The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:29 am

Nah, it's pretty easy really. Whenever Jeff says something really outrageous, just assume it's part of his curmudgeonly shtick. You'll be right 9 times out of 10.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:45 am

ImLawBoy wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:29 am Nah, it's pretty easy really. Whenever Jeff says something really outrageous, just assume it's part of his curmudgeonly shtick. You'll be right 9 times out of 10.

Of course, the tenth time you wind up with a busted schnoz.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:52 pm

Lorini wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:32 pm
Exodor wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:29 pm
Skinypupy wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:08 pm Think about how many thousands of (10's of thousands? hundreds of thousands?) lives could have been saved if someone had simply told Trump at the onset that selling MAGA masks would be a huge money maker.

It's somewhat infuriating to consider, really.
I wish mask-wearing protected the wearer instead of those around the wearer. Remember the early days of the pandemic when masks were in short supply because they were thought to provide protection? I think the mask "debate" just exposes how incredibly selfish many Americans can be.
They do but anti maskers convince themselves of all kinds of bullshit to justify not wearing a mask. I'm sure a lot of them have been sickened and have died because of their insistence but some would call it evolution in action.

I think a good analogy for not wearing a mask is drunk driving. Sure, you can get into an accident while sober, but the risk is FAR higher when under the influence.

Also, the drunk thinks they are ok to drive, and in a lot of cases they will be able to get home safely, but they are a significantly greater risk to themselves, everyone in their car and everyone in their vicinity, and that risk is lethal. The drunk may not even know they caused an accident by someone else too.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:30 pm

Pyperkub wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:52 pm
Lorini wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:32 pm
Exodor wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:29 pm
Skinypupy wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:08 pm Think about how many thousands of (10's of thousands? hundreds of thousands?) lives could have been saved if someone had simply told Trump at the onset that selling MAGA masks would be a huge money maker.

It's somewhat infuriating to consider, really.
I wish mask-wearing protected the wearer instead of those around the wearer. Remember the early days of the pandemic when masks were in short supply because they were thought to provide protection? I think the mask "debate" just exposes how incredibly selfish many Americans can be.
They do but anti maskers convince themselves of all kinds of bullshit to justify not wearing a mask. I'm sure a lot of them have been sickened and have died because of their insistence but some would call it evolution in action.
I think a good analogy for not wearing a mask is drunk driving. Sure, you can get into an accident while sober, but the risk is FAR higher when under the influence.

Also, the drunk thinks they are ok to drive, and in a lot of cases they will be able to get home safely, but they are a significantly greater risk to themselves, everyone in their car and everyone in their vicinity, and that risk is lethal. The drunk may not even know they caused an accident by someone else too.

I might even tweak the analogy to be about driving on the right side of the road. Sure, it's mildly inconvenient for an individual to only drive on one side, but if we all agree to do it together then there's gonna be a lot fewer deaths.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:11 pm

KGW

Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler pepper-sprayed a man who got in his face without a mask on, according to a police report obtained by KGW.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:51 pm

I'm not saying he was right, but I understand.

Vaccine production news:

https://twitter.com/TinaSfon/status/1354162982058676225

In a call currently happening with governors across the country, Biden administration officials say they are increasing vaccine supply across the board 16% – from 8.6 million to 10 million. That's supposed to happen within weeks.

In a follow up question, "they" is clarified to mean vaccine producers.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:59 pm

Biden speaking, says he hopes they'll soon secure 100M more Pfizer doses and 100M more Moderna doses by summer. (moving it from 400M doses total ordered to 600M)

More:
Also working to put vaccines in thousands (or was it 10s of thousands?) of local pharmacies (and it should be available starting in feb?)

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:37 pm

https://twitter.com/AnjKhem/status/1354468403382247430

Slavitt: Any stockpile that may have existed, no longer exists. Practice is to have rolling inventory of 2-3 days of supply.

"But we are passing doses directly along to states...as soon as they have ordered them."

I'm waiting to get a write up, but my take from this now is that we've moved from shuffling a stockpile to a "just in time" delivery model for vaccines. That worked great for toilet paper, so I guess we can hope it will go better for vaccines.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:44 pm

One thing Biden, I think, said yesterday was that they're working to extend the time states are informed to expect new vaccines to three weeks, but it sounds like that might be harder to pull off.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:45 pm

Good to see some Republican politicians are finally coming around to the idea of protecting someone's right to choose when considering personal health matters:

State Senator Joey Hensley (R-Hohenwald) filed a bill for introduction that would amend certain aspects of the Tennessee Code relative to discrimination. Senate Bill 320 would expand the Code’s provisions to prevent businesses from denying services to individuals who don’t wear or use a certain medical device, or if they haven’t received a certain medical treatment. It would also prevent local government entities from enforcing individual compliance with those medical devices or treatments.

To quote the TN State Senator:

“I am sponsoring this bill on behalf of concerned constituents who do not want to be discriminated against if they choose not to wear a mask or receive the vaccine. This bill does not say people shouldn’t wear a mask or take the vaccine,” stated Hensley. “I would encourage anyone who is comfortable wearing a mask or getting the vaccine to do so. This legislation would merely allow people who have deeply-held objections to masks or vaccines the ability to opt-out. Businesses already cannot discriminate based on many factors such as race, religion, sex, and other medical conditions. This just adds medical device usage and medical treatment to that list.”

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:12 pm

Just what sort of 'deeply held objections' can people have to masks? Not joining the army I get. Not supporting sexual 'things' (orientation, birth control, etc) I get - I deeply disagree with and don't think it's cause to discriminate, but at least I can see the basis of the objection. Seriously, I'd like to sit down and have a theological debate with these objectors.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:14 pm

Cuz "meh Freedum!"

Clearly, they're all nudists at heart.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:16 pm

"Deeply held" is typically code for "religious". In other words, they're trying to suggest - like they do for vaccinations - that there is a route to object under religious belief to wearing a mask.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:29 pm

Blackhawk wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:12 pm Just what sort of 'deeply held objections' can people have to masks? Not joining the army I get. Not supporting sexual 'things' (orientation, birth control, etc) I get - I deeply disagree with and don't think it's cause to discriminate, but at least I can see the basis of the objection. Seriously, I'd like to sit down and have a theological debate with these objectors.

They deeply hold an objection to anything deemed to be a liberal idea. If today Fox News had a story on how much liberals think seatbelts are important, you can guarantee that by the end of today you'd have a bunch of Republicans cutting them out of their cars.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:31 pm

https://www.businessinsider.com/when-am ... lts-2020-5

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:31 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:16 pm "Deeply held" is typically code for "religious". In other words, they're trying to suggest - like they do for vaccinations - that there is a route to object under religious belief to wearing a mask.

"Deeply held" is typically code for "cult-like". FTFY!

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:03 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:31 pm https://www.businessinsider.com/when-am ... lts-2020-5

I was telling a friend of mine that as well, it's the exact same thing in many ways. Fortunately seat belts are now accepted, at least where I live.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:16 pm

As an example of the Fox News propaganda hate machine, some conservative friends of ours posted a clip on Facebook of a lady on Fox News talking about "theybies" and how "liberals" were pushing back against assigning gender at birth. It was obviously an extremist position portrayed by Fox as mainstream.

I just shake my head at how these folks can't tell how they're being manipulated to hate a group of people in order to keep another group of people in power.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:23 pm

Lorini wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:03 pm
Isgrimnur wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:31 pm https://www.businessinsider.com/when-am ... lts-2020-5
I was telling a friend of mine that as well, it's the exact same thing in many ways. Fortunately seat belts are now accepted, at least where I live.

I think just about everyone wears seat belts these days, but I remember when I was a kid my best friend's dad actually cut the buckle off of the seat belt strap and plugged it into connector just so he wouldn't hear the bell or see the light reminding him to put his seat belt on.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:45 pm

Yes, please.

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1354921969746108417

The Pentagon is considering sending active duty troops to large-scale, federally run coronavirus vaccine centers, the first significant sign that the Biden administration is moving to take more control of a program that states are struggling to manage.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:18 am

This is what helps me sleep at night. Even though we're not where we need to be, we at least now have the people in power that know and care about where we need to be.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:09 pm

Apparently the LAPD are powerless against a crowd of mostly white anti-vaxxers. Tbh it was more an oddity. 30 people show up, the cops shut down everything until reinforcements arrive, and the antivaxxers never even blocked anything.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Mikel_Jollet ... 1297785856

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:13 pm

That's just wrong. They are not entitled to stop others from getting vaccinated, I hope they get arrested.

You know this reminds me of something I read this morning. I subscribe to the LA Times political newsletter, written by one of the opinion writers for the Times. He was saying that when he reprinted some letters to the Times from Trump supporters, progressives/liberal were mad. But his normal opinion pieces are liberal leaning, and he gets death threats for those.

There is no 'all sides' here and it should be against the law to stop someone from getting a medical procedure.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:36 pm

I don't even know what to say about that vaccination protest story; I'm actually speechless.

In related news, it's becoming more and more apparent the free-for-all way in which vaccinations are being offered is of course favoring certain groups over others:

A Covid-19 vaccination site in a Latino neighborhood in New York City hard hit by the pandemic saw an overwhelming number of White people from outside the community show up to get the shot this month, city leaders say, laying bare a national disparity that shows people of color are being vaccinated at dramatically lower rates.

Lawmakers who represent Washington Heights and a doctor who staffed the site last week said the first wave of vaccinations went to many White New Yorkers over 65 who traveled to the Armory from other parts of the city and state.

Mayor Bill de Blasio on Friday called it "outrageous."
"The more I learn about this, the angrier I get," de Blasio said during a virtual press briefing. "Somehow instead of focusing on the Latino community of Washington Heights, a place that really was hit hard by Covid, instead the approach was somehow conducive to folks from outside the community coming and getting vaccinated but not folks who live right there in Washington Heights. Totally backwards."

I am surprised they're surprised. In the same way the overwhelming majority of senior citizens in the state of NJ aren't vaccinated yet because they don't have the ability to easily and quickly snatch up online registration slots. I would genuinely love to sit down with someone (anyone) at the state level and ask they how on earth they expected the elder population to somehow navigate the COVID registration process. For reference, the state launched a phone line earlier this week - three weeks into the vaccination process.

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:39 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:36 pm
I am surprised they're surprised. In the same way the overwhelming majority of senior citizens in the state of NJ aren't vaccinated yet because they don't have the ability to easily and quickly snatch up online registration slots. I would genuinely love to sit down with someone (anyone) at the state level and ask they how on earth they expected the elder population to somehow navigate the COVID registration process.

this is the sort of thing that happens with a technocratic mindset...

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:47 pm

An anti-vax protest shut down a WA hospital also-

https://www.koin.com/local/clark-county ... n-protest/

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:50 pm

https://twitter.com/SvenAntifaCat/statu ... 0639106048

Someone in LA died every 6 minutes and 18 seconds today from COVID.

The working class is being sacrificed for dinner.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:53 pm

hitbyambulance wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:39 pmthis is the sort of thing that happens with a technocratic mindset...

You might actually enjoy this article:

Her frustration is echoed by millions of Americans who have struggled to get vaccines through various chaotic systems. But unlike others in some states, she wasn’t encountering these problems with a third-party consumer service like Eventbrite, or even through an antiquated government system. She was on the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s brand-new, $44 million website called VAMS—the Vaccine Administration Management System, built by the consulting firm Deloitte.

Unless you’re in one of the few states using it, you may not have heard of VAMS. But it was supposed to be a one-stop shop where employers, state officials, clinics, and individuals could manage scheduling, inventory, and reporting for covid shots—and free for anyone to use.

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:07 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:53 pm
built by the consulting firm Deloitte.

and here we have located the problem

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:24 pm

Well known for their software design practice. [/sarcasm]

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:26 pm

Yeah, i figured all the tech/software people might find interest here.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:20 pm

hitbyambulance wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:39 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:36 pm
I am surprised they're surprised. In the same way the overwhelming majority of senior citizens in the state of NJ aren't vaccinated yet because they don't have the ability to easily and quickly snatch up online registration slots. I would genuinely love to sit down with someone (anyone) at the state level and ask they how on earth they expected the elder population to somehow navigate the COVID registration process.
this is the sort of thing that happens with a technocratic mindset...

The same criticism applies in MA. The state set up a website where one answers some questions to determine eligibility. If one passes, it displays a map showing vaccination sites. One then clicks on the site that's most convenient, tries to book an appointment, finds out there aren't any, and gets kicked back out to the map. Repeat until frustration wins. That's annoying even for a savvy web user, never mind a septuagenarian.

So the state's setting up a phone line now using a callback model. Maybe that's better; most old people do still answer phone calls.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:01 pm

I'm sure the Deloitte contract was on the level. It's not like there were any whistle-blower complaints about the "outsized influence of industry consultants" in the awarding of hinky contracts.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:22 am

https://mobile.twitter.com/ellenem12/st ... 2158030853

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:31 am

Yeah a lot of people are going to ask what basis did the LAFD have for closing down the stadium parking lot.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:22 am

Smoove_B wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:50 pm https://twitter.com/SvenAntifaCat/statu ... 0639106048

Someone in LA died every 6 minutes and 18 seconds today from COVID.

The working class is being sacrificed for dinner.

Went to get carry out yesterday and the bar next door was open for [indoor] business.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:14 pm

If quick takeout transactions don't count, I haven't eaten at a restaurant since March 2020.

I won't go to one again before I'm certain that the vaccine program has produced herd immunity.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:35 pm

If the government is not going to pay people to stay home, then I don't fault working class people for going to work. And if the government is going to allow restaurants and bars to remain open, I'm not going to fault people for doing business there.

Let's put the blame where it belongs - massive failures at the government level to give people the options to do the right thing.

This whole business of shaming people for patronizing a business that is open has to go. If you want to shame them for not wearing a mask, not social distancing, etc. that's fine. But if they're following the rules of a business that is open according to state guidelines, let's shift the blame to the state, not the customer.

(Note not directing this towards anyone on this forum, just thoughts in general).

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:49 pm

Who are elected by the people.

Something something government they deserve.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:10 pm

Yeah, that's really the issue here. The politicians (local, county, state, federal) aren't acting to look out for the best interests of the people that they serve. They're bowing to pressure and making decisions that might be easier or serve specific interests. In most cases, they're bowing to the lunatics screaming freedom above all. Lets not pretend they're looking out for the average American and certainly not the people working in restaurants.