Moderators: $iljanus, LawBeefaroni
I agree but I have a little sympathy because they are also so...so...so...stupid. Their leaders failed them and encouraged this behavior.Unagi wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:10 amI have Zero sympathy for anyone that took part in the insurrection yesterday.
Burn him good.A newly elected member of the West Virginia House of Delegates has been seen in a video as part of the group of pro-Trump rioters who forced their way into the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday.
...
The video that shows Evans entering the Capitol was later deleted, though not before multiple social media users made and shared copies of it.
At one point during the video, hundreds of people are shown forcing their way into the building, and someone is heard yelling: "We're in! We're in! Derrick Evans is in the Capitol!
I have the same sympathy I do for someone killed holding up a liquor store or breaking into a home. They didn't set out to die, didn't "deserve" to die, and may well have been a good person, act of crime notwithstanding. But but the outcome was at the very least a high probably and they choose that path.
^^^^^LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:01 am Very sad. Tragic. But nothing tells me it was a bad shoot. Would suck to be the officer in that position.
You can't be in the vanguard of a riot breaking into the fucking Capitol Building and not assume a very high risk of getting killed or injured.
I don't know about that. He was an CNBC this morning saying he wasn't sure what he was doing. That he believed in Turmp's presidency and the good things done in spite of his inclination "to think out loud" but that he had to sit at dinner with his children yesterday and talk about insurrection.malchior wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:07 am Mulvaney resigned as Special Envoy to Ireland. Stephanie Ruhle just mentioned that Mulvaney wasn't even doing that much. He has been running around for a year trying to start up a hedge fund so this is essentially a performance to back away from Trump. I suspect we will see so many of these dirt bags scurrying away over the next few days/weeks/months.
I just saw a clip of that. I don't believe him. More so, he hasn't been doing anything substantive for a year but yesterday's event was the tripping line. Cool. I don't care. It wasn't like Trump wasn't inciting this for months. So in my opinion, this is all about Mulvaney cynically rehabilitating his own reputation so he can continue to feed those kids. I have no reason to believe objectively bad people like him are suddenly doing anything because they sprang a conscience. Further, saying the Trump administration did good things marks him as an irredeemable dirt bag in my mind.LordMortis wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:24 am^^^^^LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:01 am Very sad. Tragic. But nothing tells me it was a bad shoot. Would suck to be the officer in that position.
You can't be in the vanguard of a riot breaking into the fucking Capitol Building and not assume a very high risk of getting killed or injured.
This
I don't know about that. He was an CNBC this morning saying he wasn't sure what he was doing. That he believed in Turmp's presidency and the good things done in spite of his inclination "to think out loud" but that he had to sit at dinner with his children yesterday and talk about insurrection.malchior wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:07 am Mulvaney resigned as Special Envoy to Ireland. Stephanie Ruhle just mentioned that Mulvaney wasn't even doing that much. He has been running around for a year trying to start up a hedge fund so this is essentially a performance to back away from Trump. I suspect we will see so many of these dirt bags scurrying away over the next few days/weeks/months.
Yeah, you don't get to resign at the very end and regain your integrity. Far too little, far too late. You get to keep the taint and wear it forever.malchior wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:33 amI just saw a clip of that. I don't believe him. More so, he hasn't been doing anything substantive for a year but yesterday's event was the tripping line. Cool. I don't care. It wasn't like Trump wasn't inciting this for months. So in my opinion, this is all about Mulvaney cynically rehabilitating his own reputation so he can continue to feed those kids. I have no reason to believe objectively bad people like him are suddenly doing anything because they sprang a conscience. Further, saying the Trump administration did good things marks him as an irredeemable dirt bag in my mind.LordMortis wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:24 am^^^^^LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:01 am Very sad. Tragic. But nothing tells me it was a bad shoot. Would suck to be the officer in that position.
You can't be in the vanguard of a riot breaking into the fucking Capitol Building and not assume a very high risk of getting killed or injured.
This
I don't know about that. He was an CNBC this morning saying he wasn't sure what he was doing. That he believed in Turmp's presidency and the good things done in spite of his inclination "to think out loud" but that he had to sit at dinner with his children yesterday and talk about insurrection.malchior wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:07 am Mulvaney resigned as Special Envoy to Ireland. Stephanie Ruhle just mentioned that Mulvaney wasn't even doing that much. He has been running around for a year trying to start up a hedge fund so this is essentially a performance to back away from Trump. I suspect we will see so many of these dirt bags scurrying away over the next few days/weeks/months.
;tldr Fuck Mulvaney. Fuck everyone who enabled Trump and stood by while he tore down this country. They have blood on their hands. They deserve nothing but to be shunned, impoverished, and remembered as the low life grifters and thugs that they are.
That's an interesting statement.LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:23 ammay well have been a good person, act of crime notwithstanding
It's linked at the top of this page.Blackhawk wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:40 am It's kind of like that woman whose interview I saw linked a couple of times yesterday. She was shocked that she'd been maced. When asked what she was doing when she got maced, she said that she was just (paraphrasing) "storming the capitol - you know, to start the revolution!" Well, gosh!
The fact that insurgents stormed the US capitol building and only one person ended up shot was a huge surprise to me, and shows either an incredible amount of restraint, or an incredible lack of decision making by someone in charge.
/edit - this lady:
https://twitter.com/hunterw/status/1346919171595137025
| Running__ | __2014: 1300.55 miles__ | __2015: 2036.13 miles__ | __2016: 1012.75 miles__ | __2017: 1105.82 miles__ | __2018: 1318.91 miles | __2019: 2000.00 miles |
I'm not saying Yay Mulvaney. Or that he's a good person. Or that I look past his part in creating this monster. I'm saying he may have actually believed what he was doing and believe that the problem is what Trump is getting away with now vs what Trump was getting away with then. That is not incongruous with Fuck Mulvaney.malchior wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:33 am I just saw a clip of that. I don't believe him. More so, he hasn't been doing anything substantive for a year but yesterday's event was the tripping line. Cool. I don't care. It wasn't like Trump wasn't inciting this for months. So in my opinion, this is all about Mulvaney cynically rehabilitating his own reputation so he can continue to feed those kids. I have no reason to believe objectively bad people like him are suddenly doing anything because they sprang a conscience. Further, saying the Trump administration did good things marks him as an irredeemable dirt bag in my mind.
;tldr Fuck Mulvaney. Fuck everyone who enabled Trump and stood by while he tore down this country. They have blood on their hands. They deserve nothing but to be shunned, impoverished, and remembered as the low life grifters and thugs that they are.
Edit: One more point - Mulvaney went on CNBC because he is trying to calm his investors. It is blatantly and transparently him trying to save his grift. Again fuck Mulvaney.
It has to be both, right? Great that the cops on the ground kept cool and didn't just shoot everyone. But the fact they were put in that position when insurgents storming the castle was literally broadcast as the plan means those in charge are either complicit or entirely incompetent. I don't see a middle ground option.Blackhawk wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:40 am The fact that insurgents stormed the US capitol building and only one person ended up shot was a huge surprise to me, and shows either an incredible amount of restraint, or an incredible lack of decision making by someone in charge.
It’s actually been posted three or four times already.
Dear god, this. Beyond the simple fact that doing so would, as you correctly surmise, muzzle a dangerous voice. It would also enrage him, which I find funny.Skinypupy wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:51 am
It is amazing to consider how much of a difference there could potentially be in the course of the entire country if Twitter would simply extend the ban of one person for another, say, 13 days.
While the MAGA's would undoubtedly howl, removing Trump's primary megaphone would make the world a lot safer place right now.
Oh I got your message. I'm saying I don't believe that. He knows what he is doing. To put a fine point on it, he went on CNBC for a *specific reason*. He didn't give an interview to the Times or CNN. He has been running around trying to start a hedge for a year and that was now threatened so he went to CNBC. He isn't talking to the American people. He is talking to his investors. IMO with people like this you have to look beyond the surface and in this case there is deep badness in there.LordMortis wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:46 amI'm not saying Yay Mulvaney. Or that he's a good person. Or that I look past his part in creating this monster. I'm saying he may have actually believed what he was doing and believe that the problem is what Trump is getting away with now vs what Trump was getting away with then. That is not incongruous with Fuck Mulvaney.malchior wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:33 am I just saw a clip of that. I don't believe him. More so, he hasn't been doing anything substantive for a year but yesterday's event was the tripping line. Cool. I don't care. It wasn't like Trump wasn't inciting this for months. So in my opinion, this is all about Mulvaney cynically rehabilitating his own reputation so he can continue to feed those kids. I have no reason to believe objectively bad people like him are suddenly doing anything because they sprang a conscience. Further, saying the Trump administration did good things marks him as an irredeemable dirt bag in my mind.
;tldr Fuck Mulvaney. Fuck everyone who enabled Trump and stood by while he tore down this country. They have blood on their hands. They deserve nothing but to be shunned, impoverished, and remembered as the low life grifters and thugs that they are.
Edit: One more point - Mulvaney went on CNBC because he is trying to calm his investors. It is blatantly and transparently him trying to save his grift. Again fuck Mulvaney.
Aren't the Capitol Police a federal agency that serves and answers directly to Congress? Whose heads are they calling for?El Guapo wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:43 am FWIW the head of House Appropriations (Tim Ryan) has said that "heads will roll" at Capital Police over this.
Ahh, there it is. I was waiting to see where those goalposts would be moved next.Holman wrote:—The new expectation is that Trump can *only now* put his Plan into action because the criminal election theft is complete.
Actually, that's been the expectation for awhile now, as being retired, I have time to waste on this stuffHolman wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:49 am In case you’re wondering, here’s how Q/MAGAworld is doing:
—The new expectation is that Trump can *only now* put his Plan into action because the criminal election theft is complete.
Trump could only move once the act of treason is complete by the certification of a fraudulent EC. Now that the crime has been committed, he is free to call in the military and put everyone in Gitmo and try them for treason - Hillary, Obama, Biden, Harris, Soros, Pence, the list goes on and on. Makes total sense, right?
Yes? That's why heads are going to roll. Presumably the first people in line would be the current head of the Capitol Police, along with people whose primary responsibilities involved deployment of officers and those responsible for security planning on January 6th.LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:20 amAren't the Capitol Police a federal agency that serves and answers directly to Congress? Whose heads are they calling for?El Guapo wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:43 am FWIW the head of House Appropriations (Tim Ryan) has said that "heads will roll" at Capital Police over this.
The chief of the Capitol Police and his top aides. They certainly should roll, they failed horribly at their most basic function. There was no excuse for them not being prepared. There were more police defending the Capitol during the BLM protests and they never talked about going to the Capitol on social media as the Trumpers did. Trump holds a rally on the day of the EC certification within walking distance of the Capitol and you don't think there might be potential problems? Seriously?LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:20 amAren't the Capitol Police a federal agency that serves and answers directly to Congress? Whose heads are they calling for?El Guapo wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:43 am FWIW the head of House Appropriations (Tim Ryan) has said that "heads will roll" at Capital Police over this.
It's an old excuse, but the line has been moved several times.Grifman wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:35 amActually, that's been the expectation for awhile now, as being retired, I have time to waste on this stuffHolman wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:49 am In case you’re wondering, here’s how Q/MAGAworld is doing:
—The new expectation is that Trump can *only now* put his Plan into action because the criminal election theft is complete.
I'd be shocked to learn that certain foreign intelligence agencies didn't have a few people available to join even an impromptu break-in at the U.S. Capitol.$iljanus wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:39 am On perhaps a paranoid note (but hey it's all free game now) it would be quite the intelligence coup if some flash drives with backdoor malware happened to find its way onto a computer during the scrum. In a few years when the dust settles such a thing if undiscovered would yield dividends...
Perhaps there was an operation planned for the infiltration of a Federal building during unrest but the planners were laughed out of the room because such an occurrence would be impossible with the physical security measures that are in place...Holman wrote:I'd be shocked to learn that certain foreign intelligence agencies didn't have a few people available to join even an impromptu break-in at the U.S. Capitol.$iljanus wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:39 am On perhaps a paranoid note (but hey it's all free game now) it would be quite the intelligence coup if some flash drives with backdoor malware happened to find its way onto a computer during the scrum. In a few years when the dust settles such a thing if undiscovered would yield dividends...
El Guapo wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:38 amYes? That's why heads are going to roll. Presumably the first people in line would be the current head of the Capitol Police, along with people whose primary responsibilities involved deployment of officers and those responsible for security planning on January 6th.LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:20 amAren't the Capitol Police a federal agency that serves and answers directly to Congress? Whose heads are they calling for?El Guapo wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:43 am FWIW the head of House Appropriations (Tim Ryan) has said that "heads will roll" at Capital Police over this.
I guess my point is that Congress is where the buck stops for the Capitol.Police. They're getting all indignant about the failure of their reports. A large number of Senators and Representatives were fomenting exactly what happened yet this is on CP brass?Grifman wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:38 amThe chief of the Capitol Police and his top aides. They certainly should roll, they failed horribly at their most basic function. There was no excuse for them not being prepared. There were more police defending the Capitol during the BLM protests and they never talked about going to the Capitol on social media as the Trumpers did. Trump holds a rally on the day of the EC certification within walking distance of the Capitol and you don't think there might be potential problems? Seriously?LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:20 amAren't the Capitol Police a federal agency that serves and answers directly to Congress? Whose heads are they calling for?El Guapo wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:43 am FWIW the head of House Appropriations (Tim Ryan) has said that "heads will roll" at Capital Police over this.
That's where my mind goes.$iljanus wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:39 am On perhaps a paranoid note (but hey it's all free game now) it would be quite the intelligence coup for an unnamed foreign power if some flash drives with backdoor malware happened to find its way onto a computer during the scrum. In a few years when the dust settles such a thing if undiscovered would yield dividends...
"Sergei! Are you not watchink TV news?? Get MAGA suit from closet and go join into crowd at Capitol buildink!!"$iljanus wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:48 am Perhaps there was an operation planned for the infiltration of a Federal building during unrest but the planners were laughed out of the room because such an occurrence would be impossible with the physical security measures that are in place...
DC is such a morass of different jurisdictions. The Capitol Police is responsible for policing the Capitol. The DC National Guard is under Federal control vs at the disposal of the mayor. The US Park Police is another autonomous law enforcement agency. Trump can certainly lean on various law enforcement agencies from the Park Police to ICE and the DC National Guard. Congress not so much and frankly, they needed outside law enforcement/National Guard to stop the rioters from even getting close to the steps of the Capitol. People have to get fired for their failure of imagination. Guess what, angry white folks can riot too...LawBeefaroni wrote:El Guapo wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:38 amYes? That's why heads are going to roll. Presumably the first people in line would be the current head of the Capitol Police, along with people whose primary responsibilities involved deployment of officers and those responsible for security planning on January 6th.LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:20 amAren't the Capitol Police a federal agency that serves and answers directly to Congress? Whose heads are they calling for?El Guapo wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:43 am FWIW the head of House Appropriations (Tim Ryan) has said that "heads will roll" at Capital Police over this.I guess my point is that Congress is where the buck stops for the Capitol.Police. They're getting all indignant about the failure of their reports. A large number of Senators and Representatives were fomenting exactly what happened yet this is on CP brass?Grifman wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:38 amThe chief of the Capitol Police and his top aides. They certainly should roll, they failed horribly at their most basic function. There was no excuse for them not being prepared. There were more police defending the Capitol during the BLM protests and they never talked about going to the Capitol on social media as the Trumpers did. Trump holds a rally on the day of the EC certification within walking distance of the Capitol and you don't think there might be potential problems? Seriously?LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:20 amAren't the Capitol Police a federal agency that serves and answers directly to Congress? Whose heads are they calling for?El Guapo wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:43 am FWIW the head of House Appropriations (Tim Ryan) has said that "heads will roll" at Capital Police over this.
The contrast with BLM is stark but don't forget that Trump called out the FPB troops and who knows who else. The Captiol Police don't have they authority. Congress might. Trump does.
According to what I was just reading, at least one 'protestor' walked off with a senator's laptop.$iljanus wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:39 am On perhaps a paranoid note (but hey it's all free game now) it would be quite the intelligence coup for an unnamed foreign power if some flash drives with backdoor malware happened to find its way onto a computer during the scrum. In a few years when the dust settles such a thing if undiscovered would yield dividends...
She said the loud part.
Oh sure, I'm not putting this all on the Capitol Police by any means. There needs to be accountability for many more and more important people. But that doesn't let the CP off the hook for their failures in that mess.LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:51 amEl Guapo wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:38 amYes? That's why heads are going to roll. Presumably the first people in line would be the current head of the Capitol Police, along with people whose primary responsibilities involved deployment of officers and those responsible for security planning on January 6th.LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:20 amAren't the Capitol Police a federal agency that serves and answers directly to Congress? Whose heads are they calling for?El Guapo wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:43 am FWIW the head of House Appropriations (Tim Ryan) has said that "heads will roll" at Capital Police over this.I guess my point is that Congress is where the buck stops for the Capitol.Police. They're getting all indignant about the failure of their reports. A large number of Senators and Representatives were fomenting exactly what happened yet this is on CP brass?Grifman wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:38 amThe chief of the Capitol Police and his top aides. They certainly should roll, they failed horribly at their most basic function. There was no excuse for them not being prepared. There were more police defending the Capitol during the BLM protests and they never talked about going to the Capitol on social media as the Trumpers did. Trump holds a rally on the day of the EC certification within walking distance of the Capitol and you don't think there might be potential problems? Seriously?LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:20 amAren't the Capitol Police a federal agency that serves and answers directly to Congress? Whose heads are they calling for?El Guapo wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:43 am FWIW the head of House Appropriations (Tim Ryan) has said that "heads will roll" at Capital Police over this.
The contrast with BLM is stark but don't forget that Trump called out the FPB troops and who knows who else. The Captiol Police don't have they authority. Congress might. Trump does.