Election integrity and the transfer of power

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:21 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:39 pm I was just about to come in to post this. Maybe in addition to the UN observers, we need to mobilize the National Guard to help with the sorting of mail?

This is absolutely absurd. Absurd!

I remember there used to be this big superpower nation who would help nations around the world learn the wonders of democracy and help them find ways to hold fair elections. Maybe we can get that country to help?

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:48 pm

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status ... 80096?s=21

Spoiler:

So they’re putting in all these efforts to collect the ballots, but I don’t see any measures to actually deliver those ballots.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:35 pm

Little Raven wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:08 pm Here's the PDF of the ruling from the lower court.

Essentially, the Minnesota Voters Alliance are arguing that they can't vote because Minnesota law states the following:
A person whose identity is concealed by the person in a public place by means of a robe, mask, or other disguise, unless based on religious beliefs, or incidental to amusement, entertainment, protection from weather, or medical treatment, is guilty of a misdemeanor.
Which, fair enough, it does. But the governor has ordered a mask mandate for all indoor spaces. So they can't wear a mask and they can't not wear a mask, and so (they argue) they're being denied their right to vote.

However, nobody is enforcing the anti-mask law at the moment, so Federal court ruled against them, since they could not establish standing due to a lack of injury. Now they're kicking it up the chain.

Good luck with that.

Not an issue. This came up early WRT to CC. It's a "medical treatment."

Wearing a mask to stop the spread of COVID-19 falls under the "medical treatment" exception to the law.

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:38 pm

Yeah it's all stupid. I don't expect they're going to fare any better with the 9.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:17 am

Edit: Tweet deleted - Governor Wolf of PA had tweeted out another plea to hand in votes and not use the mail system.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:30 am

Tweet unavailable.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:39 pm

This doesn’t bode well. More GOP shenanigans:

https://twitter.com/mjs_dc/status/13226 ... 21184?s=21

Spoiler:

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:01 pm

Is this different from the one earlier this week? Or just extra concerning because of the judge involved?

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:05 pm

A different one since this is a federal judge. The Texas SC already refused once to stop drive-through voting, but I’m not sure why they are hearing arguments about it again.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:09 pm

If people vote using a method that is valid at the time and those votes are later invalidated, is there honestly no sort of mechanism that requires they are notified and given an option to resubmit that vote? We just shrug and toss them out?

I get “because GOP”, but that feels like it should be a bridge to far, even for them.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:14 pm

In other news, 7 million mail-in ballots are still out there in the 13 states which require them to arrive by election day.

The next couple weeks are going to be a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:16 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:09 pmI get “because GOP”, but that feels like it should be a bridge to far, even for them.

I suspect it is. I'll be very surprised if the Texas courts ultimately entertain the idea.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:26 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:09 pm I get “because GOP”, but that feels like it should be a bridge to far, even for them.

They see a complete party wipe coming. We're going to see a lot of formerly unthinkable things happen.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:45 pm

Little Raven wrote:
Skinypupy wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:09 pmI get “because GOP”, but that feels like it should be a bridge to far, even for them.
I suspect it is. I'll be very surprised if the Texas courts ultimately entertain the idea.

Based on everything I’ve read about how partisan they are, I would be surprised if the 5th Circuit of Appeals doesn’t throw out the votes.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:48 pm

In other news, police in NC pepper sprayed and arrested peaceful protestors marching to vote.

https://twitter.com/will_doran/status/1 ... 44416?s=21

Spoiler:

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:56 pm

What terrifies me is that we are fortunate (we hope) that Biden's lead is large enough to overcome these shenanigans this time. But what happens when the Democrat lead is 1 or 2 points? What happens when the race does inevitably come down to 1 or 2 swing states?

This behavior is being normalized, as they're not even trying to hide it anymore. I'm not sure what all can be done from a federal level, but I hope Biden moves swiftly to put measures in place to prevent this as much as possible.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:20 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:48 pmIn other news, police in NC pepper sprayed and arrested peaceful protestors marching to vote.

We better get used to this. The police know they can get away with this. They can beat people. They can arrest reporters on thin charges and just drop them in the street the next day without charges. They usually can get away with murder. There is no reason for them to stop doing things like this. Absolutely nothing will happen to even one of these officers.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:26 pm

https://twitter.com/natfrum/status/1322 ... 35332?s=20

The police response caused an elderly woman in a wheelchair to have a seizure, and the cops sprayed people trying to help her.

Fucking Nazis.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:39 pm

stessier wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:18 pm
stessier wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:42 pm
stessier wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:03 pm
stessier wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:52 am I applied to be a county poll manager today (they have a number of openings). If I'm turned down for that for whatever reason, I'll apply to be just a poll worker. Most of these positions are historically filled by retired people in my area, so this is my attempt to make sure we have as many polling places as possible open in November. My wife and I discussed the likely health risks given our area is already the hottest spot in our state and think this is one of those times that it's worth it.
Got a survey today making sure I was available to work and attend the in person training sessions. Should hear back in about 3 weeks. In person training is sometime between 9/8 and 10/24. The election is 11/3, so they might be cutting it a bit close at the end there.
Got my in-person training set up for 10/5 - it's a 3 hour class. I've started the online training. The first 2 (or 5) modules took 41 minutes to complete and covered setting up the polling place, making sure it's accessible to all, and how to set up the ballot marking machines and the scanner. It's surprisingly interesting. They also covered how to account for people who voted absentee - I don't see how someone could vote twice unless they were never recorded requesting an absentee ballot - but then the absentee ballot wouldn't be counted, so still only one vote.
I'm moving this as I think this it the more appropriate thread.

I had my in person training today at the county seat. Of note, it was also the first day of in person absentee voting in SC, which also occurs at the county seat. When I arrived at 8:35, the line was already 2 hours long (voting started at 8:30) and they said the first voter arrived at 5am. When I left at noon, the line was 3 hours long. I'd estimate about 150-200 people when I arrived and a solid 200+ when I left.

The training was just a repetition of the online material, but it doesn't hurt to hear it again. A few things of note:
Each party is allowed two Poll Watchers - the letter carrying certified variety. Each candidate is also allowed 2. If necessary, the Party ones take precedence over the candidate ones. These are the only ones who can challenge a voter.

Any number of poll observers are allowed - they are just people who watch the goings on. They can't disrupt the proceedings in any way. All of this is subject to social distancing, so the number of observers is actually limited by the 6' rule. Our teacher said these are usually students doing an assignment for a teacher. This year, though, who knows.

No election materials within 200 ft. This means no MAGA or BLM or anything like that hats, masks, shirts, etc. They are still working on a full list. They can cover it up, turn it inside out, etc, but the slogan can't be visible. If they refuse, they will not be allowed in to vote. I suspect this is where our real fun is going to happen on the big day.

Workers are required to wear PPE and will be given a mask, a face shield, and gloves. There will be signs for voters to mask up, but we can't require them and are to say nothing if someone is unmasked. If someone is obviously sick, we can move them to the front of the line and get them out ASAP. We then have to wipe down everything they touched.

Outside of the above, we will be wiping everything down every hour-ish. We are giving everyone big q-tips to use on the Ballot Marking Devices (touchscreen computers), so there shouldn't be a lot of person to person touching stuff. The only place I really see it is if they lean on the tables or when they take the ballot to the scanning machine.

They are expecting 80-90% turnout for the election. This includes absentee ballots, but they still said to be ready for huge lines. Normally it's a 6am-8:30pm commitment. They said all bets are off this year.

I find the whole Provisional and Failsafe ballots fascinating. If you are in SC and plan to vote in person, save everyone some time. Bring a valid photo ID (one of 5 options) and be sure to go to your assigned precinct. Having to fall back to one of those paper options means you'll have to go to the county seat a day or two after the election and explain why your vote should be counted. If you don't show up, your vote is not counted. The entire county is processed on the same day, so it will not be quick. Try to avoid this if at all possible.

Today I found out I was assigned to the largest precinct in our county with 5800 voters. As of today, right at 1000 had already voted in-person-absentee. We don't have a count of how many mail in ballots might have been requested. I'm going to be one of 30 people working at that location. I'm kinda getting excited - sounds like I'll be busy all day.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:27 pm

Little Raven wrote:
Skinypupy wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:09 pmI get “because GOP”, but that feels like it should be a bridge to far, even for them.
I suspect it is. I'll be very surprised if the Texas courts ultimately entertain the idea.

This isn’t a Texas Court anymore. This is now in federal court (per the tweet).

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:39 pm

IANAL, but this seems to track with my thinking The idea they simply get tossed out seems rather ludicrous, but who the hell knows at this point.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Teri_Kanefie ... 8145111040

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:40 pm

Totally reasonable request...

https://mobile.twitter.com/JesseLehrich ... 3713187841

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:04 am

RunningMn9 wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:27 pmThis isn’t a Texas Court anymore. This is now in federal court (per the tweet).

Yeah, looks like the Texas court already sent them packing. That really doesn't bode well for their chances. I don't care how partisan this judge is....if they couldn't sell the Texas Supreme Court (utterly dominated by conservatives) then there's no way in hell they sell the Feds.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 10:58 am

Little Raven wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:04 am
RunningMn9 wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:27 pmThis isn’t a Texas Court anymore. This is now in federal court (per the tweet).
Yeah, looks like the Texas court already sent them packing. That really doesn't bode well for their chances. I don't care how partisan this judge is....if they couldn't sell the Texas Supreme Court (utterly dominated by conservatives) then there's no way in hell they sell the Feds.

I think there's a high chance that they convince the district court judge, since he's apparently a rabid partisan. I think you're badly underestimating activist judges here.

What happens after that is harder to say. But I don't have a ton of faith in the 5th Circuit at this point. If Trump wins Texas by < 100,000 votes, protesters are going to need to make themselves heard in and around the courthouse.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:27 am

El Guapo wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 10:58 am
Little Raven wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:04 am
RunningMn9 wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:27 pmThis isn’t a Texas Court anymore. This is now in federal court (per the tweet).
Yeah, looks like the Texas court already sent them packing. That really doesn't bode well for their chances. I don't care how partisan this judge is....if they couldn't sell the Texas Supreme Court (utterly dominated by conservatives) then there's no way in hell they sell the Feds.
I think there's a high chance that they convince the district court judge, since he's apparently a rabid partisan. I think you're badly underestimating activist judges here.

What happens after that is harder to say. But I don't have a ton of faith in the 5th Circuit at this point. If Trump wins Texas by < 100,000 votes, protesters are going to need to make themselves heard in and around the courthouse.

I tend to agree and it wouldn’t surprise me if he rules in their favor. What I have a harder time imagining is the remedy being that they simply toss 100k ballots in the trash. I wouldn’t put it past them, mind you, but if that is allowed to happen, then we’re pretty well fucked anyways.

I also wonder how much public pressure could play into this. It’s one thing to quietly slip suppression measures like this under the radar...quite another when it’s being amplified to the moon and everyone is watching.

Guess we’ll see.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:42 am

I keep telling myself for the GOP to be going to this level, they have to know things are bad. In other words, their slow-roll of gerrymandering the crap out of districts to ensure control has worked great, but only because of voter apathy and how long it takes to unfurl. The only way to combat high turnout is to take away polling places and attempt to get rid of ballots by raising technical violation claims. They're down to their last, final ditch effort here to retain power so it's an anything goes effort.

I keep going back and forth between total despair and hope. Tuesday is going to suuuuuck.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:58 am

Smoove_B wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:42 am I keep telling myself for the GOP to be going to this level, they have to know things are bad. In other words, their slow-roll of gerrymandering the crap out of districts to ensure control has worked great, but only because of voter apathy and how long it takes to unfurl. The only way to combat high turnout is to take away polling places and attempt to get rid of ballots by raising technical violation claims. They're down to their last, final ditch effort here to retain power so it's an anything goes effort.

I keep going back and forth between total despair and hope. Tuesday is going to suuuuuck.

Walking, breathing pile of shit Jason Miller essentially said they believe that Trump will have 290 EC votes on Tuesday night and the Democrats will try to steal the election. Again the quiet part out loud. I hope to hell this doesn't happen and the media outlets have to be very careful how they cover this because they are planning to go to war to steal this election.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:12 pm

malchior wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:58 am I hope to hell this doesn't happen and the media outlets have to be very careful how they cover this because they are planning to go to war to steal this election.

Depending on the media to responsibly cover the election seems like a spectacularly bad idea.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:24 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:12 pm
malchior wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:58 am I hope to hell this doesn't happen and the media outlets have to be very careful how they cover this because they are planning to go to war to steal this election.
Depending on the media to responsibly cover the election seems like a spectacularly bad idea.

It is unfortunately all we have. I wish I could say I'm astonished at how irresponsible the George Stephanopoulos segment was this morning but Jake Tapper and others are sub-tweeting it right now as being a lie.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:09 pm

malchior wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:24 pm
Skinypupy wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:12 pm
malchior wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:58 am I hope to hell this doesn't happen and the media outlets have to be very careful how they cover this because they are planning to go to war to steal this election.
Depending on the media to responsibly cover the election seems like a spectacularly bad idea.
It is unfortunately all we have. I wish I could say I'm astonished at how irresponsible the George Stephanopoulos segment was this morning but Jake Tapper and others are sub-tweeting it right now as being a lie.

What segment?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:11 pm

https://twitter.com/burntfort/status/13 ... 5081369605

This is describing a coup.

The New York Times
Trump advisers said their best hope was if the president wins Ohio and Florida is too close to call early in the night, depriving Biden a swift victory and giving Trump the room to undermine the validity of uncounted mail-in ballots in the days after.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:13 pm

El Guapo wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:09 pm
malchior wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:24 pm
Skinypupy wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:12 pm
malchior wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:58 am I hope to hell this doesn't happen and the media outlets have to be very careful how they cover this because they are planning to go to war to steal this election.
Depending on the media to responsibly cover the election seems like a spectacularly bad idea.
It is unfortunately all we have. I wish I could say I'm astonished at how irresponsible the George Stephanopoulos segment was this morning but Jake Tapper and others are sub-tweeting it right now as being a lie.
What segment?

He was interviewing Jason Miller, who said Trump will be ahead in enough states to win the election on Tuesday night but then Democrats will attempt to "steal" the election with votes counted later.

Stephanapoulos didn't push back at all on the idea that counting legitimate votes was stealing.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:15 pm

Prediction on coverage:

Civilized World: Biden wins by a landslide!

Fox News: Too close to call.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:20 pm

Jaymann wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:15 pm Prediction on coverage:

Civilized World: Biden wins by a landslide!

Fox News: Too close to call.

Fox News would also mention they are "looking into" "numerous" "reports of voter fraud".

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:25 pm

The other thing is that I assume Trumpworld is going to put heavy pressure on the Florida government to not report any results that suggest a Biden win and/or to put a Trump-friendly spin on things.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:04 pm

Didn't these same hypocrites say this was justification for running people over?

https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/ ... 2412686343

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:23 pm

https://twitter.com/chucklindell/status ... 2875502593

There's still the federal hearing tomorrow which I'm super concerned about, but this is good, and probably helps at least a little.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:47 pm

malchior wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:04 pm Didn't these same hypocrites say this was justification for running people over?

Still waiting for the video showing them being tear gassed and clubbed. Did I miss it?

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:51 pm

El Guapo wrote:The other thing is that I assume Trumpworld is going to put heavy pressure on the Florida government to not report any results that suggest a Biden win and/or to put a Trump-friendly spin on things.

How? Each county supervisor of elections publishes their own data independently of the state, and not all are republicans.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:52 pm

https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/stat ... 81248?s=20

Maybe this is the same group from the Garden State Pkwy?