COVID-19 treatment and vaccine update thread

[dbt1949]

I need a better reason.

[disarm]

Not dying, or ending up permanently disabled?

Good enough motivation that I got my second Moderna vaccine shot today!

[Zaxxon]

I need a better reason.

Also, the fact that while vaccination [today, at the level we're at] isn't sufficient to remove the other precautions, it is necessary if we ever want to get back to 'normal.'

[Blackhawk]

I need a better reason.

Because we are still hurtling down the COVID autobahn at breakneck speed. Masks are our seatbelts. The vaccine is us tapping the brakes to slow down, but we'll still need the seatbelts until we come to a stop.

In other words, the vaccine works, but we're not there until it is so prevalent that the chances of someone spreading it to someone else are incredibly low. Until then we keep the second level of protection up.

[Smoove_B]

I need a better reason.

Everyone is giving great reasons, but I'm going to speak directly to you.

Do you like when people in your extended family have the ability to freely come and go and subsequently leave you alone? A world where we're all vaccinated and wearing masks regardless of vaccination status will get us there faster.

[dbt1949]

Do you like when people in your extended family have the ability to freely come and go

That is my definition of hell.

[Smoove_B]

Well, the idea would be that they'd be able to go and leave you alone.

[hitbyambulance]

Merck abandons two of its vaccine candidates because they kinda sucked:

the company is discontinuing development of its SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 vaccine candidates, V590 and V591, and plans to focus its SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 research strategy and production capabilities on advancing two therapeutic candidates, MK-4482 and MK-7110. This decision follows Merck’s review of findings from Phase 1 clinical studies for the vaccines. In these studies, both V590 and V591 were generally well tolerated, but the immune responses were inferior to those seen following natural infection and those reported for other SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 vaccines.

[Defiant]

A new study from Israel's Sheba Medical Center in Tel Hashomer suggested that the Pfizer vaccine does, in fact, reduce transmission. The small study of 102 medical workers found that after the second dose of the vaccine, 100 of the subjects had significantly higher levels of antibodies than even people who recovered from severe COVID-19 infections, The Jerusalem Post reports.

"The results of the survey are in line with Pfizer's experiment and even better than expected," said Prof. Gili Regev-Yochay, director of Sheba's Infectious Disease Epidemiology Unit. "I expect that the survey results of the other employees participating will be similar. There is certainly reason for optimism." It isn't clear how long immunity will last, and the results are preliminary, but Regev-Yochay said it appears to her that fully vaccinate people won't shed the virus, meaning they won't pass it on to others.

"People who have received both doses of the vaccine have levels of antibodies ranging from six to 59," Regev-Yochay said. "These are high values, and it's encouraging and reasonable to assume that these people will not be carriers or contagious, although that is still not a direct conclusion." Israel is the first country to have vaccinated nearly a quarter of its population, making it a valuable resource for vaccine developers and public health experts.

https://news.yahoo.com/israeli-study-su ... 04894.html

This seems like a very small study, though, and the reduction of transmission doesn't seem to be a direct conclusion of the study (and I'll note that they're just suggesting that it reduces transmission, not that it eliminates the risk).

[El Guapo]

As of tomorrow in Massachusetts people in "phase 2" priority can go online to start scheduling their vaccination appointments. Within phase 2 there are sub-priorities, with people 75+ being the top priority (which includes my parents, which is nice). 'Fortunately' I'm still fat enough to qualify for the lowest priority within tier 2, so I'll see if I can get an appointment as well (though I'm not clear how intra-phase 2 priority works with scheduling appointments, but I guess I'll find out).

[Defiant]

According to a friend in the J&J trial, he's heard that:

The preliminary results from the trial will be released in a few days, and they plan to unblind those in the trial in about a month.

[hitbyambulance]

According to a friend in the J&J trial, he's heard that:

The preliminary results from the trial will be released in a few days, and they plan to unblind those in the trial in about a month.

they did say 'by the end of January' so probably this Friday

[disarm]

I got my second dose of the Moderna vaccine at noon yesterday and it's been an interesting 24 hours. I started getting some pretty significant arm soreness after a couple hours, but nothing too different than the first round. By the time I was heading to bed around 10:00, it was a much different story. I spiked a fever close to 102 and developed the most intense rigors (shaking chills) that I've ever experienced... took some tylenol, curled up under an electric blanket turned up all the way, a down comforter on top of that, and still couldn't stop shaking for almost 90 minutes. It eventually stopped and I tried to get some sleep, but my whole body ached to the point that I couldn't get comfortable to fall asleep...wound up fading in and out for the rest of the night. My fever finally broke around 7am, after a second round of tylenol, and I've been getting progressively better throughout the day. I've felt close to normal since I hit 24-hour post-injection, but the twelve hours from 10pm-10am were pretty rough.

Do I regret getting the vaccine? Not in the slightest, and I will continue to recommend that everyone else get in line as soon as you have the opportunity. I fell in the "lucky" 50% that's have a strong response to the second dose, but it really didn't last long and is a small price to pay for the confidence that I shouldn't have to worry about catching a significant case of COVID now. I will, however, recommend that everyone consider planning a day off from work after the second dose. Luckily, I'm off from work this week anyway and it didn't interfere with life too much.

So that's two adults in my house vaccinated now...two doses of Moderna for me, and two of the Pfizer vaccine for my wife. She was the lucky one...barely felt different at all with her second shot.

[LawBeefaroni]

I got my second dose of the Moderna vaccine at noon yesterday and it's been an interesting 24 hours. I started getting some pretty significant arm soreness after a couple hours, but nothing too different than the first round. By the time I was heading to bed around 10:00, it was a much different story. I spiked a fever close to 102 and developed the most intense rigors (shaking chills) that I've ever experienced... took some tylenol, curled up under an electric blanket turned up all the way, a down comforter on top of that, and still couldn't stop shaking for almost 90 minutes. It eventually stopped and I tried to get some sleep, but my whole body ached to the point that I couldn't get comfortable to fall asleep...wound up fading in and out for the rest of the night. My fever finally broke around 7am, after a second round of tylenol, and I've been getting progressively better throughout the day. I've felt close to normal since I hit 24-hour post-injection, but the twelve hours from 10pm-10am were pretty rough.

Do I regret getting the vaccine? Not in the slightest, and I will continue to recommend that everyone else get in line as soon as you have the opportunity. I fell in the "lucky" 50% that's have a strong response to the second dose, but it really didn't last long and is a small price to pay for the confidence that I shouldn't have to worry about catching a significant case of COVID now. I will, however, recommend that everyone consider planning a day off from work after the second dose. Luckily, I'm off from work this week anyway and it didn't interfere with life too much.

So that's two adults in my house vaccinated now...two doses of Moderna for me, and two of the Pfizer vaccine for my wife. She was the lucky one...barely felt different at all with her second shot.

One of my co-workers got her second Pfizer yesterday, and had the same reaction you did. Sent her home today, she was in bad shape

[YellowKing]

Just anecdotally hearing stories from my co-workers, the ratio of people who had a bad reaction to the second shot vs nothing is about 9:1. Our organization actually scheduled all employee vaccinations on Fri/Sat because so many people were having to take leave after the second shot. I'm planning on taking half a day off and pounding Tylenol.

[malchior]

I just got an email from the State of New Jersey which can be paraphrased as "You are eligible to get a COVID-19 vaccine; good luck finding any".

As someone with insider information, I'm just recently learning how much of a cluster F this entire thing is and the amount of skullduggery that's happening as line-jumpers coordinate the targeting of vaccination slots. Our state should be stepping in and acting as true gate keepers in this process, but instead it has turned into the vaccination equivalent of dealing with ticket scalpers. It's beyond shameful and I continue to be embarrassed for my profession.

So today was a fun day. My wife works in a factory and is in an essential worker group here in NJ - aka 1B. We've been unable to get her an appointment even though both of us are eligible (I'm in 1C which they released as well). She has to go in still so we have working to her the appointment and we'll see for me. She has now seen several of her co-workers get it and its all through weird back channels. One just called her and gave her the secret handshake about how *he* got the vaccine. The best part? He wasn't even in the eligible pool. Cool story. Now we have to see if she can wheedle an appointment through this contact. Are you kidding me? The way this is happening is beyond aggravating. We both registered with the state and get zero information but if you know somebody who knows somebody then you get it.

[Isgrimnur]

Just anecdotally hearing stories from my co-workers, the ratio of people who had a bad reaction to the second shot vs nothing is about 9:1. Our organization actually scheduled all employee vaccinations on Fri/Sat because so many people were having to take leave after the second shot. I'm planning on taking half a day off and pounding Tylenol.

"We much rather you be sick on your own time."

[Isgrimnur]

I just got an email from the State of New Jersey which can be paraphrased as "You are eligible to get a COVID-19 vaccine; good luck finding any".

As someone with insider information, I'm just recently learning how much of a cluster F this entire thing is and the amount of skullduggery that's happening as line-jumpers coordinate the targeting of vaccination slots. Our state should be stepping in and acting as true gate keepers in this process, but instead it has turned into the vaccination equivalent of dealing with ticket scalpers. It's beyond shameful and I continue to be embarrassed for my profession.

So today was a fun day. My wife works in a factory and is in an essential worker group here in NJ - aka 1B. We've been unable to get her an appointment even though both of us are eligible (I'm in 1C which they released as well). She has to go in still so we have working to her the appointment and we'll see for me. She has now seen several of her co-workers get it and its all through weird back channels. One just called her and gave her the secret handshake about how *he* got the vaccine. The best part? He wasn't even in the eligible pool. Cool story. Now we have to see if she can wheedle an appointment through this contact. Are you kidding me? The way this is happening is beyond aggravating. We both registered with the state and get zero information but if you know somebody who knows somebody then you get it.

Back-alley vaccinations. Truth is stranger than fiction.

[malchior]

This is particularly crazy because the factory shares a parking lot with a county vaccination site. Not a NJ megasite but one where you could ostensibly get an appointment. So everyday she sees a line of people getting the vaccine in the parking lot and drives by it. Her factory gets 1-2 positive cases a week but no one there can get an appointment through the official channels. This is so dumb and inefficient.

[hitbyambulance]

J&J Ad26.COV2.S interim results

After the administration of the first vaccine dose in 805 participants in cohorts 1 and 3 and after the second dose in cohort 1, the most frequent solicited adverse events were fatigue, headache, myalgia, and injection-site pain. The most frequent systemic adverse event was fever. Systemic adverse events were less common in cohort 3 than in cohort 1 and in those who received the low vaccine dose than in those who received the high dose. Reactogenicity was lower after the second dose. Neutralizing-antibody titers against wild-type virus were detected in 90% or more of all participants on day 29 after the first vaccine dose (geometric mean titer [GMT], 224 to 354), regardless of vaccine dose or age group, and reached 100% by day 57 with a further increase in titers (GMT, 288 to 488) in cohort 1a. Titers remained stable until at least day 71. A second dose provided an increase in the titer by a factor of 2.6 to 2.9 (GMT, 827 to 1266). Spike-binding antibody responses were similar to neutralizing-antibody responses. On day 14, CD4+ T-cell responses were detected in 76 to 83% of the participants in cohort 1 and in 60 to 67% of those in cohort 3, with a clear skewing toward type 1 helper T cells. CD8+ T-cell responses were robust overall but lower in cohort 3.

Phase III results should be out by Friday

[Ralph-Wiggum]

https://twitter.com/olivernmoody/status ... 60230?s=20

This isn't ideal. The number of participants over 65 category makes those data on the efficacy of the AZ vaccine worthless. In fact, it seems like the number of total participants is pretty low in general. I thought these trials normally had tens of thousands of participants?

[stessier]

J&J Ad26.COV2.S interim results

After the administration of the first vaccine dose in 805 participants in cohorts 1 and 3 and after the second dose in cohort 1, the most frequent solicited adverse events were fatigue, headache, myalgia, and injection-site pain. The most frequent systemic adverse event was fever. Systemic adverse events were less common in cohort 3 than in cohort 1 and in those who received the low vaccine dose than in those who received the high dose. Reactogenicity was lower after the second dose. Neutralizing-antibody titers against wild-type virus were detected in 90% or more of all participants on day 29 after the first vaccine dose (geometric mean titer [GMT], 224 to 354), regardless of vaccine dose or age group, and reached 100% by day 57 with a further increase in titers (GMT, 288 to 488) in cohort 1a. Titers remained stable until at least day 71. A second dose provided an increase in the titer by a factor of 2.6 to 2.9 (GMT, 827 to 1266). Spike-binding antibody responses were similar to neutralizing-antibody responses. On day 14, CD4+ T-cell responses were detected in 76 to 83% of the participants in cohort 1 and in 60 to 67% of those in cohort 3, with a clear skewing toward type 1 helper T cells. CD8+ T-cell responses were robust overall but lower in cohort 3.

Phase III results should be out by Friday

Do you have a link for that?

[Isgrimnur]

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2034201

[Paingod]

I need a better reason.

Okay, so you've got these two goats, right?

The first goat is surly as shit and likes to ram the other one so hard it can't be milked for a day afterwards. You put a leash around the first one, the bastard, and he can't run around lose anymore and slam the other one. But the other, she's not so bright. She keeps wandering into the range of the bastard and getting slammed. You finally figure out that you need to just separate them and build a little wall, but the surly one still likes to head-butt you as hard as he can when you go in to feed him, so you leave the leash on. Now you've got the bastard all locked up in a pen by himself and he can't hurt you or your milking goat.

[Isgrimnur]

https://twitter.com/panoparker/status/1 ... 4566575105

[Max Peck]

So... Horn noodles for baby goats is a metaphor for how we wear masks to avoid hurting each other?

[hitbyambulance]

J&J Ad26.COV2.S interim results

After the administration of the first vaccine dose in 805 participants in cohorts 1 and 3 and after the second dose in cohort 1, the most frequent solicited adverse events were fatigue, headache, myalgia, and injection-site pain. The most frequent systemic adverse event was fever. Systemic adverse events were less common in cohort 3 than in cohort 1 and in those who received the low vaccine dose than in those who received the high dose. Reactogenicity was lower after the second dose. Neutralizing-antibody titers against wild-type virus were detected in 90% or more of all participants on day 29 after the first vaccine dose (geometric mean titer [GMT], 224 to 354), regardless of vaccine dose or age group, and reached 100% by day 57 with a further increase in titers (GMT, 288 to 488) in cohort 1a. Titers remained stable until at least day 71. A second dose provided an increase in the titer by a factor of 2.6 to 2.9 (GMT, 827 to 1266). Spike-binding antibody responses were similar to neutralizing-antibody responses. On day 14, CD4+ T-cell responses were detected in 76 to 83% of the participants in cohort 1 and in 60 to 67% of those in cohort 3, with a clear skewing toward type 1 helper T cells. CD8+ T-cell responses were robust overall but lower in cohort 3.

Phase III results should be out by Friday

Do you have a link for that?

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2034201

[hitbyambulance]

Imperial College London/Morningside's saRNA vaccine is not going to proceed with Phase III trials - the group will now concentrate on developing vaccine (possibly boosters) for mutating SARS-CoV-2 variants

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/213313/ ... mutations/

[hitbyambulance]

J&J Ad26.COV2.S interim results

After the administration of the first vaccine dose in 805 participants in cohorts 1 and 3 and after the second dose in cohort 1, the most frequent solicited adverse events were fatigue, headache, myalgia, and injection-site pain. The most frequent systemic adverse event was fever. Systemic adverse events were less common in cohort 3 than in cohort 1 and in those who received the low vaccine dose than in those who received the high dose. Reactogenicity was lower after the second dose. Neutralizing-antibody titers against wild-type virus were detected in 90% or more of all participants on day 29 after the first vaccine dose (geometric mean titer [GMT], 224 to 354), regardless of vaccine dose or age group, and reached 100% by day 57 with a further increase in titers (GMT, 288 to 488) in cohort 1a. Titers remained stable until at least day 71. A second dose provided an increase in the titer by a factor of 2.6 to 2.9 (GMT, 827 to 1266). Spike-binding antibody responses were similar to neutralizing-antibody responses. On day 14, CD4+ T-cell responses were detected in 76 to 83% of the participants in cohort 1 and in 60 to 67% of those in cohort 3, with a clear skewing toward type 1 helper T cells. CD8+ T-cell responses were robust overall but lower in cohort 3.

Phase III results should be out by Friday

Do you have a link for that?

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2034201

result data is now delayed to next week - so not in January at all.

[hitbyambulance]

Interim Novavax results:

The biotech company Novavax says its COVID-19 vaccine is 89% effective at preventing the illness, according to an interim analysis of a large study conducted in the U.K.

The results come from a clinical trial involving more than 15,000 volunteers, of whom more than a quarter were older than 65.

The company says 62 cases of COVID-19 were seen in the study. Fifty-six occurred in the group that got placebo; six were seen in people who received the vaccine.
Health

The Novavax vaccine is what's called a protein subunit vaccine, a different kind of vaccine technology that is used in the shots made by Pfizer and Moderna that are being rolled out in this country. The Novavax vaccine is given in two doses spaced 21 days apart.

Novavax says in a news release that its vaccine is slightly less effective against the new variant of the coronavirus that's been circulating in the U.K. — about 86%. Against the original COVID-19 strain, the vaccine is about 96% effective, the company says.

In a separate, smaller study in South Africa, the vaccine was still somewhat effective at preventing COVID disease — 49% overall — a level far lower than in the larger U.K. study. But there is a wide range of uncertainty around exactly how much lower the effectiveness is.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronaviru ... uth-africa

[dbt1949]

Is 89% effective good enough? 1 in 10 having problems?

[wonderpug]

Is 89% effective good enough? 1 in 10 having problems?

Remember that it's not just about protecting each and every person from the disease directly. If enough people get covered by the 89% effectiveness, the 11% are going to be protected as well just because the disease isn't bouncing around as much.

[Kraken]

What wonderpug said. In the early stages of vaccine development, Fauci said anything over 60% would be good. That's better than the flu vaccine most years.

[Defiant]

A single-shot coronavirus vaccine from pharmaceutical giant Johnson & Johnson was 66 percent effective at preventing moderate and severe illness in a massive global trial, findings released Friday show. But its performance was stronger in the United States and weaker in South Africa, where a worrisome coronavirus variant now dominates — a complicated result that reflects the evolution of the pandemic.

The vaccine was 72 percent effective at protecting against moderate to severe illness in the United States, but it was 66 percent effective in Latin America and 57 percent effective in South Africa, where concerning variants have taken root. It was 85 percent effective overall at preventing severe disease.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... d-johnson/

[Malificent]

I got my second dose of the Moderna vaccine at noon yesterday and it's been an interesting 24 hours. I started getting some pretty significant arm soreness after a couple hours, but nothing too different than the first round. By the time I was heading to bed around 10:00, it was a much different story. I spiked a fever close to 102 and developed the most intense rigors (shaking chills) that I've ever experienced... took some tylenol, curled up under an electric blanket turned up all the way, a down comforter on top of that, and still couldn't stop shaking for almost 90 minutes. It eventually stopped and I tried to get some sleep, but my whole body ached to the point that I couldn't get comfortable to fall asleep...wound up fading in and out for the rest of the night. My fever finally broke around 7am, after a second round of tylenol, and I've been getting progressively better throughout the day. I've felt close to normal since I hit 24-hour post-injection, but the twelve hours from 10pm-10am were pretty rough.

Oddly enough, this sounds exactly the occasional side effect I get from taking my interferon drug for MS. Only happens every 4-5 months but I take it at night to make sure if I get that side effect it won't cripple me during the day.

Guess this means I'm prepped to get my vaccine!

[Blackhawk]

Is 89% effective good enough? 1 in 10 having problems?

The one in ten won't have problems, because the one in ten will be in a room with nine people who can't get it, and therefore can't spread it. It's kind of like that video that someone made. Take a few hundred matches, bundle them all together and then light one.. They all go up. Now soak 9 out of 10 with water. None will go up, because the fire can't get to the 1 in 10 that's dry.

[Max Peck]

Another significant factor is that the J&J vaccine seems to result in milder symptoms even when it doesn't prevent COVID-19 outright.

One-dose shot offers good protection, new hope against virus

These are preliminary findings from a study of 44,000 volunteers that isn’t completed yet. Researchers tracked illnesses starting 28 days after vaccination – about the time when, if participants were getting a two-dose variety instead, they would have needed another shot.

After day 28, no one who got vaccinated needed hospitalization or died regardless of whether they were exposed to “regular COVID or these particularly nasty variants,” Mammen said. When the vaccinated did become infected, they had a milder illness.

Even if the J&J vaccine isn't as effective in preventing COVID-19 as the 2-dose mRNA vaccines, it seems like it is extremely effective at preventing hospitalization and death from the disease, including the more infectious and possibly more virulent strains.

[Lorini]

Another significant factor is that the J&J vaccine seems to result in milder symptoms even when it doesn't prevent COVID-19 outright.

One-dose shot offers good protection, new hope against virus

These are preliminary findings from a study of 44,000 volunteers that isn’t completed yet. Researchers tracked illnesses starting 28 days after vaccination – about the time when, if participants were getting a two-dose variety instead, they would have needed another shot.

After day 28, no one who got vaccinated needed hospitalization or died regardless of whether they were exposed to “regular COVID or these particularly nasty variants,” Mammen said. When the vaccinated did become infected, they had a milder illness.

Even if the J&J vaccine isn't as effective in preventing COVID-19 as the 2-dose mRNA vaccines, it seems like it is extremely effective at preventing hospitalization and death from the disease, including the more infectious and possibly more virulent strains.

Isn't that similar to the flu vaccine?

[Daehawk]

sn't that similar to the flu vaccine?

Depends on the year. Sometimes the flu vaccine is better..sometimes worse.

CDC Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, the current influenza vaccine has been 45% effective overall against 2019-2020 seasonal influenza A and B viruses. Specifically, the flu vaccine has been 50% effective against influenza B/Victoria viruses and 37% effective against influenza A(H1N1)pdm09

[Max Peck]

Another significant factor is that the J&J vaccine seems to result in milder symptoms even when it doesn't prevent COVID-19 outright.

One-dose shot offers good protection, new hope against virus

These are preliminary findings from a study of 44,000 volunteers that isn’t completed yet. Researchers tracked illnesses starting 28 days after vaccination – about the time when, if participants were getting a two-dose variety instead, they would have needed another shot.

After day 28, no one who got vaccinated needed hospitalization or died regardless of whether they were exposed to “regular COVID or these particularly nasty variants,” Mammen said. When the vaccinated did become infected, they had a milder illness.

Even if the J&J vaccine isn't as effective in preventing COVID-19 as the 2-dose mRNA vaccines, it seems like it is extremely effective at preventing hospitalization and death from the disease, including the more infectious and possibly more virulent strains.

Isn't that similar to the flu vaccine?

The take-away for me isn't so much the middling efficacy of the vaccine in terms of preventing COVID-19, it is that the vaccine apparently was 100% successful in preventing hospitalization and death in the trial participants that did contract COVID-19. While there is obviously still concern about long-term effects from less severe COVID-19, keeping people alive and out of the hospital seems like a win to me.