Election integrity and the transfer of power

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:50 am

Honestly I think this is just a dude who is getting evicted and is trashing the house on the way out. I'm more worried about the fact that the Republicans will now use all his crazy ass tactics going forward. We thought they were bad before? Hold my ballot...

I am super worried about crazy milita groups doing something at some point. I mean it's not like they haven't blown up entire government buildings before. Or tried to kidnap people. That was so last month.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:55 am

The worst thing is delaying the transition. Two months to get ready for a handover of every administration function is already pretty tight. Trump is going to push it down to like ten days.

And don't think authoritarians worldwide aren't *loving* Trump undermining our transition of power. This is absolutely Christmas for Putin.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:56 am

Was reading a bunch of analysis from smart people last night that these moves (especially in DoD) feel much more like a CYA than consolidating power. Asha Rangappa had a good summary here.

https://twitter.com/AshaRangappa_/statu ... 0696029186

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:01 am

RunningMn9 wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:22 pm
malchior wrote:USPS guy released a video saying he didn't recant and he'll be releasing audio of him being coerced...to not recant I guess...tomorrow. He got the message out via James O'Keefe for extra reliability in the message.

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status ... 9048355840
As noted, PA is a state that requires two-party consent to recording, so good luck with that.

I just assumed they got ahold of Feds' recordings.

This guy surreptitiously recorded the interviews himself?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:06 am

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:01 am
RunningMn9 wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:22 pm
malchior wrote:USPS guy released a video saying he didn't recant and he'll be releasing audio of him being coerced...to not recant I guess...tomorrow. He got the message out via James O'Keefe for extra reliability in the message.

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status ... 9048355840
As noted, PA is a state that requires two-party consent to recording, so good luck with that.
I just assumed they got ahold of Feds' recordings.

This guy surreptitiously recorded the interviews himself?

https://twitter.com/obarcala/status/1326309074460418048

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:09 am

That postal worker is going to get his ass handed to him. Poor guy had no idea what he was getting himself into.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:11 am

Octavious wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:09 am That postal worker is going to get his ass handed to him. Poor guy had no idea what he was getting himself into.

Yeah, this is the thing. The Project Veritas people are talking some poor schmuck into huge criminal liability (and possibly exposing themselves as well).

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:33 am

Fuck 'em. Play stupid games - win stupid prizes. Enough with these amateur fascists. I'd love nothing more to see O'Keefe go down like Wohl is about to.

Changing subjects - in another WTF is going on with this country moment we have this:

https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/ ... 2487702528

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:53 am

malchior wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:33 am Fuck 'em. Play stupid games - win stupid prizes. Enough with these amateur fascists. I'd love nothing more to see O'Keefe go down like Wohl is about to.

Changing subjects - in another WTF is going on with this country moment we have this:

https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/ ... 2487702528

Hopefully someone sends them the full list of political appointees in the building. That will keep the amateur-hour staff busy until the end.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:30 pm

You know Hitler kept Goering in charge of the military even though he was incompetent as fuck. But he was loyal.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:00 pm

https://twitter.com/AnaCabrera/status/1 ... 0579890180

CNN: As of Wednesday morning, only four Republican senators—Mitt Romney, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins and Ben Sasse--have congratulated President-elect Joe Biden on his projected victory.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:03 pm

I generally think George Conway is gross, but I did like his analogy here.

https://twitter.com/gtconway3d/status/1 ... 1025013768

The way I look at Trump and his minions' nonsense is that they're like a bunch of drunks trying to take down a skyscraper with a blowtorch. I don't think they have the remotest chance of succeeding, but I also don't think we should allow them to start a fire while they try.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:07 pm

https://twitter.com/awprokop/status/1326536253836201984

Already there's polling that 70% of Republicans think the election was stolen. I think that's more likely to go up than down, which will lead to pressure on GOP officials to do what they can to overturn the results. Some signs of cracking in the PA and WI GOP. The GA secretary of state has been good so far, but I think the odds that he cracks and starts taking steps to try to change the GA result over the next few weeks are high.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:15 pm

I wonder how these Republicans came to the conclusion that this election was stolen (despite not a single piece of evidence)?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:16 pm

The voters told them.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:19 pm

I'd admit the faithless elector thing scares me more than anything else in this election. I know it sounds far-fetched, but then again everything that has actually happened in 2020 has sounded far-fetched. I don't know what kind of back channel money is exchanging hands, nor what kind of threats are being promised. Trump is in full mob boss mode, and nothing would surprise me at this point.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:27 pm

YellowKing wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:19 pm I'd admit the faithless elector thing scares me more than anything else in this election. I know it sounds far-fetched, but then again everything that has actually happened in 2020 has sounded far-fetched. I don't know what kind of back channel money is exchanging hands, nor what kind of threats are being promised. Trump is in full mob boss mode, and nothing would surprise me at this point.

Same.

The lawsuits are all empty theater and noise. The elector thing is actually a bit frightening, albeit very unlikely.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:35 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:27 pm
YellowKing wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:19 pm I'd admit the faithless elector thing scares me more than anything else in this election. I know it sounds far-fetched, but then again everything that has actually happened in 2020 has sounded far-fetched. I don't know what kind of back channel money is exchanging hands, nor what kind of threats are being promised. Trump is in full mob boss mode, and nothing would surprise me at this point.
Same.

The lawsuits are all empty theater and noise. The elector thing is actually a bit frightening, albeit very unlikely.

Assuming the votes are certified as they now stand, faithless electors would be essentially the equivalent of declaring civil war. Dudes in the state houses: Do you seriously want to destroy American democracy for the sake of the grifter in chief? Presumably they have careers and families they want to survive 2020.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:01 pm

The issue isn’t faithless electors, it’s GOP state legislatures not seating Biden electors that is the threat in states that he won that is the problem.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:14 pm

When the legislature overturns the vote of the people because they don't like the result, we're done.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:15 pm

Blackhawk wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:14 pm When the legislature overturns the vote of the people because they don't like the result, we're done.

Yup. There are a LOT of huge barriers that they'd have to overcome in order to get this done. But one upside is that if they pull it off, we can at least be honest and stop pretending that we live in a democracy.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:38 pm

El Guapo wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:15 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:14 pm When the legislature overturns the vote of the people because they don't like the result, we're done.
Yup. There are a LOT of huge barriers that they'd have to overcome in order to get this done. But one upside is that if they pull it off, we can at least be honest and stop pretending that we live in a democracy.

And at the very least I can stop paying my income taxes.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:49 pm

LordMortis wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:38 pm
El Guapo wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:15 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:14 pm When the legislature overturns the vote of the people because they don't like the result, we're done.
Yup. There are a LOT of huge barriers that they'd have to overcome in order to get this done. But one upside is that if they pull it off, we can at least be honest and stop pretending that we live in a democracy.
And at the very least I can stop paying my income taxes.

Well, no, you can't. Unless you move, I suppose.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:57 pm

El Guapo wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:49 pm

Well, no, you can't. Unless you move, I suppose.

I guess moving to prison would be a move.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:02 pm

Defiant wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:57 pm
El Guapo wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:49 pm

Well, no, you can't. Unless you move, I suppose.
I guess moving to prison would be a move.

He could also become an oligarch, I suppose. Someone probably ought to, in order to protect OO in that grim, dystopian future.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:09 pm

Fox News: "We shouldn't seat Biden electors because people in red states have hurt feelings" What's that quote about feelings again...?

Apparently now we should decide elections based on who whines the most.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1326635693825617920

“The anger out there in these red states is so deep and palpable that GOP legislators may have a difficult time seating Biden electors” — Fox News is laying that groundwork for Republicans to invalidate the election results and install Trump in office for another 4 years

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:48 pm

The Guardian wrote:There is a long-shot legal theory, floated by Republicans before the election, that Republican-friendly legislatures in places such as Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania could ignore the popular vote in their states and appoint their own electors. Federal law allows legislatures to do this if states have “failed to make a choice” by the day the electoral college meets. But there is no evidence of systemic fraud of wrongdoing in any state and Biden’s commanding margins in these places make it clear that the states have in fact made a choice.]

This made me feel a bit better, until I kept reading...

The Guardian wrote:For lawmakers in a single state to choose to override the clear will of its voters this way would be extraordinary and probably cause a huge outcry. For Trump to win the electoral college, several states would have to take this extraordinary step, a move that would cause extreme backlash and a real crisis of democracy throughout the country.

So the defense against this happening is that "there would be a huge outcry." Hey guess what Guardian - the Republicans don't give a shit about huge outcries. They haven't for four years. And apparently 70 million voters would be perfectly fine letting them do it. No outcry from them.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:49 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:03 pm I generally think George Conway is gross, but I did like his analogy here.

https://twitter.com/gtconway3d/status/1 ... 1025013768

The way I look at Trump and his minions' nonsense is that they're like a bunch of drunks trying to take down a skyscraper with a blowtorch. I don't think they have the remotest chance of succeeding, but I also don't think we should allow them to start a fire while they try.

Fires can still be dangerous

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:34 pm

Yes. He became President in a similar fashion. He basically spouted different messages for years until the racist one took hold and he accidentally rode that shit to the White House. This is the same thing. He tries different messages and angle and hopes one works out. He might be completely incompetent but like a rat in a maze sometimes they find the cheese.

https://twitter.com/OrinKerr/status/1326706846766309376

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:32 am

trump is all about money, and donations are still pouring in. We already know that 50% are going to pay down his debts. Of course he wants that to go on for as long as possible. He'll thrash like a hooked fish right up until noon on Jan. 20...and beyond, if he can persuade his faithful to keep sending him money for some reason.

Although I don't think any facts back it up, I also like the allegation that agencies throughout the government are destroying evidence of corruption.

As for GOP complicity, widespread belief in voter fraud will aid in their future suppression measures, which they're well-positioned to expand. But mainly they're paralyzed by the GA runoffs right now.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:23 am

Kraken wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:32 amAlthough I don't think any facts back it up, I also like the allegation that agencies throughout the government are destroying evidence of corruption.

Having inside knowledge...I don't believe it. Maybe they think they can but it is way too hard to do unless everything is only on paper. And it's not. Are they setting fire to tape backups too?

That said, I welcome the attempts because the mountains of data are the best defense against discovery. In that spirit, I encourage them try to hide something. It'll just clue the authorities into areas where they should look.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:34 am

malchior wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:23 am
Kraken wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:32 amAlthough I don't think any facts back it up, I also like the allegation that agencies throughout the government are destroying evidence of corruption.
Having inside knowledge...I don't believe it. Maybe they think they can but it is way too hard to do unless everything is only on paper. And it's not. Are they setting fire to tape backups too?

That said, I welcome the attempts because the mountains of data are the best defense against discovery. In that spirit, I encourage them try to hide something. It'll just clue the authorities into area where they should look.

I said I like it, not that I believe it. If there's one thing bureaucracies take seriously, it's preserving records. One cannot defeat that with dumpster fires.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:45 am

Kraken wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:34 am
malchior wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:23 am
Kraken wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:32 amAlthough I don't think any facts back it up, I also like the allegation that agencies throughout the government are destroying evidence of corruption.
Having inside knowledge...I don't believe it. Maybe they think they can but it is way too hard to do unless everything is only on paper. And it's not. Are they setting fire to tape backups too?

That said, I welcome the attempts because the mountains of data are the best defense against discovery. In that spirit, I encourage them try to hide something. It'll just clue the authorities into area where they should look.
I said I like it, not that I believe it. If there's one thing bureaucracies take seriously, it's preserving records. One cannot defeat that with dumpster fires.

Sorry - wasn't implying you believed it. Yeah this was more a comment that I have solid direct knowledge of.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:51 am

Wasn't there a group in Germany one time that kept meticulous records?

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:58 am

Even the most loyal of Trump's sycophants are starting to turn on him (Ruddy is the guy who Trump was supposedly going to be starting a Fox-competitor TV network with)

https://twitter.com/TomJChicago/status/ ... 4592947210

Right wing Newsmax, which is owned by Trump’s friend Chris Ruddy, suggesting he retire:

“To avoid all this unpleasantness President Trump should retire immediately and let Mike Pence concede the election, occupy the White House and handle the transition”

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:01 am

Blackhawk wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:14 pm When the legislature overturns the vote of the people because they don't like the result, we're done.

I agree.
This would make the BLM protests look like kittens.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:17 am

Skinypupy wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:58 am
Right wing Newsmax, which is owned by Trump’s friend Chris Ruddy, suggesting he retire:

“To avoid all this unpleasantness President Trump should retire immediately and let Mike Pence concede the election, occupy the White House and handle the transition”

... and create an viable option for pardoning Trump before January 20th...

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:27 am

Skinypupy wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:58 am Even the most loyal of Trump's sycophants are starting to turn on him (Ruddy is the guy who Trump was supposedly going to be starting a Fox-competitor TV network with)

Appealing to his business interests would probably work but you have to wonder how acute Trump's understanding of the legal peril he is in is guiding him. We've seen a few of the media people trying to reason with Trump in delusion and it is unclear what dynamic is winning out (if any). Unfortunately, the elected folk are still mostly behind Trump.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:30 am

LordMortis wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:17 am
Skinypupy wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:58 am
Right wing Newsmax, which is owned by Trump’s friend Chris Ruddy, suggesting he retire:

“To avoid all this unpleasantness President Trump should retire immediately and let Mike Pence concede the election, occupy the White House and handle the transition”

... and create an viable option for pardoning Trump before January 20th...

I don't like it, but it would probably be a lower cost than the alternatives.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:47 am

malchior wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:27 am Unfortunately, the elected folk are still mostly behind Trump.

I wonder if that tide may be slowly turning as well. Not nearly as quickly as we'd like or as it needs to, but it could be shifting. Really depends on what Trump's end goal is, which is still unclear.

If it's to legitimately try and seize power, we could be in this for the long (and scary) haul. If it's to get one last big grifting haul (see his frantic fundraising e-mails as Exhibit A) while establishing himself as the fighter who ultimately couldn't prevail against a rigged system while transitioning to a media network and making Biden's job more difficult, then that could end at any time.

I'm starting to feel it's more the latter, but time will tell.