie Sanders makes a play for Biden Labor secretary

Personally, I'd rather have people like Warren (with her tons of thought out plans) than someone like Sanders (IMO, he's more style and less substance than Warren). But another issue is, does Sanders have the discipline to be in the cabinet? As the public faces of the administration, cabinet members aren't suppose to criticize the administration, and if there's one thing Sanders does a lot of is criticize.

Vermont having a Republican governor is pretty fatal to Sanders getting a cabinet role. Per the article VT's Republican governor would get to appoint a replacement; even though a special election would be required within six months, that's an enormous amount of time when the Democrats couldn't count on holding Congress in 2023.

Of course, I wouldn't really want Warren in the cabinet for the same reason. Baker might be a decent governor, but he's still got the R next to his name.

[Kraken]

Bernie Sanders makes a play for Biden Labor secretary

Personally, I'd rather have people like Warren (with her tons of thought out plans) than someone like Sanders (IMO, he's more style and less substance than Warren). But another issue is, does Sanders have the discipline to be in the cabinet? As the public faces of the administration, cabinet members aren't suppose to criticize the administration, and if there's one thing Sanders does a lot of is criticize.

Vermont having a Republican governor is pretty fatal to Sanders getting a cabinet role. Per the article VT's Republican governor would get to appoint a replacement; even though a special election would be required within six months, that's an enormous amount of time when the Democrats couldn't count on holding Congress in 2023.

Of course, I wouldn't really want Warren in the cabinet for the same reason. Baker might be a decent governor, but he's still got the R next to his name.

IDK what he would do. He likes being governor (last week he shot down the idea of taking a cabinet post in Biden's WH) and probably wants a third term. Replacing Warren with any R would be career suicide. OTOH, if he names a D, why does he even keep that R next to his name?

Warren's valuable in the Senate, and would be doubly so in the majority. IDK how much she likes the job, though. By temperament, she's more of an administrator.

If Warren does get a tap on the shoulder, our legislature will probably change the succession law to take it out of Charlie's hands.

[Holman]

Does Warren have a top aide who could be tapped, and then the two could collaborate?

[Kraken]

That question is above my pay grade.

[Grifman]

Fox News has also debunked the Bobulinski story:

Fox News has reviewed emails from Bobulinski related to the venture — and they don't show that the elder Biden had business dealings with SinoHawk Holdings, or took any payments from them or the Chinese.

However, according to separate emails obtained by Fox News, Bobulinski states there are no other members besides Hunter Biden, Jim Biden, Rob Walker, James Gillar and Anthony Bobulinski, regarding the shareholding structure, and records for all stages of company negotiations show no role for Joe Biden.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hunter ... -questions

I will also note that the emails involved are dated during May, 2017. Even if all of this was true, at that point, Biden was not Vice President, nor was he a presidential candidate. As a private citizen, he was entitled to invest in anything he wanted to. The hypocrisy of the Trumpers is that none of them objected when it was learned that Trump was seeking a deal with Russia for a Moscow Trump Towers while he was a presidential candidate and he lied about it to the public.

[Zaxxon]

This morning we crossed over 25% of the total 2016 vote count already cast in this election. Foregone conclusion that 2020's early voting count will set a new record by a wide margin. It'll be interesting to see the total including election day and how that total compares to 2016.

Yeah looks like we'll coast in around 35-40% early voting levels overall. It also means that the actual election day is incredibly important still.

I would take the over on that estimate, though your point (and Guap's, awesomely) stands.

4 days later, we've crossed past 40%. Will be interesting to see where we wind up.

[El Guapo]

Bernie Sanders makes a play for Biden Labor secretary

Personally, I'd rather have people like Warren (with her tons of thought out plans) than someone like Sanders (IMO, he's more style and less substance than Warren). But another issue is, does Sanders have the discipline to be in the cabinet? As the public faces of the administration, cabinet members aren't suppose to criticize the administration, and if there's one thing Sanders does a lot of is criticize.

Vermont having a Republican governor is pretty fatal to Sanders getting a cabinet role. Per the article VT's Republican governor would get to appoint a replacement; even though a special election would be required within six months, that's an enormous amount of time when the Democrats couldn't count on holding Congress in 2023.

Of course, I wouldn't really want Warren in the cabinet for the same reason. Baker might be a decent governor, but he's still got the R next to his name.

IDK what he would do. He likes being governor (last week he shot down the idea of taking a cabinet post in Biden's WH) and probably wants a third term. Replacing Warren with any R would be career suicide. OTOH, if he names a D, why does he even keep that R next to his name?

Warren's valuable in the Senate, and would be doubly so in the majority. IDK how much she likes the job, though. By temperament, she's more of an administrator.

If Warren does get a tap on the shoulder, our legislature will probably change the succession law to take it out of Charlie's hands.

The most sensible thing, if Biden is open to the likes of Sanders and Warren, would be for them to pick someone who matches their beliefs but who is not a senator from a state with a republican governor, and ask Biden to nominate that person.

If Biden really wants Warren, yeah the legislature could just change the replacement process to a prompt special election (even if Baker vetoed the change). As there's no way for that to blow up in faces, right? Maybe that could work in VT, but I don't know the makeup of the legislature.

[Jeff V]

Bernie has been docile these past many months, so I imagine his future role is already determined. I hope the older party relics are given less visible appointments so younger folks have a chance to shine.

[LawBeefaroni]

Bernie has been docile these past many months, so I imagine his future role is already determined. I hope the older party relics are given less visible appointments so younger folks have a chance to shine.

My wife just berated two of her cousins in Michigan who said they weren't voting because Bernie got screwed out of the nomination (again). She may have browbeaten them into voting, may not have. We're not sure.

[Jeff V]

Bernie has been docile these past many months, so I imagine his future role is already determined. I hope the older party relics are given less visible appointments so younger folks have a chance to shine.

My wife just berated two of her cousins in Michigan who said they weren't voting because Bernie got screwed out of the nomination (again). She may have browbeaten them into voting, may not have. We're not sure.

What was their specific reason for claiming that? Bernie wasn't within a whiff of the nomination this time.

[Defiant]

Bernie has been docile these past many months, so I imagine his future role is already determined. I hope the older party relics are given less visible appointments so younger folks have a chance to shine.

My wife just berated two of her cousins in Michigan who said they weren't voting because Bernie got screwed out of the nomination (again). She may have browbeaten them into voting, may not have. We're not sure.

What was their specific reason for claiming that? Bernie wasn't within a whiff of the nomination this time.

If it's like the ones I've heard from : the endorsements by politicians, the scheduling of the debates, the super delegates, the media, the DNC, the emails, no one likes Clinton, Bernie math, yada yada yada.